Did Carlos Santana Take the Credit For Neal's Work?

[SherriBerry]

I don't have a position on this - I'm just throwing the question out to those of you who can answer it. I know Neal didn't get credit on at least one album he played on and Carlos Santana fought to keep him from being inducted into the RHOF with Santana despite the years Neal played with the band and the work he contributed. How much of Carlos Santana's reputation from the sound on the earlier albums is owed to Neal?

[CatEyes]

I don't have a position on this - I'm just throwing the question out to those of you who can answer it. I know Neal didn't get credit on at least one album he played on and Carlos Santana fought to keep him from being inducted into the RHOF with Santana despite the years Neal played with the band and the work he contributed. How much of Carlos Santana's reputation from the sound on the earlier albums is owed to Neal?

Neal started with the band in summer, 1971 and left in 1972 with Gregg Rolie

Cat

[SherriBerry]

I don't have a position on this - I'm just throwing the question out to those of you who can answer it. I know Neal didn't get credit on at least one album he played on and Carlos Santana fought to keep him from being inducted into the RHOF with Santana despite the years Neal played with the band and the work he contributed. How much of Carlos Santana's reputation from the sound on the earlier albums is owed to Neal?

Neal started with the band in summer, 1971 and left in 1972 with Gregg Rolie

Cat

Neal was born in 1954 and all of the history, including his own statements, says that he was asked to join Santana when he was 15, which would be 1969. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy, unless he wasn't an "official" band member until 1971.

[maverick218]

I don't have a position on this - I'm just throwing the question out to those of you who can answer it. I know Neal didn't get credit on at least one album he played on and Carlos Santana fought to keep him from being inducted into the RHOF with Santana despite the years Neal played with the band and the work he contributed. How much of Carlos Santana's reputation from the sound on the earlier albums is owed to Neal?

Neal started with the band in summer, 1971 and left in 1972 with Gregg Rolie

Cat

Neal was born in 1954 and all of the history, including his own statements, says that he was asked to join Santana when he was 15, which would be 1969. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy, unless he wasn't an "official" band member until 1971.

From Santana's website discography, Neal played on Santana 3 which was released on 1/10/1971, and Caravanserai, released 1/1/1972. The follow up to Caravanserai, Welcome, was released 1/11/1973. So Neal would have at least joined sometime in 1970, and left sometime in 1972 (I would assume after the Caravanserai tour); that would put him in the band for roughly 2 years. We may never really know for sure, I understand that Neal doesn't like to talk about the Santana years. I'm biased, but I think that he should have been inducted with the rest of the original Santana band.

[Don]

I don't think Neal has anything to complain about. There are other members who contributed a lot more than Schon and they didn't get inducted either. Off the top of my head, I know Alex Ligertwood sang lead on quite a few of their hits.



Here are the guys inducted.
Carlos Santana,
Jose Chepito Areas,
David Brown,
Mike Carabello,
Gregg Rolie a
Michael Shrieve

Here are other members from over the years

Vocals
Leon Thomas: 1973
Leon Patillo: 1973-1975
Evan Thur: 1974-75
Greg Walker: 1975-76, 1976-79, 1983-85
Luther Rabb: 1976
Joel Badie: 1976
Alex Ligertwood: 1979-83, 1984-85, 1987, 1989-91, 1992-94
Buddy Miles: 1986, 1987
Tony Lindsay: 1991, 1995 - present
Vorriece Cooper: 1993
Curtis Salgado: 1995
Ifrab Musflyleng: 1995
Victor Lasic: 2010-Present

Keyboards
Gregg Rolie: 1966-72
Tom Coster: 1972-78, 83, 86
Richard Kermode: 1972-73
Leon Patillo: 1973-1979
Chris Rhyne: 1978-79
Alan Pasqua: 1979-8 Richard Baker: 1980-82
David Sancious: 1984
Sterling Crew: 1986
Lawrence Rogers: 1994-1998
Freddie Ravel: present


Guitar
Tom Frazier: 1967-70
Neal Schon: 1971-72
John McLaughlin: 1973
Doug Rodrigues: 1972-1973
Chris Solberg: 1978-80
Alex Ligertwood: 1979-83, 1984-85, 1987, 1989-91, 1992-94
Jorge Santana: 1993 - 1996
Alec Evans: 1997 - 1999
Tommy Anthony: 2005 - present

Bass
Gus Rodriguez: 1970-71
David Brown: 1967-71, 1974-76
Tom Rutley: 1971-72
Doug Rauch: 1972-73
Byron Miller: 1976
Pablo Telez: 1976-77
David Margen: 1977-82
Keith Jones: 1983-84, 1989
Alphonso Johnson: 1985-89, 1992
Benny Rietveld: 1990-92, 1997-
Myron Dove: 1992-1996
Chris DiNoia: 1997-1999
Chris Schwegler: 2006 - present

