Sharia law here in Michigan. Unbelievable

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Postby Saint John » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:47 am

BobbyinTN wrote:I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell


It would probably be a lot more productive on your part to educate a few fellow fags on these stats:

However, AIDS is by far most common among the homosexual population in the United States, primarily because the type and frequency of sexual contact, combined with STDs, is the perfect method of spreading a body-fluid borne virus.

Public health records demonstrate that homosexuals, representing 2 percent of America's population, suffer vastly disproportionate percentages of several of America's most serious STDs, with incidences among homosexuals of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis A and B, cytomegalovirus, shigellosis, giardiasis, amoebic bowel disease and herpes far exceeding their presence in the general population. These are due to common homosexual practices that include fellatio, anilingus, digital stimulation of the rectum and ingestion of urine and feces.

An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year. The same study indicated the number of annual sexual partners averaged nearly 100. Homosexuals averaged, per year, fellating 106 different men and swallowing 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and 72 penile penetrations of the anus. (Corey, L, and Holmes, K.K., "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men," New England Journal of Medicine, 1980, vol 302: 435-438; as quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

A study by McKusick, et al., of 655 San Francisco homosexuals reported that only 24 percent of the sample claimed to have been "monogamous" during the past year, and of this 24 percent, 5 percent drank urine, 7 percent engag-ed in sex involving insertion of a fist in their rectums, 33 percent ingested feces, 53 percent swallowed semen and 59 percent received semen in their rectums in the month just previous to the survey ("AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported by Homosexual Men in San Francisco," American Journal of Public Health, December 1985, 75: 493-496; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

Lesbians show similar patterns of high venereal disease incidence relative to the general population. They are 19 times more likely to have had syphilis, twice as likely to have had genital warts, four times as likely to have had scabies, seven times more likely to have had infection from vaginal contact, 29 times more likely to have had oral infection from vaginal contact and 12 times more likely to have had an oral infection from penile contact ("Medical Aspects of Homosexuality," Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, 1985, Jaffe and Keewhan, et al.; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

AIDS research by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had more than 500 different sexual partners in a lifetime. Considered by themselves, the AIDS victims in this study averaged more than 1,100 lifetime sexual partners. Some reported as many as 20,000. Studies reported by A-P. Bell, M.S. Weinberg and S.K. Hammersmith in the book "Sexual Preference" (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1981) indicated that only 3 percent of homosexuals had fewer than 10 lifetime sexual partners. Only about 2 percent could be classified as either monogamous or semi-monogamous (from "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

To the present time, 75 to 85 percent of AIDS cases reported are related to homosexual activity, promiscuous heterosexual sex and IV drug abuse. AIDS stubbornly refuses to spread into the population in general, even 20 years after its discovery, despite dire warnings to the contrary.

Last edited by Saint John on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Don » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:54 am

You know, you could have summarized that in just three words.

God hates gays.
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Postby Saint John » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:57 am

Don wrote:You know, you could have summarized that in just three words.

God hates gays.


I didn't want to steal your thunder. :lol:
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Postby Since 78 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:59 am

Don wrote:You know, you could have summarized that in just three words.

God hates gays.


I don't think he said that.... but Bobby is a walking or at least talking contradiction. That said, a little TMI SJ.
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Postby Don » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:01 am

NEEVVVVVEEEERRRRR!!!!
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Postby Since 78 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:05 am

Don wrote:NEEVVVVVEEEERRRRR!!!!


Actually it was Never ever!
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Postby Michigan Girl » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:39 pm

Ehwmatt wrote:
BobbyinTN wrote:I gays went to a church parade and disrupted, that would be wrong. I think protesting abortion clinics is wrong, if you don't believe in abortion don't have one.


I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell, literally and show them what it's like to have their lives questioned and judged.


There is simply zero logical consistency in these statements Bobby. You can't have it both ways. It's either a fundamental right to picket/protest/assemble peacefully or it's not. Again, you can't have it both ways.You wouldn't catch me dead picketing any cause, and I'm certainly not an apathetic person when it comes to beliefs. I have better ways to spend my time. But still, you need to respect the process, not the result. That means accepting some things you don't like.
I've obviously misunderstood the entire concept of this thread, but this is what I thought!! :? :wink:
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Postby Arianddu » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:01 pm

Michigan Girl wrote:
Arianddu wrote:MG, the whole point about this is that it isn't about Sharia law, no matter what Joe and/or this group wants to claim. Whether or not it's an injustice that police officers got involved, whether or not it is a reasonable law or a violation of civil rights, it has nothing to do with Sharia law. Nothing at all. Which is the issue - a group of people are highlighting what might well be a very unfair and unreasonable law, but their claims about it being caused by muslim beliefs is total and utter bullshit, and to state otherwise is just daft.

Muslims aren't stealing anyone's civil rights, nor are they somehow perverting US Law into a reflection of Sharia Law, and it's inflamatory crap to say that this is the case. That's the bottom line here, not whether or not someone's civil rights are being abused - that's a very different story.
Perhaps someone can explain Sharia LAW?!? All I seem to know is that Muslims agree on the Sharia
about as much as Christians agree on Biblical perspectives. The people in the vid, Christians, were trying to pass out pamphlets
about Christianity to a group of Sharia believing Muslims and they were arrested, right?!?! :?
I understood it as ... Sharia trumps Christianity in the minds of the Christian Americans who were stripped of their
rights, in their own country, and thrown in the slammer ...what do you call that law?!?! I'm American and
I don't know?!?! *seriously twisted face*


I think it's pretty crappy, but it has *nothing* to do with the religious beliefs of muslims. If they were Christians handing out religious literature at a LGBT event who got arrested, would it be the fault of gay men? Or if they were handing out pamphlets at a rock concert and got arrested, does that mean the law exists because of some agenda of rock musicians and fans? Of course not - it's a stupid law, but it has nothing to do with the people they were giving the literature to.

