R.I.P. Global Warming...The Convenient Truth...it's not hot!

[Monker]

I don't deny something is amiss. The severity / degree remains to be seen.

However, there has been substantive refutation of alleged "facts" as well as sources. So now it becomes a matter of subjective interpretation. And that is why partisan politics have made sorting out issues like this close to impossible.

Exactly. They just don't like the fact that this has been hyped by conservatives as the 'scam of the century'...when it is obviously NOT. They don't like the fact that 'their side' has been caught in exageration and lies...and was brought about by illegal activities.

[Monker]

Myth Maker...he doesn't have an original thought in his head.

They deleted the fucking data my friend. What else does one need to know?

So, you have gone from data being manipulated and charts that prove things were changed, both of which I have answered and shown to have been bullshit...to 'deleted data' as your proof. So, I guess I'm supposed to do as YOUR title states and find the 'real' facts as to what you are talking about.

[RossValoryRocks]

So, in other words...you have nothing to offer except that which you critiqed me for (which was a lie)...personal attacks and insults. Hypocrit.

I have given up being civil with you. You are nothing but a worthless, third rate version of Keith Olbermann...a blow hard with an agenda and no facts to substantiate the claim. Hell you make Limbaugh look like the poster child for good reporting.

Oh and pray we NEVER meet in person.

[larryfromnextdoor]

Oh and pray we NEVER meet in person.

my count is at 4 that you want to beat up!

[RossValoryRocks]

Oh and pray we NEVER meet in person.

my count is at 4 that you want to beat up!

5...but I gave Deano a pass, because he is nothing like how he acts here in real life.

[hoagiepete]

Don't know about the emails and what they prove or disprove.

All I can say is that you are all kidding yourself if you think all these academians doing research do not consider the almighty $$ when determing their outcomes. Everything thing they do is for more research money.

I worked in an industry that had battling segments. Each segment hired researchers from universities to prove their points, ironically from two competing universities in the same state. I overheard an explanation of one of the baffoon professors that clearly indicated they were manipulating the tests to provide the results their funding sponsor needed to have. It was blatant. I have since seen it several times. I have no reason to make this up. Just saying, be wary of "experts" and their research and their motives behind it.

[Monker]

So, in other words...you have nothing to offer except that which you critiqed me for (which was a lie)...personal attacks and insults. Hypocrit.

I have given up being civil with you. You are nothing but a worthless, third rate version of Keith Olbermann...a blow hard with an agenda and no facts to substantiate the claim. Hell you make Limbaugh look like the poster child for good reporting.

Oh and pray we NEVER meet in person.

Oh, whatever. I really don't know what your problem is.

[Monker]

Oh and pray we NEVER meet in person.

my count is at 4 that you want to beat up!

5...but I gave Deano a pass, because he is nothing like how he acts here in real life.

Ah, and I am? LOL. I have not met a single person on this forum 'in real life'...and have no desire or plans to. So, you have no idea.

[Eric]

I have not met a single person on this forum 'in real life'...and have no desire or plans to.

Thank God!

[G.I.Jim]

I have not met a single person on this forum 'in real life'...and have no desire or plans to.

Thank God!

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

[quote="Fact Finder"]Phil Jones..the $22Million Dollar Global Warming Man of the Year!



he looks like friggin art garfunkel

[7 Wishes]

‘global climate change’ has now, at long last, been irrefutably exposed by the infamous CRU emails as a gigantic hoax and fraud

Are you serious? NOTHING has been "irrefutably exposed [sic] as a fraud". Good Lord, man. Don't circle the wagons when you only have one horse and the pilgrims have 100 shotguns.

[7 Wishes]

Inhofe is an impartial a source as the Druge Report, except he spews more bullshit. Try again.

[RossValoryRocks]

Inhofe is an impartial a source as the Druge Report, except he spews more bullshit. Try again.

Brotherman...are you NOT reading this stuff???

It is ALL over the news, except here in the USA for some reason.

Phil Jones is RESIGNING his position...you don't do that if you are on the up and up...Please man...look into this...I think you will be startled at what you find out.

[artist4perry]

There has NEVER been a hole in the ozone layer until now.

Must be a coincidence, eh, Lie Finder?

