60,000 copies...

[StevePerryHair]

...is all that is needed to return Justin Bieber back to the number one position on Billboard's album chart.

I feel sorry for today's youth. We were treated to #1 albums by the likes of some killer bands in the 80's suck as Journey, Van Halen, Styx, Ratt, Dokken, AC/DC, Ozzy, etc.. Today the kids get a fucking Justin Bieber. Someone please pass me the barf bag.

You forget we had Paula Abdul, Cyndi Lauper, madonna, The Bengals, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston, Wham, Culture Club, The Go-Go's, Lionel Richie, Huey Lewis...... and the list goes on and on and on with music that you are not including in the 80's genre that was more "popular" which is why it's "pop" music. I don't see how time has changed THAT much except that the newer rock music isn't as main stream as it seems to have been in the 80's. Some bands are, and I actually think its better now than it was 10 years ago. There are "rock" options out there for the youth and those interested in rock are finding it and listening.

>

Come on, Lynn. Michaels Jackson and Stevie Wonder is awesome. The music scene was way better in the 80's.

I like house and techno music when listening to it in a club or whatever, but the quality of music, the real musicianship, was better. No doubt about it.

I think you misunderstood! I didnt' have a problem with pop music at all. I was more of a "radio" listener back in the 80's and didn't really own too many albums. So I grew up loving the pop music and the rock music. I was more saying that some people here mention all the rock bands of the 80's like it was the only music that existed and EVERYONE was into it, when now it's all rap music. I disagree. I think there was a VERY mixed scene in the 80's that gets forgotten when people are posting on a "rock" message board.

[Ehwmatt]

...is all that is needed to return Justin Bieber back to the number one position on Billboard's album chart.

I feel sorry for today's youth. We were treated to #1 albums by the likes of some killer bands in the 80's suck as Journey, Van Halen, Styx, Ratt, Dokken, AC/DC, Ozzy, etc.. Today the kids get a fucking Justin Bieber. Someone please pass me the barf bag.

You forget we had Paula Abdul, Cyndi Lauper, madonna, The Bengals, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston, Wham, Culture Club, The Go-Go's, Lionel Richie, Huey Lewis...... and the list goes on and on and on with music that you are not including in the 80's genre that was more "popular" which is why it's "pop" music. I don't see how time has changed THAT much except that the newer rock music isn't as main stream as it seems to have been in the 80's. Some bands are, and I actually think its better now than it was 10 years ago. There are "rock" options out there for the youth and those interested in rock are finding it and listening.

There was some embarrassingly bad music to come out of the 80s, to be sure (although to be clear, most of those artists you mentioned are top notch).

Jimmy Fox from the James Gang (Joe Walsh's first band) said it best to me when I interviewed him for a story:

In the days when we were recording, good was good, and a band like The James Gang could co-exist with [funk-rock band] Sly & the Family Stone. The common link was good and whatever music that was ultimately chosen was performed well for its genre, which was very important. More importantly, it had some appeal to a broader base of people

Even though Van Halen and AC/DC had a very different sound from a Huey Lewis or a Michael Jackson, all of them had two things in common: Songs with GREAT hooks and GREAT musicianship for the genre from top to bottom. Pop to me is one of those words that has such a variety of both great and disparaging connotations. On one hand, you think of "Pop" like whatever's popular. On the second hand, you think of "Pop" like airy songs with good hooks but absolutely no lyrical substance or meaning or interesting chord progressions (arguably, many, many great songs can fall into this second category). On the third hand, pop in its purest definition consists of bands writing music with a classic form (intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-outro... something like that) in a concise and CATCHY 3-5 minute package. Sometimes a band can even fall into all three of those categories. It's not a band thing in and of itself to be considered "pop." Quite to the contrary, in my opinion.

Like Fox said, good music performed well will have generally have significant cross-appeal to fans of different genres. There are people out there who only like hard rock or only like AC type stuff, but arguably, "true" music fans will appreciate the craft in many different genres, provided the song's well-crafted and well-performed.

In short, the distinction between now and then is something deeper than just genre/sound-based "hard rock" vs "pop" vs "rap" or even "mainstream" vs "hardcore fan" type of distinctions. I think the dearth of true talent in the mainstream across genres is the big culprit today. Hell, as much as I don't get rap, even the rappers of yesteryear seemed to possess a lot more ingenuity and incorporated some type of organic instrumentation into their tracks.

[parfait]

...is all that is needed to return Justin Bieber back to the number one position on Billboard's album chart.

I feel sorry for today's youth. We were treated to #1 albums by the likes of some killer bands in the 80's suck as Journey, Van Halen, Styx, Ratt, Dokken, AC/DC, Ozzy, etc.. Today the kids get a fucking Justin Bieber. Someone please pass me the barf bag.

