Why do Finland's schools get the best results?

[Don]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/w ... 601207.stm

Last year more than 100 foreign delegations and governments visited Helsinki, hoping to learn the secret of their schools' success.

In 2006, Finland's pupils scored the highest average results in science and reading in the whole of the developed world. In the OECD's exams for 15 year-olds, known as PISA, they also came second in maths, beaten only by teenagers in South Korea.

This isn't a one-off: in previous PISA tests Finland also came out top.

The Finnish philosophy with education is that everyone has something to contribute and those who struggle in certain subjects should not be left behind.

A tactic used in virtually every lesson is the provision of an additional teacher who helps those who struggle in a particular subject. But the pupils are all kept in the same classroom, regardless of their ability in that particular subject.

Finland's Education Minister, Henna Virkkunen is proud of her country's record but her next goal is to target the brightest pupils.

''The Finnish system supports very much those pupils who have learning difficulties but we have to pay more attention also to those pupils who are very talented. Now we have started a pilot project about how to support those pupils who are very gifted in certain areas.''

According to the OECD, Finnish children spend the fewest number of hours in the classroom in the developed world.

This reflects another important theme of Finnish education.
Primary and secondary schooling is combined, so the pupils don't have to change schools at age 13. They avoid a potentially disruptive transition from one school to another.

Teacher Marjaana Arovaara-Heikkinen believes keeping the same pupils in her classroom for several years also makes her job a lot easier.

''I'm like growing up with my children, I see the problems they have when they are small. And now after five years, I still see and know what has happened in their youth, what are the best things they can do. I tell them I'm like their school mother.''

Children in Finland only start main school at age seven. The idea is that before then they learn best when they're playing and by the time they finally get to school they are keen to start learning.

Finnish parents obviously claim some credit for the impressive school results. There is a culture of reading with the kids at home and families have regular contact with their children's teachers.

Teaching is a prestigious career in Finland. Teachers are highly valued and teaching standards are high.

The educational system's success in Finland seems to be part cultural. Pupils study in a relaxed and informal atmosphere.

Finland also has low levels of immigration. So when pupils start school the majority have Finnish as their native language, eliminating an obstacle that other societies often face.

The system's success is built on the idea of less can be more. There is an emphasis on relaxed schools, free from political prescriptions. This combination, they believe, means that no child is left behind.

[conversationpc]

I spent a week+ in Finland a few years ago. I think one of the reasons they probably do so well is that their language is so complicated. They use tons of vowels and have lots of really long words. Heck, I'd probably be a genius, too, by the time I was school age if I grew up speaking that language.

The way they do education in Finland, and Europe in general, is the one thing I do wish we'd model here.

[Don]

I think the idea of having a second teacher to help the slower students instead of segregating them into Special Ed classes or slowing down the other students to wait for them is something we should look at.

[conversationpc]

I think the idea of having a second teacher to help the slower students instead of segregating them into Special Ed classes or slowing down the other students to wait for them is something we should look at.

I don't think that'll work. Many of the special ed kids need specialized instruction rather than being in the classes with the other kids. You can't really get that just by mainstreaming them and having another teacher or instructional assistance in there with them. One of the goals for special ed kiddos is to be able to eventually have them mainstreamed and, at that point, perhaps they would be able to have someone else helping them, if necessary.

[Jana]

I think the idea of having a second teacher to help the slower students instead of segregating them into Special Ed classes or slowing down the other students to wait for them is something we should look at.

I don't think that'll work. Many of the special ed kids need specialized instruction rather than being in the classes with the other kids. You can't really get that just by mainstreaming them and having another teacher or instructional assistance in there with them. One of the goals for special ed kiddos is to be able to eventually have them mainstreamed and, at that point, perhaps they would be able to have someone else helping them, if necessary.

special ed lumps in a wide spectrum of learning disabilities and other disabilities in a public school class. My friend was horrified when she saw her daughter, who appeared normal but had a learning disability, lumped in with so many severely emotionally handicapped children. One kid was banging his head on his desk and had major anger mangagement issues, one was drooling on his desk. Her daughter's self-esteem plummeted after being put there in the third grade and separated from her normal class and friends. The next semester she moved her to a very expensive LD school for kids like her. Her self-esteem soared all through high school and she never felt different. Most people don't have the money my friend does, though. I don't know if all public school systems do that, though, lump them all together. This was in Georgia.

