Which Album Better - Trial By Fire or Arrival

[wastingbeerz]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

Um... TBF is maybe 5 minutes shorter than Arrival.

In fact, I just looked both albums up on wikipedia:

TBF: 67:58
Arrival: 73:50

A difference of 5:52.

And for me, the longer the album, the better. Too long is never an issue as long as it's a good album.

[wastingbeerz]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

That song's always been too sappy for me. And Live & Breathe crushes it, IMO. Best Augeri-era song ever.

[Jana]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

That song's always been too sappy for me. And Live & Breathe crushes it, IMO. Best Augeri-era song ever.

I call Live and Breathe a masterpiece. Love it.

[wastingbeerz]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

That song's always been too sappy for me. And Live & Breathe crushes it, IMO. Best Augeri-era song ever.

I call Live and Breathe a masterpiece. Love it.

Hell... if they did a version with nothing but Neal's crunching guitar and Steve's voice, it would still be a masterpiece.

[Jana]

There isn't a single song on Arrival that's as good as "When You Love a Woman". I think Arrival has better songs overall, but the fact that Perry is singing on Trial By Fire makes it the winner!

I totally agree with you=0) There are some amazing songs on Arrival. I remember falling in love with several of the lyrics, but wishing Steve Perry would have been singing them=0(

Once I adjusted to it not being Steve Perry on the album and grew to love the album, I wouldn't want Perry on it. Augeri helped make the melancholy sound of the album that I love with Neal's guitar. It would have been a lot of over-emoting with Perry. I love the songs just the way they were done, understated but beautifully soulful. The songs would have taken on a different life with Perry and not been the same b/c he would have put his own stamp on them which would have changed the songs somewhat.

[Vladan]

Arrival.

Could have done without a few of the ballads, but overall, a great disc.

And speaking of Arrival, here is an obscure (and very good) cover of "All The Way":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMMJuRzJcCs

ugh... don't care for the instrumentation or that guy's voice. He's strained and pitchy.

Sounds good IMO, sounds like a pro.

[ChildInTime]

I haven't listened to Arrival yet, but when it comes to Trial by Fire, Steve P's voice doesn't bug me at all. In fact, I still really like it. But then again, I seem to really enjoy listening to singers that have an identifiable quirk to their voice, which his kinda does there. The only thing that really kills TBF to me is its pacing: it's like reading a really, really long book with a really, really slow-moving plot.... but with beautifully written, albeit unique, prose. Heh.

Arrival seems just as long, though, however. Is the pacing better than TBF, at least? Because to use the book analogy again, long books are fine when they click by at a nice pace.

[steveo777]

I haven't listened to Arrival yet, but when it comes to Trial by Fire, Steve P's voice doesn't bug me at all. In fact, I still really like it. But then again, I seem to really enjoy listening to singers that have an identifiable quirk to their voice, which his kinda does there. The only thing that really kills TBF to me is its pacing: it's like reading a really, really long book with a really, really slow-moving plot.... but with beautifully written, albeit unique, prose. Heh.

Arrival seems just as long, though, however. Is the pacing better than TBF, at least? Because to use the book analogy again, long books are fine when they click by at a nice pace.

For awhile I never gave two shits about any non Perry album. It took me a long, long time to listen to Arrival. I regret not hearing it sooner as it's fantastic. Listen to Arrival....trust me.

[ChildInTime]

^
I'll take your word for it. Especially since I was the same way with Anthrax (of all random bands...): I wouldn't listen to anything recorded without the "classic" lineup for the longest time, but I finally sucked it up and listened to their first record with John Bush, Sound of White Noise, and thought it was a really good (If really different) album. None of their other albums with him stand up to it, but SoWN is great. It just took me a long time to think of it as an Anthrax album, ha ha.

[perryfaithful]

TBF

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

[Jana]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

[steveo777]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Happy new year!

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

[steveo777]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

[Jana]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

I did associate it with their earlier album, TBF, and TBF lost. For me, Arrival is the stronger album. It's one thing to say IMO TBF was better but to comapre Arrival to it as shit or turd really is an insult. Great album, great lyrics and music, with great delivered by Augeri.

[steveo777]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

I did associate it with their earlier album, TBF, and TBF lost. For me, Arrival is the stronger album. It's one thing to say IMO TBF was better but to comapre Arrival to it as shit or turd really is an insult. Great album, great lyrics and music, with great delivered by Augeri.

Jana, spot on. I feel the same way. I hope Vlad isn't disappointed that one of my picks wasn't Revelation. Funny thing about Arrival is I don't even try and make Perry / Augeri comparisons. It just is what it is, a great album and SA is just right for it.

[parfait]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

I did associate it with their earlier album, TBF, and TBF lost. For me, Arrival is the stronger album. It's one thing to say IMO TBF was better but to comapre Arrival to it as shit or turd really is an insult. Great album, great lyrics and music, with great delivered by Augeri.

Jana, spot on. I feel the same way. I hope Vlad isn't disappointed that one of my picks wasn't Revelation. Funny thing about Arrival is I don't even try and make Perry / Augeri comparisons. It just is what it is, a great album and SA is just right for it.

Damn, you and Jana really tag teamed Vladan's ass!

Arrival is a better album, far less drenched in sappy ballads. Steve Smith, and Neal is the two guys that really shine on TBF though, especially Smith.

Don't remember hearing, or seeing (thank you Jesus) Ross Valory on there, though.

[wastingbeerz]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Meh... I'll take Augeri over crackly voiced latter-era Perry anyday.

