Yes We Can ! ;)

[Rockindeano]

Premiums will go up. Simple economics dictate if you add pre-existing conditions, no caps on coverage, those who only buy insurance when they get sick, etc. It's just a matter of whether it comes from your left pocket (taxes) or your right pocket (premiums). Give it a couple years and it will be all about high premiums and here comes the public option. Nothing in this bill is about reducing health care costs, which is what is needed NOW. BTW I've never watched Beck, Limbaugh or any of the guys on the extreme right.

I'm thinking this is Obama and friends strategy. Don't do anything to cut costs, make sure premiums go up and they make a case to get what they really want.

so you don't like a public option? up until now the insurance companies could charge what they wanted, cover what they wanted, deny as they pleased, and pretty much stick it to the consumer. any person who waits until they are sick to buy insurance is a fool. any person that thinks they don't need it because they are healthy is a fool. one can buy a policy that is in place with a high deductible and low monthly premium to cover the big "what ifs?"

To be honest, I have mixed feelings about some semblance of a public option. I do agree all children should be covered, which most are under current state plans. I don't agree with allowing every deadbeat out there to scam the system. I have a lot of issues regarding what happens to the quality of health care in this country under a gov't plan, I seriously don't believe the gov't can run a health care plan effectively. I've had some very good jobs within the federal gov't and have friends who have worked as consultants for different agencies and the government can't run anything on a large scale without screwing it up due to politics, waste and incompetency. I do think it is about control with this administration.

The big issue is how do we pay for this? We can't pay for the current state programs for children. I would much rather see steps taken to eliminate waste in our current system, drive down costs and that includes tort reform and make more creative options available. I do have a brother with cancer which is in remission, he recently lost his insurance through his company(they dropped employee coverage) and it was tough for him to find insurance. It was tough with a pre-existing condition, but he got insurance. Sure it was more expensive, but so is his care. He is high-risk. So are there good things in this bill for some people? Sure, but what is the cost?

I don't believe the CBO numbers, they are definitely pie in the sky type projections and are not realistic. Somebody can correct me here, but wasn't the student loan bit included in this legislation to improve the CBO numbers for the bill.

I would rather see health care costs reduced and our economy recover. I'm sounding like a broken record here, but it is all about jobs. If people are employed, health care is less of an issue. Some companies will not be expanding due to the increased costs to companies for health care. Small business are limited to 50 employees before their costs go up again. If you ask most Americans who want to be productive today, they would much rather have a job now. Jobs are the only thing that will make this economy recover and more people will have then have quality health care.

I think it's wishful thinking on my part right now that this economy will improve anytime soon and unemployment reduced. I am usually a bit of an optimist, but it's really tough right now.

You make a good point about Jobs.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Another jobs bill could be headed for the Senate today if the House passes it as expected. This one could mean billions of dollars in new construction projects for local governments. It's the latest in a series of election-year jobs bills Democrats are pushing in Congress as unemployment hovers near 10 percent.

Health Care and Jobs go hand in hand. I see your point RnR and you're obviously a smart guy, but I can make the argument that what good is a job if you are too sick to work? I know, you need a job to get health care..Trust me, I know. The GOP should have no problem with a Jobs Bill, being that this is an election year and BOTH parties want to be part of this bill. The political problem for the GOP is Obama is on the clock..if he signs it, and the economy continues to improve, Obama and the Dems will receive most of the credit, being that Obama(I love the nickname pubbies gave him recently- Obie..as in Obie "Won" Konobie), is the face of the Democratic Party. If Obie stays on his latest roll, it's goodnight now to all the GOP and the obnoxious racist Tea Party fucks.

[StevePerryHair]

Ready for round two , buddy ?!

I'm going to go Lorena Bobbit on both of you

[lights1961]

Ready for round two , buddy ?!

I was 10 feet from Mira when she was filming Smitty this past summer in DM... she is a cutie...

[RocknRoll]

You make a good point about Jobs.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Another jobs bill could be headed for the Senate today if the House passes it as expected. This one could mean billions of dollars in new construction projects for local governments. It's the latest in a series of election-year jobs bills Democrats are pushing in Congress as unemployment hovers near 10 percent.

