Illegal Immigration in USA: WTF Is There To Argue About?

[Marabelle]

Do you realize how many Congressman and women hire Latinos and illegal aliens to be the nanny for their children?

[ohsherrie]

Do you realize how many Congressman and women hire Latinos and illegal aliens to be the nanny for their children?

Yes and that's one of the reasons they'll never do anything about it. Another reason is the corporate farming industry that employs the illegals and buys politicians.

People need to get off this BS "racial profiling" kick. If you know the most likely offenders look a certain way, whether it's Latino. Mideastern or blue eyed & freckled with a skin head, that's what Law Enforcement needs to look for. How stupid is it for these talking heads in the MSM to be saying Arizona Law Enforcement isn't "trained" to look for illegals like the border patrols are? Do they think the border patrol is "trained" in some special way not to notice whether somebody trying to come into this country has dark skin and black hair? It looks to me like what they're trained to do is look the other way altogether.

It truly is absurd.

I doubt that you're liable to find a semi trailer full of red haired Irish illegal immigrants parked on a back road in Arizona.

[jrnyman28]

Well, I am stunned to learn that "we" have no official language. Seems even back in the 1700's John Adams proposed to make English the official languange and was shot down because we are a nation of immigrants. SO, we spend millions of dollars a year providing essential materials in ALL major languages. However, 27 States have made English their official language including California and Arizona. But it doesn't mean much since they are still required Federally to acknowledge and address those other languages if they are to receive Federal funds.

So I guess I can't blame it all on the greed of the retail establishment.

[Sarah]

Do you realize how many Congressman and women hire Latinos and illegal aliens to be the nanny for their children?

Yes and that's one of the reasons they'll never do anything about it. Another reason is the corporate farming industry that employs the illegals and buys politicians.

People need to get off this BS "racial profiling" kick. If you know the most likely offenders look a certain way, whether it's Latino. Mideastern or blue eyed & freckled with a skin head, that's what Law Enforcement needs to look for. How stupid is it for these talking heads in the MSM to be saying Arizona Law Enforcement isn't "trained" to look for illegals like the border patrols are? Do they think the border patrol is "trained" in some special way not to notice whether somebody trying to come into this country has dark skin and black hair? It looks to me like what they're trained to do is look the other way altogether.

It truly is absurd.

I doubt that you're liable to find a semi trailer full of red haired Irish illegal immigrants parked on a back road in Arizona.

That kind of thinking is what led to Japanese internment and McCarthyism. The problem with racial profiling is that legitimate legal American citizens get caught in the crossfire for something they cannot control, the color of their skin and the actions of strangers. As a legitimate citizen of the US, would you be ok with continuously having to prove your legal status to every cop? And even though you are a legal citizen, always facing harassment and suspicion because of what other people of your skin color have done?

Illegal immigration is a problem, but this law will in fact create more harassment and hatred against AMERICAN CITIZENS who happen to be of Mexican descent. SherriBerry has a good analogy in that it's like trying to curb the drug trade by focusing on the junkies. Instead of racial profiling and harassing every Latino, how about reforming the system that allows them to get paid under the table here.

[Rockindeano]

Well, I am stunned to learn that "we" have no official language. Seems even back in the 1700's John Adams proposed to make English the official languange and was shot down because we are a nation of immigrants. SO, we spend millions of dollars a year providing essential materials in ALL major languages. However, 27 States have made English their official language including California and Arizona. But it doesn't mean much since they are still required Federally to acknowledge and address those other languages if they are to receive Federal funds.

So I guess I can't blame it all on the greed of the retail establishment.

As soon asome here understand that, and recognize it just isn't about being lucky you're born here and even luckier that you're white, the better off we will all be.

SO, we spend millions of dollars a year providing essential materials in ALL major languages.

