Transsexual Jesus

[SherriBerry]

Sometimes people think they're being clever while they're giggling at their own little inside jokes, like when somebody goes "Ya know...water is only one ingredient away from concrete, right?"

I got the joke - Chicagoans take their pizza as seriously as Quebecers take their poutine (french fries topped with gravy and cheese curds). But this seems to be a thread about faith and I believe a pizza without cheese would suck!

Kweebeckers?

I believe Nutter Butters without the creme filling* would suck!

*Please, no jokes...

Yup, Quebecers! It's the only group of Canadians I'm aware of that have such a strong affinity for a food item and that's a huge province. In the US, you have specific cities. There was one thread about the ketchup/no-ketchup debate on a hotdog in Chicago. Hmm...maybe it's just Chicago. All I know is that right now I'm hungry and could go for a pizza!

BTW, what is a Nutter Butter? Is that a cookie?

[StoneCold]

It's evident from this thread that the one thing we all have in common is that we are searching for answers and doing the best we can.

How is it that after thousands of years of inhabiting the earth, countless wars and crime man hasn't devised a method to impart to each generation knowledge to prevent more of the same?

Every few days we hear of another host of horrors. Makes me think there just might be something to the concept of "evil".

The only line I draw is if people of any faith or ideology try to force their beliefs on me or others under the threat of violence.

Every society imposes its beliefs on its citizens. They're called laws and punishment. Some don't even wait for the law. Get cut off in traffic or steal that last parking space? Watch out, belief enforcement under threat of violence in action.

I don't believe there is a specific path anyone must follow - it's the journey in life and what you learn and experience that matters.

Sounds great on paper doesn't it? Hitler, Ted Bundy, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Ghengis Khan and Alexander the Great would all agree before they snuffed you out. Thank your "lucky stars" you aren't within grasp of their ilk.

[Lula]

faith and belief are personal. i don't knock those that have it or those that do not. i'm not asking for tangible proof that God exists, tho i believe God does exist by the sheer beauty that surrounds me. if i did not have faith and believe in all that silly stuff, i would never have learned to cope with the profound loss i have experienced. it's just personal to me. i don't belong to a church and i don't practice a particular religion, tho i was raised catholic. i have attended a few services at a presbyterian offshoot here in west los angeles and have enjoyed it. we gain strength from various places/things and have our own philosophies. i basically practice living by the golden rule- do unto others.......

[SherriBerry]

It's evident from this thread that the one thing we all have in common is that we are searching for answers and doing the best we can.

How is it that after thousands of years of inhabiting the earth, countless wars and crime man hasn't devised a method to impart to each generation knowledge to prevent more of the same?

Every few days we hear of another host of horrors. Makes me think there just might be something to the concept of "evil".

I was referring to the people here on MR. Unfortunately there are those in the world whose greed, thirst for power, lack of humanity, etc. override any other consideration.

The only line I draw is if people of any faith or ideology try to force their beliefs on me or others under the threat of violence.

Every society imposes its beliefs on its citizens. They're called laws and punishment. Some don't even wait for the law. Get cut off in traffic or steal that last parking space? Watch out, belief enforcement under threat of violence in action.

Laws are a collective agreement by society to construct a system in which people can function as a group. As society changes, so do the laws and the punishments which is why you don't see public hangings for stealing cars. Equating a malevolent force trying to impose religious doctrine with some jerk overreacting for losing a parking space does not make sense.

I don't believe there is a specific path anyone must follow - it's the journey in life and what you learn and experience that matters.

Sounds great on paper doesn't it? Hitler, Ted Bundy, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Ghengis Khan and Alexander the Great would all agree before they snuffed you out. Thank your "lucky stars" you aren't within grasp of their ilk.

What is your problem? I meant that I am not arrogant enough to presume that there is only one religion or doctrine that is "right" and that if people do not follow that faith they are wrong. There are many paths in life. Hitler and his ilk were murderers and psychopaths and I can deal with their ilk quite well - if they come knocking at my door I am well prepared to fight for my freedom. How about you?

