How You Feel About Journey In Three Words Or Less

[Don]

Escape 81 rocks.

Kiss my A@@!!!

Giddy up!

[portland]

Escape 81 rocks.

Kiss my A@@!!!

Kiss your At at? AT-AT? Isn't that something from Star Wars?

she got it....some don't need it spelled out for them.....Giddy

[Escape81]

Escape 81 rocks.

Kiss my A@@!!!

Kiss your At at? AT-AT? Isn't that something from Star Wars?

she got it....some don't need it spelled out for them.....Giddy

I'm not sure she did. Neither of us are fluent in Loon. You probably meant A$$ -- it's more believable and all the cool kids use it!

And who is Giddy?

[steveo777]

Giddy is that you ^^^^^

Not as far as any of us are concerned......why risk a ban?

Damned if he isn't surely cultivating himself as the new front man for the Gideon band.

[portland]

Giddy is that you ^^^^^

Not as far as any of us are concerned......why risk a ban?

Damned if he isn't surely cultivating himself as the new front man for the Gideon band.

Yes well he is doing a fine job......

[Don]

Herbie Is Journey

[Jana]

Giddy is that you ^^^^^

Not as far as any of us are concerned......why risk a ban?

Damned if he isn't surely cultivating himself as the new front man for the Gideon band.

Yes well he is doing a fine job......

It seems to me Escape is one of the really few objective people on here. He is open-minded about all the singers and members and gives bashing where bashing is due to all. You, Portland, are the least objective on here.

[steveo777]

Giddy is that you ^^^^^

Not as far as any of us are concerned......why risk a ban?

Damned if he isn't surely cultivating himself as the new front man for the Gideon band.

Yes well he is doing a fine job......

It seems to me Escape is one of the really few objective people on here. He is open-minded about all the singers and members and gives bashing where bashing is due to all. You, Portland, are the least objective on here.

She attends the Perry church on sundays and they serve up lots of koolaid.

[portland]

Giddy is that you ^^^^^

Not as far as any of us are concerned......why risk a ban?

Damned if he isn't surely cultivating himself as the new front man for the Gideon band.

Yes well he is doing a fine job......

It seems to me Escape is one of the really few objective people on here. He is open-minded about all the singers and members and gives bashing where bashing is due to all. You, Portland, are the least objective on here.

Jana - I don't think so......I like SA and JSS.....and well that makes me a bit more objective than some......and I love you too!!!

[Jana]

Giddy is that you ^^^^^

Not as far as any of us are concerned......why risk a ban?

Damned if he isn't surely cultivating himself as the new front man for the Gideon band.

Yes well he is doing a fine job......

It seems to me Escape is one of the really few objective people on here. He is open-minded about all the singers and members and gives bashing where bashing is due to all. You, Portland, are the least objective on here.

Jana - I don't think so......I like SA and JSS.....and well that makes me a bit more objective than some......and I love you too!!!

And the day you one time can compliment Arnel on a great performance on a clip or anything without relishing every bad comment on here and then ignoring anything good is the day I will take back that comment. I may not like JSS, but I have complimented certain performances by him re Journey where merited. You cannot do that. It kills you. Most others on here who aren't Arnel fans can still do that where merited. Love ya' too.

[Don]

[Escape81]

Yeah, it's that fundamental double standard that just grates at ya. From my perspective, it's not hard to see (or imagine) that all of Journey's vocalists brought something worthwhile to the table. I mean, even Augeri; a world-class band like Journey isn't going to pick a talentless schmuck to sing for them! The masses are pleased. I think people have their preferences, which is more than okay.

If, for example, P(ortland)erson X genuinely doesn't like Arnel's voice, more power to her. If she genuinely can't see why they hired him, all right. But then she should understand better than anyone that people are not bound to like or worship a particular vocalist and should therefore be more... open minded... for those who do not regard the great Steve Perry as she does.

That is objectivity. What's good for one is good for all and people shouldn't be treated differently if they are honest, straightforward, and adhere to a single standard.

/My condescending lecture for the day.

[Jana]

I'm with you. That damn Portland is a thread-killing Ninja.

