collateralmurder.com

[Behshad]

This has been all over the news, but I couldnt find any thread about it.Disturbing indeed.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

[bluejeangirl76]

Website won't load... pulled? Or maybe too much traffic.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/w ... TKv5OD0RyJ

[G.I.Jim]

I can't get into it, so just give me a brief description dammit!

[Behshad]

I can't get into it, so just give me a brief description dammit!

The link BJG posted works, so does the one I posted.... Here's a YouTube version for you YouTubeJunky-You!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU ... r_embedded

[G.I.Jim]

I can't get into it, so just give me a brief description dammit!

The link BJG posted works, so does the one I posted.... Here's a YouTube version for you YouTubeJunky-You!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU ... r_embedded

I can't get into youtube from here you pickle biter!

[Monker]

This has been all over the news, but I couldnt find any thread about it.Disturbing indeed.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Haven't seen the news stories...But, just from the Youtube video, the gunship was called in to engage some small arms fire. They found some people with AK-47's (which you could I plainly see) and an RPG (which was partially obscured...so I can't say if it was or wasn't...but I'm no expert) and took them out. A van came in to 'help' the guy who crawling around...not too smart...so they took out the van. They then took out a building hiding others with AK-47's...which they showed one person who supposedly went in. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him actually go in the building.

I don't know what people expect Iraq to be like...if enemy arms are being fired and people are found with automatic rifles and RPG's, are we saying we should ask them for ID"s or something before they engage them and take them out? It's war and the people they are fighting don't go about in 'soldier' clothes to identify themselves.

I don't see a problem with what happened here. It's war. If the US can't stomach activity like what is on this video then why are we even there?

[Behshad]

This has been all over the news, but I couldnt find any thread about it.Disturbing indeed.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Haven't seen the news stories...But, just from the Youtube video, the gunship was called in to engage some small arms fire. They found some people with AK-47's (which you could I plainly see) and an RPG (which was partially obscured...so I can't say if it was or wasn't...but I'm no expert) and took them out. A van came in to 'help' the guy who crawling around...not too smart...so they took out the van. They then took out a building hiding others with AK-47's...which they showed one person who supposedly went in. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him actually go in the building.

I don't know what people expect Iraq to be like...if enemy arms are being fired and people are found with automatic rifles and RPG's, are we saying we should ask them for ID"s or something before they engage them and take them out? It's war and the people they are fighting don't go about in 'soldier' clothes to identify themselves.

I don't see a problem with what happened here. It's war. If the US can't stomach activity like what is on this video then why are we even there?

Thats a load of crap. Of course I wouldnt expect any less from a moron like yourself.

First of all, there was only ONE guy with a weapon in his hand. The other ones you saw were the reporters equipment.

Second, if you watch and listen to these guys you could tell they think this is a fucking videogame, not real human lives involved. Huge difference between shooting and killing at BATTLEFIELD , than just laughing and killing people, knowing that most of them were unarmed and NO threat in the so called war (which they see as INVASION not WAR)

Last but not least, I dont see any of the guys in the van, picking up dead bodies and helping an injured REPORTER as a threat to be shot like that. There were kids in that van also.

[S2M]

This has been all over the news, but I couldnt find any thread about it.Disturbing indeed.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Haven't seen the news stories...But, just from the Youtube video, the gunship was called in to engage some small arms fire. They found some people with AK-47's (which you could I plainly see) and an RPG (which was partially obscured...so I can't say if it was or wasn't...but I'm no expert) and took them out. A van came in to 'help' the guy who crawling around...not too smart...so they took out the van. They then took out a building hiding others with AK-47's...which they showed one person who supposedly went in. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him actually go in the building.

I don't know what people expect Iraq to be like...if enemy arms are being fired and people are found with automatic rifles and RPG's, are we saying we should ask them for ID"s or something before they engage them and take them out? It's war and the people they are fighting don't go about in 'soldier' clothes to identify themselves.

I don't see a problem with what happened here. It's war. If the US can't stomach activity like what is on this video then why are we even there?

Thats a load of crap. Of course I wouldnt expect any less from a moron like yourself.

First of all, there was only ONE guy with a weapon in his hand. The other ones you saw were the reporters equipment.