Health Care and Jobs go hand in hand. I see your point RnR and you're obviously a smart guy, but I can make the argument that what good is a job if you are too sick to work? I know, you need a job to get health care..Trust me, I know. The GOP should have no problem with a Jobs Bill, being that this is an election year and BOTH parties want to be part of this bill. The political problem for the GOP is Obama is on the clock..if he signs it, and the economy continues to improve, Obama and the Dems will receive most of the credit, being that Obama(I love the nickname pubbies gave him recently- Obie..as in Obie "Won" Konobie), is the face of the Democratic Party. If Obie stays on his latest roll, it's goodnight now to all the GOP and the obnoxious racist Tea Party fucks.

It's private sector jobs which will have the biggest impact on the economy, not taxpayer financed. BUT, we have to start somewhere. As taxpayers, we just take it in the shorts again.

[conversationpc]

You piss me off Dave, but I never said you were a liar. Actually, you are a pretty stand up guy, and I apologize for getting in your face last night, but at least I know where to draw the line, unlike another person here.

And I intend to continue pissing you off.

[Michigan Girl]

Ready for round two , buddy ?!

I'm going to go Lorena Bobbit on both of you

I am LMAO!! This is adorable!!

[Rockindeano]

Chivalry isn't dead.

No, it's only been severely wounded, bound & gagged, and stuffed in the trunk.

No kidding.

WTF are YOU doing here? You agree with whom? I see you eye roll at this guy, agree with that guy, ask this question here, that question there...you are confused.

I just made my point to Lights1961, a pretty solid, locked case. There were no holes in it. If I can convince Rickster, certainly I could convince you, but you know what? I don't have to convince anyone any more. It is the law of the land. Learn to live it is what I should say now. There is no way it's getting overturned, or repealed, LOL. If they really campaign on this, then Michael Steele will be unemployed next year, and the GOP will be a third party, with absolutely no relevance, behind the Democratic Party and the Tea Baggers.

I can't wait until November...

Neither can I. You guys aren't going to get nearly what you are hoping for. Just wait and see.

[parfait]

what if he brings that harpoon he keeps talking about

Woah woah. I wouldn't harpoon you outside like that (unless you're into that kind of thing).

Chivalry isn't dead.

P, Harpoons? You have this site confused with another. To visit Journeyforums, go 3,000 miles west on Internet Way, and once you arrive there, your wishes will come true. There are more fat blubber gems of "hogs" errr, women there that if that's your fetish, you know, cow tipping, that sort of thing, then you will have struck gold. There are no real fatties here, except two, and I won't mention them here, because if I did name her, she would lop off my member and throw it off a cliff. The woman here who would do that is justifiably fucking nuts.

Dude, read my post again. I didn't mean it like that.

Funny stuff, though

[Rockindeano]

You make a good point about Jobs.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Another jobs bill could be headed for the Senate today if the House passes it as expected. This one could mean billions of dollars in new construction projects for local governments. It's the latest in a series of election-year jobs bills Democrats are pushing in Congress as unemployment hovers near 10 percent.

Health Care and Jobs go hand in hand. I see your point RnR and you're obviously a smart guy, but I can make the argument that what good is a job if you are too sick to work? I know, you need a job to get health care..Trust me, I know. The GOP should have no problem with a Jobs Bill, being that this is an election year and BOTH parties want to be part of this bill. The political problem for the GOP is Obama is on the clock..if he signs it, and the economy continues to improve, Obama and the Dems will receive most of the credit, being that Obama(I love the nickname pubbies gave him recently- Obie..as in Obie "Won" Konobie), is the face of the Democratic Party. If Obie stays on his latest roll, it's goodnight now to all the GOP and the obnoxious racist Tea Party fucks.

It's private sector jobs which will have the biggest impact on the economy, not taxpayer financed. BUT, we have to start somewhere. As taxpayers, we just take it in the shorts again.

No no and no.

These aren't government jobs RnR. It is federal money, thrown around to create jobs, most likely infrastructure and the like. As taxpayers, we took it in the shorts for banks and auto companies. The stimulus is an investment. We are getting our bang for the buck with that, despite what Hannity will have you believe. God, I want to ball up my fist and jam it up his fuckin nostrils.

[RocknRoll]

You make a good point about Jobs.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Another jobs bill could be headed for the Senate today if the House passes it as expected. This one could mean billions of dollars in new construction projects for local governments. It's the latest in a series of election-year jobs bills Democrats are pushing in Congress as unemployment hovers near 10 percent.