So what? Like you said, we are a nation of IMMIGRANTS. People come here from all walks of life. A couple hundred million is a partly sum, compared to the wealth and benefit that all the diversity brings. We have Indian doctors saving lives, Arab dentists, Nigerian space engineers and Norwegian police officers. America is all about diversity, despite the vocal outburst by seemingly worried white men, who feel their absolute hold on power is slipping. Now controlled, legal immigration is imperative, not the slipping over the border at midnight bullshit, and Dan makes good points about the violence, drugs and crime illegals bring. Dave28 is also correct that the federal Gov't has the responsibility, among over all things it does, 'to keep America and it's people safe." Well, the Feds need to do more on this issue. The State of AZ and soon to be Texas have it wrong- the way to deal with this is not racial profiling, because that in itself is racist at it's core point. How brown is too brown? Who he fuck gives the Governor of Arizona the right to say who looks more American? The Obama Administration has a perfect chance to score political points as well as do the right thing by signing Immigration Reform, but they have such a huge mess to cleanup from the predecessor group of retards and corrupt folks. Hell, he can't even get e well written Finance Reform Bill signed into law because the Obstructionist Party has to say 'no' for absolutely no other reason other than they are indebted to Wall Street. The sooner the GOP is swept out of the way, the better off this place will be.

[slucero]

....reform with out enforcing the current laws is pointless...

This is just part of the "Dance" the states are doing with the Feds...

The whole point of the Arizona bill is that the Feds don't enforce the current Federal Law... and the states are fed up with simply asking.. and are now legislating it... so in the end.. while this bill will be overturned by SCOTUS... their ruling will roast the Federal Government for not enforcing the law, and give Arizona (and all other states) the ability to sue the government for enforcement...

[Rockindeano]

....reform with out enforcing the current laws is pointless...

This is just part of the "Dance" the states are doing with the Feds...

The whole point of the Arizona bill is that the Feds don't enforce the current Federal Law... and the states are fed up with simply asking.. and are now legislating it... so in the end.. while this bill will be overturned by SCOTUS... their ruling will roast the Federal Government for not enforcing the law, and give Arizona (and all other states) the ability to sue the government for enforcement...

I feel the exact same way you just wrote. Exactly. The problem is there isn't enough money to enforce the Goddamned borders, and tea baggers and republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

[ohsherrie]

Do you realize how many Congressman and women hire Latinos and illegal aliens to be the nanny for their children?

Yes and that's one of the reasons they'll never do anything about it. Another reason is the corporate farming industry that employs the illegals and buys politicians.

People need to get off this BS "racial profiling" kick. If you know the most likely offenders look a certain way, whether it's Latino. Mideastern or blue eyed & freckled with a skin head, that's what Law Enforcement needs to look for. How stupid is it for these talking heads in the MSM to be saying Arizona Law Enforcement isn't "trained" to look for illegals like the border patrols are? Do they think the border patrol is "trained" in some special way not to notice whether somebody trying to come into this country has dark skin and black hair? It looks to me like what they're trained to do is look the other way altogether.

It truly is absurd.

I doubt that you're liable to find a semi trailer full of red haired Irish illegal immigrants parked on a back road in Arizona.

That kind of thinking is what led to Japanese internment and McCarthyism. The problem with racial profiling is that legitimate legal American citizens get caught in the crossfire for something they cannot control, the color of their skin and the actions of strangers. As a legitimate citizen of the US, would you be ok with continuously having to prove your legal status to every cop? And even though you are a legal citizen, always facing harassment and suspicion because of what other people of your skin color have done?

Illegal immigration is a problem, but this law will in fact create more harassment and hatred against AMERICAN CITIZENS who happen to be of Mexican descent. SherriBerry has a good analogy in that it's like trying to curb the drug trade by focusing on the junkies. Instead of racial profiling and harassing every Latino, how about reforming the system that allows them to get paid under the table here.

Are you saying that even though we know that the vast majority of the people who are likely to engage in terrorist acts against this country are of Middle Eastern descent we should suspect every living being on this earth equally of being a threat to this country? Or, are you saying we should suspect nobody because we wouldn't want to infringe on anybody's civil rights and just let them blow up as many planes as they want?

Are you saying that even though we here, in a jurisdiction along a drug corridor in the Mid-Atlantic states, get intelligence from the DEA that a shipment is coming up from Texas in a blue Kenworth semi driven by Mexicans we should stop every blue Kenworth semi that comes through here from Texas regardless of the appearance of the driver?

Are you saying that even though we know we have a problem that is affecting the quality of life of many CITIZENS of this country because of the drain they create on our social programs and could very well threaten the security of all of the CITIZENS of this country if enough terrorists slip through, we shouldn't inconvenience a few people who physically fit the "profile"?

