Did the discovery of cooking make us human?

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby artist4perry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:39 pm

Arianddu wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Arianddu wrote:Actually, there's a hell of a lot of evidence that says it was eating fish, not meat, that lead to our brain development. Chimps eat only slightly less meat than most hunter-gatherer societies.


another nutcase joins the crowd. :lol:


Just because the little green men in my radio tell me to look out for beagles in raincoats doesn't mean I'm a nutcase!


Oh thank goodness....................you hear them too? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: The tall one is pretty cute ya know............dibs........ :wink: :lol:
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Postby G.I.Jim » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:39 pm

This will be interesting... Can someone give me one definitive example of macro evolution? Just to clarify, macro is changing from one KIND of animal into another. On the other hand, there is micro evolution such as different varieties of dogs, plants, etc... Anyone?
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Postby artist4perry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:40 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:This will be interesting... Can someone give me one definitive example of macro evolution? Just to clarify, macro is changing from one KIND of animal into another. On the other hand, there is micro evolution such as different varieties of dogs, plants, etc... Anyone?


And you guys think I do drugs when I draw............sheesh. :roll: :roll: :wink: :lol: :P
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:11 am

Behshad wrote:Ari
I know enough about biology to base my opinion on.
Your opinions are not on basic biology.there are no FACT and or PROOF that say 100% we come from the apes , same as there aren't any 100% proof that we come from Adam & eve.

You can't babble on with you stuff like a parrot and believing thing blindly , making yourself think you know more than others. But none of that is FACTS that backs your evolution theory affecting human beings. Arguing this with you would bs like arguing with Jehovas Witness'. It's your way or the highway.

So instead of trying to tell me that the mumbo jumbo you blindly follow is BIOLOGY , try to keep an open mind , cause maybe JUST MAYBE , you and your theories may be wrong.


Oh dear. B, I love ya babe, but you're talking out your arse. Your statements on evolutionary biology are about on par with someone telling a mechanic that everyone knows keys open doors and you can't use a house key to make a car move, so don't try and tell me the internal combustion engine exists.

I'm not the one with the closed mind here; I accept that there is room for the presence of a god I don't believe in within the framework of evolutionary theory; I'm open to reinterpretation of the explainations for observable evidence that we have; I don't believe blindly, I consider evidence and current thought from a wide range of sources, and I have my own ideas based on what I understand and what seems the most logical conclusion to draw from it all. I accept that there are things I don't know, there are things I don't understand and that there are things I haven't had the time to learn about, and so there are somethings I accept on trust, based on how reliable I think my informant is, but I'm also willing to change my views based on further information and evidence. I'm not the one saying it's all bullshit because I don't believe it, and shooting off crap that exposes how little I actually understand of the matter.

Now, let's get back to talking about music, sex, amusing cock-ups and weird-arse shit - stuff you actually have some authority on. ;)
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:12 am

artist4perry wrote:
Arianddu wrote:Just because the little green men in my radio tell me to look out for beagles in raincoats doesn't mean I'm a nutcase!


Oh thank goodness....................you hear them too? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: The tall one is pretty cute ya know............dibs........ :wink: :lol:


You can have the tall little green man, but I'm keeping the tall beagle in a raincoat. ;)
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:13 am

It's a fascinating topic with many unanswered questions, that's for sure. That's all I have to say on this stuff.
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Postby parfait » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:23 am

Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:26 am

parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Except theories are not facts. I think that is the point that some are trying to make. As long as things are theories, there is no 100% proof. There is evidence, but not enough to make the leap from theory to proof.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:27 am

parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Well NOW that you put it that way I guess I have to follow ,,, :roll:
Show me the facts kid,,, its 2010, show me the facts that you are holding in your hand,,, while youre at it, why dont you use the same facts and tell us how big the universe it and exactly when Day One this universe started, and what was there before that ? what? you stuttering again,,,, punk ass french kid coming here with his weak bladder and tiny cock trying to teach us about facts?
Do us a favor and once you get through med school, STAY IN FRANCE! Even fucking Dr Pepper could cure better than you, filthy eurotrash..... 8)
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:30 am

Behshad wrote:
parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Well NOW that you put it that way I guess I have to follow ,,, :roll:
Show me the facts kid,,, its 2010, show me the facts that you are holding in your hand,,, while youre at it, why dont you use the same facts and tell us how big the universe it and exactly when Day One this universe started, and what was there before that ? what? you stuttering again,,,, punk ass french kid coming here with his weak bladder and tiny cock trying to teach us about facts?
Do us a favor and once you get through med school, STAY IN FRANCE! Even fucking Dr Pepper could cure better than you, filthy eurotrash..... 8)


Spoken like a true American with a hint of an al Qaeda accent :lol: :lol:
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:58 am

G.I.Jim wrote:This will be interesting... Can someone give me one definitive example of macro evolution? Just to clarify, macro is changing from one KIND of animal into another. On the other hand, there is micro evolution such as different varieties of dogs, plants, etc... Anyone?


