Has death finally come to Pirate Bay?

[steveo777]

Waits for its Germany-based bandwidth provider CB3ROB.net to review the injunction notice it finally received after learning last week that it faced fines and jail time if it did not halt routing the Swedish BitTorrent traffic site’s traffic.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/89151/the- ... mporarily/

I never know when these things are gonna sink it permanently. They never were worth a shit anyways. They didn't have any Neal Schon albums.

[Everett]

I thought this was gonna be about the pitsburgh pirates

[Don]

They say they already have a backup plan. You still have Demonoid and non torrent sites like megaupload, rapidshare, etc.

[steveo777]

I thought this was gonna be about the pitsburgh pirates

You have a lot to learn, Kid.

[steveo777]

They say they already have a backup plan. You still have Demonoid and non torrent sites like megaupload, rapidshare, etc.

Demonoid requires an invite and I don't know anyone with an account to invite me. You?

[Behshad]

Piratebay IS THE BEST, SPECIALLY since they have no midget schon
They will never be able to shut it down completely. The guys behind the bay are very smart and have great knowledge when it comes to computers , networking and bypassing bs laws.

Long Live The Bay.

[steveo777]

Piratebay IS THE BEST, SPECIALLY since they have no midget schon
They will never be able to shut it down completely. The guys behind the bay are very smart and have great knowledge when it comes to computers , networking and bypassing bs laws.

Long Live The Bay.

Not everyone will share your view. Got your flame retardant suit on?

[Behshad]

Piratebay IS THE BEST, SPECIALLY since they have no midget schon
They will never be able to shut it down completely. The guys behind the bay are very smart and have great knowledge when it comes to computers , networking and bypassing bs laws.

Long Live The Bay.

Not everyone will share your view. Got your flame retardant suit on?

You should know by now I don't expect everyone agreeing with me,,, only the smart ones.

In regards to Neal ? He's a midget. Not my view.

In regards to Pirate Bay , I don't give a fuck who doesn't agree with me, but unlike the Somalian Pirates , these guys promote freedom

Now I don't use it daily or weekly for that matter. I use it when I need to preview a movie or album before buying it. Or sometimes to download an overpriced software

[Hollywood]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't believe their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

[Behshad]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

[G.I.Jim]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

I disagree with you here B. It's not the same. Sure we all break laws occasionally. I speed SOMETIMES... follow too close SOMETIMES... I've gotten pretty hammered then drove home (years ago, and I was an IDIOT!). The difference here is that the people that I know that do this don't EVER pay for songs! That's a LOT different. I'll download a bootleg or something that hasn't been released yet (if someone offers it to me), but I'll ALWAYS buy it eventually. I've only even done that a few times, and felt guilty as hell. I'm a collector, and have probably 850 or more cds.

I have a vested interest in the subject though, because I've spent a LOT of money on my own album. I'd eventually LOVE to be able to make my money back that I've invested, but it's very unlikely. A few here will buy it, but I think many that are interested in it will download it. I guess if you want to compare it to cars, picture yourself owning a car lot. You own all of the cars on the lot, and sell one. The person you sold it to made copies of the keys, and they fit ALL of your cars. The next thing you know... you have no cars left, and half of the people never paid for them. It's that simple.

[Behshad]

I respectfully disagree, Jimbalaya.
I used the car example cause douche bag brought it up.
I download songs and movies occasionally. But I spend a great amount of my money on buying.
I had over 1000 VHS movies before I started collecting DVDs. I had over 500 DVDs before I started collecting blurays. And by the time I have 500 blurays , then a new format comes out.

Same thing with music. I have bought over 1000 records/cassettes/CDs.
And in the gaming world I hava collected many systems and games over the last 20+ years.Sure , there's always gonna be those cheapskates (TNB) that won't spend a dime and want it all FREE. But that ain't me. I support the industry , while I support the FREEDOM of us doing whatever we wanna do with what we own !

Sad thing is , the artists (musicians) get the fraction of SOLD albums/songs , so in the long run it won't affect them as much as it affects those making big bux off of artists. Besides , with the Internet , it's almost impossible to stop this trend. It's part of thd digital age.

[steveo777]

I remember running Windows 2000 on my computer before anyone else had it, because of being able to download it.