[portland]

Girls night out........and I will see ya later!!!!

[Escape81]

Girls night out........and I will see ya later!!!!

So many jokes, so little time... Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[SherriBerry]

Insulting someone as a "loonietoon" does not strengthen your arguments but rather weakens your position before you start.

You say insult, I say observation. As far as insults go, “loonietoon” is pretty tame, so just let it go.

I observed it as merely pointless condescension - there is nothing to "let go".

When SP said he was toast, he meant it and if Neal wanted to believe he would be back in a few months, that was his erroneous hope or assumption. But in no interview I ever read in print or watched on screen has any member of Journey ever said that at the end of the ROR tour Steve Perry told them he was only taking a break and would be back! He said he was done. The band could have waited as little or as long as they wanted before deciding whether to go on without him. If they chose to wait rather than try to replace SP after a year or two, that was their choice and no one held a bloody gun to their heads.

They must have been confused when Toast made his transformation back into a delicious slice of Whole Wheat for the purposes of recording a second solo album approximately two years later. Unfortunately, it seemed as though no one cared about a Journeyless Steve Perry and the album was pimpsmacked into the fiery gates of Corporate Hell.

Karma’s a bitch, Steve!

That does not change the fact that he did not hold up Journey, so your comment is irrelevant.

If their other projects like Bad English had produced a fraction of the success they had with SP and Journey, Journey would not have reformed.

Where exactly was this said by someone credible? Bad English was a three year project that landed a platinum album and a number one hit. Neither Journey nor Perry solo yielded a number one hit, which is an impressive accomplishment. And this was done when the epoch of glam/hair rock was on its way out. Nicely done, gentlemen.

Bad English was a three year project because these guys needed to stay on the road touring to remain intact, but jumped into side projects off the road and wound up disbanding - that is a quote from John Waite. That and he was clashing with Jon on the writing. Think about it - if they were enjoying huge success at whatever they were doing, they would not end it to try to reform Journey.

SuperBowl '09 and the assertion by many (not me) that Journey has become its own tribute band.

This is where you and I deviate. A lackluster performance is not a sign of compromised legacy or integrity. If that’s the case, none of Journey’s members—not even the great Perry himself—qualify as persons of integrity. They’ve all had major suck-ass moments: see Perry at the Bill Graham Memorial or White Sox rally for demonstration that even the Voice is fallible.

And the tribute band remarks have no merit.

The SuperBowl performance was completely preventable and demonstrated problems with Journey's management. It was supposed to showcase the new Journey on national television and certainly did not enhance them - ask ScarabGator. The tribute band remarks have no merit to you and I noted that I do not feel that way either, but it has been debated on here and is therefore relevant to Journey's legacy and fanbase.

SP wanted Journey's legacy to remain intact and now they are on their 6th lead singer who moonlights in the off season as a rock music impersonator. A little Van Halen anyone?

Head’s up: we’re about to deviate some more! This is a suggestion to all those espousing the whole “legacy!” bullshit. Three words: Let. It. Go. Especially you, Sherri. Your sentence directly implies that Journey’s legacy is somewhat compromised. According to whom? You? Perhaps, but not the public. As you say… “Until the publicity from Arnel, most people did not realize Journey was still touring!” That means, to the eyes of the group who really matter—the majority—Journey’s legacy remains intact. They don’t care about Tapegate or Soto or Augeri or their respective departures. They care about a damn good show and the Journey sound, which is what concert goers have been getting in spades. When you turn a blind eye to something, you’re ignorant of its actions. The public didn’t see Soto or Augeri being canned; therefore, they don’t care. No coverage and no curiosity to the band other than an awesome singer who evokes the great Perry in concert. The legacy? It’s fine, contrary to your apocalyptic cynicism.

Where have you been? No one currently espouses " the legacy" and continuing it more than Neal and Jon and you'll notice that I was responding to Parfait's assertions that Steve Perry tried to thwart their efforts to continue it. That was why I mentioned it - directly countering Parfait's assertions to the contrary. There is nothing to "let go" - it's called a counterpoint. As for the majority who go to hear a few old hits, have no appreciation for the entire Journey catalogue and are clueless to the history of the band and don't care, well their ignorance may be bliss, but the music means more than that to some of us and it matters.

