HEARTBREAK......

[Ehwmatt]

I gotcha. It kinda sounded to me like you were advocating someone just using them for months after a breakup or a death or what not. I still think it becomes too easy to just keep taking them nonstop once you successfully mask the pain of whatever trauma you experience, but at least I see where you're coming from now.

No, not advocating using them for long extended periods of time, didn't mean for it to sound that way (damn internet, lol). But then again, see, taking something for a few months like you mention isn't out of the ordinary after something traumatic, while that person works through whatever may have happened. The other things you mentioned simply aren't the same, such as someone with ongoing and ongoing depression, that's an illness; Ritalin is for another completely different problem; painkillers are never meant to be for extended periods of time. Those are all completely different balls of wax compared to one traumatic event in someone's life.

Well, see, my closest experiences are painkillers and in both instances, they were taken and in fact needed for a long period of time. I had a roommate in college who herniated a disc in his back, an extremely painful injury (as I'm pretty sure you know - you're a nurse right?) and he got hooked on them.

My grandmother's had a bigtime bout with osteoporosis leading to broken vertebrae in her back, and she's doing much better now, but she still hasn't gotten off the pills. She claims she needs them, but I just took her to the Cleveland Clinic a few months back where the doctor told her point blank from her MRI that she didn't need them any more and to get off them. Meanwhile, she's still using them. It's not like they're all fucked up all the time, but it's definitely noticeable when you know the person well... head in the clouds half the time and just down the other time or spacing out while driving etc.

So that's where I'm coming from.

[Melissa]

Well, see, my closest experiences are painkillers and in both instances, they were taken and in fact needed for a long period of time. I had a roommate in college who herniated a disc in his back, an extremely painful injury (as I'm pretty sure you know - you're a nurse right?) and he got hooked on them.

My grandmother's had a bigtime bout with osteoporosis leading to broken vertebrae in her back, and she's doing much better now, but she still hasn't gotten off the pills. She claims she needs them, but I just took her to the Cleveland Clinic a few months back where the doctor told her point blank from her MRI that she didn't need them any more and to get off them. Meanwhile, she's still using them. It's not like they're all fucked up all the time, but it's definitely noticeable when you know the person well... head in the clouds half the time and just down the other time or spacing out while driving etc.

So that's where I'm coming from.

I do see where you're coming from, and I should have specified there are types of painkillers that are not meant to be for extended periods of time. Still not in the same ballpark as someone experiencing a traumatic event and being helped for a few months or so by something like Zoloft. But I see what you mean for the others.

Oh and yes I am, for babies, can't stand taking care of adults, lol.

[Arianddu]

I just generally don't believe in using such substances day-to-day unless they are truly medically necessary. If you want to take a Valium to calm down while a loved one is in the operating room for a serious surgery, fine. But using pills day to day for a long period of time is never a fix, imo.

No, anti-depressants aren't a fix, they're like using a pair of crutches while you wait for your broken leg to heal. They don't make your leg heal any faster but they do make your life a bit easier to cope with while the leg is healing. And for some breaks, it's almost impossible to live any kind of functional life without those crutches until the leg heals.

Admitedly, there are some people who get into the state of mind where they don't want to give up the crutches and start walking on their own again, but I would say they are in the minority. Just like it takes time and effort to get a healed leg back to normal strength once you get the cast off, it takes time and work to get back to 'normal life' once the depression is dealt with. Some people hang onto their meds because either they are scared that if they stop, they'll go back to the black place, or because when they try, they panic when they don't feel their coping levels are 'normal' straight away. That's why anti-depressants need to be taken in combination with counselling and with the right kind of support - physiotherapists for the mind and soul.

The problem that I see is this: if you saw someone hobbling down the street on a pair of crutches with a cast on their leg, you wouldn't think anything of it. You certainly wouldn't make any kind of judgement about what sort of person they are, or think that they are an addict abusing their pain killers, or that they should just suck it up and get on with it. But a LOT of people see use of anti-depressants that way. And anti-depressants are long-term medications precisely because they aren't a cure for depression, they are an aid in giving people the self-resources to fix the problem, and that takes time.

