Kids Kicked Out Of Catholic School Because Parents Are Gay

[Voyager]

(CNN) -- The archdiocese of Denver, Colorado, is defending its decision not to re-enroll two children in a Catholic school in Boulder next year because their parents are lesbians.

"The Church does not claim that people with a homosexual orientation are 'bad,' or that their children are less loved by God," wrote Archbishop Charles J. Chaput in an article to be published in Thursday's edition of the Denver Catholic Register.

"Quite the opposite. But what the Church does teach is that sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong; that marriage is a sacramental covenant; and that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman. These beliefs are central to a Catholic understanding of human nature, family and happiness, and the organization of society. The Church cannot change these teachings because, in the faith of Catholics, they are the teachings of Jesus Christ."

He added people with a different understanding of marriage and family life "have other, excellent options for education and should see in them the better course for their children."

The issue centers on the Sacred Heart of Jesus School, where the children are currently enrolled, the older of whom has been enrolled in kindergarten for next year but will not be allowed to enter first grade and the younger of whom is in preschool but will not be allowed to enter kindergarten.

"The Archdiocese of Denver has acted very unjustly in singling out this child for exclusion," said DignityUSA Executive Director Marianne Duddy-Burke in a written statement Monday, before it became clear that two children were affected. "Until every student's parents are tested on Catholic teaching, this action by Catholic officials cannot be understood as anything other than discrimination on the back of a child. At a tender age, this child has learned that Catholic officials are willing to inflict pain on children and families."

The decision was made public last week.

"These actions by the Denver Archdiocese harm the student by taking the child away from friends, teachers and community," said Jarrett Barrios, president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. "It's deeply troubling to see any school remove a child from their educational program simply as the means of rejecting that child's parents."

In a posting of his sermon, the Rev. Bill Breslin, pastor of Sacred Heart of Jesus Church, supported the decision.

"The issue is not about our not accepting 'sinners,' " he said. "It is not about punishing the child for the sins of his or her parents. It is simply that the lesbian couple is saying that their relationship is a good one that should be accepted by everyone; and the Church cannot agree to that."

About 30 opponents of the move, "mostly hetero allies of the gay community," protested Sunday outside the church during Mass, said Dave Ensign, board president of Boulder Pride, a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community center and services organization.

Ensign handed out flyers to the protesters and then joined the parishioners as they listened to the sermon defending the church's move. "I was disappointed, but it was pretty much what I was expecting to hear," he said.

He added that the larger community's reaction has been positive. "When people hear about this, they speak up and I think that says a lot about our community," he said.

The children have not been identified publicly.

[Rockindeano]

Aww, good ol Catholics. Is there a worse group of people than these assholes? Pass judgment on others, but when given the chance, bend the altar boy over for about 6 years and then pay off his family when said dirty deed comes to light. The Catholics are more corrupt than the Federal Government and the most hypocritical religious body ever..

[Voyager]

"The issue is not about our not accepting 'sinners,' " he said. "It is not about punishing the child for the sins of his or her parents. It is simply that the lesbian couple is saying that their relationship is a good one that should be accepted by everyone; and the Church cannot agree to that."

What if a kid's parent commits murder and goes to prison... will they kick their kids out of school because the church doesn't condone murder?

[Red13JoePa]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

[Voyager]

Is there a worse group of people than these assholes?

Possibly the Fred Phelps crowd?



I have to wonder if people who bash gays in an extreme way such as Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, etc., are not closet gays themselves.

[Ehwmatt]

They're within their rights, like it or not.

[StevePerryHair]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservatively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

[StevePerryHair]

They're within their rights, like it or not.

Of COURSE it's their right. It's a private school. I don't think that's the issue. It's is the the "right" thing to do to a child.

[Ehwmatt]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservitively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

The church and catholic schools have always been a joke to me. My parents definitely consider their worst investment through their entire marriage was putting us through Catholic grade school.

[Voyager]

There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

It was long before that. I was raised Catholic. When I was 13 years old, my brother and I were removed from a Catholic school because our mother got remarried. We were forced to leave our friends and go to a very rough public school.

