President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:27 am

7 Wishes wrote:Your ignorance is unbelievable. Every decent President since Hoover has engaged in respectful diplomacy. Even W managed to hold hands with the Prince of Saudi Arabia. Had he not, he would have been perceived as disrespectful, which would have been in addition to the rest of the world's belief that W was incompetent and a warmonger.

Obama's behavior is a bit much, but the Right acts as if each passing bow depletes our nuclear arsenal or something.
You'd have to be a certified political dumbass to believe that a gesture threatens our status as a superpower.
Nixon bought Brezhnev a cadillac and Pappy Bush tossed cookies in the Japanese PM's lap, and last I checked, the world didn't spiral off its axis.
We just came off eight years of tried-and-failed "FUCK YOU" cowboy diplomacy.
If Obama wants to try a different "speak softly" approach, I say let him.
And if it fails, we'll try something else.
Big deal.
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Postby separate_wayz » Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:37 am

7 Wishes wrote:Your ignorance is unbelievable. Every decent President since Hoover has engaged in respectful diplomacy. Even W managed to hold hands with the Prince of Saudi Arabia. Had he not, he would have been perceived as disrespectful, which would have been in addition to the rest of the world's belief that W was incompetent and a warmonger.



Ehhhh, shaddup.

Obama's (literal) kowtowing is not getting him anywhere with foreign powers, especially the hostile ones. His groveling in Egypt earned America only contempt and a bunch of I-told-you-so's from Islamacist crazies and U.S.-bashers. His wink-and-a-nod to the Russians over Poland and the Czech Republic has only resulted in the enmity and confusion of those loyal and long-suffering allies. His stupidity over coddling the Honduran usurper (and criminal thief) Manuel Zelaya has only earned the affection of a shitbag like Hugo Chavez, while alienating the legitimate government of Honduras and a fledgling democracy trying to fight off the Chavetistas.

Apparently "respectful diplomacy" for Obama only extends to some, and definitely not to others .....

Piss off friends, alienate allies, coddle our enemies, and confuse Americans at home?? "Yes We Can!!"
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:53 am

[quote="separate_wayz"]
Apparently "respectful diplomacy" for Obama only extends to some, and definitely not to others .....

Piss off friends, alienate allies, coddle our enemies, and confuse Americans at home?? quote]

Wrong again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2008

Obama has a 56% job approval rating for the last two Gallup Daily tracking polls. Internationally, it stands at 74%.

So, as I stated. Wrong, again.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:00 am

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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:05 am

Those polls were taken before he was awarded the Nobel Prize. Try again.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:06 am

7 Wishes wrote:Those polls were taken before he was awarded the Nobel Prize. Try again.


Did you even click on the link? It's from November 20th, 2009...

Results are based on telephone interviews with 1,533 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted Nov. 17-19, 2009, as part of Gallup Daily tracking. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.
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Postby strangegrey » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:07 am

7 Wishes wrote:Those polls were taken before he was awarded the Nobel Prize. Try again.



Um, all 4 major pollsters have him under 50%.

He's fucking up and people are finally starting to notice....


The nobel prize is usually given to people that actually *do* something. Nothing good can come from an award you never earned....and the current polls reflect that.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:15 am

Believe it or not, I also think Obama should not have been awarded the Nobel. However, it has caused Hannity, Blimpaugh, and O'Reilly to twist their panties in a knot, and they have resorted to flat out factually incorrect misinformation in their desperation. So I'm not entirely opposed to it.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:17 am

The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:19 am

Fact Finder wrote:I'm being lazy and not trying too hard, but damned if I can find a Gallup International Poll. I'm sure there's an International poll out there somewhere though. I guess that bowing before the World might increase ones approval ratings overseas, don't think it does much good here at home.


I think 7W might have been referring to this, although it's only a year old... ;)

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/12/09/ ... 228843993/
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Postby separate_wayz » Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:53 am

Who cares what a Gallup International poll says about Obama's personal popularity?

All of his personal good will translates into ..... personal good will. For Obama only. And only on a personal level, not on a policy level, and not for America necessarily either. America's allies are starting to notice this. Even the media is starting to notice this.

By the way, Gallup's domestic poll surveys "adults", not "likely voters", so it's not particularly reliable, and tends to lean more Democratic than other, more reliable polls.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:01 am

So, you're a psychology and political science double major, eh?

Whatever. You just can't stand him, and that's fine - but what you WANT to be true is NOT true, and won't be just because it's how you perceive reality.