[Luvsaugeri]

For me, taking Zoloft wasn't about helping me deal with my mother's death, it was about helping me deal with everything else. I only had so much 'cope' to go around, and I could cope with my grief, or cope with getting the bills paid, the dishes done, and basic day to day human interaction bullshit. I couldn't handle both, so I dealt with my grief and let life go to hell for a bit. But you can't live like that, and the longer you do, the more work it is to get life back to normal. So medication wasn't about making the grief go away, or repressing feelings, it was about giving me the ability to handle both my grief at my mother's illness and death, as well as the ordinary crap of day to day living. Nothing got repressed, it just got a little less overwhelming.

Well said. I've never understood why medications like that are looked at as some kind of weakness on the part of the person taking it, yet other ways of "coping" aren't looked down upon as much it seems. It's strange. Drinking a ton, having hundreds of sex partners, abusing non-RX drugs, etc., are definitely major problems, so it's strange to see RX medication, when used properly, for it's intended purpose and not abused, is considered more a problem it seems sometimes over these others.

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

[Ehwmatt]

For me, taking Zoloft wasn't about helping me deal with my mother's death, it was about helping me deal with everything else. I only had so much 'cope' to go around, and I could cope with my grief, or cope with getting the bills paid, the dishes done, and basic day to day human interaction bullshit. I couldn't handle both, so I dealt with my grief and let life go to hell for a bit. But you can't live like that, and the longer you do, the more work it is to get life back to normal. So medication wasn't about making the grief go away, or repressing feelings, it was about giving me the ability to handle both my grief at my mother's illness and death, as well as the ordinary crap of day to day living. Nothing got repressed, it just got a little less overwhelming.

Well said. I've never understood why medications like that are looked at as some kind of weakness on the part of the person taking it, yet other ways of "coping" aren't looked down upon as much it seems. It's strange. Drinking a ton, having hundreds of sex partners, abusing non-RX drugs, etc., are definitely major problems, so it's strange to see RX medication, when used properly, for it's intended purpose and not abused, is considered more a problem it seems sometimes over these others.

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

Thanks Kelly, I totally agree.

[Melissa]

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

As a nurse also, yes I do understand that. I've been in peds. for 15 years now, but my first year out I worked med/surg and I definitely know what you mean. And yes there are plenty of doctors out there who fuel it along too, no doubt. But people as patients can also be very smart at how they shop around for what they want, they know the game and know how to play it, they know what to say and how to threaten doctors with "you're not taking care of me" when they don't get what they want. It goes both ways, as I'm sure you know too.

And Ariandu, well said. Painkiller addiction and people with ongoing depression are different ballparks from someone dealing with a traumatic event and simply being helped to heal from it for a short time.

[StevePerryHair]

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

As a nurse also, yes I do understand that. I've been in peds. for 15 years now, but my first year out I worked med/surg and I definitely know what you mean. And yes there are plenty of doctors out there who fuel it along too, no doubt. But people as patients can also be very smart at how they shop around for what they want, they know the game and know how to play it, they know what to say and how to threaten doctors with "you're not taking care of me" when they don't get what they want. It goes both ways, as I'm sure you know too.

And Ariandu, well said. Painkiller addiction and people with ongoing depression are different ballparks from someone dealing with a traumatic event and simply being helped to heal from it for a short time.

EXACTLY!!

[Ehwmatt]

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

As a nurse also, yes I do understand that. I've been in peds. for 15 years now, but my first year out I worked med/surg and I definitely know what you mean. And yes there are plenty of doctors out there who fuel it along too, no doubt. But people as patients can also be very smart at how they shop around for what they want, they know the game and know how to play it, they know what to say and how to threaten doctors with "you're not taking care of me" when they don't get what they want. It goes both ways, as I'm sure you know too.

And Ariandu, well said. Painkiller addiction and people with ongoing depression are different ballparks from someone dealing with a traumatic event and simply being helped to heal from it for a short time.

EXACTLY!!

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

[StevePerryHair]

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

As a nurse also, yes I do understand that. I've been in peds. for 15 years now, but my first year out I worked med/surg and I definitely know what you mean. And yes there are plenty of doctors out there who fuel it along too, no doubt. But people as patients can also be very smart at how they shop around for what they want, they know the game and know how to play it, they know what to say and how to threaten doctors with "you're not taking care of me" when they don't get what they want. It goes both ways, as I'm sure you know too.

