super bowl add featuring Tebow...

[Jana]

When my friend in high school was sixteen, she became pregnant by her first boyfriend.

Oooo I love you so much that this is going to hurt, but stop right there.

I already lose sympathy for her and begin to hold her accountable for responsibly raising her child or to carry it and give it up for abortion.

The sentence itself appears to remove most if not all culpability on her part, too.

Well, I'm, at least, glad it hurt.

Nah, not trying to remove most, if not all, culpability. Just trying to -- never mind. I have to go back to court now and listen to this couple bash each other all afternoon in their divorce trial.

[Ehwmatt]

When my friend in high school was sixteen, she became pregnant by her first boyfriend.

Oooo I love you so much that this is going to hurt, but stop right there.

I already lose sympathy for her and begin to hold her accountable for responsibly raising her child or to carry it and give it up for abortion.

The sentence itself appears to remove most if not all culpability on her part, too.

Well, I'm, at least, glad it hurt.

Nah, not trying to remove most, if not all, culpability. Just trying to -- never mind. I have to go back to court now and listen to this couple bash each other all afternoon in their divorce trial. :wink:

I'll make the popcorn

[hoagiepete]

Oh my...is this the first time the abortion debate has hit MR.com?

It has sure screwed up our state legislature and I hope it doesn't do the same here.

My only comment is, for whatever reason, I am encredulous with how anyone can abort a perfectly healthy unborn baby, and then try to justify it. Especially when we have 1000s of loving couples that want, but can't have children, but can't find children to adopt. It is flat out sad. I know this oh too well based on a close member of my family and what they have been going through the past fifteen years.

Secondly, if there were an abortion clinic in every town, there is a chance I wouldn't be here today. 'nuff said why I may be tainted?

There are legitimate reasons to abort. Convenient form of birth control makes me sick.

well when you become an uninsured woman who gets pregnant and not only couldn't afford to raise it but can't even afford to go to the doctors' appointments or the hospital bills for giving birth, then talk to me about it.

convenient form of birth control my ass... what about the woman who DOES take responsibility and the BC fails? what about Skippy McVirginson over there who never learned how to put on a condom properly and it breaks? what about the girl who didn't exactly consent to it on prom night? the way some of you men talk about it, it's like you think you think women ONLY do it for "birth control". jeesh.

Sorry for the delayed response to this. Come on, jump my shit cause I'm a guy if you want, but read my frickin' comments. I said there are legitimate reasons for some abortion. Used as birth control, it makes me sick!

You conveniently ignored my other comments. I repeat...there are thousands of loving couples out there wanting to adopt but can't. It is true, they will pay for the pre-natel care. That is heartbreaking. You're saying its better to stop a beating heart than going through pregnancy and fulfilling the life of a couple that would give anything to have a child of their own.

Like I said, it seems odd listening to people trying to justify it.

[bluejeangirl76]

Oh my...is this the first time the abortion debate has hit MR.com?

It has sure screwed up our state legislature and I hope it doesn't do the same here.

My only comment is, for whatever reason, I am encredulous with how anyone can abort a perfectly healthy unborn baby, and then try to justify it. Especially when we have 1000s of loving couples that want, but can't have children, but can't find children to adopt. It is flat out sad. I know this oh too well based on a close member of my family and what they have been going through the past fifteen years.

Secondly, if there were an abortion clinic in every town, there is a chance I wouldn't be here today. 'nuff said why I may be tainted?

There are legitimate reasons to abort. Convenient form of birth control makes me sick.

well when you become an uninsured woman who gets pregnant and not only couldn't afford to raise it but can't even afford to go to the doctors' appointments or the hospital bills for giving birth, then talk to me about it.

convenient form of birth control my ass... what about the woman who DOES take responsibility and the BC fails? what about Skippy McVirginson over there who never learned how to put on a condom properly and it breaks? what about the girl who didn't exactly consent to it on prom night? the way some of you men talk about it, it's like you think you think women ONLY do it for "birth control". jeesh.

Sorry for the delayed response to this. Come on, jump my shit cause I'm a guy if you want, but read my frickin' comments. I said there are legitimate reasons for some abortion. Used as birth control, it makes me sick!