Keep smoking the green stuff, K? And those are NOT bathroom mints - they're urine pucks!
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Postby strangegrey » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:43 am

7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.



Last I checked, the rest of the world doesn't elect the president. The rest of the world likes him because he's finally on their side and not the side of the people who actually vote for him.... :roll:
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Postby Monker » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:40 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.


If you define hope as government dependence, high taxes, higher energy prices, forced healthcare premiums, less medical care, rationing of care and driving hybrid cars at 35 MPH for 50 miles at a time a great future. I sure don't.


It's funny how people like you make up definitions based on speculation.

BTW, the fully electrified Tesla can do 0 - 60 in 3.7 seconds...an incredilby hi-performance auto...and the thing looks totaly cool. Get your head out the 20th century...cuz this is the future.
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Postby donnaplease » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:53 pm

7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.


Wasn't Bill Clinton well-liked among the 'world'? Obviously that didn't stop Al Quaeda from plotting, planning and training for the worst terrorist attack against the US ever under his watch (I mean seriously, all that didn't take place in the 10 months from W's election til 9/11, did it?). IDK, just a thought. I hope we don't get too comfortable in our perceived peace and hope that we don't see another great threat coming our way. It truly concerns me. :?
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Postby strangegrey » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:06 am

Monker wrote:BTW, the fully electrified Tesla can do 0 - 60 in 3.7 seconds...an incredilby hi-performance auto...and the thing looks totaly cool. Get your head out the 20th century...cuz this is the future.



The Tesla looks like a fantastic car. It really does.


But at $100k, no one will be able to afford it, after they are forced to pay for cap-n-trade, healthcare, bailout after bailout, and whatever else YoMama and Skeletor try to steal out of our hard earned income.

Seriously dude....innovation is only as good as the free market it's developed in.

There's a reason why the only worthy export out of Russia since the collapse of communism are Vacuum Tubes.....a 50 year-old technology that caters only to guitarists and audiophiles.
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Postby strangegrey » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:14 am

donnaplease wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.


Wasn't Bill Clinton well-liked among the 'world'? Obviously that didn't stop Al Quaeda from plotting, planning and training for the worst terrorist attack against the US ever under his watch (I mean seriously, all that didn't take place in the 10 months from W's election til 9/11, did it?). IDK, just a thought. I hope we don't get too comfortable in our perceived peace and hope that we don't see another great threat coming our way. It truly concerns me. :?



The original post was delivered from a position of sheer drug-induced idiocy...Over the same 144 years, We fought 2 World Wars under democrats, Vietnam, experienced one of the worst periods of skepticism regarding the future, under Carter....a man could go on.


I have to congratulate 7 on his careful use of math, however. 144 years conveniently leaves out Abe Lincoln. While the GOP was intent on removing the institution of slavery from this country's socio-economic structure, predecessors to and framers of modern democrats were desperately trying to preserve slavery. How's that for 'peace and hope for the future'????
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Postby Monker » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:14 am

donnaplease wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.


Wasn't Bill Clinton well-liked among the 'world'? Obviously that didn't stop Al Quaeda from plotting, planning and training for the worst terrorist attack against the US ever under his watch (I mean seriously, all that didn't take place in the 10 months from W's election til 9/11, did it?). IDK, just a thought. I hope we don't get too comfortable in our perceived peace and hope that we don't see another great threat coming our way. It truly concerns me. :?


You're right. It also took Reagan and the first Bush to support and train him and his fellow soldiers. The same situation was with Sadam. We should stay out of such meddling...both Iraq and Afghanistan prove that...going all the way back to Reagan.
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Postby Monker » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:20 am

strangegrey wrote:
Monker wrote:BTW, the fully electrified Tesla can do 0 - 60 in 3.7 seconds...an incredilby hi-performance auto...and the thing looks totaly cool. Get your head out the 20th century...cuz this is the future.



The Tesla looks like a fantastic car. It really does.


But at $100k, no one will be able to afford it, after they are forced to pay for cap-n-trade, healthcare, bailout after bailout, and whatever else YoMama and Skeletor try to steal out of our hard earned income.

Seriously dude....innovation is only as good as the free market it's developed in.


They released a Porsche for their first car. The next is a MUCH more affordible $50,000 version. Like I said, it's the future, get used to it, seriously.

There's a reason why the only worthy export out of Russia since the collapse of communism are Vacuum Tubes.....a 50 year-old technology that caters only to guitarists and audiophiles.