I've never come across those terms, and your explaination of them is just not how evolution works. Living organisms differentiate, they don't morph from one 'kind' of thing into another 'kind' of thing; you have groups of related species, each one a bit different from the nearest related ones, and each one more likely to be a lot more different to the not-so-closely related ones. The differentiation of species over time is not linear and not morphic, it's based on what you could call family trees. Monkeys don't turn into humans and never will, but there is evidence that modern monkeys, apes and humans all had common ancestors. Apes and humans have more recent common ancestors; you have to go back further still to find our common ancestor with monkeys. We don't have 'new' humans coming from monkeys for the same reason your sixth cousin five times removed isn't going to give birth to a new you.

If you want examples of how one animal 'becomes' another, you only have to look at any group of related species. Finches and giant tortoises in the Galapagos are great examples - they were the trigger for Darwin's initial theory of evolution; a theory we've been refining and working on ever since.

Now, can I point at a population and say 'look, here is a baby whatchamacallit, see how it's head is bigger than it's mommy's head, that's because it's on its way to becoming a new species called a big-headed-whatchamacallit' then no, I can't, any more than you can sit and watch the Himalayas growing taller; they are, just not on a time scale you can be aware of. The time-scale for evolution operates over many multiple generations; you can't point at an individual, or even a population, and say 'here is the change'. It just doesn't work that way.
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Postby parfait » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:01 am

Behshad wrote:
parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Well NOW that you put it that way I guess I have to follow ,,, :roll:
Show me the facts kid,,, its 2010, show me the facts that you are holding in your hand,,, while youre at it, why dont you use the same facts and tell us how big the universe it and exactly when Day One this universe started, and what was there before that ? what? you stuttering again,,,, punk ass french kid coming here with his weak bladder and tiny cock trying to teach us about facts?
Do us a favor and once you get through med school, STAY IN FRANCE! Even fucking Dr Pepper could cure better than you, filthy eurotrash..... 8)


Why aren't I surprised when the MR's own inbred piece of asslint quotes me.. Here's some facts for you (read them before you quote my reply with some stupid ass remark):

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Science-Religion/2005/11/The-Problem-With-God-Interview-With-Richard-Dawkins.aspx


http://books.google.no/books?id=1bUoIpTQbLYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=evolution+true&source=bl&ots=dm-BogpfWR&sig=kaiwaSWpfCJGoy4kUOU78CI41LE&hl=no&ei=rIKOS9utOYPc-QbB0JXdCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCoQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

If that' not enough for you, I've got loads more.

Now, the universe is approx. 13.75+/-0.17 billion years old. ( This model is well understood theoretically and strongly supported by recent high-precision astronomical observations such as WMAP. )

And dude, I don't know what kind of education you got, and you can believe in Thor, Ganesha or El or whatever the fuck you want; but don't come and tell me that the evolution theory (first you got to understand what a scientif theory is; it's a hypothesis that has been proven so many times that there's infact nothing that can disapprove it, thus it becomes a scientific theory, or what in colloquial terms would be called a GOD DAMN FACT) is not proven. Cause already there you show yourself to be a true and tried moron. I'm not talking about the kind of moron who puts on their sweaters the wrong way (though I think you do that too), but the kind of moron who is in fact holding back the rest of us.

"Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it."
Richard Dawkins



"The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry."
Richard Dawkins

Beshad, I can keep doing this shit all day. You can call me whatever you want, but that doesn't make you any less of a ignorant moron.

Take a look at this too, man:

http://images.google.no/imgres?imgurl=http://www.durangobill.com/CreationismPics/CreationismProof.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.durangobill.com/Creationists_Fears.html&usg=__2nlNxd10M4ScpHx07-YurPzQ5EE=&h=420&w=525&sz=60&hl=no&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=bGQ9NFIQMsgwiM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcreationists%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dno%26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dnb%26tbs%3Disch:1

I won't reply to your post unless you really read through the links I've provided. If you then think evolution is not the right way to go; then I just got to call your momma and tell her to put you back into whatever cave she found you in)
Last edited by parfait on Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:01 am

Arianddu wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:This will be interesting... Can someone give me one definitive example of macro evolution? Just to clarify, macro is changing from one KIND of animal into another. On the other hand, there is micro evolution such as different varieties of dogs, plants, etc... Anyone?


I've never come across those terms, and your explaination of them is just not how evolution works. Living organisms differentiate, they don't morph from one 'kind' of thing into another 'kind' of thing; you have groups of related species, each one a bit different from the nearest related ones, and each one more likely to be a lot more different to the not-so-closely related ones. The differentiation of species over time is not linear and not morphic, it's based on what you could call family trees. Monkeys don't turn into humans and never will, but there is evidence that modern monkeys, apes and humans all had common ancestors. Apes and humans have more recent common ancestors; you have to go back further still to find our common ancestor with monkeys. We don't have 'new' humans coming from monkeys for the same reason your sixth cousin five times removed isn't going to give birth to a new you.

If you want examples of how one animal 'becomes' another, you only have to look at any group of related species. Finches and giant tortoises in the Galapagos are great examples - they were the trigger for Darwin's initial theory of evolution; a theory we've been refining and working on ever since.