Are you aware that Catholics used to burn their priests at the stake when they decided they had turned away from Catholic teachings? Read the Book Of Martyrs.

[Ehwmatt]

They're within their rights, like it or not.

Of COURSE it's their right. It's a private school. I don't think that's the issue. It's is the the "right" thing to do to a child.

The same people who get up in arms about this are the same people that will claim all of these rights when it's something that pisses the other side off, that's all I'm sayin.

I couldn't care less if the church wants to have or doesn't want to have buttfucking priests, gay parents, single parents, adulterers, what have you.

If Catholicism is such a bad, evil thing for all the religion haters, then they should be applauding the school's move to exclude the kid before he's there for 7-8 years You know the old saying, "Better start 'em young so they can grow to love the taste of corporate cum."

[Red13JoePa]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservitively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

The church and catholic schools have always been a joke to me. My parents definitely consider their worst investment through their entire marriage was putting us through Catholic grade school.

get out what you put in.
How often do you or your ps go to mass?

[StevePerryHair]

There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

It was long before that. I was raised Catholic. When I was 13 years old, my brother and I were removed from a Catholic school because our mother got remarried. We were forced to leave our friends and go to a very rough public school.

Are you aware that Catholics used to burn their priests at the stake when they decided they had turned away from Catholic teachings? read the Book Of Martyrs.

I just think he was a Pope trying to change things. Trying to move the church foward, and he had all those other conservative people around him fighting it. You can see it by who they chose as his replacement. What happened to you was wrong too. And that's what's irritating too. The inconsistancy. Because I can guarantee you not every child with a remarried divorced mother had to leave their schools!! You probably had the unfortunate luck to belong to a parish with a strict priest and a strict bishop to back him up. Ridiculous.

[Ehwmatt]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservitively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

The church and catholic schools have always been a joke to me. My parents definitely consider their worst investment through their entire marriage was putting us through Catholic grade school.

get out what you put in.
How often do you or your ps go to mass?

Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

The Catholic schools think they're doing you a HUGE favor by "allowing" you to go to their school and treat you and your parents like dirt... at least all the ones around here do, grade school and high school.

I actually went on to Catholic high school too against my better judgment because we had an awesome tennis team and won states my sophomore year. I got a good education there in some areas (except math and science), but it wasn't any better than my two younger sisters who went to public school. They also were incidentally treated 100x better both in the school and at sporting events etc. If you compared the way my sisters and parents were treated to the way we were treated at my high school, you'd think the check was getting cut to the PUBLIC SCHOOL. Now, admittedly, our public school is very nice. Some kids don't have that nice of an option. But when you do, Catholic schools are nothing special and often are worse, both on a personal and academic level.

[StevePerryHair]

[
Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

The Catholic schools think they're doing you a HUGE favor by "allowing" you to go to their school and treat you and your parents like dirt... at least all the ones around here do, grade school and high school.

I actually went on to Catholic high school too against my better judgment because we had an awesome tennis team and won states my sophomore year. I got a good education there in some areas (except math and science), but it wasn't any better than my two younger sisters who went onto public school. They also were incidentally treated 100x better both in the school and at sporting events etc. If you compared the way my sisters and parents were treated to the way we were treated at my high school, you'd think the check was getting cut to the PUBLIC SCHOOL. Now, admittedly, our public school is very nice. Some kids don't have that option. But when you do, Catholic schools are nothing special.

I had a very bad catholic grade school experience. I had nuns who were behind the times from other nuns by about a million years. Even though they weren't allowed to hit us like the nuns of old, the mental abuse existed. This was not the case from neighbor friends who went to other catholic schools in the area. So it varies from which type of nun is running the school. My parents recognized it was not a good place for my brother, and we moved and went to public high school. The best decision they ever made. But we joined a Catholic church in our town there, and the priests I grew up with were awesome. The one I had my teen years was kind of a rebel. He had female alter servers before he was allowed to and got in trouble. My church here, same thing. Great priests from a small mission order! LOVED all of them for the last 20 years! Until they had a shortage and now we are stuck with a diocesan priest from France who is SO awful half the lifetime parishoners have left It's the inconsitiancy that kills me!!! But then people are people, and its people doing this. Priests are people too. Its' a matter of trying to find your niche though. Where you fit in. It's not "all" bad.