[Monker]

Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape

LOL...that's not against the law. You break the law if you try to sell it or broadcast it publicly.

or installing an older version of Windows

Don't know about that one...probably is since you paid for the use of one product and the license to use, and not the older one....unless you have already paid for that product in some other way.

or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape.

Again, not against the law unless you sell that tape or broadcast it. You can copy all the CDs you want for your won personal use.

That's all copyright law infrigment.

Prove it. Where is a case where somebody was taken to court and fined for copying music, or movie, or even games, for their own personal use. Even something like MAME perfectly legal -- if you paid for and own the ROMs.

it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

Not if by 'share' you mean pay for it, or you offer it up for public use/download. THAT is definitely not ethical, or legal.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

That's not a fair comparison. It's more like buying the Audi, cloning it, and selling it as an Audi, but not paying Audi for the use of their Name or slapping it on the clone of their product. Now, if you want to take that Audi, clone it, and drive around that clone - nobody cares.

[Behshad]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

[Hollywood]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

I actually did not chose my name, my ancestors did. It's my last name.

Monker is right, the cases you sight are not copyright infringement. If you are stealing music, and yes it is stealing just like stealing a car or a pack of gum, you are breaking copyright laws and taking money out of people's pockets. You cannot find justification for stealing.

The only reason the music business is crumbling is that people are no longer paying for music. I have an 18 year old cousin that has never paid for music, but has tons of it. If the artists and record companies can't get paid the product will become more and more scarce. This is why Styx will not work on new material. It is counter productive to them. In addition, people that are downloading music are less invested in the bands they like and do not go to concerts. The younger generations are not attending concerts like past generations. Very few newer bands can fill arenas and amphitheaters anymore. Bottom line is that if you are not willing to pay for it then you do not get to have it.

[Hollywood]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

All of these are bad examples. They are consumable and not unique items. You are not paying for the peach that the farmer sells, you are paying for his labor and materials that he used to produce the peach. The lemonade example is competition. And the dogs are the same competition.

[Behshad]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

I actually did not chose my name, my ancestors did. It's my last name.

Monker is right, the cases you sight are not copyright infringement. If you are stealing music, and yes it is stealing just like stealing a car or a pack of gum, you are breaking copyright laws and taking money out of people's pockets. You cannot find justification for stealing.

The only reason the music business is crumbling is that people are no longer paying for music. I have an 18 year old cousin that has never paid for music, but has tons of it. If the artists and record companies can't get paid the product will become more and more scarce. This is why Styx will not work on new material. It is counter productive to them. In addition, people that are downloading music are less invested in the bands they like and do not go to concerts. The younger generations are not attending concerts like past generations. Very few newer bands can fill arenas and amphitheaters anymore. Bottom line is that if you are not willing to pay for it then you do not get to have it.

Read above ,DB

If Styx isn't recording anymore it's cause they finally realized they suck ! Has nothing to do with copyrights and stealing music.


Last but not least. Piratebay doesn't steal. They allow sharing . Plus I can guarantee you the most artists lose income a lot more by being raped by the record labels than downloads.

Bottom line is , as long as we have the world wide web , there will be downloading and filesharing and some kind of "illegal" activity going on smoothly.

[Behshad]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

All of these are bad examples.

why ?! You suggesting that a songwritter works harder than a let's say farmer. And since it's easier to monitor digital downloads than growing and selling trees , then fuck the farmer.

Where do we draw the line. If you gonna have laws to protect peoples income and products they sell, how do you decide which profession is included and which one is not ?!

[Hollywood]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

I actually did not chose my name, my ancestors did. It's my last name.

Monker is right, the cases you sight are not copyright infringement. If you are stealing music, and yes it is stealing just like stealing a car or a pack of gum, you are breaking copyright laws and taking money out of people's pockets. You cannot find justification for stealing.

The only reason the music business is crumbling is that people are no longer paying for music. I have an 18 year old cousin that has never paid for music, but has tons of it. If the artists and record companies can't get paid the product will become more and more scarce. This is why Styx will not work on new material. It is counter productive to them. In addition, people that are downloading music are less invested in the bands they like and do not go to concerts. The younger generations are not attending concerts like past generations. Very few newer bands can fill arenas and amphitheaters anymore. Bottom line is that if you are not willing to pay for it then you do not get to have it.

