Which Album Better - Trial By Fire or Arrival

[steveo777]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

[Jana]

However, on second thought... we really don't know if there is a "gag order" in whatever agreement they had when they broke ties. He may be unable to say what he really wants to say at this point. I doubt anyone would blame him for ripping the J-boys a new one for the way they threw him under the bus though.

We were doing great right up until the conspiracy theory popped out of your keyboard.

I truely believe that SA was given a tremendous opportunity and he is really grateful for having had it. I doubt there is any bitterness.

Exactly. Augeri has a stunning home in New York and a career he never would have had if not for Jon and Neal. All in all, when it's said and done, I believe he will always be grateful to the guys for the opportunity afforded him to make a great living and was able to provide for his family in a way he never would have been able without them.

You guys are probably right, and it's not really a conspiracy theory, just perhaps some damage control by TPTB. I don't necessarily blame them for doing that, if they did. But you gotta admit that it's really against human nature to be shredded as badly as he was (mostly here, granted) and not come out defending yourself. I guess another argument that could be made is that perhaps the J-boys learned well from the breakup with SP. Not airing your dirty laundry publicly is always the best way to handle things in the long run. The other thing is that there were so many people (not here, mostly ) that were huge fans of SA that just wanted to hear he was ok. They didn't get that either, and I believe some people were really hurt about that.

Jana, I'm sure his memories are very bittersweet. Although he should be grateful for the opportunities afforded him, he still got thrown under that perverbial bus, and unless he's superhuman in nature he has to harbor some resentment. Personally, I'd be a little disappointed in him if he didn't. Hope that makes sense. Don't want drama, just truthfulness.

No, I understand. That's why I said "when it's all said and done" he will always be grateful. There may have been some resentment towards the band by him, but he had a lot to do with it too, so he also probably has many regrets towards himself regarding his hand in it. All he had to do was say no. They were all culpable. I doubt he had contact with his fans b/c he didn't want questions either about his lipsynching and he was embarrassed. Probably a very low period for him. I don't have a problem with them doing that to get through a tour instead of cancelling, albeit a very poor decision, but looking at their long history of performances throughout the years, easily forgiven from my end.

And I agree with you not airing your dirty laundry was the best way to go. Beyond a small core group of fans on the internet and some industry knowledge, no one knew anything about this as Journey wasn't exactly in the news those days musicwise. But nowadays Steve A. has his voice back and is doing what he loves and that scandal way long blown over, and I just don't feel (jmo) at this stage of his life he has any lingering bitterness towards them and how it played out at the time.

[annie89509]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

Um... TBF is maybe 5 minutes shorter than Arrival.

In fact, I just looked both albums up on wikipedia:

TBF: 67:58
Arrival: 73:50

A difference of 5:52.

And for me, the longer the album, the better. Too long is never an issue as long as it's a good album.

Read and consider all my posts, please. I had already stated that TBF is considered too long, too ballad-heavy, to some (although not to me). I was trying to make the point that Arrival was also long, with just as many ballads.

[annie89509]

Arrival....is technically a better album, but does not have the voice. So I have to give it to TBF.

[steveo777]

Arrival....is technically a better album, but does not have the voice. So I have to give it to TBF.

What I posted doesn't constitute a comparison. Obviously anything with Perry on it wins but that does not mean that Arrival is not a fantastic album in my book. What I meant is I don't try and hear comparisons to Perry when I listen to Arrival. Arrival stands it's own ground with SA's delivery of those songs. I know it's hard to understand, but I love both albums for different reasons.

[Jana]

Arrival....is technically a better album, but does not have the voice. So I have to give it to TBF.

What I posted doesn't constitute a comparison. Obviously anything with Perry on it wins but that does not mean that Arrival is not a fantastic album in my book. What I meant is I don't try and hear comparisons to Perry when I listen to Arrival. Arrival stands it's own ground with SA's delivery of those songs. I know it's hard to understand, but I love both albums for different reasons.

Not "obviously" for me. Arrival won.

[steveo777]

Arrival....is technically a better album, but does not have the voice. So I have to give it to TBF.

What I posted doesn't constitute a comparison. Obviously anything with Perry on it wins but that does not mean that Arrival is not a fantastic album in my book. What I meant is I don't try and hear comparisons to Perry when I listen to Arrival. Arrival stands it's own ground with SA's delivery of those songs. I know it's hard to understand, but I love both albums for different reasons.

Not "obviously" for me. Arrival won.

I have days where I teeter to this side but I dismiss it as a wiring malfunction in my brain and simply cannot be.

[wastingbeerz]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

Um... TBF is maybe 5 minutes shorter than Arrival.

In fact, I just looked both albums up on wikipedia:

TBF: 67:58
Arrival: 73:50

A difference of 5:52.

