Did the discovery of cooking make us human?

[Don]

Cooking is something we all take for granted but a new theory suggests that if we had not learned to cook food, not only would we still look like chimps but, like them, we would also be compelled to spend most of the day chewing.

Without cooking, an average person would have to eat around five kilos of raw food to get enough calories to survive.

The daily mountain of fruit and vegetables would mean a six-hour chewing marathon.

It is already accepted that the introduction of meat into our ancestors' diet caused their brains to grow and their intelligence to increase.

Meat - a more concentrated form of energy - not only meant bigger brains for our ancestors, but also an end to the need to devote nearly all their time to foraging to maintain energy levels.

As a consequence, more time was available for social structure to develop.

Harvard Professor Richard Wrangham believes there is more to it than simply discovering meat.

He thinks that it is not so much a change in the ingredients of our diet, but the way in which we prepare them that has caused the radical evolution of our species.

"I think cooking is arguably the biggest increase in the quality of the diet in the whole of the history of life," he says.

"Our ancestors most probably dropped food in fire accidently. They would have found it was delicious and that set us off on a whole new direction."

To understand how and when our bodies changed, we need to take a closer look at what our ancestors ate by studying the fossil records.

Our earliest ancestor was the ape-like Australopithecus.

Australopithecus had a large belly containing a big large-intestine, essential to digest the robust plant matter, and had large, flat teeth which it used for grinding and crushing tough vegetation.

None the less, it was Australopithecus that moved out of the trees and onto the African savannah, and started to eat the animals that grazed there.

And it was this change of habitat, lifestyle and diet that also prompted major changes in anatomy.

The eating of meat ties in with an evolutionary shift 2.3 million years ago resulting in a more human-looking ancestor with sharper teeth and a 30% bigger brain, called Homo habilis.

The most momentous shift however, happened 1.8 million years ago when Homo erectus - our first "truly human" ancestor arrived on the scene.

Homo erectus had an even bigger brain, smaller jaws and teeth.

Erectus also had a similar body shape to us. Shorter arms and longer legs appeared, and gone was the large vegetable-processing gut, meaning that Erectus could not only walk upright, but could also run.

He was cleverer and faster, and - according to Professor Wrangham - he had learned how to cook.

"Cooking made our guts smaller," he says. "Once we cooked our food, we didn't need big guts.

"They're costly in terms of energy. Individuals that were born with small guts were able to save energy, have more babies and survive better."

Professor Peter Wheeler from Liverpool John Moores University and his colleague, Leslie Aiello, think it was this change in our digestive system that specifically allowed our brains to get larger.

Cooking food breaks down its cells, meaning that our stomachs need to do less work to liberate the nutrients our bodies need.

This, says Wheeler, "freed up energy which could then be used to power a larger brain. The increase in brain-size mirrors the reduction in the size of the gut."

Significantly Wheeler and Aiello found that the reduction in the size of our digestive system was exactly the same amount that our brains grew by - 20%.

Professor Stephen Secor at the University of Alabama found that not only does cooked food release more energy, but the body uses less energy in digesting it.

He uses pythons as a model for digestion as they stay still for up to six days while digesting a meal. This makes them the perfect model as the only energy they expend is on digestion.

His research shows that pythons use 24% less energy digesting cooked meat, compared with raw.

So being human might all be down to energy.

Cooking is essentially a form of pre-digestion, which has transferred energy use from our guts to our brains.

According to Professors Wheeler and Wrangham and their colleagues, it is no coincidence that humans - the cleverest species on earth - are also the only species that cooks.

[Behshad]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

[Babyblue]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

[Don]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

Over time, in the correct environment, it probably could happen (We are talking 100 of thousands of years though) We've only only been on this planet one tenth the time the dinosaurs actually were around before they got done in. We can't even imagine how much far evolution will take us, provided we don't create our own extinction over the next few Millennium.

[Behshad]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

Over time, in the correct environment, it probably could happen (We are talking 100 of thousands of years though) We've only only been on this planet one tenth the time the dinosaurs actually were around before they got done in. We can't even imagine how much far evolution will take us, provided we don't create our own extinction over the next few Millennium.

Are you on some kind of drugs ?!
And is cooking all it takes or do we have to teach them how to post on MR ?!

[Don]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

Over time, in the correct environment, it probably could happen (We are talking 100 of thousands of years though) We've only only been on this planet one tenth the time the dinosaurs actually were around before they got done in. We can't even imagine how much far evolution will take us, provided we don't create our own extinction over the next few Millennium.

Are you on some kind of drugs ?!
And is cooking all it takes or do we have to teach them how to post on MR ?!

I don't think we just showed up wearing fig leafs and talking to snakes. Obviously, the whole environment would have to be there for them to evolve into what we have become but since that step in evolution has passed, there can be not benefit in trying to recreate it artificially.

[DrFU]

I got distracted at "homo erectus" ...

[Don]

I got distracted at "homo erectus" ...

Shit, you actually beat stevew2 to it.

