President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby separate_wayz » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:51 am

Rockindeano wrote:
separate_wayz wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:ROTFLMAO.

Good luck Pubbies!


Might wanna save your best wishes and good lucks for the 6-10 Democratic senators and 50-70 Democratic congressmen who won't be returning to Washington after the November elections.

Not sure how Obama intends to pursue his agenda beyond 2010 when he has a split Senate and a GOP House, when he can't even deliver his own party right now.


You must be brimming with pride, knowing your party is doing everything in it's power to stall and stop any legislation from getting done.

Congratulations, I guess. You really have indeed sunk this low; I for one didn't think it was possible for the republican party to be this much of a complete joke, but alas, it sure as fuck is.


How are the Republicans stopping anything?

There are only 178 Republicans in the House -- far short of the 217 needed for a majority (with 432 currently seated members, with 3 vacancies). So if the bill fails, it's because 38 Democrats joined Republicans and voted 'no'. Like it or not, that's another version of bipartisanship.

And there's nothing wrong with voting against a bad bill based on questionable assumptions. That's an act of responsibility and good stewardship of the public trust.

Personally, I believe if the Democratic leadership wants to strain the use of parliamentary procedures and long-standing House or Senate rules to enact their health care bill, I say "go for it". (I guess that makes me a procedural Hobbesian.) But .... I also believe that if such tactics are used, voters should be absolutely merciless in their judgement in the following election, if they consider such tactics as underhanded and shady. And I think both parts of this equation are going to happen.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:07 am

Jon Voigt? Come on, MapleLeafsMan.

BTW, do you remember when it was the Snorris Division - when maybe one team was over .500? You had the Detroit Dead Things, the Chicago Crackhawks, the Minnesota No Stars, the Toronto Make Beliefs, and the St. Louis Boobs.
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Postby Saint John » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:16 am

7 Wishes wrote:BTW, do you remember when it was the Norris Division - when maybe one team was over .500?


Yeah, that was when every team in hockey, except one, made the playoffs. :lol:
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:23 am

The Whalers probably played the Bruins 20 times each year, given their inevitable first-round demise (if they beat out the Nordiques for the last spot). Old time hockey!!!
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Postby separate_wayz » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:12 am

The Christian Science Monitor (March 18 ) is saying what I said a week ago: Barbara Boxer is an endangered species.

Scott Brown effect: Could Senator Barbara Boxer lose California?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2 ... California
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:31 am

Riiight. But deliberately lying to Congress, the House, the American people, and the world about non-existent, fabricated "reasons" for delcaring an illegal war is NOT in the same category, right?

The CBO's estimates always worked for you dittoheads when they appeared to somewhat diminish the cost of the debt- and defecit- financed GOP-strongarmed legislation in the first half of the past decade. Now the fact that a plan that will HELP not only 32 million Americans without insurance but also bring down costs for 90 FUCKING PERCENT of those people who HAVE IT NOW - and will also cost LESS THAN KEEPING THE STATUS QUO NOW - is going to "ruin America"? Wow, you people really do deliberately have your heads up your collective asses. Unreal.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:54 am

Another well-sourced find, Lie Finder.

Continued success on the succor of your ignorance and hypocrisy.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:05 am

7 Wishes wrote:Jon Voigt? Come on, MapleLeafsMan.

I'm assuming you're addressing me here. Listen here 7 braincells.....you would really benefit by using the quote function. Not only would it help others know when you are addressing their posts, but it would obviously help you to know that fact finder made the post about Voight.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:10 am

7 braincells? You're the guys who keep ignoring basic facts. You haven't addressed the GOP debt- and defecit- spending issue, nor the CBO's estimate that the healthcare plan will save $1.4 trillion over the next 20 years, or any other real issue.

Don't mock me, jackass. You're perhaps the most feeble-minded schmuck on this board this side of squirt.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:14 am

Fact Finder wrote:LEAKED: Secret Dem plan to add $371 BILLION MORE to health mess...


http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0310/ ... ml?showall



EXCLUSIVE -- Democrats plan doc fix after reform - March 19, 2010


Democrats are planning to introduce legislation later this spring that would permanently repeal annual Medicare cuts to doctors, but are warning lawmakers not to talk about it for fear that it will complicate their push to pass comprehensive health reform. The plans undercut the party's message that reform lowers the deficit, according to a memo obtained by POLITICO.