Now, can I point at a population and say 'look, here is a baby whatchamacallit, see how it's head is bigger than it's mommy's head, that's because it's on its way to becoming a new species called a big-headed-whatchamacallit' then no, I can't, any more than you can sit and watch the Himalayas growing taller; they are, just not on a time scale you can be aware of. The time-scale for evolution operates over many multiple generations; you can't point at an individual, or even a population, and say 'here is the change'. It just doesn't work that way.



So youre telling me that not one single ape from 8000 generations ago, made it far enough to OUR TIME , 8000 generations later, to slighty differ from other monkies and start acting more like humans ?
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:06 am

StevePerryHair wrote:
parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Except theories are not facts. I think that is the point that some are trying to make. As long as things are theories, there is no 100% proof. There is evidence, but not enough to make the leap from theory to proof.


Science never proves things right, it only proves things wrong, or says 'based on what we know, this is what we think is the most likely reason for X to occur, and we haven't been able to prove that explaination is wrong yet.' In science, a theory is not a speculation, it's an explaination that takes into account everything we currently know on a subject. As we learn more, the theory gets changed to account for it. That's what so many people have a hard time accepting.

Philosophers, detectives and investigative reporters claim to have proof; scientists claim to have explainations. Big difference.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:10 am

parfait wrote:
Behshad wrote:
parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Well NOW that you put it that way I guess I have to follow ,,, :roll:
Show me the facts kid,,, its 2010, show me the facts that you are holding in your hand,,, while youre at it, why dont you use the same facts and tell us how big the universe it and exactly when Day One this universe started, and what was there before that ? what? you stuttering again,,,, punk ass french kid coming here with his weak bladder and tiny cock trying to teach us about facts?
Do us a favor and once you get through med school, STAY IN FRANCE! Even fucking Dr Pepper could cure better than you, filthy eurotrash..... 8)


Why aren't I surprised when the MR's own inbred piece of asslint quotes me.. Here's some facts for you (read them before you quote my reply with some stupid ass remark):

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Science-Religion/2005/11/The-Problem-With-God-Interview-With-Richard-Dawkins.aspx


http://books.google.no/books?id=1bUoIpTQbLYC&printsec=frontcover&dq=evolution+true&source=bl&ots=dm-BogpfWR&sig=kaiwaSWpfCJGoy4kUOU78CI41LE&hl=no&ei=rIKOS9utOYPc-QbB0JXdCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCoQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

If that' not enough for you, I've got loads more.

Now, the universe is approx. 13.75+/-0.17 billion years old. ( This model is well understood theoretically and strongly supported by recent high-precision astronomical observations such as WMAP. )

And dude, I don't know what kind of education you got, and you can believe in Thor, Ganesha or El or whatever the fuck you want; but don't come and tell me that the evolution theory (first you got to understand what a scientif theory is; it's a hypothesis that has been proven so many times that there's infact nothing that can disapprove it, thus it becomes a scientific theory, or what in colloquial terms would be called a GOD DAMN FACT) is not proven. Cause already there you show yourself to be a true and tried moron. I'm not talking about the kind of moron who puts on their sweaters the wrong way (though I think you do that too), but the kind of moron who is in fact holding back the rest of us.

"Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won't know it, and may even vigorously deny it."
Richard Dawkins



"The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry."
Richard Dawkins

Beshad, I can keep doing this shit all day. You can call me whatever you want, but that doesn't make you any less of a ignorant moron.

Take a look at this too, man:

http://images.google.no/imgres?imgurl=http://www.durangobill.com/CreationismPics/CreationismProof.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.durangobill.com/Creationists_Fears.html&usg=__2nlNxd10M4ScpHx07-YurPzQ5EE=&h=420&w=525&sz=60&hl=no&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=bGQ9NFIQMsgwiM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcreationists%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dno%26client%3Dopera%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dnb%26tbs%3Disch:1

I won't reply to your post unless you really read through the links I've provided. If you then think evolution is not the right way to go; then I just got to call your momma and tell her to put you back into whatever cave she found you in)


Oh so now copy & paste links and THEORIES , makes you the new FACT finder !??? :lol: You can tell me what ever your opinion is, but that doesnt make it a fact because you believe in it.

Bringing up THEORIES from online sources arent facts.,.... you want an example?


Here's something I couldve shoved in your face (but I wont) , calling it FACTS ,,, but its just another theory by another group,,,,,



1. Information The instructions for how to build, operate, and repair living cells represent a vast amount of information (estimated at 12 billion bits). Information is a mental, non-material concept. It can never arise from a natural process and is always the result of an intelligence. Just as a newspaper story transcends the ink on the paper, life’s DNA itself (like the ink) is not the information, it is simply a physical representation or housing of the information (the story). Modifying the DNA via mutation can never produce new genetic information to drive upward evolution, just as spilling coffee on the newspaper, thereby modifying the distribution of the ink, will never improve the story.
Key references: Genetic Entropy (Sanford), In the Beginning was Information (Gitt).

