R.I.P. Global Warming...The Convenient Truth...it's not hot!

[artist4perry]

But as I have said........global warming is a theory. Not fact. You are putting it into context of a fact.

And, what you said was wrong. Global warming is true. Saying it isn't is akin to saying you believe the Earth is flat. Only somebody very naive or ignarant about the facts would say it's not. The CAUASE of global warming is what is being argued. Is it man burning fossil fuels, or a natural cycle of some kind, or something else?

My opinion is that it is a combination of things. However, how many times can humanity take a crap in the corner of its house before it realizes that the stench is coming from the pile of crap it created and start finding a better way of getting rid of its waste?

Show me where Global warming has been declaired as an indisputable fact. Last I heard it is still catagorized as a theory.

As for me being ignorant or naive because I would dare question a theory puts science to be dogmatic because you put it down as unquestionable. Science should always be questioned...........thus we learn and grow and discover. Quite scientific.

[fredinator]

Would you deny that humans put a hole in the ozone layer?

[artist4perry]

Would you deny that humans put a hole in the ozone layer?

Humans or cows? I am not saying Car emissions are good, nor that they do no harm. I am just saying Henny Penny does not need to cry the sky is falling and throw billions of dollars at projects that line pockets more than help. I am all for changing types of fuels. But lets not declare what is a theory as a fact. We should all do our part to give to a world that has generously given to us. But I am not for throwing money at money grubbers who use the theory as a way to line pockets.

[fredinator]

The hole in the ozone layer is not a theory, it is a fact. It was caused by humans, also.

[artist4perry]

The hole in the ozone layer is not a theory, it is a fact. It was caused by humans, also.

I never said the hole was a theory..........I was refering to global warming being a theory.

To add to this.........we should conserve fuel. And think about changing fuels..........I said so above I beleive.

[fredinator]

I think when one discusses global warming, the hole in the ozone plays a large part in the discussion. How can you believe in the hole in the ozone but call global warming a theory? "Some atmosphere models predict stratospheric-ozone recovery until 2050.12 Other models predict a an increased recovery rate (‘super recovery’) of stratospheric ozone, exceeding the 1970 mean value as a consequence of stratospheric cooling caused by human-induced global warming of the troposphere. Despite the good news implied by Figure 1, NDACC must remain focused on the global atmosphere watch of the ozone layer. The past decades of intense ozone research have made clear that stratospheric ozone constitutes a life-saving protection shield against harmful solar UV radiation. In addition, ozone plays a crucial role in atmospheric dynamics and energetics. The earth's climate system has been seriously disordered by man-made CO2 emissions as well as by human-caused stratospheric ozone depletion. The complex interaction between climate dynamics and atmospheric-composition change requires more observations and modeling."

[fredinator]

"Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) are a family of chemical compounds developed back in the 1930's as safe, non-toxic, non-flammable alternative to dangerous substances like ammonia for purposes of refrigeration and spray can propellants. Their usage grew enormously over the years. One of the elements that make up CFCs is chlorine. Very little chlorine exists naturally in the atmosphere. But it turns out that CFCs are an excellent way of introducing chlorine into the ozone layer. The ultraviolet radiation at this altitude breaks down CFCs, freeing the chlorine. Under the proper conditions, this chlorine has the potential to destroy large amounts of ozone. This has indeed been observed, especially over Antarctica. As a consequence, levels of genetically harmful ultraviolet radiation have increased."

Spray cans and freon are the biggest culprits.

[fredinator]

Yes, it exists. This is a picture of it. I hope this thing isn't too big.

[7 Wishes]

There has NEVER been a hole in the ozone layer until now.

Must be a coincidence, eh, Lie Finder?

[X factor]

CO2 levels are higher than they EVER, EVER have been. Ever. In recorded history.

The polar ice caps have never melted since earth became temperate. They will be gone in ten years.

These are facts. Coincidence? Personally, I don't think so.

Those are things that are facts, but it is not something that proves Global warming.

Can you prove the ice caps will be Gone? What if it cools off and they refreeze?

As for the CO2 levels, they say cow and pet farts add to a great deal of our problems.........do we kill all cats, dogs, and cows? Maybe readings are off.............all I know is it is not a proven fact yet.

And yes the earth goes through cycles.

Where do you get these facts anyway? From scientists who are trying to prove global warming? Could their science be a bit biased?

You're absolutely right, lets just stick our heads in the sand till it's too late! God forbid we should sacrifice a few tax dollars to save the planet for our grandchildren.