I beg to differ...........we heard about holes in the Ozone layer when I was in high school.........uh........that is why they developed the pump vs the aeresol cans.............the hair spray was causing a hole. So they said. Now don't go and tell me I had to give up my aqua net for nothing!

[7 Wishes]

I will admit there is a lot of evidence suggesting there was some pretty corrupt shit going on. What I would argue is that there are many other independent sources that have drawn the same conclusions (supporting global warming) based on separate observations and studies. Thanks for the links.

[Monker]

Well, all you guys who get your news from Jon Stewart, Colbert and South Park et al...Stewart takes a shot at ALGORE.

‘Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented!’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgPUpIBWGp8

[/quote]

Try again...this link doesn't work.

[Monker]

Well, all you guys who get your news from Jon Stewart, Colbert and South Park et al...Stewart takes a shot at ALGORE.

‘Poor Al Gore. Global warming completely debunked via the very Internet you invented!’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgPUpIBWGp8

Try again...this link doesn't work.[/quote]

Ah, guess I had to quote it to get it to work. Wondered if it was the entire thing....

After a bit of video of Inhofe declaring an end to Global Warning before the Email was even hacked...

"But that's the point. If you care about an issue and want to make it your life's work, don't cut corners! It's disheartening to those inclined to the scientific method and it's catnip to these guys who are gong to end up celebrating tonight, drunk, roaming the arctic circle, trying to skull-fuck polar bears! Which are quickly disapearing because of rising oceans caused now, apparently, by God's tears."

Please, stay away from the polar bears, Myth Maker.

[Monker]

Good. Anybody who hacks Email and makes it public like this should be in jail.

If it were YOUR Email that were hacked and put on display for public viewing, you would want a head to roll.

To me, it's not something that can be justified...and I have always felt that way.

Ok, if this isn't hilarious.....kill the messenger....where have I heard that before?

Sen. Boxer: ‘You call it Climategate — I Call it E-Mail-Theft-Gate’

http://www.breitbart.tv/sen-boxer-you-c ... heft-gate/




That woman is out of her fucking mind....good grief....

[Memorex]

And here’s the issue exactly Monker. I am like most level headed people that know that we should clean up emissions, look for alternative fuels, do our part to take care of our “footprint” – WITHIN REASON and behind truth.

The polar bears simply are not disappearing. They exist in numbers 5 times that of 25 years ago. In warm clients, they are expanding. Of the 20 spots you find them, only 2 have decreased in numbers and those are the places that have gotten cooler. But you have heard it enough times that you think it’s real.

This is why it is a big story to me. I don’t mind paying a little more for gas, driving a little less, using less plastic, and even paying a little more for my electricity – so long as scientists and governments are not trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

I think we all should look at this and realize that regardless of whether or not the earth is warming, or if we have CO2 issues, or if polar bears will someday decrease, we must hold our elected officials and global scientists to a level of truth that is irrefutable. It shocks me the level of politics and money involved in this science. It has corrupted it in many ways. If you dispute that, than you simply are not fair minded.

Tell me the truth, accept scientific facts that dispute yours, offer reasonable solutions that are not going to hurt the poor, and I will support any recommendation you give me.

This is a huge story because it shows the level of political stakes in a scientific issue. And they are hurting their own cause. That’s my opinion.

[Memorex]

Good. Anybody who hacks Email and makes it public like this should be in jail.

If it were YOUR Email that were hacked and put on display for public viewing, you would want a head to roll.

To me, it's not something that can be justified...and I have always felt that way.

Ok, if this isn't hilarious.....kill the messenger....where have I heard that before?

Sen. Boxer: ‘You call it Climategate — I Call it E-Mail-Theft-Gate’

http://www.breitbart.tv/sen-boxer-you-c ... heft-gate/




That woman is out of her fucking mind....good grief....

Any scientific data that the government has paid for, quoted, and cited as reasons to charge people more costs and taxes should be public. Example - WMD's, treatment of prisoners, etc. Freedom of information.

[Monker]

Good. Anybody who hacks Email and makes it public like this should be in jail.

If it were YOUR Email that were hacked and put on display for public viewing, you would want a head to roll.

To me, it's not something that can be justified...and I have always felt that way.

Ok, if this isn't hilarious.....kill the messenger....where have I heard that before?

Sen. Boxer: ‘You call it Climategate — I Call it E-Mail-Theft-Gate’

http://www.breitbart.tv/sen-boxer-you-c ... heft-gate/




That woman is out of her fucking mind....good grief....