And Ariandu, well said. Painkiller addiction and people with ongoing depression are different ballparks from someone dealing with a traumatic event and simply being helped to heal from it for a short time.

EXACTLY!!

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

Well, you have not dealt with mental illness of a close family member. So it may be easy for you to say that. AND traumatic events such as death, SOMETIMES trigger mental illness to come to a head. I have seen it first hand. You are very lucky if you haven't. (and no, it's not my mom, just want to clarify since I did mention her using a very small dose of xanax after my dad passed for a month )

[Ehwmatt]

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

As a nurse also, yes I do understand that. I've been in peds. for 15 years now, but my first year out I worked med/surg and I definitely know what you mean. And yes there are plenty of doctors out there who fuel it along too, no doubt. But people as patients can also be very smart at how they shop around for what they want, they know the game and know how to play it, they know what to say and how to threaten doctors with "you're not taking care of me" when they don't get what they want. It goes both ways, as I'm sure you know too.

And Ariandu, well said. Painkiller addiction and people with ongoing depression are different ballparks from someone dealing with a traumatic event and simply being helped to heal from it for a short time.

EXACTLY!!

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

Well, you have not dealt with mental illness of a close family member. So it may be easy for you to say that. AND traumatic events such as death, SOMETIMES trigger mental illness to come to a head. I have seen it first hand. You are very lucky if you haven't. (and no, it's not my mom, just want to clarify since I did mention her using a very small dose of xanax after my dad passed for a month )

Is there any type of traumatic event that hasn't happened to one of your family members? Geez

[Melissa]

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

I understand 100% where you are coming from, and I agree meds. can be a crutch used for too long for some people, people who are NOT actually sick with a mental illness like ongoing depression or many others. I think you're just kind of missing the point both Ariandu and I have been trying to make that medication for a contained short period of time for a traumatic event is NOT the same as the things you keep mentioning where people end up addicted or abusing for extended periods of time.

[StevePerryHair]

I see this everyday. I work in an ICU as well as in home health. In my experience at least 75% (and that's a low ball figure) do NOT use medications properly. And doctors are just as much at fault. We live in an age where everyone wants a 'quick' fix and to be able to pop a pill to fix whatever ails them. And doctors are more inclined to give them what they want and hand this stuff out like candy rather than find other ways to deal with the underlying issues. I definitely feel RX medication addiction is every bit, if not more, prevalent than illegal drug use.

As a nurse also, yes I do understand that. I've been in peds. for 15 years now, but my first year out I worked med/surg and I definitely know what you mean. And yes there are plenty of doctors out there who fuel it along too, no doubt. But people as patients can also be very smart at how they shop around for what they want, they know the game and know how to play it, they know what to say and how to threaten doctors with "you're not taking care of me" when they don't get what they want. It goes both ways, as I'm sure you know too.

And Ariandu, well said. Painkiller addiction and people with ongoing depression are different ballparks from someone dealing with a traumatic event and simply being helped to heal from it for a short time.

EXACTLY!!

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

Well, you have not dealt with mental illness of a close family member. So it may be easy for you to say that. AND traumatic events such as death, SOMETIMES trigger mental illness to come to a head. I have seen it first hand. You are very lucky if you haven't. (and no, it's not my mom, just want to clarify since I did mention her using a very small dose of xanax after my dad passed for a month )

Is there any type of traumatic event that hasn't happened to one of your family members? Geez

Actually, if you pay attention, they are ALL part of the same traumatic event. The loss of my dad when he was only 46 years old. That is the ONLY one that you and I have gone back and forth on in 2 threads now. Same event. And I HOPE you never have to experience the things i have in my life so far.

[Ehwmatt]

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

I understand 100% where you are coming from, and I agree meds. can be a crutch used for too long for some people, people who are NOT actually sick with a mental illness like ongoing depression or many others. I think you're just kind of missing the point both Ariandu and I have been trying to make that medication for a contained short period of time for a traumatic event is NOT the same as the things you keep mentioning where people end up addicted or abusing for extended periods of time.

No, I get where you're coming from, I really do. But I also think there are some people (not all who are diagnosed) who are diagnosed as "needing" some kind of chemically altering pill long-term (eg with depression) that really just need a good kick in the ass to wake up, not a daily dose.