Health Care and Jobs go hand in hand. I see your point RnR and you're obviously a smart guy, but I can make the argument that what good is a job if you are too sick to work? I know, you need a job to get health care..Trust me, I know. The GOP should have no problem with a Jobs Bill, being that this is an election year and BOTH parties want to be part of this bill. The political problem for the GOP is Obama is on the clock..if he signs it, and the economy continues to improve, Obama and the Dems will receive most of the credit, being that Obama(I love the nickname pubbies gave him recently- Obie..as in Obie "Won" Konobie), is the face of the Democratic Party. If Obie stays on his latest roll, it's goodnight now to all the GOP and the obnoxious racist Tea Party fucks.

It's private sector jobs which will have the biggest impact on the economy, not taxpayer financed. BUT, we have to start somewhere. As taxpayers, we just take it in the shorts again.

No no and no.

These aren't government jobs RnR. It is federal money, thrown around to create jobs, most likely infrastructure and the like. As taxpayers, we took it in the shorts for banks and auto companies. The stimulus is an investment. We are getting our bang for the buck with that, despite what Hannity will have you believe. God, I want to ball up my fist and jam it up his fuckin nostrils.

YES YES AND YES

These are jobs for state government construction paid for by the federal taxpayer. I doubt any red states get any money. Some people have to realize that federal money is OUR tax dollars. We will pay for this many times over as the government continues to borrow money to finance these projects. We will pay big time, although right now any job is better than no jobs.

I have never heard nor watched Hannity. I can make up my own mind.

[lights1961]

You make a good point about Jobs.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Another jobs bill could be headed for the Senate today if the House passes it as expected. This one could mean billions of dollars in new construction projects for local governments. It's the latest in a series of election-year jobs bills Democrats are pushing in Congress as unemployment hovers near 10 percent.

Health Care and Jobs go hand in hand. I see your point RnR and you're obviously a smart guy, but I can make the argument that what good is a job if you are too sick to work? I know, you need a job to get health care..Trust me, I know. The GOP should have no problem with a Jobs Bill, being that this is an election year and BOTH parties want to be part of this bill. The political problem for the GOP is Obama is on the clock..if he signs it, and the economy continues to improve, Obama and the Dems will receive most of the credit, being that Obama(I love the nickname pubbies gave him recently- Obie..as in Obie "Won" Konobie), is the face of the Democratic Party. If Obie stays on his latest roll, it's goodnight now to all the GOP and the obnoxious racist Tea Party fucks.

It's private sector jobs which will have the biggest impact on the economy, not taxpayer financed. BUT, we have to start somewhere. As taxpayers, we just take it in the shorts again.

No no and no.

These aren't government jobs RnR. It is federal money, thrown around to create jobs, most likely infrastructure and the like. As taxpayers, we took it in the shorts for banks and auto companies. The stimulus is an investment. We are getting our bang for the buck with that, despite what Hannity will have you believe. God, I want to ball up my fist and jam it up his fuckin nostrils.

YES YES AND YES

These are jobs for state government construction paid for by the federal taxpayer. I doubt any red states get any money. Some people have to realize that federal money is OUR tax dollars. We will pay for this many times over as the government continues to borrow money to finance these projects. We will pay big time, although right now any job is better than no jobs.

I have never heard nor watched Hannity. I can make up my own mind.

heard this on the news... and the reporter told it like this... **jobs aid to come to federal construction workers on federal projects**
the money will create jobs... but not LONG TERM jobs... just short term jobs... until the funds run out...

[RedWingFan]

It is federal money, thrown around to create jobs, most likely infrastructure and the like. The stimulus is an investment. We are getting our bang for the buck with that

Dude, you are either drinking the kool-aid by the bucket full or your a complete idiot. And I don't believe it's the latter. The "stimulus" was a complete joke and a waste and further crippled us. Obama's "jobs saved or created" makes "fuzzy math" look like the Pythagorean Theorem. The stimulus was nothing but a slushfund created for the government to blow on whatever they deemed necessary, like buying votes to slap these new shackles on us. If the skyrocketing Unemployment numbers and the administrations admission that it's going to stay there doesn't convince you then you're hopeless. Obama wants this country hobbled for whatever his sick reasons (I don't know, I didn't attend his church)