Any scientific data that the government has paid for, quoted, and cited as reasons to charge people more costs and taxes should be public. Example - WMD's, treatment of prisoners, etc. Freedom of information.

"Scientific data" does not include Emails that somebody has to hack to retrieve.

[RossValoryRocks]

Good. Anybody who hacks Email and makes it public like this should be in jail.

If it were YOUR Email that were hacked and put on display for public viewing, you would want a head to roll.

To me, it's not something that can be justified...and I have always felt that way.

Ok, if this isn't hilarious.....kill the messenger....where have I heard that before?

Sen. Boxer: ‘You call it Climategate — I Call it E-Mail-Theft-Gate’

http://www.breitbart.tv/sen-boxer-you-c ... heft-gate/




That woman is out of her fucking mind....good grief....

Any scientific data that the government has paid for, quoted, and cited as reasons to charge people more costs and taxes should be public. Example - WMD's, treatment of prisoners, etc. Freedom of information.

"Scientific data" does not include Emails that somebody has to hack to retrieve.

So its OK that they commit OUT AND OUT FRAUD...as long as they don't get caught is what you are saying. If the government isn't doing its job by truly investigating these scientists then it is the job of the citizens to do it for them, which they did.

You aren't pissed that the emails are out there, you are pissed he got caught and in doing so blew up a belief. You know it, I know it, everyone here knows it you sanctimonious douche nozzle.

God I REALLY hope you are sterile so no poor kid is stuck with your genes.

[Memorex]

Fair enough about the emails - but what is the bigger crime? And why so down on a hacker and not the people that are actually being paid to present scientific fact? Again - these guys hurt the cause by doing what they have done. Believers and non-believers alike should be pissed. Again - people should be approaching this with fair minds to get the debate back on track.

How about not hiding data, but finding answers for things that you don't agree with? Just seems silly to get mad at a hacker.

Here's my concern. Let's say they pass cap and trade, get gas prices back up over $5, etc. I can afford it. I'm sure you can. But my sister can't. And some of my friends can't. They were really hurting when gas prices were up and I can't imagine if you double or trippled their electric bill how bad it would have been. That's why I care about getting it right. I don;t want my sister to spend one extra penny if the science is being manipulated. Does that make sense? That's all I'm saying.

[Monker]

So its OK that they commit OUT AND OUT FRAUD...

I don't think they did commit fraud. I think only the polar bear skull-fuckers who buy into conspiracy theories from timely hackers who are doing a disservice to the truth to further their own agenda would say this is fraud.

If the government isn't doing its job by truly investigating these scientists then it is the job of the citizens to do it for them, which they did.

Even if that is true...if they did it by illegal means, then they should be in jail.

You aren't pissed that the emails are out there, you are pissed he got caught and in doing so blew up a belief.

LOL...I'm not pissed about anything. Seems to me that the entire 'scandal of the century' is a huge joke.

God I REALLY hope you are sterile so no poor kid is stuck with your genes.

And, your thoughts on this should bother me because....?

[Monker]

Fair enough about the emails - but what is the bigger crime? And why so down on a hacker and not the people that are actually being paid to present scientific fact? Again - these guys hurt the cause by doing what they have done. Believers and non-believers alike should be pissed. Again - people should be approaching this with fair minds to get the debate back on track.

How about not hiding data, but finding answers for things that you don't agree with? Just seems silly to get mad at a hacker.

Here's my concern. Let's say they pass cap and trade, get gas prices back up over $5, etc. I can afford it. I'm sure you can. But my sister can't. And some of my friends can't. They were really hurting when gas prices were up and I can't imagine if you double or trippled their electric bill how bad it would have been. That's why I care about getting it right. I don;t want my sister to spend one extra penny if the science is being manipulated. Does that make sense? That's all I'm saying.

Those are two different issues.

So far the only 'real' point Myth Maker has made is about 'deleted data' from the 1980's. It just gets a big 'SO WHAT?' from me. I have seen NOTHING to prove some kinda huge conspiracy to 'hide the facts'. I see absolutely no 'fraud' at all. I'll agree with what Jon Stewart said that they were careless...in both the caring of the data and what they said in Email about their opposition...but that does not equate to fraud.