Democrats removed the so-called doc fix from the reform legislation last year because its $371-billion price tag would have made it impossible for Democrats to claim that their bill reduces the deficit. Republicans have argued for months that by stripping the doc fix from the bill, Democrats were playing a shell game.

“Most health staff are already aware that our health proposal does not contain a 'doc fix.' … The inclusion of a full SGR repeal would undermine reform’s budget neutrality. So again, do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered,” the memo, sent Thursday to Democratic staff, said.

“As most health staff knows, leadership and the White House are working with the AMA to rally physicians for a full SGR repeal later this spring. However, both health and communications staff should understand we do not want that policy discussion discussed at this time, lest (it) complicate the last critical push to pass health reform,” according to the memo.

The memo helps explains why the American Medical Association has supported reform even though their top legislative priority, the doc fix, was left out. The group is working behind the scenes with Democratic leadership and the White House to fix the cuts later this year.

Indeed, in a statement this afternoon, the AMA announced its support for the reconciliation bill -- and hinted that the debate is not over with reform's passage.

“This is not the last step, but the next step toward real health system reform. We will remain actively engaged with Congress and the administration to ensure that before Congress adjourns there are additional important changes to our health system," AMA president James Rohack said. "Congress must act to preserve access to care for seniors and military families by permanently repealing the Medicare physician payment formula that will cut Medicare payments by 21 percent next month.”

The memo also repeatedly advises Democrats not to discuss the details of the CBO score.

“We cannot emphasize this enough: do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered," the memo says.




UPDATE: Politico can't verify the authenticity of the 'leaked secret memo" and have removed it.

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0310/ ... ml?showall
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:24 am

Shocking. :roll:

The GOP will stop at NOTHING to maintain the status quo, and continue to make the rich richer, and line the pockets of Big Insurance, Big Oil, Big Coal, Big Electric, and all their other shady contributors. It's really jaw-droppingly unbelievable.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:56 am

7 Wishes wrote:7 braincells? You're the guys who keep ignoring basic facts. You haven't addressed the GOP debt- and defecit- spending issue, nor the CBO's estimate that the healthcare plan will save $1.4 trillion over the next 20 years, or any other real issue.

Don't mock me, jackass. You're perhaps the most feeble-minded schmuck on this board this side of squirt.

How about you go back in this very thread among others and read how many conservatives, including myself complained about Bush's spending. You think it's logical for us to now remain silent now that Obama is making Bush look like a small fry piker? You're the brain dead lemming around here "Mr global warming as the Earth is cooling."
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:01 am

Except Bush spent trillions using nothing but debt- and defecit- financing, whereas much of Obama's will pay for itself or is tied into fixing Dubbya's SECOND recession.
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Postby separate_wayz » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:04 am

7 Wishes wrote:Shocking. :roll:

The GOP will stop at NOTHING to maintain the status quo, and continue to make the rich richer, and line the pockets of Big Insurance, Big Oil, Big Coal, Big Electric, and all their other shady contributors. It's really jaw-droppingly unbelievable.


Don't forget Big Banking, Big Labor, and Big 3 Automakers. Really is shocking to see what they've been up to lately, and what their contributions have bought.

Big Brother has been showing his head lately a lot too .....
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:08 am

Whatever. Wall Street has always had the GOP in its back pocket, and you know it.

Excepting the unions, Big Auto also contributes to Republicans at a much greater clip than Democrats - because the GOP excels at making the richest 10% much richer while simultaneously ensuring the extinction of the middle class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E8GT1Saly0

Find me ONE EXAMPLE of a Democratic or even left-leaning organization where reprehensible behavior like this is exemplified or encouraged.

And the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, and the Rovian-Bush eavesdropping legislation is the ONLY example of any macabre governmental Orwellian spectre this past decade.

I love how you guys want the government to tell people what they can do with their bodies, whom they can and cannot marry, but don't want them using tax dollars to help people. It's a complete and total disregard - no, disdain - for your fellow man. When it suits you, it becomes the worn-out "smaller government" spiel, which is ironic since the GOP has been responsible for the addition of 83% of the newly created government jobs since 1960. And you have NO FUCKING IDEA how to handle an economy - TRICKLE DOWN DOES NOT WORK. Period.