She was never able to be mainstreamed b/c even though she came across intelligently and acted like a normal kid, her learning disability was pretty severe, so the private LD school was a godsend to her.

[Don]

It doesn't look like our school systems could even entertain any of these ideas anyway. The Huge student to teacher ratios is just mind boggling, especially here in California. The year round track systems and other schedules utilized to try and relieve this is a double edged sword as the expenditures needed to run these schools during the hot summer months is astronomical. 90% of the kids having to pay for public transport because of limited school buses, they end having 3 hours of their day dedicated just to commuting. The whole system is just out of sorts.
Is it any wonder people want a voucher program to get their kids into private school?

[S2M]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

Students picking their own class schedules. Some of the classes kids are forced to take are asinine.

Break away from 100% classroom model, having more hands on experience in the disciplines they are learning....field trips, HS internships, and even volunteering as part of the grade....

[7 Wishes]

A real education isn't valued in America beyond its ability to help obtain a higher-paying job. Europeans have an inherent lust for learning.

[Saint John]

Europeans have an inherent lust for learning.

Something has to take the place of bathing.

[parfait]

A real education isn't valued in America beyond its ability to help obtain a higher-paying job. Europeans have an inherent lust for learning.

That's bullshit. Though the main thing that's different between american and most european schools, is that it's a helluva lot harder to get good grades in the latter. We don't have multiple choice for example and just here in France the grading system goes from 1-20. I'd say american kids are just lazy - it's all about hard work. Having a poor teacher isn't a excuse for getting lousy grades - all the information needed is in the books already. One thing I don't get though, is the lack of ancient culture, litterature and culture. No one can possibly call themself a educated man, and not know who Sartre, Godot or Kirgegaard is.

[StevePerryHair]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

Students picking their own class schedules. Some of the classes kids are forced to take are asinine.

Break away from 100% classroom model, having more hands on experience in the disciplines they are learning....field trips, HS internships, and even volunteering as part of the grade....

my daughter was forced to take a gaming class....they learned to design a simple video game. Bet you wish they had forced you into a class like that in school

[S2M]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

Students picking their own class schedules. Some of the classes kids are forced to take are asinine.

Break away from 100% classroom model, having more hands on experience in the disciplines they are learning....field trips, HS internships, and even volunteering as part of the grade....

my daughter was forced to take a gaming class....they learned to design a simple video game. Bet you wish they had forced you into a class like that in school

If they offered that class I would be working for Activision, 2K, Sega, Ubisoft, or some other cutting edge software company.....

[Ehwmatt]

A real education isn't valued in America beyond its ability to help obtain a higher-paying job. Europeans have an inherent lust for learning.

That's bullshit. Though the main thing that's different between american and most european schools, is that it's a helluva lot harder to get good grades in the latter. We don't have multiple choice for example and just here in France the grading system goes from 1-20. I'd say american kids are just lazy - it's all about hard work. Having a poor teacher isn't a excuse for getting lousy grades - all the information needed is in the books already. One thing I don't get though, is the lack of ancient culture, litterature and culture. No one can possibly call themself a educated man, and not know who Sartre, Godot or Kirgegaard is.

Funny you talk about such ancient great literary and philosophical figures but you smelly Frenchies forget the basic history that Americans saved your pathetic smelly country a paltry 70 years ago

A lot of kids are lazy and unmotivated, that's for damn sure. They take no pride in their work. That is the true heart of the matter. Forget about learning disabilities, the way the classroom is set up, and all that nonsense.

But, as for the rest of what you said about the pedagogical style in America, you're way off base. You sound just like the "uncultured, sheltered Americans" that you wouldn't hesitate to make fun of at the drop of a dime. Any decent liberal arts college/humanities major eschew multiple choice examinations for analytical essay exams and will force you to take classes in philosophy, early brit lit, history etc, even if you're in the natural sciences. Oh, and BTW, in the rare times I had a multiple choice/quiz, it was always much tougher than an essay exam. The best and most challenging teachers (or the worst ones on account of poor question writing/answer choice phrasing) can make taking a multiple choice quiz or test very daunting indeed. It's also very tough to grade well at any decent liberal arts college.