[RedWingFan]

Shit, Monker, get on the phone and call these guys and set them straight pronto.

His mom won't let him call long distance!

[RedWingFan]

CO2 levels are higher than they EVER, EVER have been. Ever. In recorded history.

The polar ice caps have never melted since earth became temperate. They will be gone in ten years.

These are facts. Coincidence? Personally, I don't think so.

CO2 levels have risen over the past 12 years while, temperatures have dropped over the past 12 years. A sane or impartial person would conclude that CO2 levels and temperatures aren't linked. You keep going on with your "EVER, EVER" Al Gore impersonation.

[fredinator]

CO2 levels are higher than they EVER, EVER have been. Ever. In recorded history.

The polar ice caps have never melted since earth became temperate. They will be gone in ten years.

These are facts. Coincidence? Personally, I don't think so.

CO2 levels have risen over the past 12 years while, temperatures have dropped over the past 12 years. A sane or impartial person would conclude that CO2 levels and temperatures aren't linked. You keep going on with your "EVER, EVER" Al Gore impersonation.

UCLA Researcher Finds CO2 at Highest Levels in 15 Million Years

You would have to go back at least 15 million years to find carbon dioxide levels on Earth as high as they are today, UCLA chemist Aradhna Tripati and colleagues report Oct. 8 in the online edition of the journal Science.

So typical and creepy, you left off the rest of the article from what you googled and pasted, FF:

"A slightly shocking finding," Tripati said, "is that the only time in the last 20 million years that we find evidence for carbon dioxide levels similar to the modern level of 387 parts per million was 15 to 20 million years ago, when the planet was dramatically different."

Levels of carbon dioxide have varied only between 180 and 300 parts per million over the last 800,000 years — until recent decades, said Tripati, who is also a member of UCLA's Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics. It has been known that modern-day levels of carbon dioxide are unprecedented over the last 800,000 years, but the finding that modern levels have not been reached in the last 15 million years is new.

Prior to the Industrial Revolution of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the carbon dioxide level was about 280 parts per million, Tripati said. That figure had changed very little over the previous 1,000 years. But since the Industrial Revolution, the carbon dioxide level has been rising and is likely to soar unless action is taken to reverse the trend, Tripati said."

Paste the whole thing, FF; pure propaganda, misinformation and distortion--you should be ashamed.

[Jana]

CO2 levels are higher than they EVER, EVER have been. Ever. In recorded history.

The polar ice caps have never melted since earth became temperate. They will be gone in ten years.

These are facts. Coincidence? Personally, I don't think so.

CO2 levels have risen over the past 12 years while, temperatures have dropped over the past 12 years. A sane or impartial person would conclude that CO2 levels and temperatures aren't linked. You keep going on with your "EVER, EVER" Al Gore impersonation.

UCLA Researcher Finds CO2 at Highest Levels in 15 Million Years

You would have to go back at least 15 million years to find carbon dioxide levels on Earth as high as they are today, UCLA chemist Aradhna Tripati and colleagues report Oct. 8 in the online edition of the journal Science.

So typical and creepy, you left off the rest of the article from what you googled and pasted, FF:

"A slightly shocking finding," Tripati said, "is that the only time in the last 20 million years that we find evidence for carbon dioxide levels similar to the modern level of 387 parts per million was 15 to 20 million years ago, when the planet was dramatically different."

Levels of carbon dioxide have varied only between 180 and 300 parts per million over the last 800,000 years — until recent decades, said Tripati, who is also a member of UCLA's Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics. It has been known that modern-day levels of carbon dioxide are unprecedented over the last 800,000 years, but the finding that modern levels have not been reached in the last 15 million years is new.

Prior to the Industrial Revolution of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the carbon dioxide level was about 280 parts per million, Tripati said. That figure had changed very little over the previous 1,000 years. But since the Industrial Revolution, the carbon dioxide level has been rising and is likely to soar unless action is taken to reverse the trend, Tripati said."

Paste the whole thing, FF; pure propaganda, misinformation and distortion--you should be ashamed.

I thought FF was all about facts.

[Monker]

CO2 levels are higher than they EVER, EVER have been. Ever. In recorded history.

The polar ice caps have never melted since earth became temperate. They will be gone in ten years.

These are facts. Coincidence? Personally, I don't think so.

CO2 levels have risen over the past 12 years while, temperatures have dropped over the past 12 years. A sane or impartial person would conclude that CO2 levels and temperatures aren't linked. You keep going on with your "EVER, EVER" Al Gore impersonation.