[StevePerryHair]

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

I understand 100% where you are coming from, and I agree meds. can be a crutch used for too long for some people, people who are NOT actually sick with a mental illness like ongoing depression or many others. I think you're just kind of missing the point both Ariandu and I have been trying to make that medication for a contained short period of time for a traumatic event is NOT the same as the things you keep mentioning where people end up addicted or abusing for extended periods of time.

No, I get where you're coming from, I really do. But I also think there are some people (not all who are diagnosed) who are diagnosed as "needing" some kind of chemically altering pill long-term (eg with depression) that really just need a good kick in the ass to wake up, not a daily dose.

I would never deny that there is probably an over usage of anti-depressants in this country. But I also have seen the other end of things. And I have learned a lot about mental illness over the last 18 years. And why the brain is triggered to react one way in one person, and another in someone else with the SAME experience. And it is a HUGE mystery. I mean psychiatrists make guesses, but no one really understands the brain at all, I am convinced. I only know what I witnessed and until you see a person go from being fine, and then losing someone, and their brain changes, its' hard to understand. But YES, it's not a common event, I realize that. But I don't think people who need a way to cope for a short time should be made to feel weak or bad about it.

[Ehwmatt]

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

I understand 100% where you are coming from, and I agree meds. can be a crutch used for too long for some people, people who are NOT actually sick with a mental illness like ongoing depression or many others. I think you're just kind of missing the point both Ariandu and I have been trying to make that medication for a contained short period of time for a traumatic event is NOT the same as the things you keep mentioning where people end up addicted or abusing for extended periods of time.

No, I get where you're coming from, I really do. But I also think there are some people (not all who are diagnosed) who are diagnosed as "needing" some kind of chemically altering pill long-term (eg with depression) that really just need a good kick in the ass to wake up, not a daily dose.

I would never deny that there is probably an over usage of anti-depressants in this country. But I also have seen the other end of things. And I have learned a lot about mental illness over the last 18 years. And why the brain is triggered to react one way in one person, and another in someone else with the SAME experience. And it is a HUGE mystery. I mean psychiatrists make guesses, but no one really understands the brain at all, I am convinced. I only know what I witnessed and until you see a person go from being fine, and then losing someone, and their brain changes, its' hard to understand. But YES, it's not a common event, I realize that. But I don't think people who need a way to cope for a short time should be made to feel weak or bad about it.

Here's what I think: I think the prevalence of the treatment has made the condition itself more acceptable to have. That in turn has made it more acceptable to "have" for a long time, which in turn has allowed people to rely on such a condition for a long period of time. That, then, has created a lot of "weak" people who will use any meager excuse from poor school grades to losing a semi-serious significant other to having a few resumes rejected in the middle of a short-term job search to justify being down in the toilet for months or even years. That's not to downplay the toughness of those events, but they by no means should completely ruin someone's life for an extended period. Unfortunately, people are allowed to act irrationally in the face of things like this because the condition is so widely accepted, from TV ads to medical treatment.

It's not just a question of people being on pills and the side effects themselves, it's the fact that there are so many people out there who are allowed to wallow in self-pity instead of contributing positively to society, their family, and friends. I'm going through this bullshit with one of my closest friends now who has brought his current tough times totally on himself by making poor decisions. Fucker won't even pick up the phone when I call him for 2.5 months. Yes, he's put himself in a bad situation, but it's not bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world. Weakness like that is sanctioned today and it sucks.

[Melissa]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

[StevePerryHair]

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

I understand 100% where you are coming from, and I agree meds. can be a crutch used for too long for some people, people who are NOT actually sick with a mental illness like ongoing depression or many others. I think you're just kind of missing the point both Ariandu and I have been trying to make that medication for a contained short period of time for a traumatic event is NOT the same as the things you keep mentioning where people end up addicted or abusing for extended periods of time.

No, I get where you're coming from, I really do. But I also think there are some people (not all who are diagnosed) who are diagnosed as "needing" some kind of chemically altering pill long-term (eg with depression) that really just need a good kick in the ass to wake up, not a daily dose.

