Saturday Poll: Perry & Castronovo

[steveo777]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

[Michigan Girl]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

Nope he's right, you need to do something about your hearing/taste!!
It's sorta like trying to compare Arnel w/Perry!! Both good but
noooo comparison ... one is definitely better than the other ...
and don't ever tell Tommy what to do!!!

[parfait]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

Nope he's right, you need to do something about your hearing/taste!!
It's sorta like trying to compare Arnel w/Perry!! Both good but
noooo comparison ... one is definitely better than the other ...
and don't ever tell Tommy what to do!!!

Gotta agree with the cougar on this one. Seriously, Smithy is miles ahead of Deen in any way; timing, precision, groove and feel. Deen's got a great voice, and he's a OK hard rock/rock drummer, but that's about it.

Steve Smith didn't really shine until Trial by Fire though. It wasn't until after he had studied under Freddie Gruber, that his playing just became complete epicness.

[Jana]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

I guess Steve Perry ignored that great drummer, too, and fired him and hired a session drummer. That' how replaceable Steve treated him.

[Michigan Girl]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

I guess Steve Perry ignored that great drummer, too, and fired him and hired a session drummer. That' how replaceable Steve treated him.

Mistakes, eh?!?! Yet Smitty didn't want to go on without him ...

[parfait]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

I guess Steve Perry ignored that great drummer, too, and fired him and hired a session drummer. That' how replaceable Steve treated him.

Take Neal's dick outta your mouth for once, please! Perry said he regretted firing Smith and Valory.

[Don]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

[Red13JoePa]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

[Don]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

[steveo777]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

Why did Journey suddenly decide they needed click tracks? Was it just new technology that came about that they decided to use? How can you tell a drummer uses click tracks?

[Don]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

Why did Journey suddenly decide they needed click tracks? Was it just new technology that came about that they decided to use?

It came in to heavy use for music with the digital age. It just makes everything synchronize easier. Journey uses so much layered vocals and synthesizers, it just brings everything together. It can make things sound generic though as the little things inherent with playing live and loose tend to get lost.
I think SMPTE time code has replaced click tracks as the new tool for obtaining synchronicity.
At this point in Journey's career, the synchronization of instruments with canned vocals are such an important part of what they do, I can see why they might struggle in an acoustic environment where you need harmonies including all the members, not just two guys.
Boz Scaggs and The Moody Blues use backup singers to try to keep their shows as live as possible but most rock acts seem to go the tape route to keep the payroll smaller and the music tighter sounding (thought at times it does have a artificial feel to it).

[steveo777]

http://www.cavemanproductions.com/REVS/ssmithiv.html

Here's a good Steve Smith interview. I was intrigued by the following part:

SS: When I realized this reunion was inevitable, I decided to really do my home work on rock 'n' roll. When I first joined the band in '78, I was coming from more of a jazz background, with pretty limited rock 'n' roll knowledge. I knew of the groups of the '60s, like Hendrix, Cream, and Led Zeppelin, but I had never done any major research on rock 'n' roll history. I had done that with jazz.

In the last few years, I really traced the roots of the instrument, the music, and the different players. When I first joined Journey, I played the music intuitively I was sort of a toned-down fusion drummer at the time. But for this reunion, I decided to approach the music from a completely different perspective, more from the roots of rock'n' roll.

Not bad for a guy that claims to have not really understood rock n roll at the time.

[Art Vandelay]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

Actually, what you're referring to is a metronome. Most drummers use this to help keep time, whether in practice or for actual recording sessions. Accuracy is the main ingredient for playing, and a metronome helps build on that. Smith uses one in his first set of instructional videos, which were recorded around '87-88. You see Aynsley Dunbar wearing headphones for this as well in a few of his Journey appearances on video, so I don't think this is what Smith had issues with. I believe that Smith had an issue with the band creating the entire drum part using a click track, not allowing Smith any freedom of writing his own part. Think of it as paint by numbers. This isn't a slam to any drummers who use this method, it's just not the right feel/approach for certain players. Danny Ceraphine would wear headphones on stage hooked to a metronome when he played for Chicago back in the '70's.