Steve Perry was the one who went into the studio and engineered the enhanced releases of Journey's albums and DVD, so your assertion that he is working against Neal and Jon's efforts to keep Journey's music alive is utter bullshit. Touring as Journey is about revenue and SP would have preferred not to get paid if it meant they didn't tour with a new singer.

Could you, like, make something of an effort to avoid double standards? When Steve Perry remarkets and repackages the old material (to make a profit), he’s a saint: the Guardian of Integrity himself! When the rest of the band (three members who were involved in the original works to Perry’s one) attempts to do the exact same thing—with more incentive, I might add, as proof that their new vocalist can honor Perry’s vaunted legacy—they’re reviled and despised. Is a single standard too much to ask from people?

Could you, like, consider, that there is a significant difference between Steve Perry going into the studio to engineer the old catalogue and release the albums so that the fans can enjoy the originals with a clearer sound, and releasing very poorly produced rerecords that did nothing but artificially inflate Journey's sales numbers? They get zero airplay, but the general consensus on this board is that the rerecords make great coasters.

If you want to give respect where it is due, leave some for Steve Perry.

They all deserve respect—Perry, Schon, Cain, Smith, Valory, Dunbar, Rolie, Castronovo, Soto, Augeri, Pineda, and everyone else—for what they accomplished together and apart. Not one, not a few—ALL of them.

I did not say they didn't - I said leave some for SP, not give it all to SP.

If it weren't for him, Journey's legacy would have been flushed down the toilet, as the others would have allowed the songs to be used in any commercial from deodorant to tampons.

Seriously, drop the fucking legacy argument. It’s entirely without merit or substance. Do you know what most critics and people believe Journey to be? Corporate rock. Soulless, capitalist corporate rock. They were mainstream. Non-experimental. They adhered to a formula that was only altered to make even MORE mainstream (ROR anyone?). Are they talented? Sure. Are they liked? Absolutely. But they ain’t Led Zeppelin or Queen or the Rolling fucking Stones to the eyes of the public. Journey’s legacy constitutes churning out three minute AOR gems with stunning vocals, melodies, and guitar acrobatics. That’s it. Nowhere will Journey ever be cited as the pinnacle of artistic and musical integrity. But if it helps suit your argument about Perry, by all means…

That the critics branded Journey as corporate rock to minimize their music demonstrates their insipid bias - using them as an example of judging artistic integrity does not benefit you. I don't care what they think of the songs anyway, but using them for crap commercials ruins the association and the enjoyment of them by the fans and if you don't get that, so be it. And again, I was countering Parfait's arguments, so seriously, drop the attitude.

SP is also the reason Herbie does not own Journey - otherwise it would have been Herbie getting paid like a MF all of these years and he didn't write or sing anything.

Herbie brought them together and is singlehandedly responsible for Journey’s career. Perry’s, Schon’s, everyone’s. He claims to have more money than all of them; can’t blame him.

True, but that does not change the fact that people continue to whine about SP getting paid while he was not touring. Neal agreed to it and as there was already a precedent set by Gregg Rolie, it is hardly reasonable to keep throwing that criticism at SP.

[larryfromnextdoor]

Texas Tech Won

[Escape81]

I observed it as merely pointless condescension - there is nothing to "let go".

Your observation is noted, but since the majority here—including yourself, if I recall—proudly wear the moniker, why would you consider it a pejorative? It was a tame comment, and it in no way weakens his argument. So, yes, let it go.

That does not change the fact that he did not hold up Journey, so your comment is irrelevant.

Sure he did (hold them up), and sure it is (relevant). He held them up between ’84-’86, between ’87-’96, and ’96-’98; Herbie was pushing the rest of the band to move on without him during each of those occasions. But they were loyal. His middle name might as well be Delay. That’s all he does. The man exhibited tendencies suggesting that he was clearly afraid of the band finding success without him, thus “don’t fracture the stone.” He fractured it to his benefit more than once.