Thank you for proving an article that 7 pasted here a while back. To sum things up it said that people who believe the planet is cooling only go back to 1996 and compare levels since then. The truth is that 1996 was an unusualy warm year so of course the temps are going to look as if they are falling. But, if you put things in perspective and look at the long term, you can see that the trend is still that the planet is warming.

Perhaps a sane and impartial person would look at the entire record and put things into perspective, instead of being selective of their data which supports their opinions and agenda.

[Monker]

So now we have 2 Congressmen requesting "Sealed Documents" , One Senator starting a Congressional Investigation, and a Major State University commencing an inquirey into one of their Professors actions...Is that right? Yes I think it is!

Evidently I'm not the only one who has been spread misinformation to and taken it out of context. How intellectually dis-honest of these Senators, Congressmen and University Presidents to fall for such propoganda. Shit, Monker, get on the phone and call these guys and set them straight pronto.

So what? Both of these guys are climate critics jumping on a bandwagon that supports their agenda. All it proves is that they are politicians playing political games...no different then you pointing to people resigning their seats in Australia. Perhaps these guys will resign in protest, too. It won't hurt my feelings any.

[Monker]

As for the CO2 levels, they say cow and pet farts add to a great deal of our problems.....

Again, that is also not true. They produce methane, not CO2. You can't smell CO2.

And yes the earth goes through cycles.

Yeah, the 30yr cycle is what has been quoted here. Then, those same people say that 30yrs ago we were talking about an ice-age. If we are in some type of cycle, show it to me. Show me a cycle of melt in Glacier National park and people saying there would be no glaciers. Show me a cycle where huge shelfs of ice were breaking away from the poles because of the warming of the Earth.

[Monker]

First of all, saying 'the part Mann deleted' is a LIE. Second what I already posted explains this:

What you posted below is the tree-ring data which is INCORRECT after 1960. Therefore, they used the 'trick' of using 'real' temps to 'hide' the 'decline' of what the tree-ring data shows.

So, you tell me, Myth Maker. What is wrong with using REAL TEMPS in their reports...rather then the INCORRECT data in the graph below?

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

One other thing. I'm getting beat up over hacked e-mails never meant to see the light of day, maybe taken out of context blah blah blah. What also was released were documents and charts....I've failed in my mission here by just posting e-mails. Remember the e-mail where they talked about "hiding the decline" in temperatures? Well guess what, here is the CRU's own chart which was released in the dump....NOTE the red at the end, that's the part Mann deleted to "hide the decline" in the IPCC reports in 2001 and in 2007.

[Monker]

Founder of The Weather Channel, John Coleman, concerning Global Warming: It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus. Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, and the Democratic Political Party. . And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam.

So what? Again, you quote somebody who has been a vocal critique of this for years.

[Monker]

Holy crap.

This stuff is written on FORTRAN. Geez.

Climategate denial foundering on army of Davids

By: Glenn Harlan Reynolds
Sunday Reflections Contributor

November 29, 2009

Last week a hacker -- or, perhaps more likely, an inside "whistleblower" -- leaked huge amounts of data from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in Britain. The leaks demonstrated that many "insider" scientists were conspiring to block publication of dissenting views in peer-reviewed journals, while suggesting that there was data-fudging, and deliberate evasion of Freedom Of Information requests, perhaps even including deliberate destruction of data.

Worse still, the computer models themselves appear to be jerry-rigged and deeply flawed. As Declan McCullagh reported on the CBS News Web site, independent programmers were appalled:

"As the leaked messages, and especially the HARRY_READ_ME.txt

"One programmer

"Programmer-written comments inserted into CRU's Fortran code have drawn fire as well. The file briffa_sep98_d.pro says: 'Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!' and 'APPLY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION.' Another, quantify_tsdcal.pro , says: 'Low pass filtering at century and longer time scales never gets rid of the trend - so eventually I start to scale down the 120-yr low pass time series to mimic the effect of removing/adding longer time scales!'"

None of this inspires confidence. As Megan McArdle noted on the Atlantic Monthly's Web site: "The IPCC report, which is the most widely relied upon in policy circles, uses this model to estimate the costs of global warming. If those costs are unreliable, then any cost-benefit analysis is totally worthless. Obviously, this also casts their reluctance to conform with FOI requests in a slightly different light."

Yes, they're acting as if they've got something to hide. But the establishment's response has been to ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

Climate czar Carol Browner responded: "I'm sticking with the 2,500 scientists. These people have been studying this issue for a very long time and agree this problem is real."