You forget we had Paula Abdul, Cyndi Lauper, madonna, The Bengals, Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Whitney Houston, Wham, Culture Club, The Go-Go's, Lionel Richie, Huey Lewis...... and the list goes on and on and on with music that you are not including in the 80's genre that was more "popular" which is why it's "pop" music. I don't see how time has changed THAT much except that the newer rock music isn't as main stream as it seems to have been in the 80's. Some bands are, and I actually think its better now than it was 10 years ago. There are "rock" options out there for the youth and those interested in rock are finding it and listening.

There was some embarrassingly bad music to come out of the 80s, to be sure (although to be clear, most of those artists you mentioned are top notch).

Jimmy Fox from the James Gang (Joe Walsh's first band) said it best to me when I interviewed him for a story:

In the days when we were recording, good was good, and a band like The James Gang could co-exist with [funk-rock band] Sly & the Family Stone. The common link was good and whatever music that was ultimately chosen was performed well for its genre, which was very important. More importantly, it had some appeal to a broader base of people

Even though Van Halen and AC/DC had a very different sound from a Huey Lewis or a Michael Jackson, all of them had two things in common: Songs with GREAT hooks and GREAT musicianship for the genre from top to bottom. Pop to me is one of those words that has such a variety of both great and disparaging connotations. On one hand, you think of "Pop" like whatever's popular. On the second hand, you think of "Pop" like airy songs with good hooks but absolutely no lyrical substance or meaning or interesting chord progressions (arguably, many, many great songs can fall into this second category). On the third hand, pop in its purest definition consists of bands writing music with a classic form (intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-outro... something like that) in a concise and CATCHY 3-5 minute package. Sometimes a band can even fall into all three of those categories. It's not a band thing in and of itself to be considered "pop." Quite to the contrary, in my opinion.

Like Fox said, good music performed well will have generally have significant cross-appeal to fans of different genres. There are people out there who only like hard rock or only like AC type stuff, but arguably, "true" music fans will appreciate the craft in many different genres, provided the song's well-crafted and well-performed.

In short, the distinction between now and then is something deeper than just genre/sound-based "hard rock" vs "pop" vs "rap" or even "mainstream" vs "hardcore fan" type of distinctions. I think the dearth of true talent in the mainstream across genres is the big culprit today. Hell, as much as I don't get rap, even the rappers of yesteryear seemed to possess a lot more ingenuity and incorporated some type of organic instrumentation into their tracks.

Dude, you're really posting some smart stuff today.

A lot of my friends gives me shit cause I listen to artists like Nina Simone and Otis Redding to French rap all the way to Dire Straits - so I agree with you; a real music fan doesn't just listen to one sort of music. One should avoid becoming one of those pretentious music know it alls though, cause those are a bunch of fags

[jrnyman28]

Top 40 used to mean the best songs of all genres, now it is it's own genre...

[Don]

Digital downloads is where it's at now. Katie Perry had over 200 thousand downloads of one song last week.

Glee had at least half a dozen songs in the top 40 for overall downloads.

Itunes and Amazon Music are making the category of Album sales less relevant as the downloading of individual tracks becomes the preferred method of obtaining music for most younger people .

[Tito]

Nowadays I pay attention to how long someone stays on the chart. That was one of the things I loved about Revelation and for me was a definition of success. They debuted, dropped a little and then stuck around for a couple months.

I'm very curious how sales of an all new (no bonus re-records + DVD) studio album will go. Will be interesting to say the least.

You'll never learn your lesson, will you?

[Michigan Girl]

Nowadays I pay attention to how long someone stays on the chart. That was one of the things I loved about Revelation and for me was a definition of success. They debuted, dropped a little and then stuck around for a couple months.

I'm very curious how sales of an all new (no bonus re-records + DVD) studio album will go. Will be interesting to say the least.

You'll never learn your lesson, will you?

You know good and well that the supporters are just as curious about this
as the non~supporters ...some of them would just never admit it out loud!! I'm curious!!

[Tito]

it was a great package, the band's management got the band exposure, 2 songs hit the AC chart, they toured like heck, and the band has a strong and loyal fanbase. Seems like all parties involved won ...

Absolutely. I'm not commenting to the negative at all. I am genuinely curious how this album will go - standing on it's own merits I guess - especially if it isn't as commercial. Looking forward to hearing it.
The Revelation package was fabulos value and yes, everyone won big time.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'M EVER GOING TO SAY THIS - The rerecords had NOTHING to do with the sales of that album! You realize the original Greatest Hits is still charting. Do you really think somebody bought the Greatest Hits and then Revelation because they had greatest hits (the rerecords) on them? The only thing Disc 2 did was skew the album sales (double counting). Beside that, it had no effect on units sold.

