Has death finally come to Pirate Bay?

[Arianddu]

I remember reading somewhere about the idea of ethical downloading. It went something like this:

1. Download stuff that has not been made commercially available on CD/DVD, and then register that you have done so on a website, so there is a list of demand that companies can see, and hopefully re-release stuff from. Part of this is that you agree that if it becomes commercially available, you will buy a copy.

2. Download stuff that has been released commerically on disc, but that you cannot find copies of, and again, register it on a website. Again, the deal is that you agree to buy a copy if it is available.

3. Download stuff that is available to you, with an understanding that if you like it, you will buy it within six months of downloading it, and if you don't like it, you will delete the file you downloaded within 6 weeks of download.

I thought it was pretty reasonable, and it's how I treat downloading, EXCEPT free-to-air TV programs. I confess, I just don't want to wait 6-20 weeks to get my fix of Castle, Dexter, Bones, not to mention the programs that aren't on TV in Australia that I love (True Blood, Dollhouse, Sarah Jane Adventures, Little Mosque on the Prarie, etc).

I think the recording companies need to quit living in the past. We've been sharing music for as long as we've had the ability to; remember swapping tapes? It's part of how we find out about new music we like. I've been actively searching for Talisman albums in Adelaide shops because B sent me a few MP3s of their stuff, and every time I ask 'do you have anything by Talisman in stock?', it gets recorded and there's impetus to supply. Trying to shut file sharing down isn't going to work. Letting go of the monopoly mentality and embracing it will go much further. If record companies were supporting the idea of ethical file sharing, instead of screaming 'criminals stealing our profits!', then I suspect a hell of a lot more people would step up to the plate.

[SherriBerry]

Artists should be fairly compensated for their work and be able to make a decent living from what they create. If someone creates a site that enables the copying/sharing of files that they never paid for and the users never paid for, the artists are being ripped off period. The fact that the labels were originally sticking it to consumers is irrelevant - usually, they were sticking it to the artists first.

The industry contributed greatly to the problem because it thought it could maintain the status quo and keep charging people ridiculous prices for CDs when consumers found a way to get them for free. I guess they thought the majority would pay, but I think the trend to filesharing was part protest and part dishonesty, coupled with new technology. We all had friends make mixed tapes or copied one or two of our own albums to cassettes so we could play them in the car, but that required buying the album in the first place - filesharing on the Internet has circumvented all of that. How does the artist (not the label) get fairly compensated for their work now? Only by live performances? The irony of that is the Internet returning the artist to the 19th Century when that was the only way they could make a living.

Seriously, what is a fair way to adapt to the Internet and allow the artist to make money? Because the majority of the post-Internet generations do not consider downloading music as theft and will not pay later for something they got for free. Perhaps there will be a revolution in file protection technology, akin to the way they can make copying pages of text impossible with special paper.

I paid for all of my CDs - Journey, Steve Perry, Neal Schon (I am still waiting on the latest!), and Gregg Rolie's debut CD, so I really do understand wanting to hear the entire album first. Journey owes me a refund for Generations (I'll take a Medium sized Journey T-shirt in trade) and I would accept Gregg's latest work in trade for his original.

[parfait]

Downloading from Pirate Bay is stealing, simple as that. You screw the people who've put in work and money into the product, just cause you're too cheap to spend 10 $ on a CD or whatever. Sure, it's convenient, but that's about it.

[Behshad]

Downloading from Pirate Bay is stealing, simple as that. You screw the people who've put in work and money into the product, just cause you're too cheap to spend 10 $ on a CD or whatever. Sure, it's convenient, but that's about it.

And the " Captain moron obvious " has arrived.

Aren't you the same idiot who gave REAL pirates props for stealing from ships ?!
Get a grip and read what we have discussed here and then share something useful that we already don't know.
I'm 100% sure that YOU have at some point copied a CD,Song or movie illegaly.

Then again, who knows, you're perfect in every way. So chances are that you are the most loving caring honest person on this planet. Salutations , Sir dickwad !

[Andrew]

I thought it was pretty reasonable, and it's how I treat downloading, EXCEPT free-to-air TV programs. I confess, I just don't want to wait 6-20 weeks to get my fix of Castle, Dexter, Bones, not to mention the programs that aren't on TV in Australia that I love (True Blood, Dollhouse, Sarah Jane Adventures, Little Mosque on the Prarie, etc).