Read above ,DB

If Styx isn't recording anymore it's cause they finally realized they suck ! Has nothing to do with copyrights and stealing music.


Last but not least. Piratebay doesn't steal. They allow sharing . Plus I can guarantee you the most artists lose income a lot more by being raped by the record labels than downloads.

Bottom line is , as long as we have the world wide web , there will be downloading and filesharing and some kind of "illegal" activity going on smoothly.

Like Styx or not, it is counterproductive to spend money to lose money.

I have a close friend that is a songwriter and perfomer. He was not hugely successful, but he had 5 albums released on major labels and one went gold. He made six figures for years up until downloading started to shrink his pay. He now makes under $5000 a year in royalties from sales and publishing combined. His band still draws 500 - 1000 a night and he makes a living, but everyone knows the new songs at the shows. Yet they lose money on the record.

You are right that Piratebay does not steal, they just enable people to do it.

You are also right that this will never end as long as we have the internet. Just like that as long as we have trucks and boats there will be human trafficking. Does not make it right though.

[Ehwmatt]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

I actually did not chose my name, my ancestors did. It's my last name.

Monker is right, the cases you sight are not copyright infringement. If you are stealing music, and yes it is stealing just like stealing a car or a pack of gum, you are breaking copyright laws and taking money out of people's pockets. You cannot find justification for stealing.

The only reason the music business is crumbling is that people are no longer paying for music. I have an 18 year old cousin that has never paid for music, but has tons of it. If the artists and record companies can't get paid the product will become more and more scarce. This is why Styx will not work on new material. It is counter productive to them. In addition, people that are downloading music are less invested in the bands they like and do not go to concerts. The younger generations are not attending concerts like past generations. Very few newer bands can fill arenas and amphitheaters anymore. Bottom line is that if you are not willing to pay for it then you do not get to have it.

There's two sides to every coin. I don't support dickbags running around getting everything movie, game, and music-wise totally free. However, illegal downloading is not the sole reason bands like Styx aren't making music, regardless of what the band says about it. They simply don't have the inspirational spark or the relevance to do so. Real artists never lose that desire to write and put stuff out there, so long as they are still inspired. I submit that the current iteration of Styx simply isn't inspired any longer. Does the fact that you can't make as good of a cut off the album as you once could play into that? Sure. But it's not the sole reason.

Popular concerts are still well-attended, even with the bad economy and the grossly inflated ticket prices most bands charge us. Now, just because the lion's share of those popular concerts happen to feature artists most of us wouldn't give two seconds of our music listening time to doesn't mean you can say that "younger people" don't go to concerts. They do.

That brings me to my next point: If someone attends a band's concert, pays $30+ AND the ridiculous "convenience fees" to do so and just for example's sake, throw in a $35 t-shirt purchase at the merch stand, I don't have a problem with them downloading a few albums later on... or flip the hypo and have them download an album or two FIRST and then be inspired to buy the ticket. The band gets a lot more money from that one ticket then they will from several album sales.

Should they buy the albums when it's all said and done? Probably. But, realistically, let's not forget in these 11 long years after the advent of Napster that the record companies blew it first: They were making out like bandits charging us $14-$20 a pop for a new 12-track CD with sparse (or non-existent) liner notes and afterthought album artwork in the mid to late 90s and even in the early 2000s when downloading was reaching its peak. They were very late to the new music sales paradigm, which involved lower prices, combo packages, services like iTunes and Amazon Music etc etc. To make matters worse, their tardiness was driven by their own selfish and unrealistic idea that they could fight downloading and maintain the status quo, which would allow them to continue bilking the consumers for all they were worth.

I tend to think that things have evened out pretty nicely with the rise of great, easily used services like iTunes that allow people to obtain music instantly for a reasonable price. Are people ever going to (legally) consume music like they once did? No. Does illegal downloading play a part in that? Absolutely. But, is that the sole reason? No. The fact of the matter is that music was once the centerpiece of our entertainment/social culture. That's simply not the case today with YouTube, 1000 channel cable packages, videogames, Internet browsing, social networking, and the like. I truly believe that those factors, combined with the lower overall quality and diversity of music, has really hurt music as a whole much more so than Napster, BitTorrent, Limewire etc. ever did or will.