Second, if you watch and listen to these guys you could tell they think this is a fucking videogame, not real human lives involved. Huge difference between shooting and killing at BATTLEFIELD , than just laughing and killing people, knowing that most of them were unarmed and NO threat in the so called war (which they see as INVASION not WAR)

Last but not least, I dont see any of the guys in the van, picking up dead bodies and helping an injured REPORTER as a threat to be shot like that. There were kids in that van also.

Tru dat..Tru dat. That one guy was just standing near that doorway, bowing to whomever entered. If you listen closely you could hear ever so faintly, 'Good evening'. Strange things were afoot at the Circle K, my friend. Strange things indeed....

[Don]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

[Behshad]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

I get what youre saying. If they feel the threat of being shot down, sure they have to worry about their own survival.... but whats disturbing is after they clear out the area, they shoot the people that come to pick up the dead bodies,,, when they couldve simply let them collect those bodies and move on.

[Monker]

This has been all over the news, but I couldnt find any thread about it.Disturbing indeed.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Haven't seen the news stories...But, just from the Youtube video, the gunship was called in to engage some small arms fire. They found some people with AK-47's (which you could I plainly see) and an RPG (which was partially obscured...so I can't say if it was or wasn't...but I'm no expert) and took them out. A van came in to 'help' the guy who crawling around...not too smart...so they took out the van. They then took out a building hiding others with AK-47's...which they showed one person who supposedly went in. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him actually go in the building.

I don't know what people expect Iraq to be like...if enemy arms are being fired and people are found with automatic rifles and RPG's, are we saying we should ask them for ID"s or something before they engage them and take them out? It's war and the people they are fighting don't go about in 'soldier' clothes to identify themselves.

I don't see a problem with what happened here. It's war. If the US can't stomach activity like what is on this video then why are we even there?

Thats a load of crap. Of course I wouldnt expect any less from a moron like yourself.

First of all, there was only ONE guy with a weapon in his hand. The other ones you saw were the reporters equipment.

Second, if you watch and listen to these guys you could tell they think this is a fucking videogame, not real human lives involved. Huge difference between shooting and killing at BATTLEFIELD , than just laughing and killing people, knowing that most of them were unarmed and NO threat in the so called war (which they see as INVASION not WAR)

Last but not least, I dont see any of the guys in the van, picking up dead bodies and helping an injured REPORTER as a threat to be shot like that. There were kids in that van also.

You're wrong. I have not read any of the stories, and don't care to. You obviously have. If I were in that gunship, I'd shoot too. Not sure about the building they blew up...not enough, IMO.

Again, if the US can not stomach stuff like this, we should not be there....cuz I'm sure it happens ALL THE TIME.

[Monker]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

I get what youre saying. If they feel the threat of being shot down, sure they have to worry about their own survival.... but whats disturbing is after they clear out the area, they shoot the people that come to pick up the dead bodies,,, when they couldve simply let them collect those bodies and move on.

If you listen, the bodies are not what they are worried about. They are worried about the guns.

[Behshad]

This has been all over the news, but I couldnt find any thread about it.Disturbing indeed.

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Haven't seen the news stories...But, just from the Youtube video, the gunship was called in to engage some small arms fire. They found some people with AK-47's (which you could I plainly see) and an RPG (which was partially obscured...so I can't say if it was or wasn't...but I'm no expert) and took them out. A van came in to 'help' the guy who crawling around...not too smart...so they took out the van. They then took out a building hiding others with AK-47's...which they showed one person who supposedly went in. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see him actually go in the building.

I don't know what people expect Iraq to be like...if enemy arms are being fired and people are found with automatic rifles and RPG's, are we saying we should ask them for ID"s or something before they engage them and take them out? It's war and the people they are fighting don't go about in 'soldier' clothes to identify themselves.

I don't see a problem with what happened here. It's war. If the US can't stomach activity like what is on this video then why are we even there?

Thats a load of crap. Of course I wouldnt expect any less from a moron like yourself.

First of all, there was only ONE guy with a weapon in his hand. The other ones you saw were the reporters equipment.