The problem is that the "2,500 scientists" she refers to were relying on data and models that, it now appears, may have been fake. Garbage in, garbage out. Plenty of scientists believed in Piltdown Man, too, for a while.

Big media are downplaying the problem too -- while Declan McCullagh has done great reporting on CBS's Web site, the network's broadcast coverage has been quite different. Likewise, the New York Times and Washington Post, while covering the matter, have downplayed its significance.

It seems clear that the Obama administration, and the folks in traditional media, think this is a story better ignored.

It won't work. While Big Media folks ignore the story, the alternative media are all over it.

From blogs, to talk radio, to Facebook and Twitter -- and, of course, the Obama administration's bete noire, Fox News -- this story is sweeping the nation and the world (it has already provoked resignations in Australia). With the data made available online, individuals and groups continue to search through the records and find new nuggets of information.

Polls have shown growing public skepticism, both in the United States and abroad, even before the Climategate revelations. That is now likely to grow.

For politicians, hitching their wagon to the carbon-control star was already an iffy proposition given widespread economic problems and public skepticism. In light of the Climategate revelations, many of them are likely to view it as something closer to suicide.

My prediction: The Copenhagen global warming conference will feature a lot of pretty words and promises, and no admission that things have changed. But we'll see little or no actual movement, as politicians around the world realize that there's no percentage in pushing these programs on an increasingly wary public.

[7 Wishes]

Copying and pasting articles written by far-right American and British neo-cons who utilize conjecture ("might be" and "could have") hardly constitutes "proof," Bullshit Finder. Keep digging.

[RossValoryRocks]

Copying and pasting articles written by far-right American and British neo-cons who utilize conjecture ("might be" and "could have") hardly constitutes "proof," Bullshit Finder. Keep digging.

Why don't you come up with something to counter his assertions then??? Hmmmm????

I know why, because you can't.

So instead you attack FactFinder for digging up information. Have you even read the articles he posts from all the way through? Probably not.

I have really enjoyed FactFinder posting all this stuff and you, Monker, TNC etc attacking HIM instead of the information he posts, because it shows you have nothing to refute him with. It also shows you are nothing but stooges of the far left and don't the have the capacity for critical thinking.

It's been shown that these guys made shit up to back their agenda, wait isn't that what you villified Bush and Company for? Oh yeah, but you don't agree with them. But you agree, even though it has come to light you have been lead by the nose and lied to. So its ok for these guys to lie because you want to believe, you need to believe or whatever that man is causing global warming.

Hell you even went the wrong way with the CO2 levels stuff, FF was trying to show you that even with such high CO2 levels that the warming hasn't happened in the last 11 years, once you throw out the bogus data of course.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I have really enjoyed FactFinder posting all this stuff and you, Monker, TNC etc attacking HIM instead of the information he posts, because it shows you have nothing to refute him with. It also shows you are nothing but stooges of the far left and don't the have the capacity for critical thinking.

Actually, I politely refrained from commenting because I have not kept up with the issue as well as I should have.
Plenty of articles are favorited, and when I have a chance I'll take a look.
I said the same thing last year to resident global warming critic, DavePC.

[RossValoryRocks]

I have really enjoyed FactFinder posting all this stuff and you, Monker, TNC etc attacking HIM instead of the information he posts, because it shows you have nothing to refute him with. It also shows you are nothing but stooges of the far left and don't the have the capacity for critical thinking.

Actually, I politely refrained from commenting because I have not kept up with the issue as well as I should have.
Plenty of articles are favorited, and when I have a chance I'll take a look.
I said the same thing last year to resident global warming critic, DavePC.

Then good on ya. Reading these articles has been enlightening about how people make shit up to fit their desires. Gives me greater insight into what Bush and Company did in the lead up to invading Iraq.

[Monker]

I have really enjoyed FactFinder posting all this stuff and you, Monker, TNC etc attacking HIM instead of the information he posts, because it shows you have nothing to refute him with. It also shows you are nothing but stooges of the far left and don't the have the capacity for critical thinking.

Bullshit. I went directly after the Email farce with the facts - HE HAS NO REPLY other then to repeat the out of context Email.

It's been shown that these guys made shit up to back their agenda

Wrong. It's been shown that Email was cut and edited to appear that way but when put in context it's just a bunch of out of context political BS. That is the only reason I came on here and start replying to Myth Maker's BS - because it is soooo obviously BS.

So its ok for these guys to lie because you want to believe, you need to believe or whatever that man is causing global warming.

The only lie being 'reported' (ie: cut and pasted from radical minds) here is that there is some scientific conspiracy. It's just not true, no matter how many hand jobs Myth Maker does with his computer.