2. Formation of Life Non-living chemicals cannot become alive on their own. The cell is a miniature factory with many active processes, not a simple blob of “protoplasm” as believed in Darwin’s day. Lightening striking a mud puddle or some “warm little pond” will never produce life. This is another view of the core issue of information as the simplest living cell requires a vast amount of information to be present. The “Law of Biogenesis” states that life comes only from prior life. Spontaneous generation has long been shown to be impossible (by Louis Pasteur in 1859). Numerous efforts to bring life from non-life (including the famous Miller-Urey experiment) have not succeeded. The probability of life forming from non-life has been likened to the probability of a tornado going through a junkyard and spontaneously assembling a working 747 airplane. The idea that life on earth may have been seeded from outer space just moves the problem elsewhere.
Key reference: Why Abiogenesis is Impossible, Jerry Bergman, CRS Quarterly, Volume 36, March 2000

3. Design of Living Things Design is apparent in the living world. Even Richard Dawkins in his anti-creation book The Blind Watchmaker admits “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” The amazing defense mechanism of the Bombardier Beetle is a classic example of design in nature, seemingly impossible to explain as the result of accumulating small beneficial changes over time, because if the mechanism doesn’t work perfectly, “boom” – no more beetle! This is also another view of the core issue of information, as the design of living things is the result of processing the information in the DNA (following the blueprint) to produce a working organism.
Key reference: The three-part video series Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution describes many more examples like that of the Bombardier Beetle

4. Irreducible Complexity The idea that “nothing works until everything works.” The classic example is a mousetrap, which is irreducibly complex in that if one of its several pieces is missing or not in the right place, it will not function as a mousetrap and no mice will be caught. The systems, features, and processes of life are irreducibly complex. What good is a circulatory system without a heart? An eye without a brain to interpret the signals? What good is a half-formed wing? Doesn’t matching male and female reproductive machinery need to exist at the same time, fully-functioning if any reproduction is to take place? Remember, natural selection has no foresight, and works to eliminate anything not providing an immediate benefit.
Key reference: Darwin’s Black Box (Behe)

5. Second Law of Thermodynamics The Second Law of Thermodynamics refers to the universal tendency for things, on their own, to “mix” with their surrounding environment over time, becoming less ordered and eventually reaching a steady-state. A glass of hot water becomes room temperature, buildings decay into rubble, and the stars will eventually burn out leading to the “heat death” of the universe. However, the evolutionary scenario proposes that over time things, on their own, became more ordered and structured. Somehow the energy of a “Big Bang” structured itself into stars, galaxies, planets, and living things, contrary to the Second Law. It is sometimes said that the energy of the Sun was enough to overcome this tendency and allow for the formation of life on earth. However, application of energy alone is not enough to overcome this tendency; the energy must be channeled by a machine. A human must repair a building to keep it from decaying. Likewise, it is the machinery of photosynthesis which harnesses the energy of the Sun, allowing life to exist, and photosynthesis is itself a complex chemical process. The maturing of an acorn into a tree, or a zygote (the first cell resulting from fertilization) into a mature human being does not violate the Second Law as these processes are guided by the information already present in the acorn or zygote.
Key reference: The Second Law of Thermodynamics (answersingenesis.org)

6. Existence of the Universe By definition, something must be eternal (as we have “something” today and something cannot come from “nothing”, so there was never a time when there was “nothing”). Either the universe itself is eternal, or something/someone outside of and greater than the universe is eternal. We know that the universe is not eternal, it had a beginning (as evidenced by its expansion). Therefore, God (the something/someone outside of the universe) must exist and must have created the universe. Einstein showed that space and time are related. If there is no space there is no time. Before the universe was created there was no space and therefore no concept of time. This is hard for us to understand as we are space-time creatures, but it allows for God to be an eternal being, completely consistent with scientific laws. The question “who created God” is therefore an improper/invalid question, as it is a time-based question (concerning the point in time at which God came into existence) but God exists outside of time as the un-caused first cause.

7. Fine-tuning of Earth for Life Dozens of parameters are “just right” for life to exist on this planet. For example, if the Earth were just a little closer to the Sun it would be too hot and the ocean’s water would boil away, much further and it would be covered continually in ice. Earth’s circular orbit (to maintain a roughly constant temperature year-round), its rotation speed (to provide days and nights not too long or short), its tilt (to provide seasons), and the presence of the moon (to provide tides to cleanse the oceans) are just some of many other examples.

The presence of large amounts of water, with its amazing special properties, is also required. Water is a rare compound in that it is lighter in a solid state than in a liquid state. This allows ponds to freeze with the ice on the surface allowing the life beneath to survive. Otherwise bodies of water would freeze from the bottom up and become solid ice. Water is also the most universal “solvent” known, allowing for dissolving/mixing with the many different chemicals of life. In fact, our bodies are 75-85% comprised of water.
Key reference: The Privileged Planet (Gonzalez/Richards)

8. Fine-tuning of Physics The fine-tuning of the physical constants that control the physics of the universe - the settings of the basic forces (strong nuclear force constant, weak nuclear force constant, gravitational force constant, and electromagnetic force constant) are on a knife’s edge. A minor change in these or any of dozens of other universal parameters would make life impossible.
The “multiverse” idea that there may be many universes and ours “just happened” to have these proper values is outside of science and could never be proven. Even then we would have to ask “what was the cause of all these universes?”