I say that it is companies like Tesla Motors who will out innovate, and compete the rest of the auto industry. They know what both the public want, and what the government wants to support. The rest of the auto industry too tied to their old ways to break away. Those who can't get off the oil addiction will fade away and be out of business within 20yrs.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:26 am

strangegrey wrote:While the GOP was intent on removing the institution of slavery from this country's socio-economic structure, predecessors to and framers of modern democrats were desperately trying to preserve slavery. How's that for 'peace and hope for the future'????


Ok, and many of those same pro-slavery Democrats would become Dixiecrats and/or later join the Republican party.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:26 am

Monker wrote:
donnaplease wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.


Wasn't Bill Clinton well-liked among the 'world'? Obviously that didn't stop Al Quaeda from plotting, planning and training for the worst terrorist attack against the US ever under his watch (I mean seriously, all that didn't take place in the 10 months from W's election til 9/11, did it?). IDK, just a thought. I hope we don't get too comfortable in our perceived peace and hope that we don't see another great threat coming our way. It truly concerns me. :?


You're right. It also took Reagan and the first Bush to support and train him and his fellow soldiers. The same situation was with Sadam. We should stay out of such meddling...both Iraq and Afghanistan prove that...going all the way back to Reagan.


The Afghan buisness started under Carter.
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Postby donnaplease » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:45 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:
donnaplease wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:The reason the rest of the world likes him so much is that he is perceived as someone who will bring relative peace and hope for the future, something the GOP hasn't attempted to in 144 years.


Wasn't Bill Clinton well-liked among the 'world'? Obviously that didn't stop Al Quaeda from plotting, planning and training for the worst terrorist attack against the US ever under his watch (I mean seriously, all that didn't take place in the 10 months from W's election til 9/11, did it?). IDK, just a thought. I hope we don't get too comfortable in our perceived peace and hope that we don't see another great threat coming our way. It truly concerns me. :?


You're right. It also took Reagan and the first Bush to support and train him and his fellow soldiers. The same situation was with Sadam. We should stay out of such meddling...both Iraq and Afghanistan prove that...going all the way back to Reagan.


The Afghan buisness started under Carter.


I wasn't blaming Clinton for the Al Quaeda thing. I guess my point is that it really doesn't matter a whole lot to that type of individual/group how much our president is liked. It wasn't the president Al Quaeda was attacking, it was our American ideals that are so contrasted to their beliefs. Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about BO and his relations with other nations. I understand it in a way, but I think he's gone too far in apologizing for what he perceives as his predecessors wrongful actions, when I don't believe the nation as a whole agrees with his POV. Over-emphasizing his desire to be 'liked' makes him seem weak to me. Perhaps Bush was too much of a rebel when it came to foreign relations. I think Obama is too far in the opposite direction.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:04 am

donnaplease wrote:...but I think he's gone too far in apologizing for what he perceives as his predecessors wrongful actions, when I don't believe the nation as a whole agrees with his POV.

Mentioning the 1953 Iranian Coup and the Monroe Doctrine are neither apologies or "perceived" wrongful actions.
Those are unequivocal, air-tight, historical facts, that most people should've been taught at some point in high school.
It's soo funny, Bush ran on a reality-based geopolitical platform of "no nation building" and then morphed into Woodrow Wilson, idealistically praising the virtues of imposing democracy everywhere. Once again, Obama the liberal, is more the conservative, by at least appearing to talk to other nations on an even keel, with ZERO imperialistic ambitions.

donnaplease wrote:Perhaps Bush was too much of a rebel when it came to foreign relations. I think Obama is too far in the opposite direction.

As evidenced by Bush's bait-and-switch when it came to foreign affairs, you people don't know what the hell it is you believe.
You let the President run wild and then try to find ways to make his actions fit your party affiliation.
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Postby strangegrey » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:17 am

Monker wrote:I say that it is companies like Tesla Motors who will out innovate, and compete the rest of the auto industry. They know what both the public want, and what the government wants to support. The rest of the auto industry too tied to their old ways to break away. Those who can't get off the oil addiction will fade away and be out of business within 20yrs.


Listen, I'm open to the idea of 'electric' cars. I really am. The Tesla Motor Company has demonstrated true performance out of cell/electric power.

However, I'm not so sure I agree with you on the public 'wanting' this....if that were the case, hybrids would have put every internal combustion engine out to pasture...the only thing that sells hybrids is high gas prices. When gas prices retreat, so do sales on these things. That to me is a sure fire indicator that the public doesn't genuinely want it...but feel it's a "necessary evil"

How the government shapes fossil fuel consumption and production in the next 20 years will likely dictate what cars we are driving...not anything else.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:23 am

It is well known Bill Clinton warned President George W. Bush before he left office in 2001 that Osama bin Laden was the biggest security threat the United States faced.