Yet I could find THOUSANDS of videos where right-leaning or ultra-conservative groups pull this kind of crap.

Contratulations on being a member of the party of ignorance and empathy fatigue.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:39 am

WASHINGTON – One by one, House Democratic fence-sitters began choosing sides Friday, and the long, turbulent struggle over landmark health care legislation tilted unmistakably in President Barack Obama's direction.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

I've heard crow tastes like shit. Enjoy, GOP hatemongers!
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:54 am

7 Wishes wrote:Except Bush spent trillions using nothing but debt- and defecit- financing, whereas much of Obama's will pay for itself or is tied into fixing Dubbya's SECOND recession.

So tell me Einstein, do you think Obama's gov't run healthcare will reduce the deficit as much as his slush....er, "stimulous bill did? God you're gullible
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Postby separate_wayz » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:06 am

7 Wishes wrote:Whatever. Wall Street has always had the GOP in its back pocket, and you know it.

Excepting the unions, Big Auto also contributes to Republicans at a much greater clip than Democrats - because the GOP excels at making the richest 10% much richer while simultaneously ensuring the extinction of the middle class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E8GT1Saly0

Find me ONE EXAMPLE of a Democratic or even left-leaning organization where reprehensible behavior like this is exemplified or encouraged.

And the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, and the Rovian-Bush eavesdropping legislation is the ONLY example of any macabre governmental Orwellian spectre this past decade.

I love how you guys want the government to tell people what they can do with their bodies, whom they can and cannot marry, but don't want them using tax dollars to help people. It's a complete and total disregard - no, disdain - for your fellow man. When it suits you, it becomes the worn-out "smaller government" spiel, which is ironic since the GOP has been responsible for the addition of 83% of the newly created government jobs since 1960. And you have NO FUCKING IDEA how to handle an economy - TRICKLE DOWN DOES NOT WORK. Period.

Yet I could find THOUSANDS of videos where right-leaning or ultra-conservative groups pull this kind of crap.

Contratulations on being a member of the party of ignorance and empathy fatigue.


Do you realize that everyone is utterly unimpressed with your claims of having an empathy surplus and moral superiority, when you're talking about spending other people's money (I.e., tax dollars collected by the IRS)?
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Postby gr8dane » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:18 am

RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Except Bush spent trillions using nothing but debt- and defecit- financing, whereas much of Obama's will pay for itself or is tied into fixing Dubbya's SECOND recession.

So tell me Einstein, do you think Obama's gov't run healthcare will reduce the deficit as much as his slush....er, "stimulous bill did? God you're gullible


So you admit the Bush era made a defecit?
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:19 am

First of all, you're paraphrazing.

Secondly, I don't give a rat's ass what YOU think, or anyone else, for that matter.

This is a political discussion forum, not a social network site. We're bound by our AOR addiction, but little else.

Find me ONE piece of legislation initiated and enacted by Republicans that trumps a similar Democratic proposal that shows a higher degree of empathy for his or her fellow man, from the past 50 years, and then get back to me.

Here's what's so ridiculous about your position.

Unless your income puts you in the top 10%, you're actually paying LESS in taxes under Obama than you did under your hero, Dubbya. FACT.

On average, healthcare costs cleave 30% off the average American's take home pay. So now there's a piece of legislation that will REDUCE that cost for you - and you oppose it, ONLY because you're thinking the way Fox and the Chickenhawk Five TELL you to think...because the fact is, it will HELP people - not just those pesty poor and needy, but the average American as well. That's why the AMA has endorsed it; also, once people are informed of WHAT constitutes the bill, MORE APPROVE OF IT THAN OPPOSE IT. So your party's propaganda campaign will not work in the long run; once people realize the plan will HELP THEM and SAVE THEM MONEY (FACT), they will support it in droves - and yours, the party of "no," will be remembered as the one that attempted to squelch it.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:20 am

gr8dane wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Except Bush spent trillions using nothing but debt- and defecit- financing, whereas much of Obama's will pay for itself or is tied into fixing Dubbya's SECOND recession.

So tell me Einstein, do you think Obama's gov't run healthcare will reduce the deficit as much as his slush....er, "stimulous bill did? God you're gullible


So you admit the Bush era made a defecit?