Key reference: Hugh Ross lists about 100 parameters on the Reasons To Believe web site. See also Design and the Anthropic Principle

9. Abrupt Appearance in the Fossil Record The oldest fossils for any creature are already fully-formed and don’t change much over time (“stasis”). The “Cambrian Explosion” in the “primordial strata” documents the geologically rapid appearance of most major groups of complex animals. There is no evidence of evolution from simpler forms. Birds are said to have evolved from reptiles but no fossil has ever been found having a “half-scale/half-wing”. A reptile breathes using an “in and out” lung (like humans have), but a bird has a “flow-through” lung suitable for moving through the air. Can you even imagine how such a transition of the lung could have taken place? Abrupt appearance and stasis are consistent with the biblical concept of creation “according to its kind”, and a world-wide flood that scoured the earth down to its basement rocks, depositing the “geologic column” and giving the appearance of a “Cambrian Explosion”. Smarter, more mobile creatures would escape the flood waters longer, becoming buried in higher-level strata, leading to a burial order progressing from “simpler” forms to more complex/higher-level forms, which people now wrongly interpret as an evolutionary progression.
Key reference: Fossils Q&A (answersingenesis.org)

10. Human Consciousness A person is a unity of body + mind/soul, the mind/soul being the immaterial part of you that is the real inner you. Chemicals alone cannot explain self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, emotions of love and hate, sensations of pleasure and pain, possessing and remembering experiences, and free will. Reason itself cannot be relied upon if it is based only on blind neurological events.
Key reference: The Origin of the Brain and Mind, Brad Harrub and Bert Thompson, CRS Quarterly, Volume 41, June 2004

11. Human Language Language separates man from the animals. No animal is capable of achieving anything like human speech, and all attempts to teach chimpanzees to talk have failed. Evolutionists have no explanation for the origin of human language. However, the Bible does. It says that the first man, Adam, was created able to speak. The Bible also explains why we have different human languages, as God had to "confuse" the common language being used in Babel after the flood, in order to force people to spread out around the world as He wanted. This was only a "surface" confusion though, as all languages express the same underlying basic ideas and concepts, enabling other languages to be learned and understood.
Key reference: The Mystery of Human Language (Morris, icr.org)

12. Sexual Reproduction Many creatures reproduce asexually. Why would animals abandon simpler asexual reproduction in favor of more costly and inefficient sexual reproduction? Sexual reproduction is a very complex process that is only useful if fully in place. For sexual reproduction to have evolved complimentary male and female sex organs, sperm and eggs, and all the associated machinery in tandem defies the imagination.

13. The Bible's Witness The Bible is true. The history of the Bible is true. The words of the Bible concerning our origins were given to men to write down, by God, who was the only living being present. We were not there! God said He created the universe. God said He created all living things. We know that life is much more than chemicals. God put His life into Adam and that life has been transferred from generation to generation all the way down to us!
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:10 am

parfait wrote:...first you got to understand what a scientif theory is; it's a hypothesis that has been proven so many times that there's infact nothing that can disapprove it, thus it becomes a scientific theory, or what in colloquial terms would be called a GOD DAMN FACT) is not proven....


You're mixing up Laws and Theories, and even then, nobody ever proves a Law, they just fail to be disprove it so many times that it's held to be true that it will not be disproven.
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Postby StevePerryHair » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:18 am

Arianddu wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Except theories are not facts. I think that is the point that some are trying to make. As long as things are theories, there is no 100% proof. There is evidence, but not enough to make the leap from theory to proof.


Science never proves things right, it only proves things wrong, or says 'based on what we know, this is what we think is the most likely reason for X to occur, and we haven't been able to prove that explaination is wrong yet.' In science, a theory is not a speculation, it's an explaination that takes into account everything we currently know on a subject. As we learn more, the theory gets changed to account for it. That's what so many people have a hard time accepting.

Philosophers, detectives and investigative reporters claim to have proof; scientists claim to have explainations. Big difference.


yes, I know how science works ;) it was kinda my major :) he was mixing up research and theories with fact and I was trying to set him straight that there is a big difference. Theories are based on investigations and studying through research and findings and that certainly helps to back up the theory. But that doesnt make them anything more than what they are though. Theories. No one will ever know for sure.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:19 am

Here's some more for you PeePeeB.,.,,,,, Its easy to just search and copy and paste ,,,, but it doesnt make it FACTS just cause YOU think its facts !
Read them before you answer, k !? ;) :lol:



Apparent Design:
All life appears to be designed, and evolutionists have failed to adequately explain why. Adaptation to environmental changes, mutations, and natural selection has not validated macroevolution.