And for me, the longer the album, the better. Too long is never an issue as long as it's a good album.

Read and consider all my posts, please. I had already stated that TBF is considered too long, too ballad-heavy, to some (although not to me). I was trying to make the point that Arrival was also long, with just as many ballads.

I can get through all Arrival just about anytime, but TBF is a different story... I find it mostly a chore. Definitely feels longer than Arrival. Would hate to have heard what they came up with if Perry remained in the band and they kept going in this direction...

[steveo777]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

Um... TBF is maybe 5 minutes shorter than Arrival.

In fact, I just looked both albums up on wikipedia:

TBF: 67:58
Arrival: 73:50

A difference of 5:52.

And for me, the longer the album, the better. Too long is never an issue as long as it's a good album.

Read and consider all my posts, please. I had already stated that TBF is considered too long, too ballad-heavy, to some (although not to me). I was trying to make the point that Arrival was also long, with just as many ballads.

I can get through all Arrival just about anytime, but TBF is a different story... I find it mostly a chore. Definitely feels longer than Arrival. Would hate to have heard what they came up with if Perry remained in the band and they kept going in this direction...

True. Now I'm really curious what direction they are going with Arnel at the helm. I don't know when they hit the studio, but my guess is within the first half of this year. We're gonna find out what he's made of creatively if it is really true that he has been participating in the writing. This had better be good because it's probably Journey's last ball in the cannon and it's boom or bust time as far as albums go. They'll continue to be fine with touring, but this album is a biggie.

[portland]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

[Jana]

I tried to give Arrival a chance, truly I did....both when SA was there and after his departure. Put the record on in spurts to give it a fair listen. Honestly, the album is too long....can't tell what song is what title near the end as my retention (and attention) span never goes further than track10. Meet Again ...Alive Again...whaaat?!?!

Um... TBF is maybe 5 minutes shorter than Arrival.

In fact, I just looked both albums up on wikipedia:

TBF: 67:58
Arrival: 73:50

A difference of 5:52.

And for me, the longer the album, the better. Too long is never an issue as long as it's a good album.

Read and consider all my posts, please. I had already stated that TBF is considered too long, too ballad-heavy, to some (although not to me). I was trying to make the point that Arrival was also long, with just as many ballads.

I can get through all Arrival just about anytime, but TBF is a different story... I find it mostly a chore. Definitely feels longer than Arrival. Would hate to have heard what they came up with if Perry remained in the band and they kept going in this direction...

True. Now I'm really curious what direction they are going with Arnel at the helm. I don't know when they hit the studio, but my guess is within the first half of this year. We're gonna find out what he's made of creatively if it is really true that he has been participating in the writing. This had better be good because it's probably Journey's last ball in the cannon and it's boom or bust time as far as albums go. They'll continue to be fine with touring, but this album is a biggie.

All I'm hoping for is they have Arnel in diction lessons since he's hanging in his homeland so much and I'm sure slipping back. I want a really polished delivery on this album by him.

[steveo777]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

You talking to me? Must be a bad day for the inner hostilities which are manifesting themselves on the outside, via your keyboard.

[Jana]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

Time for you to go back to your Perry Porn downstairs. You seem a little, well, pent up.

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

This is a classic post!!! Not because of the opinion, per se, but because of the random-ness of the comparison. Too funny! Way to come in from WAY out in left field with that one, Vlad!

Now, to the topic, obviously TBF is my choice, because I'm a loon. I was very impressed with SA when I saw Journey back in the early SA days, but not enough to follow the band through the Augeri era. The events of the past few years have given me a new appreciation for him, though. Can't say I'll really be a fan of the music, but his actions and things told to me by folks who have known him have made me a fan of the man.

Thank you Donna, yes it was. And I may not be as blunt as John From boston, or Deano at times, but calling a spade a spade is what I do best.

Thanks.

[Vladan]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

I did associate it with their earlier album, TBF, and TBF lost. For me, Arrival is the stronger album. It's one thing to say IMO TBF was better but to comapre Arrival to it as shit or turd really is an insult. Great album, great lyrics and music, with great delivered by Augeri.

Jana, spot on. I feel the same way. I hope Vlad isn't disappointed that one of my picks wasn't Revelation. Funny thing about Arrival is I don't even try and make Perry / Augeri comparisons. It just is what it is, a great album and SA is just right for it.

Damn, you and Jana really tag teamed Vladan's ass!

Arrival is a better album, far less drenched in sappy ballads. Steve Smith, and Neal is the two guys that really shine on TBF though, especially Smith.

Don't remember hearing, or seeing (thank you Jesus) Ross Valory on there, though.

Indeed, my backside is still sore... c'mon! next time have the courtesy to use some lube, I won't be walking for weeks... sheesh.

[parfait]

Steve Perry sings on TBF, that's an automatic winner, no question.

