Which Album Better - Trial By Fire or Arrival

[Ehwmatt]

Arrival.

Could have done without a few of the ballads, but overall, a great disc.

And speaking of Arrival, here is an obscure (and very good) cover of "All The Way":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMMJuRzJcCs

ugh... don't care for the instrumentation or that guy's voice. He's strained and pitchy.

[Enigma869]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

[YoungJRNY]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

When You Love A Woman could be Journey's best work in my opinion. As far as both records, WYLAW aside, I'd give the knod to Arrival. Arrival has a different take, a different sound, and the flow is perfectly executed (ballads aside) I think Journey did a helluva job with their first CD without Perry. They delivered on all cylinders. Too bad the next two were atrocious.

[Enigma869]

My ratings from 1 to 10

"When You Love a Woman" - 10 - Beautiful.. Perry, Cain and Schon shine on this one.

Agreed. It's one of the best songs in the entire Journey catalog. Next to "Faithfully", which I think is the greatest ballad ever written, "When You Love a Woman" is right there.

"All the Way" - 10 - One of my favorite Journey Ballads.

This song couldn't be more gay if it tried. Not close to a 10 in my opinion. Fuck, I'm not sure I'd give it a 1. I'd say it's neck and neck with the disgustingly vile "Open Arms" for a Mary Poppins, gayville song.

"With Your Love" - 9- Perfect Wedding song.

I agree with you so much on this one that it actually was my wedding song!

[YoungJRNY]

My ratings from 1 to 10

"When You Love a Woman" - 10 - Beautiful.. Perry, Cain and Schon shine on this one.

Agreed. It's one of the best songs in the entire Journey catalog. Next to "Faithfully", which I think is the greatest ballad ever written, "When You Love a Woman" is right there.

"All the Way" - 10 - One of my favorite Journey Ballads.

This song couldn't be more gay if it tried. Not close to a 10 in my opinion. Fuck, I'm not sure I'd give it a 1. I'd say it's neck and neck with the disgustingly vile "Open Arms" for a Mary Poppins, gayville song.

"With Your Love" - 9- Perfect Wedding song.

I agree with you so much on this one that it actually was my wedding song!

The first time my girl heard it, she automatically turned to me and said "WEDDING SONG!" Perfect choice.

[Jana]

My ratings from 1 to 10

"When You Love a Woman" - 10 - Beautiful.. Perry, Cain and Schon shine on this one.

Agreed. It's one of the best songs in the entire Journey catalog. [b] Next to "Faithfully", which I think is the greatest ballad ever written, "When You Love a Woman" is right there.!

I agree. Faithfully is the best ballad ever written. Perfection.

[kgdjpubs]

My ratings from 1 to 10

"When You Love a Woman" - 10 - Beautiful.. Perry, Cain and Schon shine on this one.

Agreed. It's one of the best songs in the entire Journey catalog. Next to "Faithfully", which I think is the greatest ballad ever written, "When You Love a Woman" is right there.

See, I always thought WYLAW was pretty darn syrupy. Give me something with depth and some good lyrics like Livin to Do any day...

[kgdjpubs]

I'm somewhere in the middle. TBF probably has a better production, and much better lyrics, but the cd itself is WAY too long, and a lot of the songs sound like Journey trying to be Journey, as opposed to just being Journey. That kind of thing happens a lot on reunion albums, so it's not really surprising. Message of Love is the perfect example. It's trying really hard to be a great Journey song, and it just doesn't quite get it.

Arrival is overlong, production at times is good, at times rushed, and generally has the vocals buried. Some of the songs are Journey-by-the-numbers, but like TBF, they take some chances. 2nd album together (basically), and they actually sound like Journey.

Cut both albums down to about 10 songs each, and I'll give Arrlval an edge, although a slight one.

[Arkansas]

TBF has a much better sonic to it...better overall production, crisper, more of a powdery feel without sounding too thin...yet monstrous in other spots. Arrival was over-produced and individual sonics were punchy at times, which killed certain songs...while some songs were too processed & compressed/encapsulated.