I would never deny that there is probably an over usage of anti-depressants in this country. But I also have seen the other end of things. And I have learned a lot about mental illness over the last 18 years. And why the brain is triggered to react one way in one person, and another in someone else with the SAME experience. And it is a HUGE mystery. I mean psychiatrists make guesses, but no one really understands the brain at all, I am convinced. I only know what I witnessed and until you see a person go from being fine, and then losing someone, and their brain changes, its' hard to understand. But YES, it's not a common event, I realize that. But I don't think people who need a way to cope for a short time should be made to feel weak or bad about it.

Here's what I think: I think the prevalence of the treatment has made the condition itself more acceptable to have. That in turn has made it more acceptable to "have" for a long time, which in turn has allowed people to rely on such a condition for a long period of time. That, then, has created a lot of "weak" people who will use any meager excuse from poor school grades to losing a semi-serious significant other to having a few resumes rejected in the middle of a short-term job search to justify being down in the toilet for months or even years. That's not to downplay the toughness of those events, but they by no means should completely ruin someone's life for an extended period. Unfortunately, people are allowed to act irrationally in the face of things like this because the condition is so widely accepted, from TV ads to medical treatment.

It's not just a question of people being on pills and the side effects themselves, it's the fact that there are so many people out there who are allowed to wallow in self-pity instead of contributing positively to society, their family, and friends. I'm going through this bullshit with one of my closest friends now who has brought his current tough times totally on himself by making poor decisions. Fucker won't even pick up the phone when I call him for 2.5 months.

I think we are talking about 2 different things here anyway. Do you believe that true life long mental illness exists? I am saying there are people who are affected differently by a traumtic event. It can affect them in a way that is as debilitating for them as much as if they were in a bad car crash and lost their ability to walk. Yet we'd still give them a wheelchair. The medication is their wheelchair. It's easy for the people to say the mind doesnt' need treated when it's sick, because they cant "see" it like you can other ailments. And any doctor who can't see the difference between a person who really needs it and one who doesn't, yes should not be a doctor. Or at least they should not be allowed to dispense those medications. And I know there are MANY who dont' take the time to care and really look at the whole picture. It's sad. The WHOLE mental health industry is SAD. I know I"m getting very personal about this. Sorry. It's just a very close to home issue for me, and no not me, though I bet you wonder sometimes I hope they find better ways to help people with these things in the future because the way things are now sucks. But for now, that's all there is.

[Ehwmatt]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

[StevePerryHair]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

Do you have compassion for anyone who's hurting? Wow

[Arianddu]

I dunno, people found a way to live for centuries without antidepressants. I think they are an overbearing crutch for many people. It's all the more convincing when psychological medicine still hasn't determined the exact chemical/physical causes of many of the ailments they dole out drugs for.

I don't think they did, necessarily. For centuries London has kept very good records of what people died of: you don't hear of too many people dying of grief, sorrow, black despair, melancholy and heartbreak any more. Those weren't euphamisms for suicide, they were given as genuine cause of death. People in deep depression can find just getting out of bed, showering and getting dressed totally overwhelming. It isn't hard to take that a little bit further to the days before penicillin and the like to see how being so down that you can't eat, can't keep clean, can't do anything, can end up killing you.

Depression isn't one simple thing. In some cases, like mine, it's situationally triggered; something horrible happens in your life that you just aren't psychologically prepared to handle and everything gets thrown out of balance. In some cases, it's repeatedly triggered - seasonally affected depression is pretty common in my family; most of us can handle it and just put up with feeling blue and taking things harder than normal for three months of the year, but for one of my cousins, when the light levels drop he gets severely down and takes everything in the most negative, self-destructing light. He can live without medication for those three months of the year, but his body chemistry goes right out of whack and his life is hell because nothing is in proportion. So for three months of the year he takes low-level medication to help keep an even keel, uses a light box, has friends and family talk him through his bad patches and keeps big notices up around the house reminding him that it isn't that things are so much worse, it's that he is seeing them through a lens of depression. LOTS of women get blue days right before their period. God knows that three days before I'm due, for one afternoon the slightest thing will have me in tears; someone is five minutes late and I'm convinced they've forgetten I even exist right up to the point when they turn up, someone tells me my lipstick is smeared and they might as well have told me I'm ugly as sin. I only get that for 3 or fours hours once every four weeks - some women get that for days at a time. I was horrified when one woman told me that for her, the depressive part of her manic depression was feeling like that 24-7 for weeks at a time. If she didn't use meds to keep her on an even keel, when she went through a depressive patch, it would get so bad that she would totally isolate herself from everybody because she couldn't cope with feeling so rejected all the time, even though intellectually she knew that wasn't the case.