[StoneCold]

Equating a malevolent force trying to impose religious doctrine with some jerk overreacting for losing a parking space does not make sense.

Sure it does 'cause the jerk overreacting believes in something (or nothing) which guides his reactions to the world. I'm just giving an everyday scenario 'cause that's what we experience.

I don't believe there is a specific path anyone must follow - it's the journey in life and what you learn and experience that matters.

Sounds great on paper doesn't it? Hitler, Ted Bundy, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Ghengis Khan and Alexander the Great would all agree before they snuffed you out. Thank your "lucky stars" you aren't within grasp of their ilk.

What is your problem? I meant that I am not arrogant enough to presume that there is only one religion or doctrine that is "right" and that if people do not follow that faith they are wrong. There are many paths in life. Hitler and his ilk were murderers and psychopaths and I can deal with their ilk quite well - if they come knocking at my door I am well prepared to fight for my freedom. How about you?

You said there's no specific path for anyone. Who's to say these dictators and criminals aren't more enlightened than anyone else? For you to label them means you do have a belief system from which you judge them as lacking. Sure, you'll say the laws in your area. Ever wonder where those came from? Why accept and agree with them?

I'm not espousing one religion or doctrine either but to make a blanket statement "we are searching for answers and doing the best we can" is a little too Dr. Feelgoodish. You as well as I know not everyone is searching for answers (not in this thread or anywhere else).

Sorry if I'm coming off blunt. We have our opinions and perhaps I'm being too direct with mine.

[SherriBerry]

You said there's no specific path for anyone. Who's to say these dictators and criminals aren't more enlightened than anyone else? For you to label them means you do have a belief system from which you judge them as lacking. Sure, you'll say the laws in your area. Ever wonder where those came from? Why accept and agree with them?

"Enlightened" means to provide with spiritual or intellectual understanding - those dictators and criminals do not operate from a spritual or intellectual perspective, but rather from the lowest motivations of humanity - at least in my belief system. I never claimed I do not have a belief system of my own. I simply choose not to impose it on others or judge them if they do not agree with it. There is a difference between judging another's belief system and judging their actions upon others. If someone wants to believe in Holy Wars, that is their right. If they choose to violate another's basic rights and kill in the name of that belief, that is an overt action I will respond to - what a person believes and what they do are not the same thing.

I do know where laws come from and I don't agree with all of them - that's why I choose to vote for those representatives who will change them. I didn't agree with Canada's long gun registry and the billions wasted to create it, so I voted for a party that promised to repeal it - and they have. In any game there are rules - if I don't like the rules, I can play a different game. If I don't like the laws I can fight to change them or relocate to a place where those laws are not imposed upon me. There are benefits, however, to living within a society and one has to weigh those benefits versus the responsibilities of being a member. I am happy to work within the system to affect change and I wouldn't give up my Canadian citizenship for a billion dollars.

I'm not espousing one religion or doctrine either but to make a blanket statement "we are searching for answers and doing the best we can" is a little too Dr. Feelgoodish. You as well as I know not everyone is searching for answers (not in this thread or anywhere else).

I do not believe that humankind's search to explain Creation and the wonders of the universe is Dr. Feelgoodish and I do believe that the posters in this thread are good people doing the best they can to live their lives. They may not all be searching as hard as they could be, but life has a way of bringing lessons to you and answering questions sometimes before you ask them. I'm well aware of the atrocities of humanity that continue today and believe in the existence of evil. You are right that there are those who are not searching for answers, but I wasn't referring to them. There is a difference in respecting another's right to an opinion and a belief system and allowing those people to commit crimes in the name of their belief system.

I don't believe you are being overly blunt, but if you think that I don't have a belief system of my own, then you missed a few things in what I wrote. I hope I have clarified and I do believe that we agree on a great deal.