And Matt,you are a "Chreaster"

[Red13JoePa]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservitively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

The church and catholic schools have always been a joke to me. My parents definitely consider their worst investment through their entire marriage was putting us through Catholic grade school.

get out what you put in.
How often do you or your ps go to mass?

Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

LOL a C&E "Catholic" bashing the Church.

[Michigan Girl]

And Matt,you are a "Chreaster"

He's an Eastmas!! If the Catholics aren't the most judgmental folks on the face
the the earth, then Baptists are ... next week we'll see what the Pentecostal folks are up
to ...we all be sinners, I just happen to be a Catholic sinner!!

[Ehwmatt]

[
Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

The Catholic schools think they're doing you a HUGE favor by "allowing" you to go to their school and treat you and your parents like dirt... at least all the ones around here do, grade school and high school.

I actually went on to Catholic high school too against my better judgment because we had an awesome tennis team and won states my sophomore year. I got a good education there in some areas (except math and science), but it wasn't any better than my two younger sisters who went onto public school. They also were incidentally treated 100x better both in the school and at sporting events etc. If you compared the way my sisters and parents were treated to the way we were treated at my high school, you'd think the check was getting cut to the PUBLIC SCHOOL. Now, admittedly, our public school is very nice. Some kids don't have that option. But when you do, Catholic schools are nothing special.

I had a very bad catholic grade school experience. I had nuns who were behind the times from other nuns by about a million years. Even though they weren't allowed to hit us like the nuns of old, the mental abuse existed. This was not the case from neighbor friends who went to other catholic schools in the area. So it varies from which type of nun is running the school. My parents recognized it was not a good place for my brother, and we moved and went to public high school. The best decision they ever made. But we joined a Catholic church in our town there, and the priests I grew up with were awesome. The one I had my teen years was kind of a rebel. He had female alter servers before he was allowed to and got in trouble. My church here, same thing. Great priests from a small mission order! LOVED all of them for the last 20 years! Until they had a shortage and now we are stuck with a diocesan priest from France who is SO awful half the lifetime parishoners have left It's the inconsitiancy that kills me!!! But then people are people, and its people doing this. Priests are people too. Its' a matter of trying to find your niche though. Where you fit in. It's not "all" bad.

And Matt,you are a "Chreaster"

Yeah, I understand it can be a great community if you find the right place. I'm just not a very spiritual person I guess, for better or worse. I don't run around proclaiming atheism and I don't run around proclaiming the word of God from on high. I just don't get much (read: anything) out of prayer/going to church etc. I honestly can say that I haven't felt the least bit spiritually compelled to go to church even ONE time in my life. Not once. I'm not trying to be an asshole about it or a religion hater. It's just how I feel.

[StevePerryHair]

And Matt,you are a "Chreaster"

He's an Eastmas!! If the Catholics aren't the most judgemental folks on the face
the the earth, then Baptists are ... next week we'll see what the Pentecostal folks are up
to ...we all be sinners, I just happen to be a Catholic sinner!!

An Eastmas! And I agree with you 100%

[Ehwmatt]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservitively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

The church and catholic schools have always been a joke to me. My parents definitely consider their worst investment through their entire marriage was putting us through Catholic grade school.

get out what you put in.
How often do you or your ps go to mass?

Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

LOL a C&E "Catholic" bashing the Church.

Sorry RedJoan (thanks Dean), that's just my experience with it. The pastor at my grade school was a total fucking asshole who made my mother cry on three occasions when we were dealing with them, he mouthed off to my dad, they treated us like crap (and everyone else... still in touch w/ my grade school friends and we still laugh about all the bullshit). He was certainly a godless man and I suspect he may have been implicated in pedophilia, as he up and resigned out of the blue with no explanation (eg health) in the middle of a school year after I was gone. Same experience at my Catholic grade school - the people think they are so special and that you oughta kiss their asses just for the divine privilege of being there. No thanks.