[Lula]

several teachers jobs at my school were saved because of stimulus money, so the saved part is true

[Rockindeano]

It is federal money, thrown around to create jobs, most likely infrastructure and the like. The stimulus is an investment. We are getting our bang for the buck with that

Dude, you are either drinking the kool-aid by the bucket full or your a complete idiot. And I don't believe it's the latter. The "stimulus" was a complete joke and a waste and further crippled us. Obama's "jobs saved or created" makes "fuzzy math" look like the Pythagorean Theorem. The stimulus was nothing but a slushfund created for the government to blow on whatever they deemed necessary, like buying votes to slap these new shackles on us. If the skyrocketing Unemployment numbers and the administrations admission that it's going to stay there doesn't convince you then you're hopeless. Obama wants this country hobbled for whatever his sick reasons (I don't know, I didn't attend his church)

You're simply wrong. The stimulus has worked but remember, the majority still has yet to be revealed. Turn off Rush and see how the light comes into your eyes. Man, you aren't an idiot either, by no means, but you need to escape the evil empire known as Rush Limbaugh.

[conversationpc]

I fucking hate having to work all day and miss this shit!

Come work at my office. I am the IT guy and therefore control the network and internet connection.

[Rockindeano]

Chivalry isn't dead.

No, it's only been severely wounded, bound & gagged, and stuffed in the trunk.

No kidding.

WTF are YOU doing here? You agree with whom? I see you eye roll at this guy, agree with that guy, ask this question here, that question there...you are confused.

I just made my point to Lights1961, a pretty solid, locked case. There were no holes in it. If I can convince Rickster, certainly I could convince you, but you know what? I don't have to convince anyone any more. It is the law of the land. Learn to live it is what I should say now. There is no way it's getting overturned, or repealed, LOL. If they really campaign on this, then Michael Steele will be unemployed next year, and the GOP will be a third party, with absolutely no relevance, behind the Democratic Party and the Tea Baggers.

Dude. What? That was an off topic comment relating to another off topic comment, not a comment on the health care thing. For the record, I'm for it if it proves to work. But, and I admitted this previously, I don't know enough about the specifics and that why I asked a couple of questions about it at other points in this topic.

You know Kim, I thought I had sent you a PM about this. I was talking to someone else about a different topic. This wasn't meant to say this to you. Please accept my apology. I feel like a republican, err, I mean a dumbshit.

[Rockindeano]

I fucking hate having to work all day and miss this shit!

Dean, fuck..there ain't enough time tonite to rebuke all the shit you've spewed in the last 4 pages. I'll try and catch up.


How in the world can ANYONE say there isn't Gov Intervention now into healthcare? How? The Gov has just basically MANDATED how a formerly private industry must now operate. That my friends is Gov Intervention. Good grief!

Sorry, you of course took what I said to Rick way out of context, but I'll play along. The Gov't is doing one thing here. they are regulating the insurance companies for US. They are preventing US from being bent over and assraped by Blue Cross, Blue Shield, whomever. The Gov't for once, in 50+ years, is helping the American citizen out.I know you hate the Gov't with all your might, but you will be happy with this FF. You know this is a good bill that does good things for the population.

So, rather than sit here, and defend what was rightfully passed, I can say to you, it's the law. Deal with it buddy. And no, you and your buddies can't repeal it. You just better hope the economy doesn't keep improving and the Dems lose at least one chamber, lol. Obama is on a roll...I can see the Public option being added sometime in the next ten years. The public option is the best thing we could have hoped for. It's coming someday.

[bluejeangirl76]

Chivalry isn't dead.

No, it's only been severely wounded, bound & gagged, and stuffed in the trunk.

No kidding.

WTF are YOU doing here? You agree with whom? I see you eye roll at this guy, agree with that guy, ask this question here, that question there...you are confused.

I just made my point to Lights1961, a pretty solid, locked case. There were no holes in it. If I can convince Rickster, certainly I could convince you, but you know what? I don't have to convince anyone any more. It is the law of the land. Learn to live it is what I should say now. There is no way it's getting overturned, or repealed, LOL. If they really campaign on this, then Michael Steele will be unemployed next year, and the GOP will be a third party, with absolutely no relevance, behind the Democratic Party and the Tea Baggers.