Drums
Rod Harper: 1966-67
Bob Livingston: 1967-69
Michael Shrieve: 1969-74, 1988
Buddy Miles: 1972
Leon 'Ndugu' Chancler: 1974-76, 1988
Gaylord Birch: 1976, 1991
Graham Lear: 1976-84
Chester C. Thompson: 1984
Oscar Cozens: 1985-87
Walfredo Reyes: 1989-91, 1992-93
Billy Johnson: 1991, 1994, 2000-2001
Rodney Holmes: 1993-94, 1997-2000
Tommie Bradford: 1994
Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez: 1997
Ricky Wellman: 1997
Dennis Chambers: 2004 - present

Percussion
Mike Carabello (Congas): 1966-67, 1969-71
Marcus Malone (Congas): 1967-69
José "Chepito" Areas (Timbales): 1969-77, 1988-89
Rico Reyes (Timbales): 1971, 1972
Victor Pantoja (Timbales): 1971
Coke Escovedo (Timbales): 1971-72
Pete Escovedo (Timbales): 1971, 1977-79
James "Mingo" Lewis (Congas): 1972-1972
Armando Peraza (Congas, Bongos): 1972-1975, 1977-90
Raul Rekow (Congas, Percussion): 1976 - present
Francisco Aguabella (Congas): 1969 - 1971
Orestes Vilató (Timbales): 1980-87
Karl Perazzo (Timbales): 1991 - present

Other Instruments
Jules Broussard: Saxophone 1974-75
Miles Davis: Trumpet 1976
Alex Jackaman: Trumpet 1993
Oran Coltrane: Saxophone-1992
Russell Tubbs: Flute - 1978

[steveo777]

I wonder what the relationship between Neal and Carlos is like these days?

[Don]

I wonder what the relationship between Neal and Carlos is like these days?

From everything I have read, they seem to be fine with each other.

[Michigan Girl]

They (the band) should be able to pick and choose who is to be inducted for their own band!!

[Since 78]

They (the band) should be able to pick and choose who is to be inducted for their own band!!

So... you're saying Journey could choose to have Augeri or Arnel and not Perry? Just askin.

[Michigan Girl]

They (the band) should be able to pick and choose who is to be inducted for their own band!!

So... you're saying Journey could choose to have Augeri or Arnel and not Perry? Just askin.

Absolutely, but I don't think they're that foolish ...do you?!?!

[Since 78]

They (the band) should be able to pick and choose who is to be inducted for their own band!!

So... you're saying Journey could choose to have Augeri or Arnel and not Perry? Just askin.

Absolutely, but I don't think they're that foolish ...do you?!?!

Oh, absolutely not, Neal's to good of a guy.

[Michigan Girl]

They (the band) should be able to pick and choose who is to be inducted for their own band!!

So... you're saying Journey could choose to have Augeri or Arnel and not Perry? Just askin.

Absolutely, but I don't think they're that foolish ...do you?!?!

Oh, absolutely not, Neal's to good of a guy.

I totally agree, he loves SP ...any harsh words are said out of hurt!!
I'm sure his curls should be mentioned here too!!

[Since 78]

They (the band) should be able to pick and choose who is to be inducted for their own band!!

So... you're saying Journey could choose to have Augeri or Arnel and not Perry? Just askin.

Absolutely, but I don't think they're that foolish ...do you?!?!

Oh, absolutely not, Neal's to good of a guy.

I totally agree, he loves SP ...any harsh words are said out of hurt!!
I'm sure his curls should be mentioned here too!!

I Know, Sad huh!

[lights1961]

maybe as a minor Neal could not get credit for anything at that time???

[SherriBerry]

maybe as a minor Neal could not get credit for anything at that time???

I don't think being a minor would affect getting credit for work and in '71 he was only 17, but based on the list of band members Gunbot posted, perhaps Neal was jamming with the band, but not considered an official member until he played on an album? They had more people coming in and out than the local Cineplex.

[hoagiepete]

I'm still trying to figure out what parts Neal is playing versus Carlos.

[steveo777]

Here's an early vid. It seems Carlos is the prominent player and Neal is his student. Heh, he had to start somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PYIvcz42O4

[maverick218]

I'm still trying to figure out what parts Neal is playing versus Carlos.

It IS hard to tell- the videos from that era really help out. I still hear Santana's influence in Neal's playing to this day, but being biased, Neal took it to a whole other level.

[jrnyman28]

I'm still trying to figure out what parts Neal is playing versus Carlos.

On the original recordings IIRC you could tell by which ear you were hearing from.