Clinton discussed security issues with Bush in his "Exit Interview," a formal and often candid meeting between a sitting president and the president-elect.

"In his campaign, Bush had said he thought the biggest security issue was Iraq and a national missile defence," Clinton said. "I told him that in my opinion, the biggest security problem was Osama bin Laden."

"After Bin Laden, I told him I would have start with India and Pakistan, then North Korea, and then Iraq after that. I thought Iraq was a lower order problem than al Qaeda."

Time magazine reported last year that a plan for the United States to launch attacks against the al-Qaeda network (something Clinton had in the works before he left office) languished for ten months because of the change in presidents and was approved only a week before the September 11 attacks.
The CIA also warned W in August of 2001 in an urgent briefing that AQ was planning to use airplanes in a terrorist attack, and warned him about the proliferation of Saudis suddenly taking airline pilot training lessons in Florida and Arizona.

Let's look at some of the brilliance W brought to office, as well. And don't forget the Democrats didn't have a majority in Congress or the House until 2006.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
Then: 4.2% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, January 2001)
Last Quarter of 2008: 7.7% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, November 2008)

DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE
Then: 10,587 (close of Friday, Jan. 19, 2001)
Last Quarter of 2008: 8,775 (close of Tuesday, Dec. 6, 2008)

BUSH FAVORABILITY RATING
Then: 50% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 31% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

SATISFIED WITH THE NATION'S DIRECTION
Then: 45% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 26% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

CONSUMER CONFIDENCE (1985=100)
Then: 115.7 (Conference Board, January 2001)
Final Quarter of 2008: 38.0, which is an all-time low (Conference Board, December 2008)

FAMILIES LIVING IN POVERTY
Then: 6.4 million (Census numbers for 2000)
2008: 7.9 million (Census numbers for 2008)

AMERICANS WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE
Then: 39.8 million (Census numbers for 2000)
Final Quarter of 2008: 47.7 million (Census numbers for 2008)

U.S. BUDGET
Then: +236.2 billion (2000, Congressional Budget Office)
2008: -$1.2 trillion (projected figure for 2009, Congressional Budget Office)
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Postby RedWingFan » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:10 pm

7 Wishes wrote:Let's look at some of the brilliance W brought to office, as well. And don't forget the Democrats didn't have a majority in Congress or the House until 2006.
UNEMPLOYMENT RATE
Then: 4.2% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, January 2001)
Last Quarter of 2008: 7.7% (Bureau of Labor Statistics, November 2008)

DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE
Then: 10,587 (close of Friday, Jan. 19, 2001)
Last Quarter of 2008: 8,775 (close of Tuesday, Dec. 6, 2008

SATISFIED WITH THE NATION'S DIRECTION
Then: 45% (1/01 NBC/WSJ poll)
Now: 26% (12/08 NBC/WSJ poll)

Yeah, look up these same #'s from late 2005 before the Democrats took Congress! Wouldn't want anyone to see that would you? Fact is the economy was doing very well before the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac disaster came to a head (which Bush repeatedly asked Congress to reform, about a dozen or so times if I remember correctly)
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:48 pm

RedWingFan wrote:Yeah, look up these same #'s from late 2005 before the Democrats took Congress! Wouldn't want anyone to see that would you? Fact is the economy was doing very well before the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac disaster came to a head (which Bush repeatedly asked Congress to reform, about a dozen or so times if I remember correctly)

By the time of the collapse, Freddie and Fannie were trailing trends set by Wall Street.
Meanwhile, Wall Street was gaining subprime market share.
Yes, Bush made a few half-hearted attempts to rein them in, but his administration also prevented states from fighting predatory lending and took other rules off the books.
Michael Oxley, Republican chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, wrote a bill in 2005 with Barney Frank to to reform Fannie and Freddie.
It went nowhere, in fact, Oxley said Bush gave him the "one-finger salute.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8780c35e-7e91 ... ck_check=1
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Postby Behshad » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:42 am

separate_wayz wrote:.... and, dammit, here he is bowing again .....

Image



Image
Image
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Postby JH'sTXfan » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:44 am

Behshad wrote:
separate_wayz wrote:.... and, dammit, here he is bowing again .....

Image



Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: Obama can bow all he wants!
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:10 am

Behshad wrote:
separate_wayz wrote:.... and, dammit, here he is bowing again .....

Image



Image


Obviously a photoshop. My Islamofacist friend you are a hoot!
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