That's also not to say that's a very good model for all people. It can be great to get a well-rounded education, for sure. I went to such a college and I don't regret it... but I also didn't pay for it (scholarships, not loans). I might feel differently if I paid full price/was going into big debt to take some of the bullshit classes I had to take.

You see, some people want to go to school to learn a practical skill or profession to make a living for as cheaply and as quickly as they possibly can. You also have to remember that our educational system is nothing like yours - it costs way more here for us to go to school. Not everybody has the time or financial resources to go through 4 years of a liberal arts college. They want/need a technical/practical degree that will get them started in the job world. The real learning for a job takes place there - on the job, not in a book.

With all that in mind, especially the price variable, that's where it really blows my mind that kids come to school and just don't try or take pride in their work. Yeah, I had a great time in college, went out 3-4 times a week every week, played a varsity sport and all that, but when it came time to get down to brass tacks with my work, I always took great pride and care in my work. It's definitely possible to enjoy yourself and work hard. A lotta kids are just too entitled.

[StevePerryHair]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

Students picking their own class schedules. Some of the classes kids are forced to take are asinine.

Break away from 100% classroom model, having more hands on experience in the disciplines they are learning....field trips, HS internships, and even volunteering as part of the grade....

my daughter was forced to take a gaming class....they learned to design a simple video game. Bet you wish they had forced you into a class like that in school

If they offered that class I would be working for Activision, 2K, Sega, Ubisoft, or some other cutting edge software company.....

my son was so mad because that class and technology didn't exist in that school when he was in 8th grade just 2 years later too! I am amazed at the technology classes they have to take though. In the 6th grade he had to come up with a fake product, make an advertisement pamphlet for it, and make a PowerPoint presentation advertising and presenting the fake product. I dont know how to make a PowerPoint presentation these forced classes seem kind of cool to me! It's not like home ec like they made us take in the 80's!!

[Lula]

where to begin..... i've been teaching students with various learning disabilities, various degrees of autism, processing disorders, yada, yada, yada, for 7 years. i would love to be on a reform committee. first thing i'd do with my district is disolve it!

i got nuttin!

[Lula]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

....

desks in rows is so passe

[Saint John]

Why? The fact that they're all white is probably a very good start.

[Lula]

Lord have mercy, dan!

[Saint John]

Lord have mercy, dan!

I know ... because all of those African nations have test scores through the roof.

[bluejeangirl76]

:lol: my son was so mad because that class and technology didn't exist in that school when he was in 8th grade just 2 years later too! I am amazed at the technology classes they have to take though. In the 6th grade he had to come up with a fake product, make an advertisement pamphlet for it, and make a PowerPoint presentation advertising and presenting the fake product. I dont know how to make a PowerPoint presentation these forced classes seem kind of cool to me! It's not like home ec like they made us take in the 80's!!

It's funny... I remember when I started high school, my mom (who went to high school in the 50s) was upset that my school had done away with home ec. Now, kids even younger than that are being offered stuff like this. Damn, I only just learned how to make a PowerPoint presentation a year and a half ago.

I went to high school from 91-94... which was too late for stuff like home ec, yet too early for computer classes. They put in a "computer lab" during my last year or two, but there were no actual classes offered yet. So by default, with no home ec, AND no computer classes, I've been forced to teach myself all this stuff. (and no, my 50's home ec mom is not someone who should be teaching anyone how to cook.... so that was not a learning option for me either... )

[bluejeangirl76]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

....

desks in rows is so passe

But it was easier to sleep when you had someone to hide behind.

[StevePerryHair]

:lol: my son was so mad because that class and technology didn't exist in that school when he was in 8th grade just 2 years later too! I am amazed at the technology classes they have to take though. In the 6th grade he had to come up with a fake product, make an advertisement pamphlet for it, and make a PowerPoint presentation advertising and presenting the fake product. I dont know how to make a PowerPoint presentation these forced classes seem kind of cool to me! It's not like home ec like they made us take in the 80's!!