Dude. What? That was an off topic comment relating to another off topic comment, not a comment on the health care thing. For the record, I'm for it if it proves to work. But, and I admitted this previously, I don't know enough about the specifics and that why I asked a couple of questions about it at other points in this topic.

You know Kim, I thought I had sent you a PM about this. I was talking to someone else about a different topic. This wasn't meant to say this to you. Please accept my apology. I feel like a republican, err, I mean a dumbshit.

LMAO!! Accepted sir. You'll have that with fast moving topics. I did the same thing a week or two ago.

[Rockindeano]

Dean, fuck..there ain't enough time tonite to rebuke all the shit you've spewed in the last 4 pages. I'll try and catch up.

I presented to Lights1961, perfect, fact induced checklist of what this bill entails. If you read what I wrote today, and you say I wasn't 100% truthful, then you are full of shit. Look, showing your angst toward the Gov't is one thing..That's fine. Argue about why you hate the law, argue about why you're against it, but don't come in here and say to everyone I got it wrong. That's bull FF. It's not too difficult to understand, the meat and potatoes of it anyway. Lights1961 (Rick) is scared from this, and I bet my dogs balls, you fuckers fed him some Palinmania..some blatant lies, like death panels and shit like that. Just be honest, that's all I ask, and in turn, I won't come in here with a shitload of spi.

[Rockindeano]

Chivalry isn't dead.

No, it's only been severely wounded, bound & gagged, and stuffed in the trunk.

No kidding.

WTF are YOU doing here? You agree with whom? I see you eye roll at this guy, agree with that guy, ask this question here, that question there...you are confused.

I just made my point to Lights1961, a pretty solid, locked case. There were no holes in it. If I can convince Rickster, certainly I could convince you, but you know what? I don't have to convince anyone any more. It is the law of the land. Learn to live it is what I should say now. There is no way it's getting overturned, or repealed, LOL. If they really campaign on this, then Michael Steele will be unemployed next year, and the GOP will be a third party, with absolutely no relevance, behind the Democratic Party and the Tea Baggers.

Dude. What? That was an off topic comment relating to another off topic comment, not a comment on the health care thing. For the record, I'm for it if it proves to work. But, and I admitted this previously, I don't know enough about the specifics and that why I asked a couple of questions about it at other points in this topic.

You know Kim, I thought I had sent you a PM about this. I was talking to someone else about a different topic. This wasn't meant to say this to you. Please accept my apology. I feel like a republican, err, I mean a dumbshit.

LMAO!! Accepted sir. You'll have that with fast moving topics. I did the same thing a week or two ago.

Thanks me lady. You try taking on the GOP troops, all at once! They keep coming in droves, and Dan sat this one out today too! Fuckers wore me out, and I was trying to make a perverted birthday online card for Smelly which took me 2 days and crashed my heap of shit machine; it was having none of it today. So Smelly, if you receive a perverted e-card from "Super Stud," know it's done out of loyal love.

[Rockindeano]

I fucking hate having to work all day and miss this shit!

Come work at my office. I am the IT guy and therefore control the network and internet connection.

My office is home, today just didn't lend itself to playing. That's probably a good thing.

You have a foul mouth, like the rest of us boys here FF, and BJG has a fowl mouth as well, so this begs the question. When you work at home, FF, do you often derail, and start surfing porn dude? I have to know this .

[bluejeangirl76]

I fucking hate having to work all day and miss this shit!

Come work at my office. I am the IT guy and therefore control the network and internet connection.

My office is home, today just didn't lend itself to playing. That's probably a good thing.

You have a foul mouth, like the rest of us boys here FF, and BJG has a fowl mouth as well, so this begs the question. When you work at home, FF, you often drail and start surfing porn dude? I have to know this dude.

baa-GAWWWK!

[Ftloperry]

We're going to hell in a hand basket and fast. This health care plan will be the death of us.

Ok Nostradamus. Just like what was said about Social Security too. That turned out to be a pretty solid program now hasn't it?

I would like to know, without being mean spirited, your number one reason for thinking the way do about this law. Please explain your statement. I am not being or trying to be an ass, which I obviously am, but I am being serious. Thanks FTLOP.