[Behshad]

Are you serious gunny !?!

[Arianddu]

Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.

[Behshad]

Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.

another nutcase joins the crowd.

[Arianddu]

Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.

another nutcase joins the crowd.

Just because the little green men in my radio tell me to look out for beagles in raincoats doesn't mean I'm a nutcase!

[Behshad]

Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.

another nutcase joins the crowd.

Just because the little green men in my radio tell me to look out for beagles in raincoats doesn't mean I'm a nutcase!

You feed a monkey fish for few years and let's see how he starts talking and cooking and even attending MRF V in 10 years

[steveo777]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

Over time, in the correct environment, it probably could happen (We are talking 100 of thousands of years though) We've only only been on this planet one tenth the time the dinosaurs actually were around before they got done in. We can't even imagine how much far evolution will take us, provided we don't create our own extinction over the next few Millennium.

Sorry, but I'm not cleaning their fucking cages for that long!!!

[Behshad]

Yea with that logic, if you start teaching a monkey to cook , it's kids will be born human beings

Over time, in the correct environment, it probably could happen (We are talking 100 of thousands of years though) We've only only been on this planet one tenth the time the dinosaurs actually were around before they got done in. We can't even imagine how much far evolution will take us, provided we don't create our own extinction over the next few Millennium.

Sorry, but I'm not cleaning their fucking cages for that long!!!

I'm with steveo

[Don]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

[Behshad]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

I believe in anything BUT the monkey deal. How come the "process " stopped and no more monkeys become humans?!

[StevePerryHair]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

Well, there's always the alien theory! That might be more believable than the apes

[steveo777]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

Well, there's always the alien theory! That might be more believable than the apes

So that's where you came from........

[Arianddu]

Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.

another nutcase joins the crowd.

Just because the little green men in my radio tell me to look out for beagles in raincoats doesn't mean I'm a nutcase!

You feed a monkey fish for few years and let's see how he starts talking and cooking and even attending MRF V in 10 years

B sweetie, that's not how evolution works. Observe a group of apes, not the monkeys, in an environment where fish is an accessable part of their diet. The apes' offspring are slighly more intelligent than the offspring of the apes in the next territory over, where fish is not an accessable part of their diet. Not a hell of a lot more, just a little bit, maybe just enough to ensure they don't get eaten by predators quite so frequently, or just enough that a few of them can work out how to get a different food source when times are tough. Over multiple generations, the fish eating apes have an advantage over the non-fish eating apes, because the smarter fish eating apes have survived where the not-so-smart fish eating apes have died off before breeding, so the population as a whole is now smarter than the neighbouring non-fish eating apes. That population advantage gives them the edge over their neighbouring apes, so that there is more likelihood that the slightly smarter-fish eating ape decendents of our original apes will out-compete the decendents of our original non-fish eating apes, thus providing pressure for the survival of the smarter apes at the expense of the not-so-smart apes.

Extrapolate that by a million years. Throw in multiple other advantages as population-wide intelligence gradually increases. Factor in learned behaviour. Now throw in cooking, where suddenly the potentially edible food spectrum increases phenominally; not only are more foods able to be eaten, foods that are already eaten become easier to digest, and there is the added bonus of bacterial and parasitic contamination being reduced. This gives our proto-human population a HUGE advantage over competing species, and in all probablility lead to a population explosion (the usual response to a radical increase in food availability.)

Anyone who enters a debate on evolution and a) talks about it in terms of individuals and one generation, and/or b) talks about monkeys in relation to human evolution, automatically disqualifies themselves from the right to expect any kind of respect for their views. If you aren't educated enough to know those very basic things, you sure as hell don't know enough to form an argument worth listening to. It's the equivalent of someone who can't tell the difference between a car key and a piano key presuming to argue the best way to customise a kit-car.

[Don]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

I believe in anything BUT the monkey deal. How come the "process " stopped and no more monkeys become humans?!

It branched off more than stopped. Just like other species, hence all the different cats and marsupials and other variants out there.

[Behshad]

Ari. You may come from apes sweetie. But I'm 100% human all the way back to greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat not so great great great great great great great great great grandpa!

Evolution is for suckers. Which is proven right in this thread with you and gunny being believers.

[Behshad]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

I believe in anything BUT the monkey deal. How come the "process " stopped and no more monkeys become humans?!

It branched off more than stopped. Just like other species, hence all the different cats and marsupials and other variants out there.

You take two different cats or two different dogs or two different horses and mate them , you still get an offspring. Have any ape mate with a human and tell me if you get any kind of offsprings. Fact!

[Don]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

I believe in anything BUT the monkey deal. How come the "process " stopped and no more monkeys become humans?!

It branched off more than stopped. Just like other species, hence all the different cats and marsupials and other variants out there.

You take two different cats or two different dogs or two different horses and mate them , you still get an offspring. Have any ape mate with a human and tell me if you get any kind of offsprings. Fact!

Dude, you are using a time line that is too short, you need to think in millions of years. Are you one of those who believe that the earth is only 20k years old and god planted fossils as an April Fools joke?