What is all this "use it as birth control" stuff? Comments like that make it sound like some of you think women are randomly running around going "ooops, forgot the pill, or oooops didn't feel like driving in the rain to buy condoms, oh well no big deal, I can still get out of it if something happens".

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be. Yes there are legit reasons and yes, SOME women have probably taken the easy way out, but no, it's not convenient. And that was what I jumped on because that keeps getting said in this topic.

I would like to know what some of the guys here with the strong opinions about would do if they woke up tomorrow pregnant, probably single, with a girlfriend you couldn't count on, or when you just weren't ready and had the feeling of "oh my god, what the HELL am I going to do?"

[Red13JoePa]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

[bluejeangirl76]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

[hoagiepete]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

Ok...the same questions apply even if it is "inconvenient" birth control. Sorry I said convenient.

[Red13JoePa]

Psssst: You're not forgiven, BJG, just because you "don't come to the decision" to kill the unborn baby "lightly" either.

"Well I thought really hard about to abort or not abort, but again, the unplanned pregnacy was just too inconvenient."

Every time you come in this thread you make the pro-choicers look WORSE!

[S2M]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

I'm sure the tightrope walker doesn't want to fall off the wire and plummet 200 feet to his death....but knowing the safety net is there to soften the blow, I'm sure, is a huge relief.

[bluejeangirl76]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

I'm sure the tightrope walker doesn't want to fall off the wire and plummet 200 feet to his death....but knowing the safety net is there to soften the blow, I'm sure, is a huge relief.

So you're saying, again, that women in general just randomly have unprotected sex and go "oh well, I have an out if I need one." That's just... wow.

[Saint John]

So you're saying, again, that women in general just randomly have unprotected sex and go "oh well, I have an out if I need one." That's just... wow.

Well, it's either that or The Semen Fairy has been working overtime.

[portland]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

I'm sure the tightrope walker doesn't want to fall off the wire and plummet 200 feet to his death....but knowing the safety net is there to soften the blow, I'm sure, is a huge relief.

So you're saying, again, that women in general just randomly have unprotected sex and go "oh well, I have an out if I need one." That's just... wow.

Yes BJG spoken like a true man......

[Rhiannon]

Well, it's either that or The Semen Fairy has been working overtime.

Yeah, I hear he & Neal wrote two new songs this week. That's probably the case, indeed.

[bluejeangirl76]

Well, it's either that or The Semen Fairy has been working overtime.

Yeah, I hear he & Neal wrote two new songs this week. That's probably the case, indeed.

Pwned.

[Saint John]

Well, it's either that or The Semen Fairy has been working overtime.

Yeah, I hear he & Neal wrote two new songs this week. That's probably the case, indeed.

Pwned.

Um ... it hardly even made sense. Besides, Neal is The Semen Fairy. Sweet dreams tonight, Kim!

[RossValoryRocks]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

I'm sure the tightrope walker doesn't want to fall off the wire and plummet 200 feet to his death....but knowing the safety net is there to soften the blow, I'm sure, is a huge relief.

So you're saying, again, that women in general just randomly have unprotected sex and go "oh well, I have an out if I need one." That's just... wow.

Again I ask...What about the man??

We have a responsibilty as well, and the fact is that usually men ignore that responsibility because usually they don't have to live with the consequences.

BOTH parties to a tryst need to be aware of the repercussions and be held responsible if they ignore common sense.

[SherriBerry]

The only bullshit in this thread is coming from you (and StocktontoMalone). Everyone else has posted their opinion in a respectful manner, no matter what that opinion may be. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated that you are an ignorant and hateful individual who describes any woman who would consider an abortion as "promiscuous" or "loose" - why don't you just write what you mean and state that you think any woman who has sex outside of marriage is a slut?

If you are a Christian, you likely believe that one day you will be judged by God - luckily for you, He will judge you with greater understanding and compassion than you practice as you judge others, an act even Jesus didn't feel righteous enough to take upon himself. No one denies your right to be opposed to abortion, but quite frankly your ridiculous rants only serve to support your opposition.

Please educate me on how my comments were 'bullshit'. My stance was that if women continue to use abortions as 'birth control AFTER the fact'...then that is the issue. That and being really tired of the whole, 'My body, my choice' agenda. Lamest excuse I ever heard. Memo: BTW, it is your body. But funny, it is against the law to help someone youthanize themselves. Double-standard? Methinks it is...