Hell you even went the wrong way with the CO2 levels stuff, FF was trying to show you that even with such high CO2 levels that the warming hasn't happened in the last 11 years, once you throw out the bogus data of course.

And, again, that point proves an article that 7 posted that you fools take the warmest year on record and say that there has been a 'cooling trend' since then. But, when you look at the bigger picture and ALL of the data, it just isn't true.

[Monker]

I have really enjoyed FactFinder posting all this stuff and you, Monker, TNC etc attacking HIM instead of the information he posts, because it shows you have nothing to refute him with. It also shows you are nothing but stooges of the far left and don't the have the capacity for critical thinking.

Actually, I politely refrained from commenting because I have not kept up with the issue as well as I should have.
Plenty of articles are favorited, and when I have a chance I'll take a look.
I said the same thing last year to resident global warming critic, DavePC.

Then good on ya. Reading these articles has been enlightening about how people make shit up to fit their desires. Gives me greater insight into what Bush and Company did in the lead up to invading Iraq.

Good job...you go about pointing fingers and making personal comments on a thread that you haven't even read. I posted plenty of counter-points, all have been ignored by Myth Maker...he doesn't have an original thought in his head. TNC is right, I don't remember him making a single post here.

Please actually read the thread before you start throwing about the same old BS statements and generalizations.

[RossValoryRocks]

I have really enjoyed FactFinder posting all this stuff and you, Monker, TNC etc attacking HIM instead of the information he posts, because it shows you have nothing to refute him with. It also shows you are nothing but stooges of the far left and don't the have the capacity for critical thinking.

Actually, I politely refrained from commenting because I have not kept up with the issue as well as I should have.
Plenty of articles are favorited, and when I have a chance I'll take a look.
I said the same thing last year to resident global warming critic, DavePC.

Then good on ya. Reading these articles has been enlightening about how people make shit up to fit their desires. Gives me greater insight into what Bush and Company did in the lead up to invading Iraq.

Good job...you go about pointing fingers and making personal comments on a thread that you haven't even read. I posted plenty of counter-points, all have been ignored by Myth Maker...he doesn't have an original thought in his head. TNC is right, I don't remember him making a single post here.

Please actually read the thread before you start throwing about the same old BS statements and generalizations.

I read the entire thread...and as usual you have nothing of substance to offer, so I didn't bother commenting on anything you post. 7 usually has well thought out posts, even when he is off in liberal loonie land, but his last post that I commented on was just a personal attack on FactFinder.

I have given up quoting sources to idiots like you, all we get is, "Its a biased source" and more personal attacks. You refuted nothing, you post links to articles that have been debunked by the very stunning manipulation of data that has been foisted off on us as unbiased science.

I respect 7, hell I even sometimes respect TNC, you on the other hand are a worthless piece of shit who just needs to have your existance removed from the planet before you can contaminate it further.

[Ehwmatt]

I respect 7, hell I even sometimes respect TNC, you on the other hand are a worthless piece of shit who just needs to have your existance removed from the planet before you can contaminate it further.

This is vintage MR material here.

[7 Wishes]

I don't deny something is amiss. The severity / degree remains to be seen.

However, there has been substantive refutation of alleged "facts" as well as sources. So now it becomes a matter of subjective interpretation. And that is why partisan politics have made sorting out issues like this close to impossible.

[Monker]

I read the entire thread...and as usual you have nothing of substance to offer, so I didn't bother commenting on anything you post.

Which is a lie. I made 'substanate' posts that are not attacks at all. The fact is they are just ignored.

I have given up quoting sources to idiots like you, all we get is, "Its a biased source" and more personal attacks. You refuted nothing, you post links to articles that have been debunked by the very stunning manipulation of data that has been foisted off on us as unbiased science.

When Myth Maker does a copy/paste of some article written by somebody who has been a critic of climate change for years and years, and offers nothing other then the article...which basicaly says that climate change is a myth, then it gets a 'so what' from me. It means. It adds nothing. All it is is an article repeating the same things he has repeated for years. Get over it.

And, I didn't ask for anybody to 'quote sources'. I said that Myth Maker does not have an original thought in his head. He doesn't. All he does is copy and paste other people's 'orignal' thoughts.

I respect 7, hell I even sometimes respect TNC, you on the other hand are a worthless piece of shit who just needs to have your existance removed from the planet before you can contaminate it further.

So, in other words...you have nothing to offer except that which you critiqed me for (which was a lie)...personal attacks and insults. Hypocrit.