Mind you, I am very aware that there are people who use their depression as an excuse to get out of being responsible for their lives, and that does make me angry, but even worse are the people who aren't depressed but who claim to be so they can get attention and get out of their responsibilities. I've known someone like that for 20 years now; 20 years ago she would tell people she was dyslexic (she wasn't, she just had shitty spelling), 12 years ago it was irritable bowel syndrome (she doesn't have it, she just eats very fatty food too fast and gets indigestion), 7 years ago she claimed she had chronic fatigue (she didn't, but it was an excuse to get her husband and kids to do all the dull chores; the moment something interesting was involved she had energy to burn), these days she claims to have 'mild aspergers' as an excuse for being selfish and ignoring social niceties and every time she feels she isn't the centre of attention, she pulls a pout and sighs loudly until someone asks her what is wrong: "Oh, I'm just going through one of my depressed cycles; I'm manic depressive. It's harder to handle when no one cares about you." Cue ego stroking.

This woman I want to beat to a bloody pulp, and sadly, there are many like her.

[Ehwmatt]

I think we are talking about 2 different things here anyway. Do you believe that true life long mental illness exists? I am saying there are people who are affected differently by a traumtic event. It can affect them in a way that is as debilitating for them as much as if they were in a bad car crash and lost their ability to walk. Yet we'd still give them a wheelchair. The medication is their wheelchair. It's easy for the people to say the mind doesnt' need treated when it's sick, because they cant "see" it like you can other ailments. And any doctor who can't see the difference between a person who really needs it and one who does, yes should not be a doctor. And I know there are MANY who dont' take the time to care and really look at the whole picture. It's sad. The WHOLE mental health industry is SAD. I know I"m getting very personal about this. Sorry. It's just a very close to home issue for me, and no not me, though I bet you wonder sometimes I hope they find better ways to help people with these things in the future because the way things are now sucks. But for now, that's all there is.

Sure, I believe in schizophrenia, anorexia (aunt has been anorexic for 25 years) and bipolar and what not.

It's just not cool the way mere (read: depression without an underlying issue brought on by a relatively tough time in life) "depression" has become vogue and acceptable to justify unproductive behavior.

For example, my aforementioned friend started grad school on a scholarship, got a year-long apartment, and literally just quit after a month without taking any kind of test and with no back-up plan or job. He had no reason to quit other than he decided "it wasn't for him" (when he still talked to me). Then he broke his lease, didn't go out and even look very hard for say a bartending job (he has a history degree, making his decision to quit grad school even dumber, especially in these times), moved back home, and seemed genuinely surprised when his father was mad as hell at him . Now, it's acceptable for him to play the "depressed" card and isolate himself.

[StevePerryHair]

Let me add too, there is a difference between being a little "depressed" and clinically depressed. One is temporary, one may not be. That is what doctors should be determining when deciding how to give and dose medications. I really don't like that GP docs can dispense these meds. I really think it should be a psychiatrist who does. It might alleviate some of the misuse.

[Ehwmatt]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

Do you have compassion for anyone who's hurting? Wow

Sure I would, if he would talk to me instead of blowing off a friend he's known for 15 years. He'll ignore call after call and then update his Facebook about sports games and stuff... from Facebook for iPhone. Yet none of his other good friends and I have been able to get ahold of him.

[Melissa]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

Is he pissed off at you? j/k Has his number changed maybe? And if not, are you sure he's ok? Do you have ways of knowing if he's ok without having direct contact with him but with others who mutually know him? If you live close enough to him, like I said, maybe just go knock on his door.