Again, it's a whole bunch of nothing to me. And, at the insistance of 'conservative' Republicans, we will end up spending millions of dallors in an inquire to find exactly what I posted above...and it will be a huge waste of time and money...all for politics.

The people on the other side of the 'climate' debate can't win it with the science, so they are making it political...that's just the way it is.

As far as 'cap and trade'. As I have said before, getting us away from our oil addiction is as much of a national security issue, or IMO even more, then an environmental issue. If it takes raising the gas tax to forcing $5/gallon gasoline, then that's what should happen. We should not allow so much of our economy to be under the influence of oil.

[Memorex]

Besides the deleted data and marginalizing critics, only two other things bother me. The thousands and thousands of scientists that disagree and the comments in the emails about there being no cooling for over ten years and how they hide it. There are specific comments about hiding data. That is fraud. Whether it disproves something or not, it's still an attempt to manipulate results. That's when I start to feel lied to.

If there wasn't so much money involved, I guess I would feel better. But it seems so many of the proponents are tied to companies that will benefit hugely by these changes.

[squirt1]

We have oil but the Dems want the votes of the enviromentalists, so we can't drill for much of our own oil. Today's technology is WAY better than 30 yrs ago. But wait, Russia is going to try to drill in the Artic and China to our south in the Guld and off Cuba. Wake up ! We do not have the tech yet to do w/o oil. Thank God we have a hundred yrs of natural gas.

[Monker]

I didn't see this post..

And here’s the issue exactly Monker. I am like most level headed people that know that we should clean up emissions, look for alternative fuels, do our part to take care of our “footprint” – WITHIN REASON and behind truth.

The polar bears simply are not disappearing. They exist in numbers 5 times that of 25 years ago. In warm clients, they are expanding. Of the 20 spots you find them, only 2 have decreased in numbers and those are the places that have gotten cooler. But you have heard it enough times that you think it’s real.

I didn't say the polar bear thing was true or not. But, the point is real enough, and it's funny.

This is why it is a big story to me. I don’t mind paying a little more for gas, driving a little less, using less plastic, and even paying a little more for my electricity – so long as scientists and governments are not trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

I think we all should look at this and realize that regardless of whether or not the earth is warming, or if we have CO2 issues, or if polar bears will someday decrease, we must hold our elected officials and global scientists to a level of truth that is irrefutable. It shocks me the level of politics and money involved in this science. It has corrupted it in many ways. If you dispute that, than you simply are not fair minded.

Tell me the truth, accept scientific facts that dispute yours, offer reasonable solutions that are not going to hurt the poor, and I will support any recommendation you give me.

This is a huge story because it shows the level of political stakes in a scientific issue. And they are hurting their own cause. That’s my opinion.

I've given a couple examples in the past in this forum. I'm huge believer that there should be government grants and low/no interest loans to companies like Tesla Motors who are innovative and coming up with alternative fuel cars. I also believe in the rebates to consumers who purchase those products. I also believe the government should provide contracts to replace any government owned automobile with alternative fuel cars. The military should also favor their contracts to get off their oil binge...since they use a HUGE amount of oil. All of this inspires innovation and will make its way into the consumer market. That is what we need - to change how our country works. Almost everything we do uses oil in some way...You go to the grocery store for some milk. It's not just YOUR car that burned some oil...but the truck that moved the milk from the farmer to the warehouse, and from the warehouse to the store. Somehow ALL of that needs to change...and it's not just a matter of changing the type of light-bulb you are using.

[Monker]

Besides the deleted data and marginalizing critics, only two other things bother me. The thousands and thousands of scientists that disagree and the comments in the emails about there being no cooling for over ten years and how they hide it. There are specific comments about hiding data. That is fraud. Whether it disproves something or not, it's still an attempt to manipulate results. That's when I start to feel lied to.

If there wasn't so much money involved, I guess I would feel better. But it seems so many of the proponents are tied to companies that will benefit hugely by these changes.

And that is the 'hide the declune' by using a 'trick'....which I already explained several times in back posts. The 'decline' is the FACT that tree ring data, for whatever reason, changes in the 1960's so the results are inconsistent and are 'too low'. That is an accepted fact. To 'hide that decline', they used REAL TEMPS instead, as a neat 'treat' to show an accurate graph. So, explain to me how it is fraud to make such a correction?