Now, if it makes you feel better, our local parish (I went to Catholic grade school in the neighboring town) actually seems like a great place if church is your thing - nice priests, great service with great band, they make you feel genuinely welcomed etc. Like I just explained to Lynn, I just don't get anything out of it, never have, probably never will. I'm just not a spiritual thinker and don't ever feel compelled to pray or attend church. It's just the way I am.

[StevePerryHair]

[
Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

The Catholic schools think they're doing you a HUGE favor by "allowing" you to go to their school and treat you and your parents like dirt... at least all the ones around here do, grade school and high school.

I actually went on to Catholic high school too against my better judgment because we had an awesome tennis team and won states my sophomore year. I got a good education there in some areas (except math and science), but it wasn't any better than my two younger sisters who went onto public school. They also were incidentally treated 100x better both in the school and at sporting events etc. If you compared the way my sisters and parents were treated to the way we were treated at my high school, you'd think the check was getting cut to the PUBLIC SCHOOL. Now, admittedly, our public school is very nice. Some kids don't have that option. But when you do, Catholic schools are nothing special.

I had a very bad catholic grade school experience. I had nuns who were behind the times from other nuns by about a million years. Even though they weren't allowed to hit us like the nuns of old, the mental abuse existed. This was not the case from neighbor friends who went to other catholic schools in the area. So it varies from which type of nun is running the school. My parents recognized it was not a good place for my brother, and we moved and went to public high school. The best decision they ever made. But we joined a Catholic church in our town there, and the priests I grew up with were awesome. The one I had my teen years was kind of a rebel. He had female alter servers before he was allowed to and got in trouble. My church here, same thing. Great priests from a small mission order! LOVED all of them for the last 20 years! Until they had a shortage and now we are stuck with a diocesan priest from France who is SO awful half the lifetime parishoners have left It's the inconsitiancy that kills me!!! But then people are people, and its people doing this. Priests are people too. Its' a matter of trying to find your niche though. Where you fit in. It's not "all" bad.

And Matt,you are a "Chreaster"

Yeah, I understand it can be a great community if you find the right place. I'm just not a very spiritual person I guess, for better or worse. I don't run around proclaiming atheism and I don't run around proclaiming the word of God from on high. I just don't get much (read: anything) out of prayer/going to church etc. I honestly can say that I haven't felt the least bit spiritually compelled to go to church even ONE time in my life. Not once. I'm not trying to be an asshole about it or a religion hater. It's just how I feel.

I can understand that. If you don't find the right community, or you don't get involved it is really hard to relate or feel a draw to being part of it. I'm having that problem right now, and I am a lifetime of going every week kind of person. I even got really involved in some things there for the last several years. But when my friend who was allowed to be a "reader" for the last 15 years was told she had to stop because she was married in a Greek Orthodox church 20 freaking years ago!! not new news, I struggle with that. Why the movement in the church now to "shun" all these people when it WASN'T happening the last 20 years in my community? We have a ultra conservative bishop and I think he waited for the opportunity to do this! I really do! For those mission priests to pull out.

Our community is divided and I feel homeless:( A priest should NEVER make or break a church, but they 100% can I have learned the last couple of years. The church is it's people, the priest is just the guide. Unfortunately we have a priest who thinks "he" is the church right now. That is the struggle for me. BUT, I have used it as a learning experience for my kids. They have heard things at church that make me cringe the last year. And we talk about it after, and it gets us discussing God and how we feel or believe and I think that's been the only good that has come of it.

[Don]

Since Catholicism is involved, I might as well post this here so we can keep everything under one roof.

How paedophile priest was allowed to evade justice

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/n ... 556659.stm



All the children in Ayrfield, Dublin, knew fun-loving Father Bill Carney - not just the altar boys and those who met him through school, but members of the Scout troop he ran and the groups of local children he took swimming.

His door was always open, there was a ready supply of Coke in the fridge and in the 1980s he had the very latest thing to lure youngsters in - a video player.