Second, if you watch and listen to these guys you could tell they think this is a fucking videogame, not real human lives involved. Huge difference between shooting and killing at BATTLEFIELD , than just laughing and killing people, knowing that most of them were unarmed and NO threat in the so called war (which they see as INVASION not WAR)

Last but not least, I dont see any of the guys in the van, picking up dead bodies and helping an injured REPORTER as a threat to be shot like that. There were kids in that van also.

You're wrong. I have not read any of the stories, and don't care to. You obviously have. If I were in that gunship, I'd shoot too. Not sure about the building they blew up...not enough, IMO.

Again, if the US can not stomach stuff like this, we should not be there....cuz I'm sure it happens ALL THE TIME.

It's not about US stomaching it. It's these killings of innocent people that causes the never ending hatred back and forth and leads into something like 9/11.

[Behshad]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

I get what youre saying. If they feel the threat of being shot down, sure they have to worry about their own survival.... but whats disturbing is after they clear out the area, they shoot the people that come to pick up the dead bodies,,, when they couldve simply let them collect those bodies and move on.

If you listen, the bodies are not what they are worried about. They are worried about the guns.

if YOU listen , they're hoping that the injured reporter picks up his camera bag , so they can shoot him and those helping him.

[Saint John]

I didn't see anything that broke "The Rules of Engagement" policy. As for the reporters, that was indeed tragic, but you should not be anywhere near war, let alone walking along side men armed with AK-47s and RPG launchers to get a fucking story and a few pictures. Watch the full video ... there is clearly a guy with an RPG and another man armed. It's also helpful knowing this, as it puts some context that this area has been extremely hostile:

What's helpful to understand is that, contrary to some interpretations that this was an attack on some people walking down the street on a nice day, the day was anyting but that. It happened in the midst of a large operation to clear an area where US soldiers had been getting shot at, injured, and killed with increasing frequency. What the Reuters guys walked into was the very worst part, where the morning had been a series of RPG attacks and running gun battles.

[G.I.Jim]

I didn't see anything that broke "The Rules of Engagement" policy. As for the reporters, that was indeed tragic, but you should not be anywhere near war, let alone walking along side men armed with AK-47s and RPG launchers to get a fucking story and a few pictures. Watch the full video ... there is clearly a guy with an RPG and another man armed. It's also helpful knowing this, as it puts some context that this area has been extremely hostile:

What's helpful to understand is that, contrary to some interpretations that this was an attack on some people walking down the street on a nice day, the day was anyting but that. It happened in the midst of a large operation to clear an area where US soldiers had been getting shot at, injured, and killed with increasing frequency. What the Reuters guys walked into was the very worst part, where the morning had been a series of RPG attacks and running gun battles.

I agree 100% Dan. They weren't just opening fire on unarmed, innocent civilians. Many of them may have been innocent, but they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel terrible for the two kids too, but parents that bring children into the middle of battle are fucking retarded. The soldiers over there see more shit than we could ever imagine. They get shot at on a continual basis, and see things that they'll never forget.

The soldiers may seem over the top with the laughing, but you have to take a few things into consideration...

1. These guys get shot at DAILY by people who look just like everyone else. Many times they also have children do their dirty work against us.

2. These soldiers have seen many of their friends killed or maimed over there right next to them, and have to explain to their families why mommy and daddy aren't coming home.

3. After seeing so much death and violence, they get used to it (well as used to it as you'd ever get).

4. They're scared, and want to get home alive. When they see a threat, they HAVE to act on it. If they don't, 9 times out of ten... it's NOT something innocent going on.

5. A lot of times, soldiers cope with the stress of war with laughter. I've seen people in shock after serious car accidents, and they were laughing. It's just how some people cope with stress. While it may sound like that soldier was having a good time, I promise you that that day will haunt him for the rest of his life.


War is not pretty. Never has been, and never will be in the future. I've seen tons of videos like these, and they happen all the time. It's part of war. We're not over there to hand out lollipops to the enemy. Most people don't want, or NEED to see this kind of thing, but thank God we have people that can stomach it. If not, we wouldn't be here right now.

Like going to the grocery store... Nobody wants to see cattle butchered, but they sure don't mind seeing a steak on their plate. I hate war, but it is a necessity for our survival. Should we be in THIS war? I used to believe so, but not so much now. Those guys are doing things that nobody else wants to, and they deserve our upmost respect. Like everyone else... they're human too, and just want to get back home to their families.