If everybody getting carded is what it takes to keep get the illegals out of this country and keep it safe then every CITIZEN of this country should be proud to do whatever it takes regardless of their ethnicity.

If I knew a pathological murder that fit my description was being sought in this area I'd be damned glad to prove my identity to help Law Enforcement narrow the field.

If we acknowledge that we are a country of immigrants and therefore have no national language and have labeling and instruction booklets written in three or four different languages because we don't all speak alike why is it so wrong to acknowledge that we don't all look alike either and that if you look like a duck and quack like a duck you just might be a damn duck?

You can't have your cake and eat it too, sometime you gotta sacrifice one or the other. Trying to have adequate Law Enforcement and Homeland Security without ethnic profiling is as lame as don't ask, don't tell. Neither of them are realistic they're just pacifiers.

[ohsherrie]

....reform with out enforcing the current laws is pointless...

This is just part of the "Dance" the states are doing with the Feds...

The whole point of the Arizona bill is that the Feds don't enforce the current Federal Law... and the states are fed up with simply asking.. and are now legislating it... so in the end.. while this bill will be overturned by SCOTUS... their ruling will roast the Federal Government for not enforcing the law, and give Arizona (and all other states) the ability to sue the government for enforcement...

I feel the exact same way you just wrote. Exactly. The problem is there isn't enough money to enforce the Goddamned borders, and tea baggers and republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

Ding, Ding, Ding, another winner.

[Saint John]

republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

The tax rate on a million is $350,000. How much do you pay in comparison?

[slucero]

....reform with out enforcing the current laws is pointless...

This is just part of the "Dance" the states are doing with the Feds...

The whole point of the Arizona bill is that the Feds don't enforce the current Federal Law... and the states are fed up with simply asking.. and are now legislating it... so in the end.. while this bill will be overturned by SCOTUS... their ruling will roast the Federal Government for not enforcing the law, and give Arizona (and all other states) the ability to sue the government for enforcement...

I feel the exact same way you just wrote. Exactly. The problem is there isn't enough money to enforce the Goddamned borders, and tea baggers and republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

The Arizona law goes into effect in 90 days... the Justice Dept will review and rule... then Ariz will appeal, and it will be fastracked.. I'm betting it hits SCOTUS pretty quickly... because Utah is working on a similar bill right now, and Texas will have one ready for their spring legislative session...

Scotus overturns this... issues their ruling... and the lawsuits come flying from the states....

[jrnyman28]

A) I am pretty sure the States trying to pass their own Immigration Laws may very well be doing so to try and force the Federal Government to do somehting about it. We already have existing laws that are being completely ignored...

B) We all have to furnish identification anytime we are stopped by the Police, apply for anything, go to certain places. What is the difference?

C) Immigration reform and ENFORCEMENT is imperative to the health of our nation.

D) No law will ever please everyone. Our Political system has two diametrically opposed sides who seem to disagree because 'they're supposed to'. But it's time to do something.

I commend Arizona for trying to do something. Whether it be pushing the Federal hand, having the law repealed, or seeing this law bastardized into something negative as seems to happen to most 'good ideas' (ie Equal Opportunity) Arizona is taking a stand that will hopefully lead to something positive.

This is a problem that has been ignored for the past 30 years. Some will point to the Bush Administration as the root of all our problems but this covers 5 administrations. And actually has roots as old as our Country. Whatever happens will piss off MANY. There is no way NOT TO. But IMO, the LAST people we should be listening/catering to are the illegals themselves. I have a serious issue with the fact that many are using the rights our Country affords them when they are unwilling to follow the steps they are required to take to 'earn' them.

[Rockindeano]

republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

The tax rate on a million is $350,000. How much do you pay in comparison?

Not that much Dan. What a bullshit argument for you to make against me. Personal income is none of your business, nor is it mine. However, yes, I would pay 350K on a million yesterday!

[quote=FactFinder is a sonofabitch"]
This should be good.......

I'm betting that with the EIC and various and sundry other assorted breaks that Deano falls into that 47% who don't pay income taxes. Just a guess. Wink[/quote]

Go fuck yourself. You selfish bastard.