Adults disapproved of his swearing and crazy driving, but the Catholic Church was still so trusted, no-one suspected the truth about him.

Bridie Dwyer still lives in Ayrfield. Above the fireplace, with other family photographs is a picture of her youngest child, Paul, on his first Communion day.

At the age of 13 Paul went with other boys to watch videos at Father Carney's house and to have a sleepover, Mrs Dwyer told me. But at 2am Paul unexpectedly returned home.

"Thought you were going for a sleepover?" she recalled asking him as he pushed past her. "Didn't want to stay," he replied and shut his door.

"That's when he'd been raped," Mrs Dwyer told me, "but I didn't know".

What no-one, except Carney's bishop and the local police, knew was that the priest was a paedophile.

The Murphy report into the cover up by the Catholic Church and Irish state of clerical sex abuse was published in November 2009.

It described Carney as "a serial sexual abuser of children, male and female", saying that there had been complaints and suspicions "in respect of 32 named individuals" about him, adding that "there is evidence he abused many more children".

Michael Wheeler, who as a boy was one of Carney's altar servers, said that following the report a strange but vivid memory from when he was young suddenly made sense.

He told me that when he was nine years old Carney was late for Mass one day, so, fearful that he might not turn up, he ran into the priest's house and called his name.

"I heard a groan," he said, "and I saw in the bedroom, a boy, a little older than me, naked between the sheets.

"This boy sat up, stared groggily at me, and fell back into the bed. I was terrified and ran out. As a child I couldn't understand why he was there. Now I know."

We now know that complaints about Carney were diverted away from the Irish criminal justice system to Bishop James Kavanagh, a man described by the Murphy Report as someone with "a soft spot for Carney".

Kavanagh did what he could to protect Carney from the law to avoid scandal for the Church.

One conscientious policeman, praised in the Murphy Report, did investigate complaints and they came to court. But the press were kept away as Carney pleaded guilty to two counts of indecent assault and got probation.

Six families were paid compensation and Carney was soon back working, with access to children.

In its 40 pages on Carney, the Murphy report said that his was one of the worst cases the commission investigated and that the Church's handling of his case was "nothing short of catastrophic".

"It was inept, self-serving and for the best part of 10 years displayed no obvious concern for the welfare of children," the report said.

In 1992, the Church convicted Carney internally, under Canon law, of child sexual abuse.

But this compulsive paedophile refused to leave the parish house. So the Church paid him £30,000 to go away.

He moved to Cheltenham and then to Scotland, where he has lived for the last 10 years running a family-friendly guest house in St Andrews.

Back in Dublin, it took Bridie's son Paul Dwyer 21 years to come forward, but in 2004 he told the police about his rape.

The police said they had received two other complaints like his and sent the file to the Irish director of public prosecutions (DPP), but the DPP said there was not enough evidence to prosecute.

"So the case stopped," his mother told me, "and, a couple of weeks later Paul committed suicide. He couldn't handle it any more.

"He wanted Carney in court so he could ask him why, why had Carney raped him? That never happened and the way things are going, the way the police and the clergy are handling it now I can't see it ever happening," she added.

That same year, in Scotland, Carney got married.

Newsnight has established that the Irish authorities knew his address but no-one, either from the Church or the Irish state, thought to warn his new wife about his past, or protect any children who might be at risk.

Nothing was done to prevent him leaving, as usual, for his winter holiday in the Canary Islands, a popular destination for families with children, and no-one warned the local police.

The Murphy report quotes a psychiatric assessment which says he suffers from a "psychopathic personality disorder".

"His refusal to acknowledge his paedophilia," it said, "means the prognosis for a cure is bleak".

I tracked Carney down in the Canary Islands, first at a restaurant on the sea front and then to the flat where he was staying, to ask about the abuse.

He refused to comment on the Murphy report, saying he had not read it.

He claimed that when he pleaded guilty to child sex abuse in 1983 it was not because he was guilty, but because: "I was told if I plead guilty the press would be kept away."

When I asked "Why did you rape Paul Dwyer?" his response was: "Rape. I'd like to explain that. Put it into context."