I'm done now. Sorry, but this topic is very near and dear to my heart

[Saint John]

5. A lot of times, soldiers cope with the stress of war with laughter. I've seen people in shock after serious car accidents, and they were laughing. It's just how some people cope with stress. While it may sound like that soldier was having a good time, I promise you that that day will haunt him for the rest of his life.

David Finkel of The Washington Post:

David Finkel: "... I remain in touch with many of the soldiers from that battalion, including one who picked up and held one of the wounded children, and he has been having a difficult time ever since he made the discovery. I won' go into details without his permission, but I can assure you that in his case he is haunted."
_______________________

[Monker]

It's not about US stomaching it.

Yes it is. War is about death and killing. From the beginning this country has been shielded from both the killing and the death that occurs in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It's these killings of innocent people that causes the never ending hatred back and forth and leads into something like 9/11.

So, we should send our gunships out to Iraq and load them so a sprinkling of flowers come down on the enemy. Makes perfect sense. If the US does not like to see death in a war zone, then the US should not be there.

9/11 is an over-used card. The entire Iraq war was a mistake, IMO...and continues to be to this day. If we did not have a volunteer military, we would not be there. If we were allowed to see all of the scenes like this, from the beginning, we would not be there today. If this country had to experience and live the daily sacrifice of our armed forces, we would not be there. Iraq has been a war that the military and politicians experienced but the country as a whole has not...at least not like it has in the past.

[Monker]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

I get what youre saying. If they feel the threat of being shot down, sure they have to worry about their own survival.... but whats disturbing is after they clear out the area, they shoot the people that come to pick up the dead bodies,,, when they couldve simply let them collect those bodies and move on.

If you listen, the bodies are not what they are worried about. They are worried about the guns.

if YOU listen , they're hoping that the injured reporter picks up his camera bag , so they can shoot him and those helping him.

No, he is saying, "Go for a weapon..." not "Go for your camera bag." When the van came they were worried about the gathering of weapons.

You are seeing this through the perspective of what you read in the press...not from the perspective of the people in the gunship.

[Behshad]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

I get what youre saying. If they feel the threat of being shot down, sure they have to worry about their own survival.... but whats disturbing is after they clear out the area, they shoot the people that come to pick up the dead bodies,,, when they couldve simply let them collect those bodies and move on.

If you listen, the bodies are not what they are worried about. They are worried about the guns.

if YOU listen , they're hoping that the injured reporter picks up his camera bag , so they can shoot him and those helping him.

No, he is saying, "Go for a weapon..." not "Go for your camera bag." When the van came they were worried about the gathering of weapons.

You are seeing this through the perspective of what you read in the press...not from the perspective of the people in the gunship.

YOU are the one seeing this from one perspective only. Up in the air in the chopper. If you could put yourself in any of those guys shoes on the ground maybe you could fathom what I'm seeing cause I've been there.
You would see people who don't want a war , people who where forced into a war only cause they had a dictator leader and their country has oil. They thought we were helping them get rid of that dictator and helping the FREE their country , not destroying it and shoot at them from above any chance we get under the name of war.
I'm seeing this through the perspective of someone who's seen war and been there first hand.
I see this as a country being INVADED and DESTROYED under the fake name of " Operation Iraqi Freedom".

If you see these guys walking around there with guns like that it's cause of what WE started there.

Yes , Saddam was a dictator and would kill many who didn't agre with him. But at least the roads and streets and homes and neighbourhoods were SAFE.
You didn't fear going to get milk and risk getting shot either by the guys with guns on the ground or from a chopper in the air.

It's easy for Dan to ramble on with his one sides narrowminded crap. But had he been in the midst of battlefield then surely he would understand this better. This war was and is wrong. But it's easier to scream hell yeah from 5000 miles away from the action and not invest anything into it.


And clearly , even if at war , there ARE rules of engagemant as much as rule of trying to avoid war criminality at all cost and focus on the objective of your mission and try to avoid killing or injuring civilians at all cost.
and FYI the guys were yelling to him to grab the weapon but they damn well knew it was his camera bag.