Furthermore, Foreigners album had remastered classics (but original recordings) as Disc 2 and it didn't fair as well as Journey. Had Journey done that, just remaster the original recordings, then you can make a case that Disc 2 helped.

[StevePerryHair]

it was a great package, the band's management got the band exposure, 2 songs hit the AC chart, they toured like heck, and the band has a strong and loyal fanbase. Seems like all parties involved won ...

Absolutely. I'm not commenting to the negative at all. I am genuinely curious how this album will go - standing on it's own merits I guess - especially if it isn't as commercial. Looking forward to hearing it.
The Revelation package was fabulos value and yes, everyone won big time.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'M EVER GOING TO SAY THIS -

Promise???

[Tito]

it was a great package, the band's management got the band exposure, 2 songs hit the AC chart, they toured like heck, and the band has a strong and loyal fanbase. Seems like all parties involved won ...

Absolutely. I'm not commenting to the negative at all. I am genuinely curious how this album will go - standing on it's own merits I guess - especially if it isn't as commercial. Looking forward to hearing it.
The Revelation package was fabulos value and yes, everyone won big time.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'M EVER GOING TO SAY THIS -

Promise???

YES!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely.

This is how I feel and hope what happens next year for Journey. The first 13 seconds sums it up. Substitute MR Journey fans for Cub Fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv23pqH9iG0. LANGUAGE so be careful at work.

[Saint John]

Andrew... you're not allowed to say anything about Arnel to Dan. Dan sleeps with Arnel pajamas on for crying out loud! He walked around my house with them on all weekend and really made me feel uncomfortable. Even my son goes "Dad... why is he wearing pajamas with a guys face all over them?".

Seriously though, Dan is OBSESSED with Arnel!

That wasn't Arnel, you idiot! It was George Takei!!!

[stevew2]

Andrew... you're not allowed to say anything about Arnel to Dan. Dan sleeps with Arnel pajamas on for crying out loud! He walked around my house with them on all weekend and really made me feel uncomfortable. Even my son goes "Dad... why is he wearing pajamas with a guys face all over them?".

Seriously though, Dan is OBSESSED with Arnel!

That wasn't Arnel, you idiot! It was George Takei!!!

You know he is gay

he is,he came out of the closet over a year ago,if sarge knew that, you ld would have been sleepin in his shed next the the plantoon and the new truck that he begged his wife for

[Andrew]

it was a great package, the band's management got the band exposure, 2 songs hit the AC chart, they toured like heck, and the band has a strong and loyal fanbase. Seems like all parties involved won ...

Absolutely. I'm not commenting to the negative at all. I am genuinely curious how this album will go - standing on it's own merits I guess - especially if it isn't as commercial. Looking forward to hearing it.
The Revelation package was fabulos value and yes, everyone won big time.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'M EVER GOING TO SAY THIS - The rerecords had NOTHING to do with the sales of that album!

Not entirely true. The 2CD/1DVD package at $12 helped amazingly. The quality of the all-originals disc also helped guarantee extended interest in the package. The new material was amazing, but at the same time, the band were riding a MASSIVE wave of publicity to do with Can't Stop This Song From Being Played Everywhere And Covered By Everyone Believin' and the whole Arnel story - which was a tremendous boost and a great read.

The thing I'm saying is that all those angles have now been exhausted and now the band is onto album number 2 with Arnel and it won't be a big cheap package (at least I don't believe it will be).

So the album and the material will have to live 100% on its own merits. I'm hoping the guys turn in a classic and the media and public continue to support the band.

It WILL be interesting!

[Don]

I think the band will play the Hard luck Arnel card one last time with this release, Provided Arnel's Documentary gets distributed to theaters, where non- fans MIGHT find an interest in it as a human interest story. If the Doc is a packin disc with the CD, I don't think it has a huge impact as it's not a concert DVD, and beyond the Filipino fans, most casual Journey fans have probably had enough of the Arnel story already.

I can see it going gold, but platinum might be a bit of a chore.

[Michigan Girl]

but at the same time, the band were riding a MASSIVE wave of publicity to do with Can't Stop This Song From Being Played Everywhere And Covered By Everyone Believin'

This is incredibly witty ...huge giggle!!

[jrnyman28]

Digital downloads is where it's at now. Katie Perry had over 200 thousand downloads of one song last week.

Glee had at least half a dozen songs in the top 40 for overall downloads.