What kind of context, I asked, could excuse the rape of a child? But he did not answer.

And when I asked "Are you still abusing children?" his answer begged more questions.

"I haven't done that in 26 years and I have had no inclination," he said. But he refused to be drawn on whether that was admission that he had abused before.

Assistant Garda Commissioner John O'Mahoney has been assigned the task of investigating whether anyone should be prosecuted as a result of the revelations in the Murphy report.

These investigations, his office has said, are ongoing.

In Britain, the Home Office said that because Carney's two convictions for indecent assault pre-date the 2003 Sex Offender's Act and took place in Ireland he would not be on the Sex Offenders Register and would pass unseen through the new stricter vetting procedures for child protection.

Carney meanwhile remains free to disappear beneath the radar.

[Jana]

Our Catholic private school here in downtown Orlando for grade school and then the high school, Bishop Moore, are fantastic schools here in Orlando, and I've only heard great things about them. But a religious private school is just that, and they are within their rights to adhere to their beliefs. My sister went to put her son in a Presbyterian elementary private school here, and the questionnaire she found invasive especially about how much she worked outside the home, which she found judgmental, and their beliefs about Halloween seemed over the top to her, so decided against it. But it's a private school associated with a religion so you have to expect it and accept it or move on to a private or public school more suited to you and your child.

[StevePerryHair]

Our Catholic private school here in downtown Orlando for grade school and then the high school, Bishop Moore, are fantastic schools here in Orlando, and I've only heard great things about them. But a religious private school is just that, and they are within their rights to adhere to their beliefs. My sister went to put her son in a Presbyterian elementary private school here, and the questionnaire she found invasive especially about how much she worked outside the home, which she found judgmental, and their beliefs about Halloween seemed over the top to her, so decided against it. But it's a private school associated with a religion so you have to expect it and accept it or move on to a private or public school more suited to you and your child.

yes, I know several families, who are personal friends, who attend both of those schools and they are very happy. Of course BM costs as much as my college did Interesting though, these same friends are all struggling and/or leaving my church now it's the inconsistancy, as I said.

[Red13JoePa]

That's a minuscule % of Priests, RockinDeano.
No more than any other walk of life, really.

Should they have GOTTEN to be Priests, of course not.



Hurrah for this school, btw.

You know, I'm Catholic too. But I don't see how the school or I should say the "diocese" should get a "hurrah". First of all, what is this teaching the child? I mean it's this child's PARENTS who made that lifestyle choice. But he should be shunned by a religion and a school based on their choice? Second of all, what about all the other parents in that school who may have sexual relations outside of marriage? That's a pretty LAME and politically correct response they had to it! Too afraid to say it's because they think it's "wrong" to be gay??? Are they prepared to get rid of all those other kids with morally corrupt parents who do things against the church teachings? Cause GUESS WHAT!! You'd have a school with maybe 10 kids tops! And OMG, what if an affair comes to light!! Should those kids be let go too? I mean where does the moral judgement on PARENTS end. It's ridiculous to me. Unless there is more to the story that we aren't hearing about these parents, I don't get it. Of course I am in a diocese right now that feels like it is leaning so conservitively into the "old" church, I want to SCREAM, so maybe that is my concern with what's happening here. There is a move backwards to me ever since we lost Pope John Paul and it's frustrating me.

The church and catholic schools have always been a joke to me. My parents definitely consider their worst investment through their entire marriage was putting us through Catholic grade school.

get out what you put in.
How often do you or your ps go to mass?

Usually Christmas and Easter, but I'm pretty sure I missed Easter last year and I definitely missed Christmas.

LOL a C&E "Catholic" bashing the Church.

Sorry RedJoan (thanks Dean), that's just my experience with it. The pastor at my grade school was a total fucking asshole who made my mother cry on three occasions when we were dealing with them, he mouthed off to my dad, they treated us like crap (and everyone else... still in touch w/ my grade school friends and we still laugh about all the bullshit). He was certainly a godless man and I suspect he may have been implicated in pedophilia, as he up and resigned out of the blue with no explanation (eg health) in the middle of a school year after I was gone. Same experience at my Catholic grade school - the people think they are so special and that you oughta kiss their asses just for the divine privilege of being there. No thanks.