Bad English was a three year project because these guys needed to stay on the road touring to remain intact, but jumped into side projects off the road and wound up disbanding - that is a quote from John Waite. That and he was clashing with Jon on the writing. Think about it - if they were enjoying huge success at whatever they were doing, they would not end it to try to reform Journey.

What is there to think about? Bad English did enjoy some incredible success, including a number one hit—something neither Perry nor Journey have yet to achieve otherwise. Perhaps Neal secretly enjoys playing in Journey?

The SuperBowl performance was completely preventable and demonstrated problems with Journey's management. It was supposed to showcase the new Journey on national television and certainly did not enhance them - ask ScarabGator. The tribute band remarks have no merit to you and I noted that I do not feel that way either, but it has been debated on here and is therefore relevant to Journey's legacy and fanbase.

The atrocious Bill Graham Memorial performance was also preventable and demonstrated problems with not management, but Perry himself. The songs were taken down, the lyrics allegedly taped to the damn floor. He put the crowd into a coma. Doesn't take away from his creative genius and (former) talent.

Where have you been? No one currently espouses " the legacy" and continuing it more than Neal and Jon and you'll notice that I was responding to Parfait's assertions that Steve Perry tried to thwart their efforts to continue it. That was why I mentioned it - directly countering Parfait's assertions to the contrary. There is nothing to "let go" - it's called a counterpoint. As for the majority who go to hear a few old hits, have no appreciation for the entire Journey catalogue and are clueless to the history of the band and don't care, well their ignorance may be bliss, but the music means more than that to some of us and it matters.

Parfait’s correct: Perry did try to thwart Journey and their efforts to continue it. Why else would he plead them to not go on without him? Perry’s only interested in perpetuating a legacy that DIRECTLY involves him and his voice. Not new material and not new records. You haven’t made much of a counterpoint, but illuminate the man’s monumental selfishness.

Could you, like, consider, that there is a significant difference between Steve Perry going into the studio to engineer the old catalogue and release the albums so that the fans can enjoy the originals with a clearer sound, and releasing very poorly produced rerecords that did nothing but artificially inflate Journey's sales numbers? They get zero airplay, but the general consensus on this board is that the rerecords make great coasters.

Why would he engineer the old catalogue? The sound was perfectly fine; Perry was out to make a buck, not to drastically improve the quality of the sound. It’s not like it was shit to begin with. I appreciate you trying to impute some sort of altruistic mentality on a man who has never exhibited any, but we live in the real world. Journey had more of an incentive, musically speaking, to release the old hits: they wanted to prove that they had a vocalist who could honor Perry’s legacy—as Ross said—by singing the old material up to par. What was Perry’s motivation? Ah, yes. The unattested notion that he was improving the quality of sound. Please. He’s far more intent on milking the old material than the rest of Journey is. They, at least, put out new material.

I did not say they didn't - I said leave some for SP, not give it all to SP.

Parfait in no way disrespected Steve Perry. He gave his opinion about Perry’s less-than-honorable dealings; just like you provided some similar dealings by current Journey (i.e. Tapegate, JSS firing, ect.). What’s the difference between the two of you?

That the critics branded Journey as corporate rock to minimize their music demonstrates their insipid bias - using them as an example of judging artistic integrity does not benefit you. I don't care what they think of the songs anyway, but using them for crap commercials ruins the association and the enjoyment of them by the fans and if you don't get that, so be it. And again, I was countering Parfait's arguments, so seriously, drop the attitude.

Your excuses are irrelevant. The fact remains that NO ONE important considers Journey to be on par with the true greats in terms of artistic integrity and soul. And that includes the Perry-era. They’re underrated, underappreciated, and that’s not likely to change. The talent’s there, but no one cares about their legacy and their integrity other than their ability to put on a good show. And in what weird-ass dimension does using a song for “crap commercials” (which are subjective to begin with) ruin the integrity? The key edict to any novice in P.R. understands one thing—there’s no such thing as bad publicity. It’s called exposure. Don’t Stop Believin’ could be used for anything from Tampon commercials to election campaign commercials and all it would do is just put the song into people’s heads.