That Bush's fiscal policy incurred debt and bloated the defecit at a higher rate than even Reagan is beyond dispute - it is statistical fact. There's no way around it. And there' s no way around the fact the GOP strongarmed (via reconciliation) legislation they KNEW couldn't be paid for and KNEW was defecit- and debt- financed, because "it was understood that's how things were done [in the Bush Administration]".
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Postby RedWingFan » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:52 pm

7 Wishes wrote: also, once people are informed of WHAT constitutes the bill, MORE APPROVE OF IT THAN OPPOSE IT. So your party's propaganda campaign will not work in the long run; once people realize the plan will HELP THEM and SAVE THEM MONEY (FACT), they will support it in droves

Ah yes, we the people are the ones that are too stupid to know what's good for us. We conservatives are so arrogant as to think we can read and interpret our liberties in the Constitution. History is littered with fools like you who are first in line to have the shackles slapped on you in the name of GOVERNMENT healthcare. You are a mindless lemming. How much colder does. It have to get before you abandon your federal grant receiving scientists? I know what your problem is. You're so desperate to be seen as smart and intellectual, you try to align yourself with whatever % of scientists you make up or the snobiest and elitist politician you can. You seeth at Palin because she's not Ivy league smart while you towel off another dude at the gym. Lol
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Postby 7 Wishes » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:25 pm

Wow; now we're resorting to gay jokes? Wow. You are a world-class asshole.

As someone who couldn't give two shits about anyone else's opinion, why would I be desperate to be seen as "powerful smart and intellectual"?

Why would I ignore scientific and fiduciary fact in order to align myself with the majority of people who post here?

RWF, no-one likes Palin. She has ZERO CHANCE of becoming President, and the fact that you would defend someone as ignorant and stupid as her tells me everything I need to know about you.

So, no matter how many facts fly in the face of the beliefs you're told you have, you refuse to see. So who cares? You're not worth the time.
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Postby conversationpc » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:20 pm

7 Wishes wrote:Wow; now we're resorting to gay jokes? Wow. You are a world-class asshole.


Selective outrage. Gotta love it. Deano and TNC have thrown down more gay jokes on this forum than almost everyone else.
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Postby Saint John » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:22 pm

The gay jokes stay! :lol:
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Postby RedWingFan » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:31 pm

Saint John wrote:The gay jokes stay! :lol:

I purposely threw that in there to get you back in this thread!!! :lol:
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Postby RedWingFan » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:46 pm

7 Wishes wrote:Find me ONE piece of legislation initiated and enacted by Republicans that trumps a similar Democratic proposal that shows a higher degree of empathy for his or her fellow man, from the past 50 years, and then get back to me.

Easy....Welfare reform in 1996. Democrats were all for continuing to impose their "empathy" on those without jobs and keeping them feeling useless and directionless and on the government tit. Until that is those evil republicans forced them to actually work and reduce the child poverty rate.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor ... m_success/

Welfare reform success
By Jeff Jacoby | September 13, 2006

LILLIE HARDEN was a 32-year-old mother of three from Little Rock, Ark., when Bill Clinton met her at a panel on reforming welfare in 1986. Harden had collected welfare for two years before finding work and had come to speak about her experience. Clinton asked her what was best about being off welfare. Her reply: ``When my boy goes to school and they say, `What does your mama do for a living?' he can give an answer."

Ten years later, when Clinton was in the White House, he invited Harden to join him as he signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 -- welfare reform -- into law. In his remarks, Clinton recalled her answer of a decade earlier, and added: ``I have never forgotten that."

For all that Clinton got wrong, welfare reform was one thing he ended up getting very right. He had vetoed two previous reform bills passed by the Republican-controlled Congress, and when the House and Senate came back with a third bill, liberal pressure for another veto was intense. But political strategist Dick Morris warned Clinton that a third veto could cost him the 1996 election, and so, pronouncing it a ``historic opportunity to do what is right," he signed the bill.

The chorus of outrage from the left was deafening. Marian Wright Edelman, chairman of the Children's Defense Fund, warned that Clinton's signature would ``leave a moral blot on his presidency and on our nation." Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont denounced the bill as ``anti-family, anti child, and mean-spirited." Hugh Price, head of the National Urban League, declared that ``Washington has decided to end the War on Poverty and begin a war on children." Over and over it was said that welfare reform would wreak social devastation, throwing vast numbers of people, including a million children, into poverty.