Deano I respect your thoughts here. States can not afford the new law. It will put more people on the Medicaid roll and cost states millions. Health care premiums will rise and taxes will be higher. This bill violates the Constitution's 10th Amendment. The Federal Government has no authority beyond the powers granted to it under the constitution by forcing states to carry out it's mission.

No public policy goal can be allowed to trample the protections and rights guaranteed under our Constitution; no matter how important or well intended. I can not afford health care of any kind and the Government has no right to force me to get health care. If I do not get health care then I will be fined $350 for the first year....$750 for the second year and I could face jail time if I still do not get health care. This is socialism at it's best. If Obama, Biden and Pelosi want to install this kind of socialism then they should go and start their own country someplace else and take all their followers with them and leave the rest of us alone.

This is the first time in American history where American citizens will be forced to buy a particular good or service. That is not right.

[Rockindeano]

We're going to hell in a hand basket and fast. This health care plan will be the death of us.

Ok Nostradamus. Just like what was said about Social Security too. That turned out to be a pretty solid program now hasn't it?

I would like to know, without being mean spirited, your number one reason for thinking the way do about this law. Please explain your statement. I am not being or trying to be an ass, which I obviously am, but I am being serious. Thanks FTLOP.

Deano I respect your thoughts here. States can not afford the new law. It will put more people on the Medicaid roll and cost states millions. Health care premiums will rise and taxes will be higher. This bill violates the Constitution's 10th Amendment. The Federal Government has no authority beyond the powers granted to it under the constitution by forcing states to carry out it's mission.

States have absolutely nothing to do with this Federal reform law, however, states do have the responsibility of each state's medicaid level program. What the Congress did in voting for this law, was federal in nature. I see no such area where states are even somewhat linked to this new law.

No public policy goal can be allowed to trample the protections and rights guaranteed under our Constitution; no matter how important or well intended. I can not afford health care of any kind and the Government has no right to force me to get health care. If I do not get health care then I will be fined $350 for the first year....$750 for the second year and I could face jail time if I still do not get health care.

I will get back to you on this tomorrow.

This is socialism at it's best. If Obama, Biden and Pelosi want to install this kind of socialism then they should go and start their own country someplace else and take all their followers with them and leave the rest of us alone.

Who did you hear this from, Limbaugh, Hannity or Beck? I am guessing Hannity came up with this doozy. There is nothing socialist about providing health care for its' citizens. In fact it's quite responsible to in fact do what the Democrats in Congress just did. You want to call it Socialism, I guess you can, if you want to be laughed at by level headed people, however, Obie is blazing a trail, one of which is a proud one of brotherhood and compassion. This vote was absolutely the right thing to do, and sitting on the sidelines, smugly voting no at every turn, denouncing this bill as a joke, offering no ideas whatsoever, is A) cowardly and B) selfish. I hope that the republicans can look in the mirror at themselves and find some sort of humanity. I wouldn't bet on it. I'll take an American like Obama and Biden and Pelosi, rather than the likes of Boehner, Cantor or Michelle Bachman. You want to call my side socialists? Well your side is plain fucking selfish.

This is the first time in American history where American citizens will be forced to buy a particular good or service. That is not right.

You word it nicely but I would say it's even less of an right, or perhaps an humanly act, if you will, to deny fellow American citizens, brothers and sisters access to what is or should be a right for all, not just some. This was the absolute right thing to do, and Obama should be congratulated on leading this through the Congress. Last time I checked, these were the United States of America, where every citizen is created equal, not a divided nation where only the strong survive.

FTLOPerry, I also respect your thoughts as well, and hope I did not come across as mean spirited here, but it is a passionate issue. I guess we just think differently, that's all and that's ok too.

[RocknRoll]

Who did you hear this from, Limbaugh, Hannity or Beck? I am guessing Hannity came up with this doozy. There is nothing socialist about providing health care for its' citizens. In fact it's quite responsible to in fact do what the Democrats in Congress just did. You want to call it Socialism, I guess you can, if you want to be laughed at by level headed people, however, Obie is blazing a trail, one of which is a proud one of brotherhood and compassion. This vote was absolutely the right thing to do, and sitting on the sidelines, smugly voting no at every turn, denouncing this bill as a joke, offering no ideas whatsoever, is A) cowardly and B) selfish. I hope that the republicans can look in the mirror at themselves and find some sort of humanity. I wouldn't bet on it. I'll take an American like Obama and Biden and Pelosi, rather than the likes of Boehner, Cantor or Michelle Bachman. You want to call my side socialists? Well your side is plain fucking selfish.