I actually did a very large school project a few years back for an advanced journalism class on the state of the music industry in the Napster aftermath... had some nice interviews with Sterling Whitaker [author of Grand Delusion], JSS, and The James Gang's Jimmie Fox. I'll dig through my thumb drive and see if I still have that on here. Might be good reading.

[Voyager]

I actually did not chose my name, my ancestors did. It's my last name.

Good one! You should come over and party with me and my friends Beverly Hills and Sandy Eggo sometime.

[Andrew]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

Interesting angle, but in all these examples Beshad, SOMEONE got paid at the originating point.

With music downloading, neither the artist or the songwriter gets a cent. Ever.

[Ehwmatt]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

Interesting angle, but in all these examples Beshad, SOMEONE got paid at the originating point.

With music downloading, neither the artist or the songwriter gets a cent. Ever.

In most cases, short of the studio desk jockey or tech stealing the physical copy, at least someone paid for it to get it out there. Not that it makes it ok for 1000 people to go have it forever after that, but just sayin...

[Voyager]

Everybody knows it's wrong to steal music and software, but it will never stop as long as you can transfer a file.

[Behshad]

To add a bit more twist to this.
Pirate bay doesn't copy or sell or even give out free music or software. They don't own a single file of what's being shared.
So should they be responsible for all the a actions of those who share/steal ?!

Monker is gonna jump in with " but they're enabeling it. "

The INTERNET is what's enabeling it


I support the musicians , Drewsky. You should know from me buy merchendise at your event.
I just don't agree with shutting down Pirate Bay. They have helped me decide what's good there to buy and what's junk that I delete and wouldve never bought if I known it was junk. with the cd store policy , where you can't return a CD if it's shitty then The Bay has been my helper.

[StevePerryHair]

I thought this was gonna be about the pitsburgh pirates

You have a lot to learn, Kid.

Yeah, like how to spell PITTSBURGH!!!

[steveo777]

To add a bit more twist to this.
Pirate bay doesn't copy or sell or even give out free music or software. They don't own a single file of what's being shared.
So should they be responsible for all the a actions of those who share/steal ?!

Monker is gonna jump in with " but they're enabeling it. "

The INTERNET is what's enabeling it


I support the musicians , Drewsky. You should know from me buy merchendise at your event.
I just don't agree with shutting down Pirate Bay. They have helped me decide what's good there to buy and what's junk that I delete and wouldve never bought if I known it was junk. with the cd store policy , where you can't return a CD if it's shitty then The Bay has been my helper.

Hehehe...The Bay has also helped me decide with a quickness what I don't want to buy. Some albums that have a lot of hype behind them turn out to be pure shit and that's all it was.....marketing. Chinese Democracy is one of those for me. I'm glad I got to hear it first!

[Andrew]

In most cases, short of the studio desk jockey or tech stealing the physical copy, at least someone paid for it to get it out there. Not that it makes it ok for 1000 people to go have it forever after that, but just sayin...

If the artist paid for it themselves they are in debt to sales (which are being taken away).

If the label paid the artist, then the laebl will be out of pocket, or the artist will owe the label. No winners here.

[Hollywood]

I am with you about the BS laws. I always thought people shouldn't get paid for their work. I went to the Audi dealership and took an R8 and they got all shitty about it calling the cops and everything. I can't beleive their are laws about me taking stuff that isn't mine. This country is going down the tubes!!!

First of , with that name you chose , I guess I wouldn't expect anything less from you , dickbag.

If you're promoting your good will and great citizens , save it. Copyright laws ARE bs laws. They're laws that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US HAS BROKEN AT SOME POINT.
Whether it was recording a movie off TV on a VHS tape , or installing an older version of Windows or simply copying the content of a music CD into a cassette tape. That's all copyright law infrigment.
While I think every creator of movie , software , game , song should make money for their hard work , I also believe that once you PAY for it and own your part , it's up to you who you wanna share it with.

How'd you like it if that Audi dealer told you , pay up $140k for this R8 , but we tell you how to use it and you can't allow anyone else using it.

I actually did not chose my name, my ancestors did. It's my last name.