[Don]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

Actually, what you're referring to is a metronome. Most drummers use this to help keep time, whether in practice or for actual recording sessions. Accuracy is the main ingredient for playing, and a metronome helps build on that. Smith uses one in his first set of instructional videos, which were recorded around '87-88. You see Aynsley Dunbar wearing headphones for this as well in a few of his Journey appearances on video, so I don't think this is what Smith had issues with. I believe that Smith had an issue with the band creating the entire drum part using a click track, not allowing Smith any freedom of writing his own part. Think of it as paint by numbers. This isn't a slam to any drummers who use this method, it's just not the right feel/approach for certain players.

I was going to say Metronome but thought that might cause even more confusion. I agree completely with you though on the thought that Smitty didn't want to be part of something that excluded him from the process and put him in the role of a generic studio drummer.
I could see why having a singing drummer might really require this.

[Art Vandelay]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

Actually, what you're referring to is a metronome. Most drummers use this to help keep time, whether in practice or for actual recording sessions. Accuracy is the main ingredient for playing, and a metronome helps build on that. Smith uses one in his first set of instructional videos, which were recorded around '87-88. You see Aynsley Dunbar wearing headphones for this as well in a few of his Journey appearances on video, so I don't think this is what Smith had issues with. I believe that Smith had an issue with the band creating the entire drum part using a click track, not allowing Smith any freedom of writing his own part. Think of it as paint by numbers. This isn't a slam to any drummers who use this method, it's just not the right feel/approach for certain players.

I was going to say Metronome but thought that might cause even more confusion. I agree completely with you though on the thought that Smitty didn't want to be part of something that excluded him from the process and put him in the role of a generic studio drummer.
I could see why having a singing drummer might really require this.

Ha! Yeah you're probably right. And again, there's nothing wrong with playing to a pre-recorded click track. It takes a lot of focus to do so. It's like cooking vs. baking. You can improvise ingredients with cooking. If you mess up a pre-measured ingredient when baking, you're screwed.

[Since 78]

After hearing Castronovo sing, I actually can't stand Perry or Pineda. Castronovo has the best voice Journey has ever seen. "A Better Life" is some of the best vocal work in the Journey catalog. If Perry was smart, he'd keep Castronovo...someone's gotta sing the high notes

[Since 78]

Listen to Steve Perry's studio verson of "Mother Father" then listen to Deen live. Deen sounds better live than Steve does in the studio. I cannot stand the way Steve sings the line "an empty stare" Deen kicks his ass.

You're kidding Right?

Wow!

[Michigan Girl]

After hearing Castronovo sing, I actually can't stand Perry or Pineda. Castronovo has the best voice Journey has ever seen. "A Better Life" is some of the best vocal work in the Journey catalog. If Perry was smart, he'd keep Castronovo...someone's gotta sing the high notes

And I thought Steveo was the ass!!

[Tomulator]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

I absolutely agree w/^^^^^^!! But he sings well, Tommy!!
I liked Beth, too and Hard Luck Woman is my anthem!! A singing drummer is good sometimes!!!:wink:

Agreed...just not within the "classic Journey" lineup.

No need for it, IMO. Kiss yes, yes, YES!

There...we just had our "first" fight! Buckeyes and Wolverines never agree on everything!

[Tomulator]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

Uhhh...let's see...uhh...ummm....

No.

[Tomulator]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

I guess Steve Perry ignored that great drummer, too, and fired him and hired a session drummer. That' how replaceable Steve treated him.

He realized he made a mistake by firing Smith. He apologized and said that he wouldn't do it the same way if he had it to do over again.

Good enough for me.

Believe me, Perry knows how GREAT a drummer Smitty is!

[Tomulator]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

Nope he's right, you need to do something about your hearing/taste!!
It's sorta like trying to compare Arnel w/Perry!! Both good but
noooo comparison ... one is definitely better than the other ...
and don't ever tell Tommy what to do!!!

Thx MG!

[Michigan Girl]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

I absolutely agree w/^^^^^^!! But he sings well, Tommy!!
I liked Beth, too and Hard Luck Woman is my anthem!! A singing drummer is good sometimes!!!:wink:

Agreed...just not within the "classic Journey" lineup.