Deano - The reason the Republicans continued to vote no is the fact the Obama/Pelosi/Reid group refused to listen or consider their proposals. This all goes back to the "Won" and their attitude that they could do what they wanted and screw everyone else. This is a bad bill!! Nobody argues we don't need Health Care reform. It's how do we do it right to protect the American people and our future? Obama and crew couldn't wait for that. I seriously don't understand the rush to pass a bad bill.

Remember - I do not watch FOX.

[stevew2]

We're going to hell in a hand basket and fast. This health care plan will be the death of us.

Ok Nostradamus. Just like what was said about Social Security too. That turned out to be a pretty solid program now hasn't it?

I would like to know, without being mean spirited, your number one reason for thinking the way do about this law. Please explain your statement. I am not being or trying to be an ass, which I obviously am, but I am being serious. Thanks FTLOP.

Deano I respect your thoughts here. States can not afford the new law. It will put more people on the Medicaid roll and cost states millions. Health care premiums will rise and taxes will be higher. This bill violates the Constitution's 10th Amendment. The Federal Government has no authority beyond the powers granted to it under the constitution by forcing states to carry out it's mission.

No public policy goal can be allowed to trample the protections and rights guaranteed under our Constitution; no matter how important or well intended. I can not afford health care of any kind and the Government has no right to force me to get health care. If I do not get health care then I will be fined $350 for the first year....$750 for the second year and I could face jail time if I still do not get health care. This is socialism at it's best. If Obama, Biden and Pelosi want to install this kind of socialism then they should go and start their own country someplace else and take all their followers with them and leave the rest of us alone.

This is the first time in American history where American citizens will be forced to buy a particular good or service. That is not right.

If you go into the emergency room with an injury or sickness are you going to pay for it?I sure hope so. if not who should pay for it??Think about it. American citizens will have to pay for it, it will be 10 times more than if you went to the doctor in his office.

[Blueskies]

We're going to hell in a hand basket and fast. This health care plan will be the death of us.

Ok Nostradamus. Just like what was said about Social Security too. That turned out to be a pretty solid program now hasn't it?

I would like to know, without being mean spirited, your number one reason for thinking the way do about this law. Please explain your statement. I am not being or trying to be an ass, which I obviously am, but I am being serious. Thanks FTLOP.

Deano I respect your thoughts here. States can not afford the new law. It will put more people on the Medicaid roll and cost states millions. Health care premiums will rise and taxes will be higher. This bill violates the Constitution's 10th Amendment. The Federal Government has no authority beyond the powers granted to it under the constitution by forcing states to carry out it's mission.

No public policy goal can be allowed to trample the protections and rights guaranteed under our Constitution; no matter how important or well intended. I can not afford health care of any kind and the Government has no right to force me to get health care. If I do not get health care then I will be fined $350 for the first year....$750 for the second year and I could face jail time if I still do not get health care. This is socialism at it's best. If Obama, Biden and Pelosi want to install this kind of socialism then they should go and start their own country someplace else and take all their followers with them and leave the rest of us alone.

This is the first time in American history where American citizens will be forced to buy a particular good or service. That is not right.

Dean already addressed the constitutionality issue in this thread well enough so I'll move on to your next point.

Bottom line is that one way or another we each have to pay for our health care...
.. either now as it's been with ever increasing health care insurance premiums where we can be dropped at any time at the whim of the insurance companies ( or denied coverage altogether)
..and in your case since you don't have coverage you will have a mountain of debt if you get sick and when you don't pay it the cost is passed on to the rest of us.
Or if a universal government run health care system is adopted as in other countries we will pay for it with taxation.
Or with this bill we will pay for it with insurance but for those that don't have it already then they and small business will have the opportunity to buy into pools like larger business employees are able to do now so that the cost to the small business and self employed is more affordable then it now is.
Or you will not get insurance and pay the fine instead and if you get sick you'll pay and pay and pay.

People freaked out over the idea of a government run system paid for by higher taxes so this is what we have. By taxes, by insurance coverage , by ignoring your responsibility for yourself and paying a fine instead and if you get sick and can't pay then passing your cost on to the rest of us with higher premiums and higher cost for procedures...we all pay. You speak to being forced to pay so what is it you want? Free health care? Someone has to pay for your care and republicans like to preach personal responsibility so I don't see why they would have an issue with it now.