[StevePerryHair]

I think we are talking about 2 different things here anyway. Do you believe that true life long mental illness exists? I am saying there are people who are affected differently by a traumtic event. It can affect them in a way that is as debilitating for them as much as if they were in a bad car crash and lost their ability to walk. Yet we'd still give them a wheelchair. The medication is their wheelchair. It's easy for the people to say the mind doesnt' need treated when it's sick, because they cant "see" it like you can other ailments. And any doctor who can't see the difference between a person who really needs it and one who does, yes should not be a doctor. And I know there are MANY who dont' take the time to care and really look at the whole picture. It's sad. The WHOLE mental health industry is SAD. I know I"m getting very personal about this. Sorry. It's just a very close to home issue for me, and no not me, though I bet you wonder sometimes I hope they find better ways to help people with these things in the future because the way things are now sucks. But for now, that's all there is.

Sure, I believe in schizophrenia, anorexia (aunt has been anorexic for 25 years) and bipolar and what not.

It's just not cool the way mere (read: depression without an underlying issue brought on by a relatively tough time in life) "depression" has become vogue and acceptable to justify unproductive behavior.

For example, my aforementioned friend started grad school on a scholarship, got a year-long apartment, and literally just quit after a month without taking any kind of test and with no back-up plan or job. He had no reason to quit other than he decided "it wasn't for him" (when he still talked to me). Then he broke his lease, didn't go out and even look very hard for say a bartending job (he has a history degree, making his decision to quit grad school even dumber, especially in these times), moved back home, and seemed genuinely surprised when his father was mad as hell at him . Now, it's acceptable for him to play the "depressed" card and isolate himself.

How do you know that his behaviors aren't some underlying long term mental health issue? Sabotaging your life could be a sign for sure!! And you are relatively young, so I'm assuming your friend is too. That is about the age that many people who are going to suffer from a long term mental illness sometimes have their first "break". I don't know, for some people it is a life long thing and early 20's is when the signs appear.

[Ehwmatt]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

Is he pissed off at you? j/k Has his number changed maybe? And if not, are you sure he's ok? Do you have ways of knowing if he's ok without having direct contact with him but with others who mutually know him? If you live close enough to him, like I said, maybe just go knock on his door.

Haha, I seriously raked my brain thinking if there was a reason he could be pissed at me for like a month, but dudes aren't like that long-term any way short of stealing someone's woman.

I am good friends with his other good friends, we're all from the same circle, none of us can get a peep outta him. I've thought about dropping by his house, but considering he moved back home, it's kinda weird.

[Arianddu]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

To me, with admittedly limited experience, that actually indicates that he really is suffering from clinical depression. The people who are genuinely depressed shut down and isolate, the people who claim depression as an excuse not to deal act like vampires, sucking life, will, help, money, time, compassion, you name it from whomever they can get to listen. If you were telling me you were pissed off with him because he's done nothing but moan to you about how shitty his life is since Thanksgiving, I'd more than agree with your attitude. The fact that he is doing the exact opposite rings some pretty big alarm bells to me. Ditto the picture that his life is in a self-inflicted mess; clinically depressed people stop functioning because they can't handle things. They tend not to make excuses about why their life is going down the toilet, they just sit and watch it happen without doing anything. It's not that they don't care, as I understand it, it's that everything has become too overwhelming to even know where to start, and eventually the only way you can keep going at all is to shut more and more of reality out.

[Ehwmatt]

I think we are talking about 2 different things here anyway. Do you believe that true life long mental illness exists? I am saying there are people who are affected differently by a traumtic event. It can affect them in a way that is as debilitating for them as much as if they were in a bad car crash and lost their ability to walk. Yet we'd still give them a wheelchair. The medication is their wheelchair. It's easy for the people to say the mind doesnt' need treated when it's sick, because they cant "see" it like you can other ailments. And any doctor who can't see the difference between a person who really needs it and one who does, yes should not be a doctor. And I know there are MANY who dont' take the time to care and really look at the whole picture. It's sad. The WHOLE mental health industry is SAD. I know I"m getting very personal about this. Sorry. It's just a very close to home issue for me, and no not me, though I bet you wonder sometimes I hope they find better ways to help people with these things in the future because the way things are now sucks. But for now, that's all there is.

Sure, I believe in schizophrenia, anorexia (aunt has been anorexic for 25 years) and bipolar and what not.

It's just not cool the way mere (read: depression without an underlying issue brought on by a relatively tough time in life) "depression" has become vogue and acceptable to justify unproductive behavior.