No need for it, IMO. Kiss yes, yes, YES!

There...we just had our "first" fight! Buckeyes and Wolverines never agree on everything!

Oh, the classic lineup ...well scratch that fight!!!

[Michigan Girl]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

Nope he's right, you need to do something about your hearing/taste!!
It's sorta like trying to compare Arnel w/Perry!! Both good but
noooo comparison ... one is definitely better than the other ...
and don't ever tell Tommy what to do!!!

Gotta agree with the cougar on this one. Seriously, Smithy is miles ahead of Deen in any way; timing, precision, groove and feel. Deen's got a great voice, and he's a OK hard rock/rock drummer, but that's about it.

Steve Smith didn't really shine until Trial by Fire though. It wasn't until after he had studied under Freddie Gruber, that his playing just became complete epicness.

Hey, we're batting two for two ...abnormal

[steveo777]

It's funny how everyone on here completely IGNORES the impact Smitty's DRUMMING has on the "classic Journey" sound.

Nobody cares whether he (or ANY drummer) can sing or would sing or should sing.

Smith's drumming puts Dean's to SHAME. No question about it and SMFP would realize that IMMEDIATELY and that is the TRUE reason Perry would push for Smitty.

Knock it the fuck off and stop exagerating. There is nothing shameful about Deens drumming. Yes, Smitty is / was great, but please, Deen is very good too! Who gives a shit what Perry would do? He's not coming back.

Nope he's right, you need to do something about your hearing/taste!!
It's sorta like trying to compare Arnel w/Perry!! Both good but
noooo comparison ... one is definitely better than the other ...
and don't ever tell Tommy what to do!!!

Gotta agree with the cougar on this one. Seriously, Smithy is miles ahead of Deen in any way; timing, precision, groove and feel. Deen's got a great voice, and he's a OK hard rock/rock drummer, but that's about it.

Steve Smith didn't really shine until Trial by Fire though. It wasn't until after he had studied under Freddie Gruber, that his playing just became complete epicness.

Hey, we're batting two for two ...abnormal

I think we all know what "abonormal" is............the two of you! LOL

[Rockindeano]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

And don't those "audio ques" come from, and are sent by Friga and his laptop on top of the piano?

[Don]

I thought Smitty quit because he didn't want to play along to a click track.

In 86 or 97? In 86 the boys canned him though perry takes full blame for it in the BTM.

How do click tracks work anyway? Never fully grasped.

The drummer uses a headset and gets audio ques to help him keep a consistent beat. Sort of like an instrumental Karaoke or an conductor giving you signals audibly instead of visually.

And don't those "audio ques" come from, and are sent by Friga and his laptop on top of the piano?

Most Electronic keyboards have built-in metronome functions so there is your answer.

[Saint John]

He realized he made a mistake by firing Smith. He apologized and said that he wouldn't do it the same way if he had it to do over again.

See, I disagree here. Public perception guided his "apology." Had Smith not become so accomplished and renowned after the fact, making the Nostrildamus decision look so stupid, he would have never admitted he was wrong. He basically admitted he was wrong because he had to ... not because he wanted to or thought so.

Funny how not one person speaks highly of their time in the band with this dude as a person. Speaks volumes. Herbert, Rolie, Cain, Valory, Smith and Schon all think Nostrildamus is a douche.

[Michigan Girl]

Who cares, really!! Smitty, after being fired or whatever, still wouldn't go on
without the "douche" ...speaks volumes!!!

[Ligzig]

He realized he made a mistake by firing Smith. He apologized and said that he wouldn't do it the same way if he had it to do over again.

See, I disagree here. Public perception guided his "apology." Had Smith not become so accomplished and renowned after the fact, making the Nostrildamus decision look so stupid, he would have never admitted he was wrong. He basically admitted he was wrong because he had to ... not because he wanted to or thought so.

Funny how not one person speaks highly of their time in the band with this dude as a person. Speaks volumes. Herbert, Rolie, Cain, Valory, Smith and Schon all think Nostrildamus is a douche.

His female fanbase seem to know exactly what "Stevie" thinks.

I think they are more credible than the people who actually worked with him. DDDDD