Again, this law has been enacted in an attempt to make health care insurance more available and affordable for all. As I said previously this is not really health care reform but is insurance reform.

As for your last sentence...ummm....this is not the first time American citizens have been " forced to buy a particular good or service". We have had to pay Federal income tax for a long time which pays for goods and services, for one example paying for a military to protect us. We also are required to pay for infrastructure such as that freeway you travel on when you take a vacation, for instance.....how about that block grant that your local police department got from the federal government to get a new patrol car so that they can patrol your neighborhood to help protect you at night when youre asleep in your bed and by getting that federal grant your town didn't have to come up with the money for it by raising local taxes. I could go on and on with further examples.

Also, I think you are forgetting that it is mandatory to carry at least liability car insurance to be able to drive in this country. If you should be held liable for your car then why not for your own health? If you can afford to and want to drive you pay for it.....if you want to have health care when your sick you'll pay for it...one way or another.

[Blueskies]

Who did you hear this from, Limbaugh, Hannity or Beck? I am guessing Hannity came up with this doozy. There is nothing socialist about providing health care for its' citizens. In fact it's quite responsible to in fact do what the Democrats in Congress just did. You want to call it Socialism, I guess you can, if you want to be laughed at by level headed people, however, Obie is blazing a trail, one of which is a proud one of brotherhood and compassion. This vote was absolutely the right thing to do, and sitting on the sidelines, smugly voting no at every turn, denouncing this bill as a joke, offering no ideas whatsoever, is A) cowardly and B) selfish. I hope that the republicans can look in the mirror at themselves and find some sort of humanity. I wouldn't bet on it. I'll take an American like Obama and Biden and Pelosi, rather than the likes of Boehner, Cantor or Michelle Bachman. You want to call my side socialists? Well your side is plain fucking selfish.

Deano - The reason the Republicans continued to vote no is the fact the Obama/Pelosi/Reid group refused to listen or consider their proposals. This all goes back to the "Won" and their attitude that they could do what they wanted and screw everyone else. This is a bad bill!! Nobody argues we don't need Health Care reform. It's how do we do it right to protect the American people and our future? Obama and crew couldn't wait for that. I seriously don't understand the rush to pass a bad bill.

Remember - I do not watch FOX.

1.) The reasons why Republicans continued to vote no is that they want things their way or no way and they don't want to give an inch to the other side and let them be credited. They have no interest in working together in the peoples best interest but are out for their own, in my opinion, by not budging even when they agree with ideas just because the ideas aren't their own.
2.) Where is the Republicans version of a good bill if they don't like this one? I've yet to read one.
3.) Partisan politics is why many things don't get accomplished "for the good of the people" and is why a bill couldn't be better then it is. The day when people stop fighting each other and work together on solutions with only the desire to do whats best for everyone instead of only whats best for themselves and a few, is when there will be more perfect solutions for all.

[Tomulator]

Chivalry isn't dead.

No, it's only been severely wounded, bound & gagged, and stuffed in the trunk.

No kidding.

WTF are YOU doing here? You agree with whom? I see you eye roll at this guy, agree with that guy, ask this question here, that question there...you are confused.

I just made my point to Lights1961, a pretty solid, locked case. There were no holes in it. If I can convince Rickster, certainly I could convince you, but you know what? I don't have to convince anyone any more. It is the law of the land. Learn to live it is what I should say now. There is no way it's getting overturned, or repealed, LOL. If they really campaign on this, then Michael Steele will be unemployed next year, and the GOP will be a third party, with absolutely no relevance, behind the Democratic Party and the Tea Baggers.

I can't wait until November...

Neither can I. You guys aren't going to get nearly what you are hoping for. Just wait and see.

Read the polls, watch the mood of the nation...you crazy-ass Libs are going DOWN!

[conversationpc]

Neither can I. You guys aren't going to get nearly what you are hoping for. Just wait and see.

Read the polls, watch the mood of the nation...you crazy-ass Libs are going DOWN!

I wouldn't be so sure just yet. There's too much time for crap to happen and the libs to pull their usual dirty tricks. I certainly hope they lose control of Congress but I'm not going to bank on it.