Referring to all women who choose to have an abortion as "c---bags" is what I meant when I included you in spouting bullshit, particularly after Ari had admitted to having one in the past. I'm not challenging your right to be opposed to abortion, just the very nasty manner in which you expressed it.

[bluejeangirl76]

There's nothing convenient about becoming pregnant when one does not want to be.

Sound rationale for an abortion

Oh stop it, that was not the point and you know it. I keep seeing this "convenient form of birth control" shit and I'm interested in where that opinion comes from because the way it's being phrased makes it sound like women are randomly running around getting rid of babies left and right like they would a pair of shoes that doesn't fit and I've yet to meet the woman who treats the situation so casually OR chooses to have have unprotected sex JUST because they know there is a "way out" - essentially a safety net - available to them.

I say there is nothing convenient about becoming pregnant unwantedly because the reaction when it happens is not "Oh, OOOPSIE! Oh well, I'll stop by the clinic on the way to work" which is how some of y'all are making it sound.

I'm sure the tightrope walker doesn't want to fall off the wire and plummet 200 feet to his death....but knowing the safety net is there to soften the blow, I'm sure, is a huge relief.

So you're saying, again, that women in general just randomly have unprotected sex and go "oh well, I have an out if I need one." That's just... wow.

Again I ask...What about the man??

We have a responsibilty as well, and the fact is that usually men ignore that responsibility because usually they don't have to live with the consequences.

BOTH parties to a tryst need to be aware of the repercussions and be held responsible if they ignore common sense.

Yes indeed Stu, I agree fully... what ABOUT the man. According to what these guys are saying here, women just run around using abortion as a convenience. Translation, she's "bad" or it's "her fault" or she was irresponsible. It's real easy to sit there and pass judgment, isn't it boys, but YOUR dick is in there enjoying the party too.

By the way, what about the guy who doesn't want to deal with it and would rather just tell the girl to go get rid of it (whether she wants to or not). I don't hear anyone saying anything about the GUYS who try to use it as a convenient form of birth control. It's real easy for her to just go handle it while the guy does nothing. I have no stats on this, but I'm betting that this one comes up mostly in the teen community. But still...

The bottom line is that the law gives women the choice. And NO it's not an excuse to be irresponsible, and no it is not a convenient out. And I never said it was because that's ridiculous thinking. But whatever the circumstances are, they're her business.

[Saint John]

Yes, the law allows women to be baby killers, but that doesn't make it right. How horrified would people be if I walked up to a gleefully 2 month pregnant woman and used her stomach as a fucking heavy bag? That's the way we (rational) see it when they opt to abort a perfectly beautiful little innocent creature. Rape and incest cases excluded, of course.

[SherriBerry]

Hardly has to do with my feelings on women.
I live with 3 amazing ones.
That's just more obfuscation there.

Has to do with my feelings on defenseless children and those that would harm or kill them.

Rape and incest are complex issues, to be sure.

But if you'd just act responsibly, and stop looking to blame society and everybody else for putting you in sitatuations that would put our unborn in harm's way most of these arguments would be moot.


And PS Sherri, Arian and BJG, let me be clear that I am speaking about the pro-choice movement as a whole not trying to criticize your personal situations, whatever they may be, as I know nothing about them.

I've never been in the situation of even thinking I may be pregnant, and the irony is that though I don't have any plans to have children, if I found myself unmarried and pregnant, I'm 99% sure I would choose to have the baby and lovingly raise it myself. But I am lucky - I live in Canada where I have free health care and social programs to help, plus a wonderful family who would help me in every way. My parents are very old fashioned and at one time would have been very upset and disappointed at the idea of a daughter who was unmarried and pregnant. Now in their sixties with two kids who have no plans on giving them grandchildren, I think they would throw a parade!

That isn't the situation for most women who choose to have an abortion and though I doubt I would ever have one myself, except for in the absolute worst circumstances, I would never take away the right to choose for someone else.

As for acting responsibly, as you have stated that you are also against birth control, you must believe that it is wrong to have sex outside of marriage which would explain your reference to all women in this situation as "promiscuous". What is your solution to make the men who are also responsible accountable for their actions? It seems that you expect everyone to follow your religious beliefs, but every practicing Catholic I know ignores the Church ruling on birth control!