Origin of life:
Louis Pasteur disproved spontaneous generation of life. Sir Fred Hoyle and Charles Wickramasinghe stated in their book, Evolution from Space, that “they estimated the probability of forming a single enzyme or protein at random, in a rich ocean of amino acids, was no more than one in 10 to the 20th power.” Next, they calculated the likelihood of forming all of the 2000+ enzymes used in the life forms of earth. This probability was calculated at one in 10 to the 40,000th power. They popularized the following cliché: “belief in the chemical evolution of the first cell from lifeless chemicals is equivalent to believing that a tornado could sweep through a junkyard and form a Boeing 747.”


Development of life and the tree of life:
Evolutionists believe all life developed from the original life that Sir Fred Hoyle said had no chance of occurring. Nevertheless, evolutionists have postulated an evolutionary tree of life showing how the various life forms developed. If their postulate were correct, many transitional life forms would have existed between the ancestor and the descendant’s time. Now, after 150 years of searching for fossils since Darwin, zero transitional fossils have been found of the millions of fossils collected. Confirming this lack of evidence is Gould's oft-quoted words: "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils. . .I wish in no way to impugn the potential validity of gradualism. I wish only to point out that it was never seen in the rocks."


DNA and complexity:
Recent advances in microbiology have shown the incomprehensible complexity of DNA and the living cell. The human DNA molecules are the chromosomes that comprise the human genome. The purpose of the DNA is to specify the information for the human blueprint. Information is separate from the chemicals that are just the media for the information. Only intelligence can generate information. How can we believe that such complicated information could have generated randomly?

New knowledge about the cell is equally incompatible with random origin. A cell is extremely complex and the way it performs its functions is similar to a sophisticated factory. The way DNA is self-repairing, the way RNA works with DNA, and the way proteins are synthesized using RNA templates screams of a Designer.


Dualism/Consciousness:
Scientists have found that the brain and mind are separate entities. Wilder Penfield said, “Through performing surgery on more than a thousand epileptic patients, he encountered concrete evidence that the brain and the mind are actually distinct from each other, although they clearly interact."


Thermodynamics 2nd law:
This law, known as the law of entropy, applies not only to usable energy but equally to organization and things wearing out. The natural flow is from organized to unorganized, complex to random, new to “worn out.” We see this principle in our everyday lives. Energy, applied with intelligence, is necessary to reverse the ever-increasing entropy or randomness of creation.
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:20 am

Behshad wrote:So youre telling me that not one single ape from 8000 generations ago, made it far enough to OUR TIME , 8000 generations later, to slighty differ from other monkies and start acting more like humans ?


Not what I said at all, babe. For starters, apes are not monkeys, monkeys are not apes, they are both primates. A car is not a motorcycle, a motorcycle is not a car, they are both motor vehicles. Stop mixing the two of them up, it's irritating.

Secondly, as I keep saying, it's not about individuals, it's about populations. Homo Sapians (i.e. modern humans) are the only members of the Homo group of apes to survive to the modern day (Stevie-Woo is going to have a field day with that.) Homo erectus, Homo sinensis, Homo neanderthalensis - none of them made it to today's world. But modern chimpanzees use tools and display behaviour that is similar to us, behaviour that has been learned within our species' lifetime.

Besides which, it's taken the last 5-7 million years for us to learn to behave like humans. You could just as legitimately ask why in all that time we haven't learned to behave more like gibbons.
Why treat life as a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in an attractive & well-preserved body? Get there by skidding in sideways, a glass of wine in one hand, chocolate in the other, body totally worn out, screaming WOOHOO! What a ride!
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:24 am

And some more,,, FactFinder should be proud of my C&P skills by now, ;) Now shut your mouth and take it home! Im not FORCING You to believe ANY of this,, but for you, a punk ass kid, coming here claiming you KNOW so much more than you actually do know,,, it aint gonna happen on my watch, PeePee,,,, God save those poor souls that seek your attention when theyre sick,,, hopefully you will fail the final exam and end up as a Murse (male nurse), Focker! :lol:



DARWIN'S THEORY OF EVOLUTION DEBUNKED
Darwin's Theory of Evolution, as presented in his book "Origin of Species" has been widely accepted as fact, although it is based on Darwin's fallible speculations. His critics write, "If the theory of natural selection of Darwin is correct, why can't we see the intermediate forms of species, the connecting links?" Darwin did not have the answer nor the archeological evidence to back it up. Although there is ample evidence for many species, fossil records provide almost no evidence for the intermediate connecting links.

Later, scientists revised Darwin's theory with their "Punctuated Equilibrium" evolutionary theory, supposedly making evolution invisible in the fossil record. Yet this theory is not verifiable in any way and is highly speculative.

An interesting article appeared recently in Pravda, in Russia, which gives an excellent argument against Darwinism. The article follows:





June 7, RUSSIA (PRAVDA) — Millions of people are taught that the fossil record furnishes proof of evolution. But, where are there fossils of half-evolved dinosaurs or other creatures?





The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred. Even among evolutionists there are diametrically different interpretations and reconstructions of the fossils used to support human evolution from a supposed ape-like ancestry.

Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, we should still be able to see some stages of its process. But, we simply don't observe any partially-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats among us. Every species of plant and animal is complete and fully-formed.