It's like comparing shit to gold, what's the obvious choice? unless your a shit lover. I do like a bit of shit now and then, such as Arrival, it's an OKAY album, but I'd rather the good stuff anytime, and that's anything with Steve Perry, the rest you can take it or leave it, and if you left it, you wouldn't miss it.

Anything after Steve Perry's left, is quite honestly is a dressed up turd, made to impress, but has no lasting appeal, or long jeopardy, it's just forgotten about already isn't it.

Arrival is far from what I would consider "shit"
It's all about the classic material with the classic lineup, as it always has been and always will be.

Pathetic.

Ditto!

I really have an appreciation for all of Journey's works, with two exceptions.

Which 2 don't you like?.

Red 13 and Generations

Ah yes! those two, even worse than Arrival, well atleast Arrival is a good album if you don't associate it with their previous work, that's IMO, but Red 13 and Generations hey, where were those recorded? apparantly a studio.

I did associate it with their earlier album, TBF, and TBF lost. For me, Arrival is the stronger album. It's one thing to say IMO TBF was better but to comapre Arrival to it as shit or turd really is an insult. Great album, great lyrics and music, with great delivered by Augeri.

Jana, spot on. I feel the same way. I hope Vlad isn't disappointed that one of my picks wasn't Revelation. Funny thing about Arrival is I don't even try and make Perry / Augeri comparisons. It just is what it is, a great album and SA is just right for it.

Damn, you and Jana really tag teamed Vladan's ass!

Arrival is a better album, far less drenched in sappy ballads. Steve Smith, and Neal is the two guys that really shine on TBF though, especially Smith.

Don't remember hearing, or seeing (thank you Jesus) Ross Valory on there, though.

Indeed, my backside is still sore... c'mon! next time have the courtesy to use some lube, I won't be walking for weeks... sheesh.

HEHEHOHOHEHE!

Even though you look like a white pudding with a girly ass wig, I'm not gonna bully you, and I know you know why:

You're a dumbass.

[portland]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

Time for you to go back to your Perry Porn downstairs. You seem a little, well, pent up.

Nope....just fine thanks for asking......

[portland]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

You talking to me? Must be a bad day for the inner hostilities which are manifesting themselves on the outside, via your keyboard.

What can I say you bring out the best in me.

[Michigan Girl]

c'mon! next time have the courtesy to use some lube, I won't be walking for weeks... sheesh.

lol!!
Gotta supply your own, Vlad!!
TBF it is, grainy, sexy vox...good choice!!

[steveo777]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

You talking to me? Must be a bad day for the inner hostilities which are manifesting themselves on the outside, via your keyboard.

What can I say you bring out the best in me.

Cool! Wanna get married?

[portland]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

You talking to me? Must be a bad day for the inner hostilities which are manifesting themselves on the outside, via your keyboard.

What can I say you bring out the best in me.

Cool! Wanna get married?

All set with that...

[steveo777]

Oh for god's sake!! Perry and Schon = Journey.....the rest is BS...and Arrival is my favorite non Perry CD....move on!!!

You talking to me? Must be a bad day for the inner hostilities which are manifesting themselves on the outside, via your keyboard.

What can I say you bring out the best in me.

Cool! Wanna get married?

All set with that...

Me too, but it never hurts to have a backup plan!

[Since 78]

I have another problem with TBF, the more I listen to it the more I'm sure that Perry's vocals are at least 50% studio magic. Strangely, we never got a chance to find out for sure. To bad about that hip thing.

[Frontiers65]

What I posted doesn't constitute a comparison. Obviously anything with Perry on it wins but that does not mean that Arrival is not a fantastic album in my book. What I meant is I don't try and hear comparisons to Perry when I listen to Arrival. Arrival stands it's own ground with SA's delivery of those songs. I know it's hard to understand, but I love both albums for different reasons. [/quote]

Not "obviously" for me. Arrival won.[/quote]

I agree.

[journeyrock]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

[steveo777]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

[journeyrock]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

[Jana]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

[journeyrock]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Would be very interesting, wouldn't it? I love to watch a good pissing match.

[steveo777]

The band doesn't need Behind The Music part 2.

The fact that circumstances could even WARRANT a Behind the Music part 2 is very telling on the J-boys.

Well, just for clarification there is NOT going to be a BTM part 2 and there are no circumstances that could warrant it. I was responding to another poster. But if you like to take things and run with them, SP does have an album coming out sometime and has had an album coming out for sometime. Maybe we'll see it......sometime.

Been down that road and back....not holding MY breath, I'd like to live awhile.

No, there aren't any circumstances to warrant it, but there COULD easily have been, that's my point.

There was a lot left on the cutting room floor that I would love to see of that show.

Like what else besides "never felt like a part of the band" was said? He was probably taken out of context.