Itunes and Amazon Music are making the category of Album sales less relevant as the downloading of individual tracks becomes the preferred method of obtaining music for most younger people .

iTunes and Amazon are capitalizing on the trend which already existed and pretty much started with Napster. The ability to pick and choose, and therefore only choose, the "good" music instead of paying for an over-priced disc full of crappy songs!!

[Since 78]

I think the band will play the Hard luck Arnel card one last time with this release, Provided Arnel's Documentary gets distributed to theaters, where non- fans MIGHT find an interest in it as a human interest story. If the Doc is a packin disc with the CD, I don't think it has a huge impact as it's not a concert DVD, and beyond the Filipino fans, most casual Journey fans have probably had enough of the Arnel story already.

I can see it going gold, but platinum might be a bit of a chore.

I hope not, I want to see how they do with a stand alone CD.

[Rick]

I think the band will play the Hard luck Arnel card one last time with this release, Provided Arnel's Documentary gets distributed to theaters, where non- fans MIGHT find an interest in it as a human interest story. If the Doc is a packin disc with the CD, I don't think it has a huge impact as it's not a concert DVD, and beyond the Filipino fans, most casual Journey fans have probably had enough of the Arnel story already.

I can see it going gold, but platinum might be a bit of a chore.

I hope not, I want to see how they do with a stand alone CD.

At this point, from what I've read, they don't care. They know the status of the music industry, and again from what I read, this album is for them. Doing what they want to do. I think/hope, for the hard core fans that don't hate the band in it's state today, it will be something fresh, new and great.

[Don]

I think the band will play the Hard luck Arnel card one last time with this release, Provided Arnel's Documentary gets distributed to theaters, where non- fans MIGHT find an interest in it as a human interest story. If the Doc is a packin disc with the CD, I don't think it has a huge impact as it's not a concert DVD, and beyond the Filipino fans, most casual Journey fans have probably had enough of the Arnel story already.

I can see it going gold, but platinum might be a bit of a chore.

I hope not, I want to see how they do with a stand alone CD.

At this point, from what I've read, they don't care. They know the status of the music industry, and again from what I read, this album is for them. Doing what they want to do. I think/hope, for the hard core fans that don't hate the band in it's state today, it will be something fresh, new and great.

I don't think Neal cares but I think Jon does, and I think that might explain why there was an itsy, bitsy, bit of tension in the studio as reported by Shirley.

[Rick]

I think the band will play the Hard luck Arnel card one last time with this release, Provided Arnel's Documentary gets distributed to theaters, where non- fans MIGHT find an interest in it as a human interest story. If the Doc is a packin disc with the CD, I don't think it has a huge impact as it's not a concert DVD, and beyond the Filipino fans, most casual Journey fans have probably had enough of the Arnel story already.

I can see it going gold, but platinum might be a bit of a chore.

I hope not, I want to see how they do with a stand alone CD.

At this point, from what I've read, they don't care. They know the status of the music industry, and again from what I read, this album is for them. Doing what they want to do. I think/hope, for the hard core fans that don't hate the band in it's state today, it will be something fresh, new and great.

I don't think Neal cares but I think Jon does, and I think that might explain why there was an itsy, bitsy, bit of tension in the studio as reported by Shirley.

I think you may very well be right. I hope that tension is where Jon wants ballads and Neal doesn't. I'm up to my friggin eyeballs in ballads from this band.

[Don]

They could have a deluxe disc, with all the ballads as bonus tracks, just for all those deep pocket fans who would pay extra for them.

[journey361]

A funny thing that hits home for me is untill last year is the emergence of one Adam Lambert. I do believe his run and American Idol will go down as a legendary run in American Idol history. I was never really a AI fan and never watched it untill i heard of Lambert. I have not felt there was or is any over the top, flat out technically skilled vocalist out there period now and in recent memory.
I started reading about his run in terms of how he became a singer in all areas technically and his journey before and now. His vocal coaches and instruckters have made comments concerning his younger years and younger, they felt he had more than 3 octaves. Then i found out he has had four octaves since the early 2000's. What that really means in basketball terms is now pas a rofessional singer, he has a inside game and an outside game and can shoot off the dribble as well. He waited till he was 26 to try out for AI, saying if he did not wait like he did, he would have flat out choked under pressure. He said it's hard to shoot the ball when your hands are around your neck. I mean, this guy has it all and when i compare him to others past or present, he wins in every fricken area, period. His vocals with slash could have been a fricken monster CD but he went the label route with eletric/pop because there the ones signing his checks/lol. And some of those slan up tempo tracks ain't easy to sing, for pop, he might be the best out there. His run to vocal stardum, nor stardum, is downright different and out of the box. He's who kids should pattern their upbringing over, his vocals haven't even been let out of the cage yet.