Another problem is how could partially-evolved plant and animal species survive over millions of years when their basic organs and tissues were still in the process of evolving? How, for example, were animals breathing, eating, and reproducing if there respiratory, digestive, and reproductive organs were still evolving?

In fact, precisely because of this problem more and more modern evolutionists are adopting a new theory known as Punctuated Equilibrium which says that plant and animal species evolved suddenly from one kind to another and that is why we don't see evidence of partially-evolved species in the fossil record. Of course, we have to accept their word on blind faith because there is no way to prove or disprove what they are saying. These evolutionists claim that something like massive bombardment of radiation resulted in mega mutations in species which produced "instantaneous" changes from one life form to another. The nature and issue of mutations will be discussed later and the reader will see why such an argument is not viable.

The fact that animal and plant species are found fully formed and complete in the fossil record is powerful evidence (although not proof) for creation because it is evidence that they came into existence as fully formed and complete which is possible only by creation.

Evolutionists claim that the genetic and biological similarities between species is evidence of common ancestry. However, that is only one interpretation of the evidence. Another possibility is that the comparative similarities are due to a common Designer who designed similar functions for similar purposes in all the various forms of life. Neither position can be scientifically proved.

Although Darwin was partially correct by showing that natural selection occurs in nature, the problem is that natural selection itself is not a creative force. Natural selection can only work with those biological variations that are possible. The evidence from genetics supports only the possibility for horizontal evolution (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.) but not vertical evolution (i.e. from fish to human). Unless Nature has the ability to perform genetic engineering vertical evolution will not be possible.

The early grooves in the human embryo that appear to look like gills are really the early stages in the formation of the face, throat, and neck regions. The so-called "tailbone" is the early formation of the coccyx and spinal column which, because of the rate of growth being faster than the rest of the body during this stage, appears to look like a tail. The coccyx has already been proven to be useful in providing support for the pelvic muscles.

Modern science has shown that there are genetic limits to evolution or biological change in nature. Again, all biological variations, whether they are beneficial to survival or not, are possible only within the genetic potential and limits of a biological kind such as the varieties among dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.

Variations across biological kinds such as humans evolving from ape-like creatures and apes, in turn, evolving from dog-like creatures and so on, as Darwinian evolutionary theory teaches, are not possible unless Nature has the capability of performing genetic engineering.

Biological variations are determined by the DNA or genetic code of species. The DNA molecule is actually a molecular string of various nucleic acids which are arranged in a sequence just like the letters in a sentence. It is this sequence in DNA that tells cells in the body how to construct various tissues and organs.

The common belief among evolutionists is that random mutations in the genetic code over time will produce entirely new sequences for new traits and characteristics which natural selection can then act upon resulting in entirely new species. Evolutionists consider mutations to be a form of natural genetic engineering.

However, the very nature of mutations precludes such a possibility. Mutations are accidental changes in the sequential structure of the genetic code caused by various random environmental forces such as radiation and toxic chemicals.

Almost all true mutations are harmful, which is what one would normally expect from accidents. Even if a good mutation occurred for every good one there will be thousands of harmful ones with the net result over time being disastrous for the species.

Most biological variations, however, are the result of new combinations of previously existing genes - not because of mutations.

Furthermore, mutations simply produce new varieties of already existing traits. For example, mutations in the gene for human hair may change the gene so that another type of human hair develops, but the mutations won't change the gene so that feathers or wings develop.

Sometimes mutations may trigger the duplication of already existing traits (i.e. an extra finger, toe, or even an entire head, even in another area of the body!). But mutations have no ability to produce entirely new traits or characteristics.

Young people, and even adults, often wonder how all the varieties and races of people could have descended from Adam and Eve as the Bible teaches. Well, in principle, that's no different than asking how children with different color hair (i.e., blond, brunette, brown, red ) can come from the same parents who both have black hair.

Just as some individuals today carry genes to produce descendants with different color hair and eyes, our first parents, Adam and Eve, possessed genes to produce all the varieties and races of men. You and I today may not carry the genes to produce every variety or race of humans, but Adam and Eve did possess such genes.

All varieties of humans carry the genes for the same basic traits, but not all humans carry every possible variation of those genes. For example, one person may be carrying several variations of the gene for eye color (i.e., brown, green, blue) , but someone else may be carrying only one variation of the gene for eye color (i.e., brown). Thus, both will have different abilities to affect the eye color of their offspring.

Science cannot prove we're here by creation, but neither can science prove we're here by chance or macro-evolution. No one has observed either. They are both accepted on faith. The issue is which faith, Darwinian macro-evolutionary theory or creation, has better scientific support.

What we believe about life's origins does influence our philosophy and value of life as well as our view of ourselves and others. This is no small issue!

Just because the laws of science can explain how life and the universe operate and work doesn't mean there is no Maker. Would it be rational to believe that there's no designer behind airplanes because the laws of science can explain how airplanes operate and work?

Natural laws are adequate to explain how the order in life, the universe, and even a microwave oven operates, but mere undirected natural laws can never fully explain the origin of such order.