Dan, I notice you nor your inbred ignorant brother FF conveniently skirt the question or comment I made. You Cons want security and border enforcement, yet you all scoff at paying taxes, especially FF. He wants all the luxuries he can get without paying for it. Newsflash Dickcheese, we pay lower taxes than any Government State in the world, so stop your incessant bitching. Pony up or get the fuck outta here.

[jrnyman28]

Pony up or get the fuck outta here.

Could you please tell the illegal immigrants the same thing!

[Saint John]

republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

The tax rate on a million is $350,000. How much do you pay in comparison?

Not that much Dan. What a bullshit argument for you to make against me. Personal income is none of your business, nor is it mine. However, yes, I would pay 350K on a million yesterday!

[quote=FactFinder is a sonofabitch"]
This should be good.......

I'm betting that with the EIC and various and sundry other assorted breaks that Deano falls into that 47% who don't pay income taxes. Just a guess. Wink

Go fuck yourself. You selfish bastard.


Dan, I notice you nor your inbred ignorant brother FF conveniently skirt the question or comment I made. You Cons want security and border enforcement, yet you all scoff at paying taxes, especially FF. He wants all the luxuries he can get without paying for it. Newsflash Dickcheese, we pay lower taxes than any Government State in the world, so stop your incessant bitching. Pony up or get the fuck outta here.[/quote]

We can afford it easily. Immediately discontinue virtually every social program ... with the exception of retards and the handicapped. And you're right, personal income isn't anyone's business ... the government included! Thanks for proving our point. You're a Fair Tax proponent. Cool.

[Behshad]

republicans don't want to pay a dime in taxes, yet they want all the services they can get.

The tax rate on a million is $350,000. How much do you pay in comparison?

Not that much Dan. What a bullshit argument for you to make against me. Personal income is none of your business, nor is it mine. However, yes, I would pay 350K on a million yesterday!

[quote=FactFinder is a sonofabitch"]
This should be good.......

I'm betting that with the EIC and various and sundry other assorted breaks that Deano falls into that 47% who don't pay income taxes. Just a guess. Wink

Go fuck yourself. You selfish bastard.


Dan, I notice you nor your inbred ignorant brother FF conveniently skirt the question or comment I made. You Cons want security and border enforcement, yet you all scoff at paying taxes, especially FF. He wants all the luxuries he can get without paying for it. Newsflash Dickcheese, we pay lower taxes than any Government State in the world, so stop your incessant bitching. Pony up or get the fuck outta here.

We can afford it easily. Immediately discontinue virtually every socail program ... with the exception of retards and the handicapped. And you're right, personal income isn't anyone's business ... the government included! Thanks for proving our point. You're a Fair Tax proponent. Cool.

Did you just call HIM Dan ??

[slucero]

Pony up or get the fuck outta here.

Could you please tell the illegal immigrants the same thing!

No he won't. The libs want them as votes, it's that fucking simple. The day this country passes a law making it required to show ID to vote..the libs lose and they know it.

Actually... EITHER party wants the votes.... that's why the party "out of favor/power" always tries to DELAY so called "reform" until they regain power/favor... so they can say "lookie... we want you illegals here... we got you amnesty.. now vote for our party"....

Stop making this a Republican vs. Democrat pissing match...

This Arizona law is about the same problem we've had FOR YEARS... the Feds NOT enforcing the LAW.

[Sarah]

If I knew a pathological murder that fit my description was being sought in this area I'd be damned glad to prove my identity to help Law Enforcement narrow the field.

That is not the same thing, that would be a one-time event whereas this bill makes it so Latinos have to constantly prove their legality again and again. They don't get to prove their citizenship once and be done with it like in your scenario, they're going to have to pull out papers every time an authority figure sees fit. It's easy for you to shrug because you're white and have never been discriminated against by your country because of it, but minorities face discrimination every day and are usually treated as "guilty until proven innocent" by law enforcement, and to make it legal to harass LEGAL Latinos is embarrassing for a country that claims to be one of tolerance and equal opportunity. And what will this law accomplish? Some illegals will be caught. More will come in through loopholes in the system. Meanwhile America is harassing its own citizens on a daily basis and breeding hatred for anyone with brown skin.

I think if you were being harassed every day by cops and neighbors alike you would be up in arms about your rights as a citizen.

This bill is the wrong way to go about solving illegal immigration.