It's funny... I remember when I started high school, my mom (who went to high school in the 50s) was upset that my school had done away with home ec. Now, kids even younger than that are being offered stuff like this. Damn, I only just learned how to make a PowerPoint presentation a year and a half ago.

I went to high school from 91-94... which was too late for stuff like home ec, yet too early for computer classes. They put in a "computer lab" during my last year or two, but there were no actual classes offered yet. So by default, I've been forced to teach myself all this stuff. (and no, my 50's home ec mom is not someone who should be teaching anyone how to cook.... so that was not a learning option for me either... )

You know, I learned a lot from home ec cooking! Actually, sewing too! Those skills have come in handy too... but then I realize that I can teach my kids those things myself and I'd rather they learn things like powerpoint and other technologies that are current and useful. But then I have to wonder, by the time they are in the work force, will these things be obsolete? Will there be a better easier way to give a presentation? I suppose the exposure to technology will still be helpful though. They will not be intimidated like I am

[StevePerryHair]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

....

desks in rows is so passe

But it was easier to sleep when you had someone to hide behind.

Or goof off in class and laugh and have fun when you could hide in the back of the room

[parfait]

A real education isn't valued in America beyond its ability to help obtain a higher-paying job. Europeans have an inherent lust for learning.

That's bullshit. Though the main thing that's different between american and most european schools, is that it's a helluva lot harder to get good grades in the latter. We don't have multiple choice for example and just here in France the grading system goes from 1-20. I'd say american kids are just lazy - it's all about hard work. Having a poor teacher isn't a excuse for getting lousy grades - all the information needed is in the books already. One thing I don't get though, is the lack of ancient culture, litterature and culture. No one can possibly call themself a educated man, and not know who Sartre, Godot or Kirgegaard is.

Funny you talk about such ancient great literary and philosophical figures but you smelly Frenchies forget the basic history that Americans saved your pathetic smelly country a paltry 70 years ago

A lot of kids are lazy and unmotivated, that's for damn sure. They take no pride in their work. That is the true heart of the matter. Forget about learning disabilities, the way the classroom is set up, and all that nonsense.

But, as for the rest of what you said about the pedagogical style in America, you're way off base. You sound just like the "uncultured, sheltered Americans" that you wouldn't hesitate to make fun of at the drop of a dime. Any decent liberal arts college/humanities major eschew multiple choice examinations for analytical essay exams and will force you to take classes in philosophy, early brit lit, history etc, even if you're in the natural sciences. Oh, and BTW, in the rare times I had a multiple choice/quiz, it was always much tougher than an essay exam. The best and most challenging teachers (or the worst ones on account of poor question writing/answer choice phrasing) can make taking a multiple choice quiz or test very daunting indeed. It's also very tough to grade well at any decent liberal arts college.

That's also not to say that's a very good model for all people. It can be great to get a well-rounded education, for sure. I went to such a college and I don't regret it... but I also didn't pay for it (scholarships, not loans). I might feel differently if I paid full price/was going into big debt to take some of the bullshit classes I had to take.

You see, some people want to go to school to learn a practical skill or profession to make a living for as cheaply and as quickly as they possibly can. You also have to remember that our educational system is nothing like yours - it costs way more here for us to go to school. Not everybody has the time or financial resources to go through 4 years of a liberal arts college. They want/need a technical/practical degree that will get them started in the job world. The real learning for a job takes place there - on the job, not in a book.

With all that in mind, especially the price variable, that's where it really blows my mind that kids come to school and just don't try or take pride in their work. Yeah, I had a great time in college, went out 3-4 times a week every week, played a varsity sport and all that, but when it came time to get down to brass tacks with my work, I always took great pride and care in my work. It's definitely possible to enjoy yourself and work hard. A lotta kids are just too entitled.

Saving us is the least you could do, buttcrack. We were the ones who, you know; build your god damn country! Ideas, culture, government... It's all based upon the French and ancient Greek. Oh, and you people lost in Vietnam, Korea and you're losing in the middle east.