But comparing songs is really apples to oranges. They're all good, just two very different albums.
With a scoring cap of a hundred each, TBF over Arrival, 94-78.

In many ways, 'Its Just the Rain' takes down Arrival on its own.



later~

And yes, a resounding YES, 'When You Love a Woman' does it too.
I love SA Journey, but WYLAW is as good as Journey gets...a definite peer of 'Faithfully'.


later~

[wastingbeerz]

Arrival, without question. Much stronger album.

[annie89509]

Haha, TBF of course... don't get me started, I'm going to sound like a broken record . To me, TBF is their masterpiece. Not their best album, of course, and not everybody's cup of tea... but an AC masterpiece. Every song has a different beat...touches different senses...topped by the classic WYLAW. I agree with the assessment that this is their 2nd best ballad ever...after Faithfully. True, the album may be too long....weeding out a few of the ballads (yes, slow songs without chorus tend to conjure up as Perry solo) may make it more appealing to some Journey purists.

Arrival, too, is a long album full of ballads, so I don't get the "more rocking" argument (that has been said in the past). Perhaps, I am a Perry purist, but the songs listed by posters as favorites just don't resonant with me...with the exception of Higher Place...I will rank up there as a great Journey song. The rest are mostly catchy (Journey) good...not memorable. It is Neal's guitar playing that stood out on this album, and I believe it's the vocal that makes a song memorable. SA gave it his all, I'm sure; but his vocals seemed back in the mix (to this untrained ear)...therefore, sounded thin--lacking power. After the first 5 or so, I just don't hear much variety in the songs.

[journey361]

SP and Journey did seem to try and reach into a magic HAT to pull off a magic come-back album in the TBF project. If you break down the best Journey albums, it would have to be near the bottom but not because it's a bad album, its because they all were getting much older and as Brett Farve simply put it "Maybe my last chance at a superbowl". SP's vocals were not ready for laying those tracks down at the time. His voice seemed to need rest which can happen to anyone. That cd was after FTLOSM and he struggled vocally but as i have stated many times, SP and Journey's worst days, were far better than alot of groups best days. Plain and simple.

[Jana]

Haha, TBF of course... don't get me started, I'm going to sound like a broken record . To me, TBF is their masterpiece. Not their best album, of course, and not everybody's cup of tea... but an AC masterpiece. Every song has a different beat...touches different senses...topped by the classic WYLAW. I agree with the assessment that this is their 2nd best ballad ever...after Faithfully. True, the album may be too long....weeding out a few of the ballads (yes, slow songs without chorus tend to conjure up as Perry solo) may make it more appealing to some Journey purists.

Arrival, too, is a long album full of ballads, so I don't get the "more rocking" argument (that has been said in the past). Perhaps, I am a Perry purist, but the songs listed by posters as favorites just don't resonant with me...with the exception of Higher Place...I will rank up there as a great Journey song. The rest are mostly catchy (Journey) good...not memorable. It is Neal's guitar playing that stood out on this album, and I believe it's the vocal that makes a song memorable. SA gave it his all, I'm sure; but his vocals seemed back in the mix (to this untrained ear)...therefore, sounded thin--lacking power. After the first 5 or so, I just don't hear much variety in the songs.

Wow, we all see things differently. I agree it took me a few times to come to love Arrival b/c it wasn't the stunning vocals, and Augeri's vocals were deeper in the mix, so it was more, to me, his voice complimenting the melody, not lacking power, just a smooth soulful delivery of the song, not oversinging. I found Arrival to be a really unique album for Journey, different from anything they had done, very atmospheric songs, and Neal's guitar work was some of his best, I agree, as far as soulful melodic playing, and great keyboard melodies. Deen was great on Arrival. A very moody, melodic album that bar a couple songs that could have been left off is a beautiful album I love.

As far as ballads, on Arrival I find them to be more of a rock band sounding ballad, and except for gorgeous songs like Still She Cries, WYLAW, It's Just the Rain, TBF, etc, it doesn't sound like rock band ballads on TBF. It sounds like pop solo Perry ballads with thin upper vocals, like Forever in Blue.
And b/c of placement of the songs on TBF the whole second half is like taking a Prozac. They really could have done a better job of song placement regarding the flow of the songs.