[Arianddu]

Ari. You may come from apes sweetie. But I'm 100% human all the way back to greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat greatgreat not so great great great great great great great great great grandpa!

Evolution is for suckers. Which is proven right in this thread with you and gunny being believers.

Sorry honey; biology, genetics, comparative anatomy, cross transmission of disease - it all says you ARE an ape. Homo Sapiens, member of the ape family. The naked ape, even.

But if you want to believe God waved his hand and said 'Abracadabra', that's your headspace, not mine. Personally I'm of the opinion, if you have an omnipient, omniescent being creating life, using the tools of evolution is a hell of a lot more god-like than waving a magic god-wand or speaking the magic word. It's why I don't have an issue with the concept of intelligent design; I just have an issue with people claiming it proves God exists, or trying to use it to deny evolution occurs at all, or insisting it be taught as hard science when it's actually religious philosophy.

But what the hell, B - you breed some pretty cute kids. Bring on more singing B-babies on YouTube!

[Behshad]

I take it you guys are in the NAKED DUDE MINUS ONE RIB crowd?

I believe in anything BUT the monkey deal. How come the "process " stopped and no more monkeys become humans?!

It branched off more than stopped. Just like other species, hence all the different cats and marsupials and other variants out there.

You take two different cats or two different dogs or two different horses and mate them , you still get an offspring. Have any ape mate with a human and tell me if you get any kind of offsprings. Fact!

Dude, you are using a time line that is too short, you need to think in millions of years. Are you one of those who believe that the earth is only 20k years old and god planted fossils as an April Fools joke?

You brought up cats. Why the need of time line. If we are sharing the same genetics as apes , then why does timeline only limit us ?! How come it doesn't limit different breeds of cats and dogs and horses ?!
And are you saying that maybe in 1 million years there will be some of these monkeys mating with us humans and create new humonkey babies ?!

Let's just agree on disagreeing cause I'm not gonna convince you that your opinion in this matter is crap and you're not gonna convince me to buy the crap

[Don]

I believe in a creator, the beauty that is our universe proves to me the wonderful glory of that. What I don't agree with though are those people who couldn't grasp the enormity of what is and hence, confined their own version of events into a book to cloak their ignorance of the truth and to position themselves as keepers of the supreme knowledge of how man originated.

I don't have all the answers, if I did I guess I would be classified as an atheist but I'm not quite vain enough to fall into that category.

I can agree to disagree though, as we're not going to convince each other of anything different obviously.

[Arianddu]

You take two different cats or two different dogs or two different horses and mate them , you still get an offspring. Have any ape mate with a human and tell me if you get any kind of offsprings. Fact!

Sigh. Degrees of genetic seperation. A labrador and an alsatian are the same species. A mustang and a clydesdale are the same species. Of course they will breed. The inability to viably cross-breed is one of the definitions of seperation of individual species.

Tigers and Lions mating produce genetically unviable (e.g. sterile) offspring. Mate a horse and a donkey - same thing. There is strong evidence that bono chimps and humans could mate and produce a sterile offspring, but no one is going to do it.

If you want to talk domestic dogs - we've got dogs of every size, colour and temperament, and they can all interbreed, because they are all the same species. Human selective pressure gave us chihuahuas, Great Danes, beagles, greyhounds, St Bernards and malamutes. Guess what? We've got people of every size, colour and temperament too. Evolutionary selective pressure gave us people with higher levels of sun-damgage-protecting melanin in hot, sunny environements, people with slower metabolism and better insulating fat storage in cold environments, and so on. People selected dogs for extremes in size by taking the very smallest, or the very biggest and breeding them; nature didn't select people for extremes in size, but we still have anomalies on both ends of the size spectrum, and if we bred those people together, we'd wind up with populations of giants and pygmies... and hey, what do you know! Isolated populations have produced both; pygmies in an isolated region of Africa, and getting to giant-size in the Polynesian islands.

Like I said before B, you obviously don't know enough of basic biology to make any kind of argument. When you've done a little real learning, I'll listen, until then, sorry sweetie but you're babbling rubbish.

[Behshad]

Ari
I know enough about biology to base my opinion on.
Your opinions are not on basic biology.there are no FACT and or PROOF that say 100% we come from the apes , same as there aren't any 100% proof that we come from Adam & eve.

You can't babble on with you stuff like a parrot and believing thing blindly , making yourself think you know more than others. But none of that is FACTS that backs your evolution theory affecting human beings. Arguing this with you would bs like arguing with Jehovas Witness'. It's your way or the highway.

So instead of trying to tell me that the mumbo jumbo you blindly follow is BIOLOGY , try to keep an open mind , cause maybe JUST MAYBE , you and your theories may be wrong.

[Monker]

Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.

I guess that proves the theory that if you give a monkey a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a monkey to fish and he starts talking, learns to use a gun, takes over the post-apocalyptic world and enslaves humans, and Charlton Heston starts screaming "Damn you! Damn you all to Hell!"