But seriously; you got the right attitude, man. Even though I went to private school, I never got anything for free. It's all about hard working and finding what you're good at. I've never been a straight A student, but the thing that's been keeping me going is my competitive drive. I hate not being number 1. Anyhow; about the culture and litterature thing, I wasn't talking about learning that stuff in high school or college. The only way you can possibly make a winner out of a kid is by pushing them. The kids that buckle under the pressure; too bad for them. The kids that don't however, is a lot better equiped later in life. You can't have winners, and not expect to have losers. I don't know what liberal arts is but it

School isn't supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be hard fucking work.

[Ehwmatt]

The thing that's been keeping me going is my competitive drive. I hate not being number 1. The kids that buckle under the pressure; too bad for them. The kids that don't however, is a lot better equiped later in life. You can't have winners, and not expect to have losers.

You have hit on a crucial point: You are NOT permitted to win in America in good conscience any more! Whether it is the 9-12 year old little league baseball cancelling All Star Games because they don't want kids to feel left out, a varsity high school sport that is "no cut" because they don't want to hurt kids' feelings, a private middle school going to a non-grading system because they don't want to make the impression that some kids are "smarter" than others, or whether it is a successful businessman who has made the most of his skill and makes a lot of money, you are demonized regardless.

Kids today get coddled... really. Even just 15 years ago when I was that age, it wasn't like that. We had all star games, we had cuts, if you sucked you didn't play unless people got hurt, we had grades, we had published honor rolls etc. Now we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so we don't push any one and they never learn to cope with pressure til it's too late.

There's a quickly growing majority in this country now that HATES success at any stage of the game. They don't want any one to be able to distinguish him or herself from her peers through natural talent, hard work, and ambition.

The examples I gave above are all based on real life examples that have actually happened. In fact, this is from a town 45 minutes east of me. Read and weep:

Prior to reading this article, take a second to answer a few questions. If the answer is “No” to any one of them, please reconsider reading the following piece.

Are you a sports fan? Do you believe in competition? Is there a barf-bag within three feet of you, as well as a bottle of Pepto Bismol or Tums, whichever you prefer? You will be needing it in about 10 minutes. Trust me.

I came across this story first on the radio today (Covino and Rich on Sirius) and then on the Internet. The City of Beachwood, wherever that is, has decided that it is in the best interests of the children (ages nine to 12) to cancel the Little League All-Star Game in baseball.

The reason?

Fred Engh, founder of the National Alliance for Youth Sports, states, “There’s nothing like sticking a dagger into a youngster’s self-esteem the first season he plays the sport by letting him know that he’s not good enough or considered worthy to be a part of this elite group of teammates.”

...

Really, Fred? Really?

Is this what sports in America has come to?

What happened to rewarding those who exceed the norm and display superb abilities, reaching such achievements through hard work and effort? I suppose that to protect the feelings of children, we are going to stop rewarding those who go over and beyond the average.

I suppose the example we want to set is that it’s better if everyone is just average and on the same level because we don’t want anyone to feel that their skills and talents make them better.

Don’t reward the kid who shoots 100 free throws a day after school. Reward the fat kid who watches Power Rangers (or whatever kids watch these days) and stuffs his face with Cream Pies.

My God, are you joking me?

Here’s how it works.

If you are not good enough to be on the All-Star team and you really love a sport, your next step should be to take that rejection as motivation to work harder and get better. If you really want to be an All-Star, you work your tail off doing everything that you can possibly do to achieve your goal.

That builds character.

It isn’t just character used in sports either. Knowing what if feels like to fail, and how hard it is to be successful, is what lights the fire in the stomachs of kids and teens wanting to be great in all walks of life.

You can’t experience joy without knowing what sadness feels like. You can’t fully experience what it’s like to be wealthy until you know what it’s like to be poor. You can’t understand the delight and accomplishment that comes with being successful unless you’ve failed.

Character building is something that has held true in America for as long as we’ve been here. It is one of the things we pride ourselves on. We fall down, but we make sure we get up and learn from what we’ve done.

What does it say about this new wave of parents who are afraid to scold their kids and afraid to even have something as small as a Little League All-Star team?

I heard about this new fad of everyone getting medals and trophies, even if they came in last place. When I was a kid, which is not too long ago considering I’m 24, there was a First, Second, and Third-place trophy.