For example, my aforementioned friend started grad school on a scholarship, got a year-long apartment, and literally just quit after a month without taking any kind of test and with no back-up plan or job. He had no reason to quit other than he decided "it wasn't for him" (when he still talked to me). Then he broke his lease, didn't go out and even look very hard for say a bartending job (he has a history degree, making his decision to quit grad school even dumber, especially in these times), moved back home, and seemed genuinely surprised when his father was mad as hell at him . Now, it's acceptable for him to play the "depressed" card and isolate himself.

How do you know that his behaviors aren't some underlying long term mental health issue? Sabotaging your life could be a sign for sure!! And you are relatively young, so I'm assuming your friend is too. That is about the age that many people who are going to suffer from a long term mental illness sometimes have their first "break". I don't know, for some people it is a life long thing and early 20's is when the signs appear.

Well, it's tough to say Lynn. He seemed pretty upset to be moving into the "real world" after college, so I'm not sure if it's a case of total irresponsibility or something worse. I'm starting to wonder if he has a drinking problem or something going on, though he and I have drank together many times and he's never been that ridiculous. That's why I wish I could at least get ahold of him so I could at least get a feel of what's going on with him. At this point, I've concluded that something is going on, but I'm not sure how exaggerated or how real it may be.

[StevePerryHair]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

To me, with admittedly limited experience, that actually indicates that he really is suffering from clinical depression. The people who are genuinely depressed shut down and isolate, the people who claim depression as an excuse not to deal act like vampires, sucking life, will, help, money, time, compassion, you name it from whomever they can get to listen. If you were telling me you were pissed off with him because he's done nothing but moan to you about how shitty his life is since Thanksgiving, I'd more than agree with your attitude. The fact that he is doing the exact opposite rings some pretty big alarm bells to me. Ditto the picture that his life is in a self-inflicted mess; clinically depressed people stop functioning because they can't handle things. They tend not to make excuses about why their life is going down the toilet, they just sit and watch it happen without doing anything. It's not that they don't care, as I understand it, it's that everything has become too overwhelming to even know where to start, and eventually the only way you can keep going at all is to shut more and more of reality out.

Thats what I was wondering too, though it's hard to with only a limited amount of info. Im not a psychiatrist But many times when you hear that someone has sadly taken their own lives, you hear about how they isolated themselves and cut off everyone around them who cared for months before. It can be a huge red flag. I hope thats not the case here though and I hope matthew is right and it's manipulation.

[Ehwmatt]

Well as his friend maybe you should try knocking on his door instead. Just because whatever the situation might be doesn't seem "bad enough to isolate yourself from the fuckin world" to you doesn't mean it doesn't feel that way to him. Go to him.

I do understand your points, it's just we're all standing in different ballparks now with making points, lol.

I mean I'm not exaggerating. The kid literally has not answered a single call or text message since before Thanksgiving. Not a single one. That's absolutely pathetic behavior. Hell, even my mom's old alcoholic/pill-popping friend didn't drop off the radar for more than a week at a time

To me, with admittedly limited experience, that actually indicates that he really is suffering from clinical depression. The people who are genuinely depressed shut down and isolate, the people who claim depression as an excuse not to deal act like vampires, sucking life, will, help, money, time, compassion, you name it from whomever they can get to listen. If you were telling me you were pissed off with him because he's done nothing but moan to you about how shitty his life is since Thanksgiving, I'd more than agree with your attitude. The fact that he is doing the exact opposite rings some pretty big alarm bells to me. Ditto the picture that his life is in a self-inflicted mess; clinically depressed people stop functioning because they can't handle things. They tend not to make excuses about why their life is going down the toilet, they just sit and watch it happen without doing anything. It's not that they don't care, as I understand it, it's that everything has become too overwhelming to even know where to start, and eventually the only way you can keep going at all is to shut more and more of reality out.

Very good points and certainly ones I've considered. But he's also made plenty of Facebook statuses about how sad his condition is and what not, so I dunno, it's not total isolation. I think he's got something goin on, but it's really a chicken-egg thing... I'm not sure if he's just embarrassed at the shape his life in, thus cuing the quasi-depressed conduct or if he legitimately has something more going on which led him to melt down in the first place.

Dan's met this guy, he's always been totally fun and normal. He's never been prone to this kinda shit other than typical teenage blues about finding a girlfriend