[StoneCold]

SherryBerry, don't think there's much more for us to debate. We've expounded on our original statements so I'll leave it at that.

Let's just agree that Shania Twain is (was?) a hottie! MMMkay?!

[SherriBerry]

SherryBerry, don't think there's much more for us to debate. We've expounded on our original statements so I'll leave it at that.

Let's just agree that Shania Twain is (was?) a hottie! MMMkay?!

Would it be a blanket statement to say I believe everyone thinks Shania Twain is a hottie?

[fredinator]

Even Mother Teresa had deep doubts: "Mother Teresa, the late Roman Catholic nun whose aid for the poor put her on the path to sainthood, at times felt abandoned by God, according to her recently released letters.

The letters, written by Mother Teresa in the 1950s and 1960s to her church spiritual guides, also reveal the troubling and, at times, painful conflicts she sometimes had with her faith.

"I am told God lives in me -- and yet the reality of darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul," she wrote in one of the letters."The letters' release comes days after the archbishop of Kolkata, the city formerly known as Calcutta, said church officials performed an exorcism on Mother Teresa at a hospital later in her life. This act and the letters showed Mother Teresa was "both holy and human," making her even more special, Archbishop Henry D'Souza said.

The nun's letters were largely forgotten until two years ago, when the Vatican began gathering paperwork on Mother Teresa -- including all her confessional letters -- for sainthood proceedings. The correspondences were sent from India to Rome, with some being published in the "Journal of Theological Reflection."

Some of the letters depict a spiritually bereft Mother Teresa, struggling to maintain her belief.

"Where I try to raise my thoughts to heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul. Love -- the word -- it brings nothing," wrote the woman known the world over as the "Messiah of Love."

In another letter, Mother Teresa wrote, "In my soul, I can't tell you how dark it is, how painful, how terrible -- I feel like refusing God."

Church officials said the letters strengthen Mother Teresa's case for sainthood -- the struggle with her own spirituality and purpose showing her humanity.

"You can't be a saint without having suffered," said the Rev. Edward de Joly, who once served as spiritual adviser to sisters in the Missionaries of Charity, the Kolkata-based humanitarian order founded by Mother Teresa in 1950.

"This is part of the spiritual life of people, and God sometimes wants to unite the soul very closely to himself," added Sister Nirmala, head of Missionaries of Charity and one of the late nun's closest confidantes. "He will allow them to feel abandoned by him. And Jesus also on the cross felt he was abandoned."

The Missionaries of Charity feeds 500,000 families, treats 90,000 leprosy patients and educates 2,000 children each year in Kolkata alone. Mother Teresa's work on behalf of the poor in India and around the world earned her a Nobel Peace Prize in 1979."

I felt the bolded part is pretty comforting actually. (This is a CNN online article from 2001.)

[StoneCold]

"This is part of the spiritual life of people, and God sometimes wants to unite the soul very closely to himself," added Sister Nirmala, head of Missionaries of Charity and one of the late nun's closest confidantes.

"He will allow them to feel abandoned by him. And Jesus also on the cross felt he was abandoned."

Luke 23:34 - Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

Luke 23:39 - One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

Luke 23:40-43 - But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

Then he said to Jesus: "Remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Mark 15:33 - At the sixth hour darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Matthew 27:46 - And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying,

“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Luke 23:46 - Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Matthew 27:51-52 - At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

* The Centurion - "Surely he was the Son of God!"
(Matthew 27:54; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:47)

* The Soldiers Break the Thieves' Legs
(John 19:31-33)

* The Soldier Pierces Jesus Side
(John 19:34)

* Jesus is Laid in the Tomb
(Matthew 27:57-61; Mark 15:42-47; Luke 23:50-56; John 19:38-42)

* Jesus Rises from the Dead
(Matthew 28:1-7; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:1-12; John 20:1-9)

[MrsPerry]

i can see this going another 10 pages.