You either finish top three or you finish a loser. I finished a loser before, and it burned me inside until I got to first. I got there eventually, and there was not a better feeling in the world.

Without going on too much of a rant, let me close by saying this.

This is a very, very disturbing trend in the world of sports. You have to realize that Michael Jordan fell in love with basketball after he got cut in high school and then finally made the team. Countless other athletes dealt with rejection before they pushed themselves to become All Pros.

If we start taking away the incentive of winning from our younger generation now, what kind of athletes will we have in 2020 and beyond?

Remember how outraged fans were when Randy Moss said he doesn’t try on every play? Imagine a world where a much larger percentage of athletes stop trying on each play, stop trying to get better each season, and stop caring about who’s first and who’s fifth.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4008 ... s-feelings

[bluejeangirl76]

It's funny... I remember when I started high school, my mom (who went to high school in the 50s) was upset that my school had done away with home ec. Now, kids even younger than that are being offered stuff like this. Damn, I only just learned how to make a PowerPoint presentation a year and a half ago.

I went to high school from 91-94... which was too late for stuff like home ec, yet too early for computer classes. They put in a "computer lab" during my last year or two, but there were no actual classes offered yet. So by default, I've been forced to teach myself all this stuff. (and no, my 50's home ec mom is not someone who should be teaching anyone how to cook.... so that was not a learning option for me either... )

You know, I learned a lot from home ec cooking! Actually, sewing too! Those skills have come in handy too... but then I realize that I can teach my kids those things myself and I'd rather they learn things like powerpoint and other technologies that are current and useful. But then I have to wonder, by the time they are in the work force, will these things be obsolete? Will there be a better easier way to give a presentation? I suppose the exposure to technology will still be helpful though. They will not be intimidated like I am

Yeah sewing was another one... mom wouldn't have anything to do with teaching me that... get this - she was upset that the school took that stuff away, but she didn't want my sister and I using HER sewing machine. I swore long ago I would never be the kind of mother she was.... we learned nothing about anything. By all rights I should have been a teenage unwed mother who couldn't cook, clean, sew or do much of anything else. Thank god my dad passed along a few brain cells and some common sense.

[StevePerryHair]

The thing that's been keeping me going is my competitive drive. I hate not being number 1. The kids that buckle under the pressure; too bad for them. The kids that don't however, is a lot better equiped later in life. You can't have winners, and not expect to have losers.

You have hit on a crucial point: You are NOT permitted to win in America in good conscience any more! Whether it is the 9-12 year old little league baseball cancelling All Star Games because they don't want kids to feel left out, a varsity high school sport that is "no cut" because they don't want to hurt kids' feelings, a private middle school going to a non-grading system because they don't want to make the impression that some kids are "smarter" than others, or whether it is a successful businessman who has made the most of his skill and makes a lot of money, you are demonized regardless.

Kids today get coddled... really. Even just 15 years ago when I was that age, it wasn't like that. We had all star games, we had cuts, if you sucked you didn't play unless people got hurt, we had grades, we had published honor rolls etc. Now we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so we don't push any one and they never learn to cope with pressure til it's too late.

There's a quickly growing majority in this country now that HATES success at any stage of the game. They don't want any one to be able to distinguish him or herself from her peers through natural talent, hard work, and ambition.

I don't know, my daughter belongs to the middle school science olympiad and they compete pretty hard

I do know what you mean about sports though. But see, there is a difference between recreational sports and school sports to me. Recreational sports are created for all kids, even kids with no natural talent for sports, but who may need the outlet and the excercise. YOu know, because our kids can't walk down to the baseball field and meet their friends for a friendly game anymore, for fear of being murdered or kidnapped So because of this, you have to have a way to include all kids when it's a rec league. I feel totally different when it comes to school or professional athletics though. Those are set up with a tryout and you ARE competing and it has more meaning to me. My kids were never star athletes and I have FOUGHT with the coaches in the recreation league sports who just want to sit a kid on a bench more than half the game because they aren't deemed "good enough". How will they ever become good enough? They all get trophies at the end, and they all take pride in being part of a team. I don't see how that is a bad thing. The kids who are the stars, get their recognition plenty.