[Angel]

Yes, the law allows women to be baby killers, but that doesn't make it right. How horrified would people be if I walked up to a gleefully 2 month pregnant woman and used her stomach as a fucking heavy bag? That's the way we (rational) see it when they opt to abort a perfectly beautiful little innocent creature. Rape and incest cases excluded, of course.

Apparently the act is far more acceptable if the woman herself decides to kill the embryo/fetus/baby (use whatever terminology you like).

I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of "Some women could never give their baby up for adoption so they choose abortion...." Something doesn't quite add up.

[bluejeangirl76]

Yes, the law allows women to be baby killers, but that doesn't make it right. How horrified would people be if I walked up to a gleefully 2 month pregnant woman and used her stomach as a fucking heavy bag? That's the way we (rational) see it when they opt to abort a perfectly beautiful little innocent creature. Rape and incest cases excluded, of course.

hold on... why do you exclude those cases?

granted, I agree, but I'm interested why it's ok to choose to end some pregnancies and not others. if women who have abortions are, as you say, baby killers, then they are still killing a baby regardless of the circumstances in which it was conceived, are they not?

Let me see... I'm sure you'll say that a rape victim doesn't choose to have sex while the women whose condom broke did choose to, so even though both are victims of circumstance, and both become pregnant, only one should be "allowed" to abort it. if it's a "perfectly beautiful innocent creature" then why is it ok to kill it in special circumstances?

[RossValoryRocks]

I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of "Some women could never give their baby up for adoption so they choose abortion...." Something doesn't quite add up.

Actually it's easy...

Dead is dead and gone is gone...but the thought that somewhere out there a child that is thier biologically can come back to haunt a person constantly...where thoughts about having an abortion probably are not dwelled upon constantly after a time.

Again though...I think the government has no right to tell a women what to do with her body, up to a certain point, after which the rights of the unborn have to be taken into consideration.

And I agree using abortion as birth controll, and make no mistake that is what it is used for in 90% or so of cases, not for the life of a women, not due to birth defects, or rape or incest, is abhorrent but lots of things people due I find abhorrent, but that doesn't mean I believe the government has the right to deny THEIR rights to do so.

[RossValoryRocks]

Yes, the law allows women to be baby killers, but that doesn't make it right. How horrified would people be if I walked up to a gleefully 2 month pregnant woman and used her stomach as a fucking heavy bag? That's the way we (rational) see it when they opt to abort a perfectly beautiful little innocent creature. Rape and incest cases excluded, of course.

hold on... why do you exclude those cases?

granted, I agree, but I'm interested why it's ok to choose to end some pregnancies and not others. if women who have abortions are, as you say, baby killers, then they are still killing a baby regardless of the circumstances in which it was conceived, are they not?

Let me see... I'm sure you'll say that a rape victim doesn't choose to have sex while the women whose condom broke did choose to, so even though both are victims of circumstance, and both become pregnant, only one should be "allowed" to abort it. if it's a "perfectly beautiful innocent creature" then why is it ok to kill it in special circumstances?

That is a strawman argument and you know it. But I will presume to answer for Dan...

In the case of rape, the womans life could be more devastated and traumatized by the birth of the child than by aborting it EARLY ON (NOTE THE CAPS, if it is viable then I think the child has rights at that point). In the case of incest the risk of catastrophic birth defect and again the potential devastation to the women make it obvious.

You keep using the broken condom thing, well if you aren't smart enough to use a condom correctly, and this goes for guys as well as girls then you probably shouldn't be having sex.

[Saint John]

Apparently the act is far more acceptable if the woman herself decides to kill the embryo/fetus/baby (use whatever terminology you like)

Of course it is, and it's always weakly rationalized with the "my body=my choice" mantra. Well guess what ... fuck you, fuck your body and fuck your mantra! If you want to "choose" to have an abortion, then prepare to be labeled a baby killer by some.

Personally, I'm against it, but not enough to really give a shit outside of this board. The way I see it, if someone that wants to kill their baby chooses to do so, the world probably has one less tree-hugging, liberal asshole to deal with. That's more than likely how the little fucker would have turned out being raised by such a dope, anyway. Some bearded hippie fuck staggering around life stoned going from Phish concert to Phish concert.