True,

Good, then you acknowledge that your point was meritless.

but that does not change the fact that people continue to whine about SP getting paid while he was not touring. Neal agreed to it and as there was already a precedent set by Gregg Rolie, it is hardly reasonable to keep throwing that criticism at SP.

Where is the source for Gregg Rolie? And furthermore, when did Gregg Rolie get paid after royally screwing the band over? Different circumstances; your comparison is moot. But your Perry apologia is entertaining, so I encourage you to continue.

[steveo777]

^ It's been a few months since we've had anyone who can debate like this around here.

[portland]

^ It's been a few months since we've had anyone who can debate like this around here.

Yes Giddy UP

[Don]

Three words only

[portland]

Yes the rules!

[Don]

lori iss hotzzz

[portland]

that's Neals loss

[steveo777]

Three words only

The banned return

Short Night Out (Portland)

[portland]

Three words only

The banned return

Short Night Out (Portland)

Drinks with friends.....that's all

[Michigan Girl]

I observed it as merely pointless condescension - there is nothing to "let go".

Your observation is noted, but since the majority here—including yourself, if I recall—proudly wear the moniker, why would you consider it a pejorative? It was a tame comment, and it in no way weakens his argument. So, yes, let it go.

GIDDY IS BACK?!?!?

[portland]

I observed it as merely pointless condescension - there is nothing to "let go".

Your observation is noted, but since the majority here—including yourself, if I recall—proudly wear the moniker, why would you consider it a pejorative? It was a tame comment, and it in no way weakens his argument. So, yes, let it go.

GIDDY IS BACK?!?!?

Reinforcements have arrived!!!!!

[Michigan Girl]

so I encourage you to continue.

and you...Giddy!!!

[Author2]

Perry Pitch Perfect

In the studio

Don't agree.

Perry had GREAT live pitch.

Arnel's is pretty good too, but I've heard him off pitch early on. I don't hear it these days though.

Augeri unfortunately never had great live pitch.

WOW WE AGREE!!!

Portland- I never diss Perry's talent as a vocalist and what he brought to Journey. I never minimize his contribution. I personally doubt that he'll ever be what he was and the people saying that he will return to form without a doubt amaze me. The blind legion that follows him without putting his actions into perspective bugs the crap out of me. The fact that they slam Arnel every chance they get because it somehow threatens Perry's memory (which it does not do) amazes me. I DO slam him for the crap that he put the band through and the constant teasing of the fans. I tell it like it is rather than putting him through some kind of "messiah-filter" (sans my av!). I love the guy's voice, but the fact that he's been sitting on his ass after screwing the band over doesn't sit well with me. The fact that he was paid as an equal member during the Augeri years while he sat home also doesn't sit well with me. It was a shitty thing for him to do. First he sticks the band by not promoting or touring with TBF (like he agreed), then when they move on (after YEARS of waiting for him), he sticks it to them again. THAT is not the doings of a guy that's "good people". When he's great, I will say so. When he's a douche, I will say so. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thought this was a fun thread. You had to go off cue didn't you?

I take it you represented the band? As a fan equipped with common sense, I don't hold to any of your mumbo/jumbo above nor will I blame him for what you call teasing. I see more Perry slamming than Arnel and quite a bit being from you. I tell you with fans like some of you guys, who needs enemies?

They were all adults, but if you slam - I slam the band for what they did to him, excessive touring then bashing him for not continuing, being musicians and knowing what it did to his voice. Perry toured for what almost ten years on cue and I am happy for whatever good deal he may have gotten because he truly lost the MOST for he could very well be eating out of a trash can. And, the way the touring demons would have humiliated him by having him "sit on a stool."

But all in all we probably can't tell it like it is because doubtfully any of us were privy to what went on with the guys. So I look at what happened with Perry, Steve A, JSS and all the accommodations to save Arnel and (forgive me here) count NS' wives (that count somewhat coincides with lead singers) to come to a conclusion. Judging from your "facts" Neal and the rest were complete morons, unable to make any decisions, huh? In that case, perhaps you are like they, unable to accept responsibility for their own actions or lack thereof, but would rather blame it on others.