Peter Edelman, the husband of Marian Wright Edelman and an assistant secretary of health and human services, resigned in protest and condemned the new law in a long article -- ``The Worst Thing Bill Clinton Has Done" -- in The Atlantic. It predicted, among other things, ``more malnutrition and more crime, increased infant mortality, and increased drug and alcohol abuse . . . increased family violence and abuse against children and women." He concluded, this ``terrible legislation" would do ``serious injury to American children."

It did none of those things.

What it did do was end the condescending attitude that the poor were incapable of improving their situation, and that ``compassion" consisted of supplying money indefinitely to women who had children, but no husbands or jobs. That approach had lured millions into lives of dependency, subsidized an explosion of fatherlessness, and infected neighborhoods with a bias against work and marriage. The bill that Clinton signed replaced deadly condescension with respect. For the first time, welfare would come with strings attached: work requirements and time limits designed to encourage responsibility and self-sufficiency.

The results speak for themselves. Since peaking in 1994, the nation's welfare caseload plummeted by 60 percent, falling from 5 million families to fewer than 2 million. Welfare recipients went to work in droves. The employment rate among those who had been likeliest to slip into long-term dependence -- young mothers who had never been married -- soared by nearly 100 percent. And as more and more mothers left welfare and got jobs, more and more of their children were lifted out of poverty.

Far from throwing a million kids into the streets, welfare reform sent the child poverty rate tumbling, from 20.8 percent in 1995 to 17.8 percent in 2004. In black communities, where welfare had done the most damage, the decline was even more dramatic. ``Black child poverty plummeted at an unprecedented rate, falling to 30.0 percent in 2001," Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation testified before Congress . ``In 2001, despite the recession, the poverty rate for black children was at the lowest point in national history."

Not everything has been reformed. The 1996 law affected only the basic welfare program, Aid to Families with Dependent Children. But dozens of other welfare entitlements, such as food stamps and Medicaid, still operate under the old rules. And while the out-of-wedlock birth rate is no longer skyrocketing, it is still far too high -- as are the poverty and social chaos it begets.

That said, it is clear that welfare reform has been a shining success. The Republican Congress that passed it and the Democratic president who signed it turned out to be truer champions of the poor than those who inveighed against it so hysterically.
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Postby Rick » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:37 pm

RedWingFan wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Find me ONE piece of legislation initiated and enacted by Republicans that trumps a similar Democratic proposal that shows a higher degree of empathy for his or her fellow man, from the past 50 years, and then get back to me.

Easy....Welfare reform in 1996. Democrats were all for continuing to impose their "empathy" on those without jobs and keeping them feeling useless and directionless and on the government tit. Until that is those evil republicans forced them to actually work and reduce the child poverty rate.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editor ... m_success/


That's not empathy. :lol: Tough love, maybe? Definitely not empathy.
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Postby Saint John » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:15 am

Whether they get the votes or not, my life will impacted minimally. That said, if/when they do get the votes, I'll adjust my finances and lifestyle accordingly, and continue to lead a very happy life. :)

I suspect that they'll have the votes and the people that are shameful, lazy Americans will have it even easier. It's getting to the point where there's no point for these people to even try to find work. If you take out the 25% of people actually affected by this (24% of whom are lazy, prideless fucks and 1% of whom are legitimate hardship cases), the American taxpayers ... you know, the ones paying for this, are overwhelmingly against this. People on welfare should not be allowed to vote. This country would be a lot better off. :evil:
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Postby Jana » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:24 am

for all of us self-employed and for so many of my middle-class friends whose companies have stopped coverage or so many have lost their jobs and are now seeing the astronomical cost of health care coverage for their families, health care reform is something desperately needed. I can't begin to tell you the number of people I know who were afraid of this years ago, myself included, but are now in favor of it b/c of how health care coverage has affected their lives after being covered all of their lives and now bearing the burden with policies sky-rocketing every year, not just a minimal jump in cost annually. It's shocking. I wouldn't have said this four years ago. I pray this is the answer, but to do nothing is more fightening to me.
Jana
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