[Ehwmatt]

You keep using the broken condom thing, well if you aren't smart enough to use a condom correctly, and this goes for guys as well as girls then you probably shouldn't be having sex.

I've had one break on me ever and it's pretty tough to do. And it was pretty obvious it was broken before the big moment. You'd have to be a mental midget to accidentally get pregnant this way, especially considering most younger women are on the pill as it is. Not to mention Plan B.

If you are relying on the pill all by itself and you are still nutting inside, then you're taking your fuckin chances and shouldn't be surprised if it fails. Only married couples practicing "birth control" but otherwise financially and mentally ready to handle a child should rely on the pill alone and not a condom too or at least a pull out.

[Saint John]

Yes, the law allows women to be baby killers, but that doesn't make it right. How horrified would people be if I walked up to a gleefully 2 month pregnant woman and used her stomach as a fucking heavy bag? That's the way we (rational) see it when they opt to abort a perfectly beautiful little innocent creature. Rape and incest cases excluded, of course.

hold on... why do you exclude those cases?

granted, I agree, but I'm interested why it's ok to choose to end some pregnancies and not others. if women who have abortions are, as you say, baby killers, then they are still killing a baby regardless of the circumstances in which it was conceived, are they not?

Let me see... I'm sure you'll say that a rape victim doesn't choose to have sex while the women whose condom broke did choose to, so even though both are victims of circumstance, and both become pregnant, only one should be "allowed" to abort it. if it's a "perfectly beautiful innocent creature" then why is it ok to kill it in special circumstances?

Good question and excellent observation(s). It really boils down to accountability, Kim. And I just can't hold a rape victim accountable and have them reminded of a horrific event for their rest of her life. But I can hold someone accountable that took a calculated risk and lost. Their burden is exponentially less and not only were they not the victim of a crime, but they were a willing participant ... man and woman. Assuming you (not you personally) believe in God, I think pretty much anyone could look The Big Guy (Yes, he is a man, bitches! ) in the eye and ask him to understand your rationale for the choice you made. Not so much when you try "Um, God, Johnny wore a rubber and I figured riding him in the backseat of his '79 Camaro also gave me the advantage of gravity."

[Ehwmatt]

Yes, the law allows women to be baby killers, but that doesn't make it right. How horrified would people be if I walked up to a gleefully 2 month pregnant woman and used her stomach as a fucking heavy bag? That's the way we (rational) see it when they opt to abort a perfectly beautiful little innocent creature. Rape and incest cases excluded, of course.

hold on... why do you exclude those cases?

granted, I agree, but I'm interested why it's ok to choose to end some pregnancies and not others. if women who have abortions are, as you say, baby killers, then they are still killing a baby regardless of the circumstances in which it was conceived, are they not?

Let me see... I'm sure you'll say that a rape victim doesn't choose to have sex while the women whose condom broke did choose to, so even though both are victims of circumstance, and both become pregnant, only one should be "allowed" to abort it. if it's a "perfectly beautiful innocent creature" then why is it ok to kill it in special circumstances?

Good question and excellent observation(s). It really boils down to accountability, Kim. And I just can't hold a rape victim accountable and have them reminded of a horrific event for their rest of her life. But I can hold someone accountable that took a calculated risk and lost. Their burden is exponentially less and not only were they not the victim of a crime, but they were a willing participant ... man and woman. Assuming you (not you personally) believe in God, I think pretty much anyone could look The Big Guy (Yes, he is a man, bitches! ) in the eye and ask him to understand your rationale for the choice you made. Not so much when you try "Um, God, Johnny wore a rubber and I figured riding him in the backseat of his '79 Camaro also gave me the advantage of gravity."

lol dude, pure gold as usual

[ProgRocker53]

Well, it's either that or The Semen Fairy has been working overtime.

Yeah, I hear he & Neal wrote two new songs this week. That's probably the case, indeed.

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[S2M]

Referring to all women who choose to have an abortion as "c---bags" is what I meant when I included you in spouting bullshit, particularly after Ari had admitted to having one in the past. I'm not challenging your right to be opposed to abortion, just the very nasty manner in which you expressed it.

Pardon me....I meant to use the more pussified, PC-term - Vagina Pouches. Thank you for calling me on that....