[Glenn]

I'm voting for Arrival although I think it's about 3 songs (ballads) to long.

TBF has moments but overall I'd listen to more songs from Arrival.

[steveo777]

Arrival....is technically a better album, but does not have the voice. So I have to give it to TBF.

[annie89509]

Wow, we all see things differently. I agree it took me a few times to come to love Arrival b/c it wasn't the stunning vocals, and Augeri's vocals were deeper in the mix, so it was more, to me, his voice complimenting the melody, not lacking power, just a smooth soulful delivery of the song, not oversinging. I found Arrival to be a really unique album for Journey, different from anything they had done, very atmospheric songs, and Neal's guitar work was some of his best, I agree, as far as soulful melodic playing, and great keyboard melodies. Deen was great on Arrival. A very moody, melodic album that bar a couple songs that could have been left off is a beautiful album I love.

As far as ballads, on Arrival I find them to be more of a rock band sounding ballad, and except for gorgeous songs like Still She Cries, WYLAW, It's Just the Rain, TBF, etc, it doesn't sound like rock band ballads on TBF. It sounds like pop solo Perry ballads with thin upper vocals, like Forever in Blue.
And b/c of placement of the songs on TBF the whole second half is like taking a Prozac. They really could have done a better job of song placement regarding the flow of the songs.

See ...I love the way Steve sang FIB...he's got the soft, sexy voice going on there, with a little rasp thrown in. When I "first"discovered Steve Perry singing, he sounded a lot like Rod Stewart to me (one of my all-time favorites). As for placement of songs....true, they seemed to have front-loaded all the high energy songs....but, Jana, you said you love IJTR and TBF, and these are the last 2 on the album (not counting the hidden tracks). Now, I'm sure you'd want to stay alert for these 2 songs, don't you ?

I just love, love, love, love (paraphrasing WYLAW) this entire album from start to finish, and I don't have any issues with how the songs are spread out. I think they wanted to end exactly the way they had it laid out...sobering and melancholy. The songs do seem like a mature Journey, getting together to record after a long separation...everyone older. Ironically, my least favorite is One More... only because Steve seemed to be straining to keep up with the music in this song. Not one of his outstanding performances, for sure...I do believe, one of the few, if ever, times that Steve got outshined by his bandmates. Neal, especially, was outstanding on this song. As well as Smitty and Jon and Ross. And I'm not even a musician...just know good music when I hear it .

I

[Jana]

Wow, we all see things differently. I agree it took me a few times to come to love Arrival b/c it wasn't the stunning vocals, and Augeri's vocals were deeper in the mix, so it was more, to me, his voice complimenting the melody, not lacking power, just a smooth soulful delivery of the song, not oversinging. I found Arrival to be a really unique album for Journey, different from anything they had done, very atmospheric songs, and Neal's guitar work was some of his best, I agree, as far as soulful melodic playing, and great keyboard melodies. Deen was great on Arrival. A very moody, melodic album that bar a couple songs that could have been left off is a beautiful album I love.

As far as ballads, on Arrival I find them to be more of a rock band sounding ballad, and except for gorgeous songs like Still She Cries, WYLAW, It's Just the Rain, TBF, etc, it doesn't sound like rock band ballads on TBF. It sounds like pop solo Perry ballads with thin upper vocals, like Forever in Blue.
And b/c of placement of the songs on TBF the whole second half is like taking a Prozac. They really could have done a better job of song placement regarding the flow of the songs.

See ...I love the way Steve sang FIB...he's got the soft, sexy voice going on there, with a little rasp thrown in. When I "first"discovered Steve Perry singing, he sounded a lot like Rod Stewart to me (one of my all-time favorites). As for placement of songs....true, they seemed to have front-loaded all the high energy songs....but, Jana, you said you love IJTR and TBF, and these are the last 2 on the album (not counting the hidden tracks). Now, I'm sure you'd want to stay alert for these 2 songs, don't you ?