I download everything for TV shows....not going to wait either and FREE to air TV shows should never be charged for by any network...they should all be available free
Mind you, then the advertisers don't get as much value and pressure on the network's bottom end can eventuate. But they are all getting paid product placement fees anyway...

[Andrew]

Downloading from Pirate Bay is stealing, simple as that. You screw the people who've put in work and money into the product, just cause you're too cheap to spend 10 $ on a CD or whatever. Sure, it's convenient, but that's about it.

And the " Captain moron obvious " has arrived.

That's enough B.

[Arianddu]

I thought it was pretty reasonable, and it's how I treat downloading, EXCEPT free-to-air TV programs. I confess, I just don't want to wait 6-20 weeks to get my fix of Castle, Dexter, Bones, not to mention the programs that aren't on TV in Australia that I love (True Blood, Dollhouse, Sarah Jane Adventures, Little Mosque on the Prarie, etc).

I download everything for TV shows....not going to wait either and FREE to air TV shows should never be charged for by any network...they should all be available free
Mind you, then the advertisers don't get as much value and pressure on the network's bottom end can eventuate. But they are all getting paid product placement fees anyway...

Sigh. A former workmate in London used to regularly nag me about what's going on in 'Neighbours'. Was SO glad when she started downloading it (it'll rot her brain and kill her faster.)

[Behshad]

Downloading from Pirate Bay is stealing, simple as that. You screw the people who've put in work and money into the product, just cause you're too cheap to spend 10 $ on a CD or whatever. Sure, it's convenient, but that's about it.

And the " Captain moron obvious " has arrived.

That's enough B.

Yes boss. I was just stating the obvious

[Monker]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.

Not the same thing...that peach tree is not copyrighted. Now, if that company manipulated the genetics of the tree so it was resistant to some disease or could grow in some odd climate....And, you buy that tree and somehow clone and sell that genetic trait - you will be sued.,

#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.

Blah, blah, blah...see above...this is the same example with dogs.

#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.

Again, not the same thing. When you download music from a file sharing site, you are not destroying it and making something new.

You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

You draw the line when you are selling pirated material, or broadcasting it publicly. It's really that simple.

[Monker]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

Interesting angle, but in all these examples Beshad, SOMEONE got paid at the originating point.

With music downloading, neither the artist or the songwriter gets a cent. Ever.

Or, the record label, which is really who is driving the legality of it....Some artists don't care if their music is downloaded.

[Behshad]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.

Not the same thing...that peach tree is not copyrighted. Now, if that company manipulated the genetics of the tree so it was resistant to some disease or could grow in some odd climate....And, you buy that tree and somehow clone and sell that genetic trait - you will be sued.,

#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.

Blah, blah, blah...see above...this is the same example with dogs.

#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.

Again, not the same thing. When you download music from a file sharing site, you are not destroying it and making something new.

You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

You draw the line when you are selling pirated material, or broadcasting it publicly. It's really that simple.

Hence my opinion that COPYRIGHT laws, sucks and are BS !

If you ever made a copy of an original cassette tape back in the day and sold the original at a garage sale, you sold pirated material. So as I said before, ALL OF US, minus parfait, as some point have copied/downloaded something illegaly.

[Monker]

To add a bit more twist to this.
Pirate bay doesn't copy or sell or even give out free music or software. They don't own a single file of what's being shared.
So should they be responsible for all the a actions of those who share/steal ?!

Monker is gonna jump in with " but they're enabeling it. "

The INTERNET is what's enabeling it


I support the musicians , Drewsky. You should know from me buy merchendise at your event.
I just don't agree with shutting down Pirate Bay. They have helped me decide what's good there to buy and what's junk that I delete and wouldve never bought if I known it was junk. with the cd store policy , where you can't return a CD if it's shitty then The Bay has been my helper.

I'm not going to say they are 'enabling it'. They are broadcasting it, which is illegal. That is how the law is being read right now.

[Behshad]

I knew Monker would jump in here and quote my post apart.


Here are few simple examples for you.


#1 You go to the farmer and buy a peach tree. Water it it grows and gives you many juicy fresh peaches.
But instead of eating them all , you take a dozen of the peach pits and grow a dozen of trees from them and start selling them to friends & family , hence affecting the farmers income.