We all have our ticks, huh? I guess "good people" are the ones who try to fool the fans by lipping, discharge singers without notice or terminate singers while on sick-leave or the ones who mock their idols "note for note."


Carry on!!

No need to get fiesty, Sherminator. Brywool here came up with a good (and true) argument, and you, as the loonietoon you are, regurgitates the same old crap.

Like I asked before, did Brywool or you for that matter represent the band and/or were privy to what went on? If not hearsay/guess-say is not admissable, and if I may quote you "regurgitating the same old crap."

Everyone knows that the J-boyz should have done a lot of stuff different, that's a given. But let's dish out some facts:

EXACTLY, so why the Perry bash, huh?

- Perry himself said that the band didn't push him to do anything - they were on "a mission together". Brothers in music, and all that.

EXACTLY! Like I said above they were all adults but if you slam - I slam.

- Who the fuck cares how many wives Neal have had?

Well, maybe just looking at the fact that he got along so well with ALL of them so of course he wouldn't be the problem child with the band, huh?

You really should get your head out of Perry's huge nostril, cause you really need to see things from both sides (and I'm talking to everyone of you loons ). Perry wasn't the only one being burned out during the RoR tour - Neal lost his father around the same time as Perry lost his mom. But people are different, so it's Perry's prerogative to call it quits if he's toast. But then he held back the band for almost ten years - Journey were on "hold" cause of Perry. When TBF finally came, he didn't even tour - and put Journey on old once more.

Well, it's big enough so maybe I'll keep it there for a while. You should practice what you preach. Show me the gun or the order that he used to "hold" them. Otherwise as I stated above, don't blame him for their inability to make decisions. The buck stopped with them.

But Neal and Cain wanted to tour, they wanted to play the Journey music to their own fanbase - cause that's what real musicians do. So Perry coughed up some litter sand, and told 'em not to crack the stone - which is the most egotistical shit ever. He was afraid that someone was going to diminish his talent (Journey was Perry's band around RoR, there's no denying it), so he wanted Neal and Cain to basically quit something they was as much part of as Perry. Mr. Kittens screwed Journey, end of story.

I would think any musician plays music? It's America and one has a right to his/her feelings, huh? I don't care if his ego was bigger than the moon for he did nothing to stop them from moving on, but just expressed his desire that he did not want them to. I read in an interview that Jon said Perry could have tried to stop them, but he didn't and that Perry always keeps his word. They dealt Perry a bad hand - end of story.

But that really doesn't matter anymore. Nostrilus screwed Journey, and Journey screwed JSS - get over it. The fact remains that Neal and Cain are the one keeping the Journey name alive; they keep on touring, and thus more people listens to Journey with Perry as a result. Neal and Cain says that they are honoring the magic the three created together. Perry should be damn grateful for that. Instead he chooses to tease about his "work" every year, just to keep himself in the spotlight.

Perry toured from 78-87 and gave his all so I'll say Mission Accomplished. He didn't have to live, breath, eat, think touring/Journey, etc. as Neal did. Journey dealt Perry a bad hand. Maybe Neal and Cain are honoring that almighty dollar. If his "teasing" every year keeps him in the spotlight, all I can say is More Power to Him! My life goes on and on..... Get with the Program!

Mr. Kittens is the best vocalist, ever. Journey created magic back then, but Perry chooses to work against what Neal and Cain are doing; keeping JOURNEY alive!

Like I said with fans like you, who needs enemies - no wonder he's incognito. He's entitled to his opinion. Keeping the Journey alive by any means necessary (mocking, mimicking, rerecording) just seems so insulting to Steve Perry, but hopefully he doesn't see it the way I do.

It's perfectly okay to get your panties in a twirl after watching Still They Ride, but try to see things from Neal and Cain's side. Give respect were respect is due

Back at you! It's perfectly okay for you and Brywool to somewhat resent Perry for not continuing, but give him the respect he deserves for the years and music he gave you. Do not hold him accountable for the actions or lack of actions of others!


Take care!