Monker is right, the cases you sight are not copyright infringement. If you are stealing music, and yes it is stealing just like stealing a car or a pack of gum, you are breaking copyright laws and taking money out of people's pockets. You cannot find justification for stealing.

The only reason the music business is crumbling is that people are no longer paying for music. I have an 18 year old cousin that has never paid for music, but has tons of it. If the artists and record companies can't get paid the product will become more and more scarce. This is why Styx will not work on new material. It is counter productive to them. In addition, people that are downloading music are less invested in the bands they like and do not go to concerts. The younger generations are not attending concerts like past generations. Very few newer bands can fill arenas and amphitheaters anymore. Bottom line is that if you are not willing to pay for it then you do not get to have it.

There's two sides to every coin. I don't support dickbags running around getting everything movie, game, and music-wise totally free. However, illegal downloading is not the sole reason bands like Styx aren't making music, regardless of what the band says about it. They simply don't have the inspirational spark or the relevance to do so. Real artists never lose that desire to write and put stuff out there, so long as they are still inspired. I submit that the current iteration of Styx simply isn't inspired any longer. Does the fact that you can't make as good of a cut off the album as you once could play into that? Sure. But it's not the sole reason.

Popular concerts are still well-attended, even with the bad economy and the grossly inflated ticket prices most bands charge us. Now, just because the lion's share of those popular concerts happen to feature artists most of us wouldn't give two seconds of our music listening time to doesn't mean you can say that "younger people" don't go to concerts. They do.

That brings me to my next point: If someone attends a band's concert, pays $30+ AND the ridiculous "convenience fees" to do so and just for example's sake, throw in a $35 t-shirt purchase at the merch stand, I don't have a problem with them downloading a few albums later on... or flip the hypo and have them download an album or two FIRST and then be inspired to buy the ticket. The band gets a lot more money from that one ticket then they will from several album sales.

Should they buy the albums when it's all said and done? Probably. But, realistically, let's not forget in these 11 long years after the advent of Napster that the record companies blew it first: They were making out like bandits charging us $14-$20 a pop for a new 12-track CD with sparse (or non-existent) liner notes and afterthought album artwork in the mid to late 90s and even in the early 2000s when downloading was reaching its peak. They were very late to the new music sales paradigm, which involved lower prices, combo packages, services like iTunes and Amazon Music etc etc. To make matters worse, their tardiness was driven by their own selfish and unrealistic idea that they could fight downloading and maintain the status quo, which would allow them to continue bilking the consumers for all they were worth.

I tend to think that things have evened out pretty nicely with the rise of great, easily used services like iTunes that allow people to obtain music instantly for a reasonable price. Are people ever going to (legally) consume music like they once did? No. Does illegal downloading play a part in that? Absolutely. But, is that the sole reason? No. The fact of the matter is that music was once the centerpiece of our entertainment/social culture. That's simply not the case today with YouTube, 1000 channel cable packages, videogames, Internet browsing, social networking, and the like. I truly believe that those factors, combined with the lower overall quality and diversity of music, has really hurt music as a whole much more so than Napster, BitTorrent, Limewire etc. ever did or will.

I actually did a very large school project a few years back for an advanced journalism class on the state of the music industry in the Napster aftermath... had some nice interviews with Sterling Whitaker [author of Grand Delusion], JSS, and The James Gang's Jimmie Fox. I'll dig through my thumb drive and see if I still have that on here. Might be good reading.

That is a good point about the cost to go to shows. However, in many cases the artist is losing out on money due to these fees. Case in point; I went to see the Old 97s last year. Ticket was $20. I did not want to deal with TicketBastard so I bought my ticket through the venue. Still a $7.25 fee. I saved money over TicketBastard, but still. The typical split of gross revenues are 40% artist, 40% venue, 20 % promoter. In this case the band gets $8. The venue wants $20 to park in their own parking lot. They want $9 for a domestic beer. I like beer but I passed. They also tack on fees to the merch. The band, who I saw shortly before this, charged $20 for a shirt, but to cover the venue percentage was charging $35. No shirt for me.

In the end I paid the venue $35.25 and the band $8. Does not seem fair seeing that I would not be at the venue without the band and the band has to cover travel and crew out of that $8.