#2 you buy a couple of dogs from the pet store. They mate , you get half a dozen of puppies and you sell them to friends and family. You make few bux that the pet store couldve made.


#3 you go to the grocery store and buy 30 lemons. Go home make 5 gallons of lemonade that ur kid sells to the neighbourhood. Stealing business from the grocery store.


You see my point MonkerBoy ?! None of the above is against the law , but with the copy rights laws they should be. Where do we draw the line ?!?!

And you can not tell me that you have neve ever copied anything illegally. You may be a decent debator but you're not a saint. And far from a Saint John.


Start quoting NOW.

Interesting angle, but in all these examples Beshad, SOMEONE got paid at the originating point.

With music downloading, neither the artist or the songwriter gets a cent. Ever.

Or, the record label, which is really who is driving the legality of it....Some artists don't care if their music is downloaded.

News Flash For MonkerBoy! Record label ( together with ticketmaster) are the biggest thieves in the industry !

[parfait]

Downloading from Pirate Bay is stealing, simple as that. You screw the people who've put in work and money into the product, just cause you're too cheap to spend 10 $ on a CD or whatever. Sure, it's convenient, but that's about it.

And the " Captain moron obvious " has arrived.

That's enough B.

Yes boss. I was just stating the obvious

Dude, seriously?

I never gave props to the pirates. What I did was state that there's underlying reasons for what they do; complex reasons. The only obvious thing here is that you're a thief and you try to explain why you're stealing with some stupid ass peach tree analogy.

And no one is perfect, B.

[Behshad]

To add a bit more twist to this.
Pirate bay doesn't copy or sell or even give out free music or software. They don't own a single file of what's being shared.
So should they be responsible for all the a actions of those who share/steal ?!

Monker is gonna jump in with " but they're enabeling it. "

The INTERNET is what's enabeling it


I support the musicians , Drewsky. You should know from me buy merchendise at your event.
I just don't agree with shutting down Pirate Bay. They have helped me decide what's good there to buy and what's junk that I delete and wouldve never bought if I known it was junk. with the cd store policy , where you can't return a CD if it's shitty then The Bay has been my helper.

I'm not going to say they are 'enabling it'. They are broadcasting it, which is illegal. That is how the law is being read right now.

hows the bay BROADCASTING anything !???

[S2M]

The FBI screen on DVDs state.....'even without MONETARY GAIN'....they dont want you copying shit. Doesn't matter. Program I use is based out of country, updates monthly, and can crack any encryption known to man...When will the powers that be realize that the people are smarter than the industry?

[Michigan Girl]

Downloading from Pirate Bay is stealing, simple as that. You screw the people who've put in work and money into the product, just cause you're too cheap to spend 10 $ on a CD or whatever. Sure, it's convenient, but that's about it.

Funny, this is the same way I feel about healthcare reform!!

[steveo777]

It seems Pirate Bay is back online. That didn't take long, considering.

I missed the first two seasons of the Sopranos.

[Behshad]

It seems Pirate Bay is back online. That didn't take long, considering.

I missed the first two seasons of the Sopranos.

Yeah it came back online 8 hours ago
I liked their blog message and it seemed like they moved the server just to avoid getting caught....

[Don]

Demonoid does the same thing. These sites should have their own extension category (for example, Demonoid.Lazarus) as they all seem to have the ability to rise from the dead, despite the global action taken to shut them down.

[Sarah]

I read an article in a Newsweek recently about how the Internet savvy generation has come to expect everything for free because of the early dot-com business models of "information wants to be free" coupled with the ease of getting things online.

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad. I generally don't seed torrents, though.


BTW the peach tree analogy is inaccurate because the original pirate doesn't sell the copies. So it'd be more like growing the peaches and then giving them away for free.

[Behshad]

I read an article in a Newsweek recently about how the Internet savvy generation has come to expect everything for free because of the early dot-com business models of "information wants to be free" coupled with the ease of getting things online.

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad. I generally don't seed torrents, though.


BTW the peach tree analogy is inaccurate because the original pirate doesn't sell the copies. So it'd be more like growing the peaches and then giving them away for free.

It is accurate cause the original Farmer, is like the artist/record label The Farmer wasnt the pirate ! (although Parfait says the Somalian Pirates are indeed Farmers )

[Ehwmatt]

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad.