And Jimbo. There is a HUGE difference between the laughter caused by shock and a laughter of kids thinking this is Call Of Duty 5 !

[Monker]

This is what war involves, it not a pretty business. We went through these scenarios all the time in Somalia. You can't pick and choose between who's who in such a small conflict parameter. When up in a Copter, the thought process was always "When in doubt, if it's black, attack." if you hesitate, chances are you are going down from an RPG. Either way someone is going to die so the object is not to be that person, whether the other might be combatant, civilian, cat , dog, or whatever.
Playing a video game like Call Of Duty might make it seem simple to differentiate between whats what but in a real environment, it's not that way at all.
Am I justifying anything here, no. People do die every day though and most of the time it is not fair. However, if you are around any one that shoots at a flying object, it's safe to say you are fucked. If the chopper goes down because of ground fire, the people on board it are going to die so the crew is not going to let that happen. Whether they're called murders, heroes, martyrs or whatever,the pilot and his guys aren't going to be thinking about that at that particular moment. When the Aircrew starts the day, the only goal they have to achieve above all other objectives in their own mind is to stay alive. If they touch down safely at the end of the day, they have achieved that and will worry about the means to the end in their own personal way.

I get what youre saying. If they feel the threat of being shot down, sure they have to worry about their own survival.... but whats disturbing is after they clear out the area, they shoot the people that come to pick up the dead bodies,,, when they couldve simply let them collect those bodies and move on.

If you listen, the bodies are not what they are worried about. They are worried about the guns.

if YOU listen , they're hoping that the injured reporter picks up his camera bag , so they can shoot him and those helping him.

No, he is saying, "Go for a weapon..." not "Go for your camera bag." When the van came they were worried about the gathering of weapons.

You are seeing this through the perspective of what you read in the press...not from the perspective of the people in the gunship.

YOU are the one seeing this from one perspective only. Up in the air in the chopper. If you could put yourself in any of those guys shoes on the ground maybe you could fathom what I'm seeing cause I've been there.
You would see people who don't want a war , people who where forced into a war only cause they had a dictator leader and their country has oil. They thought we were helping them get rid of that dictator and helping the FREE their country , not destroying it and shoot at them from above any chance we get under the name of war.
I'm seeing this through the perspective of someone who's seen war and been there first hand.
I see this as a country being INVADED and DESTROYED under the fake name of " Operation Iraqi Freedom".

If you see these guys walking around there with guns like that it's cause of what WE started there.

Yes , Saddam was a dictator and would kill many who didn't agre with him. But at least the roads and streets and homes and neighbourhoods were SAFE.
You didn't fear going to get milk and risk getting shot either by the guys with guns on the ground or from a chopper in the air.

It's easy for Dan to ramble on with his one sides narrowminded crap. But had he been in the midst of battlefield then surely he would understand this better. This war was and is wrong. But it's easier to scream hell yeah from 5000 miles away from the action and not invest anything into it.


And clearly , even if at war , there ARE rules of engagemant as much as rule of trying to avoid war criminality at all cost and focus on the objective of your mission and try to avoid killing or injuring civilians at all cost.
and FYI the guys were yelling to him to grab the weapon but they damn well knew it was his camera bag.


And Jimbo. There is a HUGE difference between the laughter caused by shock and a laughter of kids thinking this is Call Of Duty 5 !

Yes, I am looking at this from the perspective of the people being accused of "killing civilians". If I am in their shoes, I would not act any differently. Again, if we (the US as a whole) do not want these things to happen, we should not be there. If we are going to allow our military to engage enemies, it is absolutely ridiculous to ask every threat to "prove" they are not 'civilians'.

And, one more thing, about COD. This is absolutely NOT like COD. I love COD and own the last three releases and have played them often. It's a great game...the best multiplayer shooter I have ever played. It is absurd to compare how one acts in a real life scenario to how one acts while playing a game. When you get shot in a game, you don't 'die', you respawn or wait until the next round. If the guy with an AK-47 shoots the pilot of the gunship, everybody dies...forever. Perhaps in the next COD game they can have civilians walking about trying to avoid being shot...and people who look like civilians ready to kill you on sight...and when you die you can never play the game again. That would make for a realistic but very lame game though.