I just love, love, love, love (paraphrasing WYLAW) this entire album from start to finish, and I don't have any issues with how the songs are spread out. I think they wanted to end exactly the way they had it laid out...sobering and melancholy. The songs do seem like a mature Journey, getting together to record after a long separation...everyone older. Ironically, my least favorite is One More... only because Steve seemed to be straining to keep up with the music in this song. Not one of his outstanding performances, for sure...I do believe, one of the few, if ever, times that Steve got outshined by his bandmates. Neal, especially, was outstanding on this song. As well as Smitty and Jon and Ross. And I'm not even a musician...just know good music when I hear it .

I

Well, Anne, actually, I could accept TBF for what it was and probably enjoy it on a rainy day when I'm zoning out for nice mellow music, but like I said earlier, on many songs, unfortunately, Steve's voice had a very hollow sound in the high range and it bothered my ears. I have tried to listen to the album all the way through and that just bothers me on quite a few songs. I notice it. I wish I didn't. So for that reason it will never be an album I listen to much.

[Don]

Rated best to worse.

[annie89509]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

[Jana]

Rated best to worse.

That is too funny.

[Jana]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

At least I'm still awake by the end of Arrival.

[annie89509]

Rated best to worse.

GB, that is not funny
And, to think, you used to be my friend

[WykkedSensation]

TBF...cuz Perry is on the thing.

Arrival is a great Journey release though, and definately the best non Perry release.

[Michigan Girl]

Rated best to worse.

Seriously, G~boy?!?!?

[slucero]

...whichever album Perry sang on...

[JohnH]

Arrival. Too many slow songs, Perry's shredded voice and the tuning down bother me on TBF. I don't think I played it much when I got it. Some of the material, of course- is outstanding but it just kind of drags me down. The bottom line with TBF is that most of the songwriting is subpar. Arrival gets played alot and I love singing along to it.

[journeyrock]

Haha, TBF of course... don't get me started, I'm going to sound like a broken record . To me, TBF is their masterpiece. Not their best album, of course, and not everybody's cup of tea... but an AC masterpiece. Every song has a different beat...touches different senses...topped by the classic WYLAW. I agree with the assessment that this is their 2nd best ballad ever...after Faithfully. True, the album may be too long....weeding out a few of the ballads (yes, slow songs without chorus tend to conjure up as Perry solo) may make it more appealing to some Journey purists.

Arrival, too, is a long album full of ballads, so I don't get the "more rocking" argument (that has been said in the past). Perhaps, I am a Perry purist, but the songs listed by posters as favorites just don't resonant with me...with the exception of Higher Place...I will rank up there as a great Journey song. The rest are mostly catchy (Journey) good...not memorable. It is Neal's guitar playing that stood out on this album, and I believe it's the vocal that makes a song memorable. SA gave it his all, I'm sure; but his vocals seemed back in the mix (to this untrained ear)...therefore, sounded thin--lacking power. After the first 5 or so, I just don't hear much variety in the songs.

I couldn't agree more. TBF all the way!

[fredinator]

I love both of these albums in different ways so can't choose... Did fire up We Will Meet Again (one of my all-time favorites) and was thinking: I watched the History Channel of The Beatles On Record and was astounded once again by all of them but in particular George H. and the sitar on some of those great songs; does anyone know if Neal knows how to play it? It almost sounds like a sitar on We Will Meet Again but I think it's just Neal's guitar... There really is something mystical-sounding to a sitar and even to We Will Meet Again to me anyway... Sorry if this post is all over the place..

"On my heart it's written--we will meet again" in 2010 Neal

[Tracie555]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

I totally agree with you=0) There are some amazing songs on Arrival. I remember falling in love with several of the lyrics, but wishing Steve Perry would have been singing them=0(

[MjolnirRocks]

I've always thought that ARRIVAL was a very good album. Unfortunately it was never given a chance by a lot of people during that era of Journey. TRAIL BY FIRE was a pretty good album too...It's too bad that I can't pick both because they both had so much to bring in their own little way. When both these albums came out during their respective times, I couldn't get enough of them...but this is a pick and choose type of thread so I will give the slight edge to TRAIL BY FIRE.