[bluejeangirl76]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

....

desks in rows is so passe

But it was easier to sleep when you had someone to hide behind.

Or goof off in class and laugh and have fun when you could hide in the back of the room

I did more than my fair share of that. Hmm. Maybe there actually was cooking class and I just didn't notice because I was too busy plotting mayhem in the last row?

We still had the home ec room, though, because they'd only just done away with it a year or two before I got there. That was the room I had "art" class in. The stoves and all that were still there but instead of cooking, I learned about Monet.

Waste of time. at least if I'd learned how too make bread or cake or that didn't come out of a box, I might have retained it. Knowing about Carrivaggio's use of light holds no advantage to me, other than being able to drop a word like "Carrivaggio" on a message board and sounding kinda smart for 10 seconds.

[StevePerryHair]

The three things i'd like to see in HS classrooms are:

The abolishment of desks in ROWS, and put in a circular fashion...promotes equality and a sense of inclusion...

....

desks in rows is so passe

But it was easier to sleep when you had someone to hide behind.

Or goof off in class and laugh and have fun when you could hide in the back of the room

I did more than my fair share of that. Hmm. Maybe there actually was cooking class and I just didn't notice because I was too busy plotting mayhem in the last row?

We still had the home ec room, though, because they'd only just done away with it a year or two before I got there. That was the room I had "art" class in. The stoves and all that were still there but instead of cooking, I learned about Monet.

Waste of time. at least if I'd learned how too make bread or cake or that didn't come out of a box, I might have retained it. Knowing about Carrivaggio's use of light holds no advantage to me, other than being able to drop a word like "Carrivaggio" on a message board and sounding kinda smart for 10 seconds.

I was quiet in high school, so they always put me in the back, but then I somehow ended up near a class clown or 2 in some of my classes and that was it for me! I love laughing to much!! I didn't CREATE the mayhem, but I laughed to the point where I became part of it for sure

[Ehwmatt]

The thing that's been keeping me going is my competitive drive. I hate not being number 1. The kids that buckle under the pressure; too bad for them. The kids that don't however, is a lot better equiped later in life. You can't have winners, and not expect to have losers.

You have hit on a crucial point: You are NOT permitted to win in America in good conscience any more! Whether it is the 9-12 year old little league baseball cancelling All Star Games because they don't want kids to feel left out, a varsity high school sport that is "no cut" because they don't want to hurt kids' feelings, a private middle school going to a non-grading system because they don't want to make the impression that some kids are "smarter" than others, or whether it is a successful businessman who has made the most of his skill and makes a lot of money, you are demonized regardless.

Kids today get coddled... really. Even just 15 years ago when I was that age, it wasn't like that. We had all star games, we had cuts, if you sucked you didn't play unless people got hurt, we had grades, we had published honor rolls etc. Now we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so we don't push any one and they never learn to cope with pressure til it's too late.

There's a quickly growing majority in this country now that HATES success at any stage of the game. They don't want any one to be able to distinguish him or herself from her peers through natural talent, hard work, and ambition.

Those are set up with a tryout and you ARE competing and it has more meaning to me. My kids were never star athletes and I have FOUGHT with the coaches in the recreation league sports who just want to sit a kid on a bench more than half the game because they aren't deemed "good enough". How will they ever become good enough? They all get trophies at the tend, and they all take pride in being part of a team. I don't see how that is a bad thing. The kids who are the stars, get their recognition plenty.

How do they get better? The same way the stars got better... by investing the extra time outside the strictures of the team practice/game. I'm sure you've heard the story of Michael Jordan being cut from his team before. You don't get better just skating by doing the bare minimum. Put in the hours off the game court, improve, and any coach worth his salt will foster that development. Nobody is entitled to just enter the game or get playing time. That's exactly the kinda mentality that has gotten us to where we are.

And really, I don't want to degenerate this into a pure junior sports debate, because it's so much bigger than that. Kids are not being pushed and then end up not being able to handle pressure or take pride in themselves. The sports incidents I pointed out merely demonstrate the coddling starts at a young age and how destructive it can be.