Now, if it makes you feel better, our local parish (I went to Catholic grade school in the neighboring town) actually seems like a great place if church is your thing - nice priests, great service with great band, they make you feel genuinely welcomed etc. Like I just explained to Lynn, I just don't get anything out of it, never have, probably never will. I'm just not a spiritual thinker and don't ever feel compelled to pray or attend church. It's just the way I am.

If church ISN'T "your thing" you're not really a Catholic anyway.
Nor would expect you to "get anything out of" mass.

If you think dude was implicated in the abuse, look him up if he was, he will be listed.
I read the Philly Dioceses grand jury report on the abuse and it was HARROWING.
It's online. But I separate those false Priests from the actual true agents of the Catholic Church.

[Jana]

Our Catholic private school here in downtown Orlando for grade school and then the high school, Bishop Moore, are fantastic schools here in Orlando, and I've only heard great things about them. But a religious private school is just that, and they are within their rights to adhere to their beliefs. My sister went to put her son in a Presbyterian elementary private school here, and the questionnaire she found invasive especially about how much she worked outside the home, which she found judgmental, and their beliefs about Halloween seemed over the top to her, so decided against it. But it's a private school associated with a religion so you have to expect it and accept it or move on to a private or public school more suited to you and your child.

yes, I know several families, who are personal friends, who attend both of those schools and they are very happy. Of course BM costs as much as my college did Interesting though, these same friends are all struggling and/or leaving my church now it's the inconsistancy, as I said.

No, I agree re the Catholic church. I would have to say maybe about 50 percent of my Catholic friends have left or do struggle with it for different reasons but many of them still like their children in those schools b/c they're so great. I had a circle of friends leave the Catholic church and all of them ended up in the Baptist church, b/c that's so huge in Atlanta. I was shocked, what a contrast. I was raised Southern Baptist and I struggled with being raised with hellfire and brimstone, though, they have really mellowed I think, and left after I got out of my parents' control and eventually in adulthood moved toward a more moderate church, Presbyterian Church, which has two factions, one more conservative. The one my sister looked at with the private school is way more conservative compared to the downtown Presbyterian church.

[StevePerryHair]

Our Catholic private school here in downtown Orlando for grade school and then the high school, Bishop Moore, are fantastic schools here in Orlando, and I've only heard great things about them. But a religious private school is just that, and they are within their rights to adhere to their beliefs. My sister went to put her son in a Presbyterian elementary private school here, and the questionnaire she found invasive especially about how much she worked outside the home, which she found judgmental, and their beliefs about Halloween seemed over the top to her, so decided against it. But it's a private school associated with a religion so you have to expect it and accept it or move on to a private or public school more suited to you and your child.

yes, I know several families, who are personal friends, who attend both of those schools and they are very happy. Of course BM costs as much as my college did Interesting though, these same friends are all struggling and/or leaving my church now it's the inconsistancy, as I said.

No, I agree re the Catholic church. I would have to say maybe about 50 percent of my Catholic friends have left or do struggle with it for different reasons but many of them still like their children in those schools b/c they're so great. I had a circle of friends leave the Catholic church and all of them ended up in the Baptist church, b/c that's so huge in Atlanta. I was shocked, what a contrast. I was raised Southern Baptist and I struggled with being raised with hellfire and brimstone, though, they have really mellowed I think, and left after I got out of my parents' control and eventually in adulthood moved toward a more moderate church, Presbyterian Church, which has two factions, one more conservative. The one my sister looked at with the private school is way more conservative compared to the downtown Presbyterian church.

I think I wrote that wrong, or at least made it confusing! Sorry! They aren't leaving the Catholic church, they are leaving our parish. I know I didnt' make that clear. People view Catholic churches as all being the same. And I am a witness that they are not. You don't have to leave a whole religion to find a nitche. But I think it's sad that there are so many inconsistencies between parishes that we have to move around like that. It drives me nuts But I would assume it's no different than any other denominations of churches. Because people are people.