The law of entropy in science shows that the universe does not have the ability to have sustained itself from all eternity. In other words, the universe cannot be eternal and requires a beginning.

It is only fair that school students be exposed to the scientific arguments and evidence on both sides of the creation/evolution issue.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:26 am

Arianddu wrote:
Behshad wrote:So youre telling me that not one single ape from 8000 generations ago, made it far enough to OUR TIME , 8000 generations later, to slighty differ from other monkies and start acting more like humans ?


Not what I said at all, babe. For starters, apes are not monkeys, monkeys are not apes, they are both primates. A car is not a motorcycle, a motorcycle is not a car, they are both motor vehicles. Stop mixing the two of them up, it's irritating.

Secondly, as I keep saying, it's not about individuals, it's about populations. Homo Sapians (i.e. modern humans) are the only members of the Homo group of apes to survive to the modern day (Stevie-Woo is going to have a field day with that.) Homo erectus, Homo sinensis, Homo neanderthalensis - none of them made it to today's world. But modern chimpanzees use tools and display behaviour that is similar to us, behaviour that has been learned within our species' lifetime.

Besides which, it's taken the last 5-7 million years for us to learn to behave like humans. You could just as legitimately ask why in all that time we haven't learned to behave more like gibbons.


The ONE thing that separated us from apes ,monkey ,donkeys and the rest of animal kingdom was the ability of SPEECH.... thats something that has existed amongst human beings ever since the first cave man (way before Geico commercials) opened his mouth!
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Postby Arianddu » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:26 am

StevePerryHair wrote:
Arianddu wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
parfait wrote:Jeez. Scientists have proven time and time again that evolution is the way everything living has evolved. There's no debating it.

We're living in 2010, so it's really about time that that you face the facts.


Except theories are not facts. I think that is the point that some are trying to make. As long as things are theories, there is no 100% proof. There is evidence, but not enough to make the leap from theory to proof.


Science never proves things right, it only proves things wrong, or says 'based on what we know, this is what we think is the most likely reason for X to occur, and we haven't been able to prove that explaination is wrong yet.' In science, a theory is not a speculation, it's an explaination that takes into account everything we currently know on a subject. As we learn more, the theory gets changed to account for it. That's what so many people have a hard time accepting.

Philosophers, detectives and investigative reporters claim to have proof; scientists claim to have explainations. Big difference.


yes, I know how science works ;) it was kinda my major :) he was mixing up research and theories with fact and I was trying to set him straight that there is a big difference. Theories are based on investigations and studying through research and findings and that certainly helps to back up the theory. But that doesnt make them anything more than what they are though. Theories. No one will ever know for sure.


Sorry! Just dealt with too many people who think that 'theory' means 'I just pulled an idea out of nowhere'. You are quite right.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:29 am

Of course, PeePeeB, youre still

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Postby StevePerryHair » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:30 am

theory (th-r, thîr)
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena. Most theories that are accepted by scientists have been repeatedly tested by experiments and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. See Note at hypothesis.


Theories are nothing more than a way to explain the things that scientists have found in their research. And yes, they are repeatedly tested. But they are STILL just based on prediction and hypothesis, which was my point. That doesn't make them true. Im sure there are scientists working on disproving this theory too. And i bet some have. So they are not FACTS. Facts and theories are not the same thing. Unless it's translated different in french? :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:31 am

StevePerryHair wrote:theory (th-r, thîr)
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena. Most theories that are accepted by scientists have been repeatedly tested by experiments and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. See Note at hypothesis.


Theories are nothing more than a way to explain the things that scientists have found in their research. And yes, they are repeatedly tested. But they are STILL just based on prediction and hypothesis, which was my point. That doesn't make them true. Im sure there are scientists working on disproving this theory too. And i bet some have. So they are not FACTS. Facts and theories are not the same thing. Unless it's translated different in french? :lol:


Well would you expect anything different from a guy who thinks he is PERFECT !?? :lol:
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:33 am

Who fucked up the formatting of the thread? Side scrolling = No thanks. I can't even read this delightful discussion. Please edit whoever it is
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Postby StevePerryHair » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:35 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Who fucked up the formatting of the thread? Side scrolling = No thanks. I can't even read this delightful discussion. Please edit whoever it is


I think it was BB's copy/paste job :lol:
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Postby WalkInMyShoes » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:37 am

I think it was Parfait - he gets blamed for everything around here.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:38 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Who fucked up the formatting of the thread? Side scrolling = No thanks. I can't even read this delightful discussion. Please edit whoever it is


sorry buddy,,, its all the "facts" I had to show PeePeeBarfait,,, to convince him that none of what EITHER SIDE says are FACTS but plain & simple THEORIES! :)
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:38 am

Behshad wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Who fucked up the formatting of the thread? Side scrolling = No thanks. I can't even read this delightful discussion. Please edit whoever it is


sorry buddy,,, its all the "facts" I had to show PeePeeBarfait,,, to convince him that none of what EITHER SIDE says are FACTS but plain & simple THEORIES! :)


Fix it damnit!
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