[Jana]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Meh... I'll take Augeri over crackly voiced latter-era Perry anyday.

You turd/shit lover you.

[ChildInTime]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Meh... I'll take Augeri over crackly voiced latter-era Perry anyday.

See, I LIKE the crackly-voiced Perry. Then again, like I said, I like "weird" singers. Some of my favorite singers are Dolores O'Riordan from The Cranberries, Raine Maida from Our Lady Peace, Amy Ray, and Mark Kozelek. All of those singers have weird quirks and aren't technically perfect, yet I really enjoy them because of that fact. (Not that I don't really enjoy technically perfect singers either, but I find myself drawn towards the quirky people a lot.) I guess I'm weird.

[donnaplease]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

This is a classic post!!! Not because of the opinion, per se, but because of the random-ness of the comparison. Too funny! Way to come in from WAY out in left field with that one, Vlad!

Now, to the topic, obviously TBF is my choice, because I'm a loon. I was very impressed with SA when I saw Journey back in the early SA days, but not enough to follow the band through the Augeri era. The events of the past few years have given me a new appreciation for him, though. Can't say I'll really be a fan of the music, but his actions and things told to me by folks who have known him have made me a fan of the man.

[steveo777]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

This is a classic post!!! Not because of the opinion, per se, but because of the random-ness of the comparison. Too funny! Way to come in from WAY out in left field with that one, Vlad!

Now, to the topic, obviously TBF is my choice, because I'm a loon. I was very impressed with SA when I saw Journey back in the early SA days, but not enough to follow the band through the Augeri era. The events of the past few years have given me a new appreciation for him, though. Can't say I'll really be a fan of the music, but his actions and things told to me by folks who have known him have made me a fan of the man.

Steve Augeri is a class act. He has had plenty of opportunity to say whatever he's wanted to about the band but seems to always take the high road.

[donnaplease]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

This is a classic post!!! Not because of the opinion, per se, but because of the random-ness of the comparison. Too funny! Way to come in from WAY out in left field with that one, Vlad!

Now, to the topic, obviously TBF is my choice, because I'm a loon. I was very impressed with SA when I saw Journey back in the early SA days, but not enough to follow the band through the Augeri era. The events of the past few years have given me a new appreciation for him, though. Can't say I'll really be a fan of the music, but his actions and things told to me by folks who have known him have made me a fan of the man.

Steve Augeri is a class act. He has had plenty of opportunity to say whatever he's wanted to about the band but seems to always take the high road.

Exactly. Although a Schonesque "fuck 'im" would be both warranted and applauded by many I'm sure, somehow I doubt SA would stoop to that level.

[donnaplease]

However, on second thought... we really don't know if there is a "gag order" in whatever agreement they had when they broke ties. He may be unable to say what he really wants to say at this point. I doubt anyone would blame him for ripping the J-boys a new one for the way they threw him under the bus though.

[steveo777]

However, on second thought... we really don't know if there is a "gag order" in whatever agreement they had when they broke ties. He may be unable to say what he really wants to say at this point. I doubt anyone would blame him for ripping the J-boys a new one for the way they threw him under the bus though.

We were doing great right up until the conspiracy theory popped out of your keyboard.

I truely believe that SA was given a tremendous opportunity and he is really grateful for having had it. I doubt there is any bitterness.

[Jana]

However, on second thought... we really don't know if there is a "gag order" in whatever agreement they had when they broke ties. He may be unable to say what he really wants to say at this point. I doubt anyone would blame him for ripping the J-boys a new one for the way they threw him under the bus though.

We were doing great right up until the conspiracy theory popped out of your keyboard.

I truely believe that SA was given a tremendous opportunity and he is really grateful for having had it. I doubt there is any bitterness.

Exactly. Augeri has a stunning home in New York and a career he never would have had if not for Jon and Neal. All in all, when it's said and done, I believe he will always be grateful to the guys for the opportunity afforded him to make a great living and was able to provide for his family in a way he never would have been able without them.

[donnaplease]

However, on second thought... we really don't know if there is a "gag order" in whatever agreement they had when they broke ties. He may be unable to say what he really wants to say at this point. I doubt anyone would blame him for ripping the J-boys a new one for the way they threw him under the bus though.

We were doing great right up until the conspiracy theory popped out of your keyboard.

I truely believe that SA was given a tremendous opportunity and he is really grateful for having had it. I doubt there is any bitterness.

Exactly. Augeri has a stunning home in New York and a career he never would have had if not for Jon and Neal. All in all, when it's said and done, I believe he will always be grateful to the guys for the opportunity afforded him to make a great living and was able to provide for his family in a way he never would have been able without them.

You guys are probably right, and it's not really a conspiracy theory, just perhaps some damage control by TPTB. I don't necessarily blame them for doing that, if they did. But you gotta admit that it's really against human nature to be shredded as badly as he was (mostly here, granted) and not come out defending yourself. I guess another argument that could be made is that perhaps the J-boys learned well from the breakup with SP. Not airing your dirty laundry publicly is always the best way to handle things in the long run. The other thing is that there were so many people (not here, mostly ) that were huge fans of SA that just wanted to hear he was ok. They didn't get that either, and I believe some people were really hurt about that.

Jana, I'm sure his memories are very bittersweet. Although he should be grateful for the opportunities afforded him, he still got thrown under that perverbial bus, and unless he's superhuman in nature he has to harbor some resentment. Personally, I'd be a little disappointed in him if he didn't. Hope that makes sense. Don't want drama, just truthfulness.