[Jana]

Our Catholic private school here in downtown Orlando for grade school and then the high school, Bishop Moore, are fantastic schools here in Orlando, and I've only heard great things about them. But a religious private school is just that, and they are within their rights to adhere to their beliefs. My sister went to put her son in a Presbyterian elementary private school here, and the questionnaire she found invasive especially about how much she worked outside the home, which she found judgmental, and their beliefs about Halloween seemed over the top to her, so decided against it. But it's a private school associated with a religion so you have to expect it and accept it or move on to a private or public school more suited to you and your child.

yes, I know several families, who are personal friends, who attend both of those schools and they are very happy. Of course BM costs as much as my college did Interesting though, these same friends are all struggling and/or leaving my church now it's the inconsistancy, as I said.

No, I agree re the Catholic church. I would have to say maybe about 50 percent of my Catholic friends have left or do struggle with it for different reasons but many of them still like their children in those schools b/c they're so great. I had a circle of friends leave the Catholic church and all of them ended up in the Baptist church, b/c that's so huge in Atlanta. I was shocked, what a contrast. I was raised Southern Baptist and I struggled with being raised with hellfire and brimstone, though, they have really mellowed I think, and left after I got out of my parents' control and eventually in adulthood moved toward a more moderate church, Presbyterian Church, which has two factions, one more conservative. The one my sister looked at with the private school is way more conservative compared to the downtown Presbyterian church.

I think I wrote that wrong, or at least made it confusing! Sorry! They aren't leaving the Catholic church, they are leaving our parish. I know I didnt' make that clear. People view Catholic churches as all being the same. And I am a witness that they are not. You don't have to leave a whole religion to find a nitche. But I think it's sad that there are so many inconsistencies between parishes that we have to move around like that. It drives me nuts But I would assume it's no different than any other denominations of churches. Because people are people.

Most definitely it isn't any different that way. All churches at one time or another have power struggles within the higher-ups and a change in priests or ministers can affect the direction of the church.

[StevePerryHair]

Our Catholic private school here in downtown Orlando for grade school and then the high school, Bishop Moore, are fantastic schools here in Orlando, and I've only heard great things about them. But a religious private school is just that, and they are within their rights to adhere to their beliefs. My sister went to put her son in a Presbyterian elementary private school here, and the questionnaire she found invasive especially about how much she worked outside the home, which she found judgmental, and their beliefs about Halloween seemed over the top to her, so decided against it. But it's a private school associated with a religion so you have to expect it and accept it or move on to a private or public school more suited to you and your child.

yes, I know several families, who are personal friends, who attend both of those schools and they are very happy. Of course BM costs as much as my college did Interesting though, these same friends are all struggling and/or leaving my church now it's the inconsistancy, as I said.

No, I agree re the Catholic church. I would have to say maybe about 50 percent of my Catholic friends have left or do struggle with it for different reasons but many of them still like their children in those schools b/c they're so great. I had a circle of friends leave the Catholic church and all of them ended up in the Baptist church, b/c that's so huge in Atlanta. I was shocked, what a contrast. I was raised Southern Baptist and I struggled with being raised with hellfire and brimstone, though, they have really mellowed I think, and left after I got out of my parents' control and eventually in adulthood moved toward a more moderate church, Presbyterian Church, which has two factions, one more conservative. The one my sister looked at with the private school is way more conservative compared to the downtown Presbyterian church.

I think I wrote that wrong, or at least made it confusing! Sorry! They aren't leaving the Catholic church, they are leaving our parish. I know I didnt' make that clear. People view Catholic churches as all being the same. And I am a witness that they are not. You don't have to leave a whole religion to find a nitche. But I think it's sad that there are so many inconsistencies between parishes that we have to move around like that. It drives me nuts But I would assume it's no different than any other denominations of churches. Because people are people.

Most definitely it isn't any different that way. All churches at one time or another have power struggles within the higher-ups and a change in priests or ministers can affect the direction of the church.

yeah, I think I've just been spoiled and lucky for a lot of years until now

[parfait]

I'm a atheist.