[Saint John]

this bill makes it so Latinos have to constantly prove their legality again and again.

Sounds fair to me. If the vast majority of the illegals are latinos who else are you gonna profile ... old white women?!?!

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

to make it legal to harass LEGAL Latinos is embarrassing for a country that claims to be one of tolerance and equal opportunity.

Proving your citizenship isn't harrassment. Perhaps an inconvenience, but nothing more. Part of the penalty for being of the same descent as the droves of criminals that cross over into this country illegally. They should be pissed at them. Illegals kill 25+ per day in this country. But we wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone trying to curb this.

[Behshad]

Proving your citizenship isn't harrassment. Perhaps an inconvenience, but nothing more. Part of the penalty for being of the same descent as the droves of criminals that cross over into this country illegally. They should be pissed at them. Illegals kill 25+ per day in this country. But we wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone trying to curb this.

This I agree with , 100% !

[jrnyman28]

This bill is the wrong way to go about solving illegal immigration.

Maybe so, but it's a start. And while I hold no belief that this law will not 'go bad', there are attempts to keep it on the straight and level by providing SPECIFIC training for Police. And intentions are often manipulated but the wording has attempted to make this like the Seatbelt Laws. You cannot be confronted about citizenship unless already in contact for a legitimate legal reason. I understand that in black and white it means that anyone suspected of criminal activity can be asked to furnish proof, and by definition being in this Country illegally would be criminal activity. But I still believe we gotta start somewhere and send a message. There IS a legal way to be in this country.......USE IT!

[Sarah]

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

Based on what? Do you even know any minorities?

[jrnyman28]

Part of the penalty for being of the same descent as the droves of criminals that cross over into this country illegally. They should be pissed at them. Illegals kill 25+ per day in this country. But we wouldn't want to inconvenience anyone trying to curb this.

We need legal immigrants to be a part of coming up with solutions! You are correct, they should be pissed that they did it the right way, the long way, the expensive way, while all these others are taking the easy way and being rewarded for it.

[Rockindeano]

Pony up or get the fuck outta here.

Could you please tell the illegal immigrants the same thing!

No he won't. The libs want them as votes, it's that fucking simple. The day this country passes a law making it required to show ID to vote..the libs lose and they know it.

LOL, righhht. The day the Finance Reform Bill passes, you assholes are fucked. Care to explain that one Dicknose?

I am in favour of ID cards, but you needledicks will probably bitch about the cost to produce them.

[Saint John]

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

Based on what? Do you even know any minorities?

I have lived in a 50%+ hispanic neighborhood every day of my life. I have tons of Mexican friends. Tons.

[Rockindeano]

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

Oh come on now Dan. Please ell me you aren't being serious here.

[jrnyman28]

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

Based on what? Do you even know any minorities?

Nowadays, depending on where you live (or even where you are standing at the time) whites ARE a minority.
It's understandable to feel uncomfortable when you are in that situation, where you don't understand what anyone is saying, maybe they are talking about you, maybe they are planning something or are going to take advantage of you (a form of discrimination). Maybe 'we' don't feel it everyday, but this goes back to my desire for English to be the only language. If you come here, you should learn it. Then, at least, you can communicate and understand. I should not have to learn Spanish (or any other language) to feel comfortable in a Nation whose de facto language is English. It is expected that when you come to this country you learn and respect our language, our customs, our laws, our culture. You are expected to respect our Flag.

[Saint John]

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

Oh come on now Dan. Please ell me you aren't being serious here.

Totally serious. What the fuck are you two talking about? They have cops kicking their doors in? Beating them for no reason? What ... where? This is the 21st century and everything is recorded and filmed. That shit doesn't go on today.

[jrnyman28]

I am in favour of ID cards

But how do you get one?

[Ehwmatt]

but minorities face discrimination every day

Total bullshit.

Oh come on now Dan. Please ell me you aren't being serious here.

Totally serious. What the fuck are you two talking about? They have cops kicking their doors in? Beating them for no reason? What ... where? This is the 21st century and everything is recorded and filmed. That shit doesn't go on today.

It's no different than the ivory tower libs who kicked and screamed at the Patriot Act, thinking that Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith or the Agents from the Matrix would show up on their apartment doorsteps and detain them without cause and waterboard them. lol. Fuckin loonies