I agree with you to a large extent regarding the prices they charge (see my earlier, long-ass post), but the second part "I'm poor, too bad, I'm gonna take anything I want for free" ? Eh, I dunno. That's about as proper as offering that excuse to refuse paying your rent or mortgage.

[parfait]

I read an article in a Newsweek recently about how the Internet savvy generation has come to expect everything for free because of the early dot-com business models of "information wants to be free" coupled with the ease of getting things online.

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad. I generally don't seed torrents, though.


BTW the peach tree analogy is inaccurate because the original pirate doesn't sell the copies. So it'd be more like growing the peaches and then giving them away for free.

It is accurate cause the original Farmer, is like the artist/record label The Farmer wasnt the pirate ! (although Parfait says the Somalian Pirates are indeed Farmers )

It's obvious that you don't even read my (or anyone with a different opinion than yourself) posts, so I'm just going to quote what I posted earlier. Hopefully you won't be too busy making up conspiracy theories or whatever you usually do.

Dude, seriously?

I never gave props to the pirates. What I did was state that there's underlying reasons for what they do; complex reasons. The only obvious thing here is that you're a thief and you try to explain why you're stealing with some stupid ass peach tree analogy.

And no one is perfect, B.

[steveo777]

I read an article in a Newsweek recently about how the Internet savvy generation has come to expect everything for free because of the early dot-com business models of "information wants to be free" coupled with the ease of getting things online.

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad. I generally don't seed torrents, though.


BTW the peach tree analogy is inaccurate because the original pirate doesn't sell the copies. So it'd be more like growing the peaches and then giving them away for free.

It is accurate cause the original Farmer, is like the artist/record label The Farmer wasnt the pirate ! (although Parfait says the Somalian Pirates are indeed Farmers )

Don't believe everything Parfait says, mmmmmmmkay?

[Don]

I read an article in a Newsweek recently about how the Internet savvy generation has come to expect everything for free because of the early dot-com business models of "information wants to be free" coupled with the ease of getting things online.

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad. I generally don't seed torrents, though.


BTW the peach tree analogy is inaccurate because the original pirate doesn't sell the copies. So it'd be more like growing the peaches and then giving them away for free.

Demonoid and Jamtothis wouldn't be for you then. They require you to maintain a favorable share ratio in order to download.

[Sarah]

I've personally got no qualms about getting stuff for free. Everyone just keeps their prices too high, and I'm poor, so too bad.

I agree with you to a large extent regarding the prices they charge (see my earlier, long-ass post), but the second part "I'm poor, too bad, I'm gonna take anything I want for free" ? Eh, I dunno. That's about as proper as offering that excuse to refuse paying your rent or mortgage.

Oh it's not right for sure. But I don't feel too bad about it.

It is accurate cause the original Farmer, is like the artist/record label The Farmer wasnt the pirate ! (although Parfait says the Somalian Pirates are indeed Farmers )

No, you misunderstand. I didn't say the farmer is the pirate. The person who bought the peach and planted it is the pirate. Here's how it would work in online piracy terms:

Farmer grows unique peaches and sells them. (record label sells music)
Customer buys a peach or is given a sample. (pirate acquires the music, whether buying it or getting a promo copy)
Customer grows a tree from the peach. (pirate creates a torrent)
Customer gives away harvest for free. (other pirates download the music, pirate receives *no monetary compensation* for their torrent)
Most of the people who get a free peach grow their own peaches and give them away as well. (other pirates seed torrent)

[Sarah]

I generally don't seed torrents, though.

Demonoid and Jamtothis wouldn't be for you then. They require you to maintain a favorable share ratio in order to download.

Demonoid doesn't.

The ratio system is purely statistical and somewhat innacurate for the ones with shared or dynamic ips. Besides what other users may think of you for not sharing, there is no punishment for having a low ratio.
http://www.demonoid.com/faq.php#st_4

[Monker]

I never gave props to the pirates. What I did was state that there's underlying reasons for what they do; complex reasons. The only obvious thing here is that you're a thief and you try to explain why you're stealing with some stupid ass peach tree analogy.

And no one is perfect, B.

LOL...that was a perfect reply!

[Monker]

[quote="Behshad]News Flash For MonkerBoy! Record label ( together with ticketmaster) are the biggest thieves in the industry ![/quote]

I didn't say labels were good guys.