Read the title of this thread. Argue that the law under which they were arrested is wrong, by all means, but don't imply or claim that the law exists because of muslim beliefs.
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Postby G.I.Jim » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:05 pm

Saint John wrote:
BobbyinTN wrote:I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell


It would probably be a lot more productive on your part to educate a few fellow fags on these stats:

However, AIDS is by far most common among the homosexual population in the United States, primarily because the type and frequency of sexual contact, combined with STDs, is the perfect method of spreading a body-fluid borne virus.

Public health records demonstrate that homosexuals, representing 2 percent of America's population, suffer vastly disproportionate percentages of several of America's most serious STDs, with incidences among homosexuals of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis A and B, cytomegalovirus, shigellosis, giardiasis, amoebic bowel disease and herpes far exceeding their presence in the general population. These are due to common homosexual practices that include fellatio, anilingus, digital stimulation of the rectum and ingestion of urine and feces.

An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year. The same study indicated the number of annual sexual partners averaged nearly 100. Homosexuals averaged, per year, fellating 106 different men and swallowing 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and 72 penile penetrations of the anus. (Corey, L, and Holmes, K.K., "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men," New England Journal of Medicine, 1980, vol 302: 435-438; as quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

A study by McKusick, et al., of 655 San Francisco homosexuals reported that only 24 percent of the sample claimed to have been "monogamous" during the past year, and of this 24 percent, 5 percent drank urine, 7 percent engag-ed in sex involving insertion of a fist in their rectums, 33 percent ingested feces, 53 percent swallowed semen and 59 percent received semen in their rectums in the month just previous to the survey ("AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported by Homosexual Men in San Francisco," American Journal of Public Health, December 1985, 75: 493-496; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

Lesbians show similar patterns of high venereal disease incidence relative to the general population. They are 19 times more likely to have had syphilis, twice as likely to have had genital warts, four times as likely to have had scabies, seven times more likely to have had infection from vaginal contact, 29 times more likely to have had oral infection from vaginal contact and 12 times more likely to have had an oral infection from penile contact ("Medical Aspects of Homosexuality," Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, 1985, Jaffe and Keewhan, et al.; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

AIDS research by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had more than 500 different sexual partners in a lifetime. Considered by themselves, the AIDS victims in this study averaged more than 1,100 lifetime sexual partners. Some reported as many as 20,000. Studies reported by A-P. Bell, M.S. Weinberg and S.K. Hammersmith in the book "Sexual Preference" (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1981) indicated that only 3 percent of homosexuals had fewer than 10 lifetime sexual partners. Only about 2 percent could be classified as either monogamous or semi-monogamous (from "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

To the present time, 75 to 85 percent of AIDS cases reported are related to homosexual activity, promiscuous heterosexual sex and IV drug abuse. AIDS stubbornly refuses to spread into the population in general, even 20 years after its discovery, despite dire warnings to the contrary.



NICE! :lol: :lol: Who hasn't done that 100 times? :roll: :lol:
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Postby artist4perry » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:31 pm

S.J................TMI! LA! LA! LA! I just don't need that detailed of a description thank you very much! :shock: :shock:

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Postby Michigan Girl » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:39 pm

Arianddu wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
Arianddu wrote:MG, the whole point about this is that it isn't about Sharia law, no matter what Joe and/or this group wants to claim. Whether or not it's an injustice that police officers got involved, whether or not it is a reasonable law or a violation of civil rights, it has nothing to do with Sharia law. Nothing at all. Which is the issue - a group of people are highlighting what might well be a very unfair and unreasonable law, but their claims about it being caused by muslim beliefs is total and utter bullshit, and to state otherwise is just daft.

Muslims aren't stealing anyone's civil rights, nor are they somehow perverting US Law into a reflection of Sharia Law, and it's inflamatory crap to say that this is the case. That's the bottom line here, not whether or not someone's civil rights are being abused - that's a very different story.
Perhaps someone can explain Sharia LAW?!? All I seem to know is that Muslims agree on the Sharia
about as much as Christians agree on Biblical perspectives. The people in the vid, Christians, were trying to pass out pamphlets
about Christianity to a group of Sharia believing Muslims and they were arrested, right?!?! :?
I understood it as ... Sharia trumps Christianity in the minds of the Christian Americans who were stripped of their
rights, in their own country, and thrown in the slammer ...what do you call that law?!?! I'm American and
I don't know?!?! *seriously twisted face*


I think it's pretty crappy, but it has *nothing* to do with the religious beliefs of muslims. If they were Christians handing out religious literature at a LGBT event who got arrested, would it be the fault of gay men? Or if they were handing out pamphlets at a rock concert and got arrested, does that mean the law exists because of some agenda of rock musicians and fans? Of course not - it's a stupid law, but it has nothing to do with the people they were giving the literature to.

Read the title of this thread. Argue that the law under which they were arrested is wrong, by all means, but don't imply or claim that the law exists because of muslim beliefs.
Makes perfect sense ^^^!! The title ...ha ha, once you watch the video, you forget about that!!
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Postby Sarah » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:25 am

Jana wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Jim, most of my male friends in music school were gay.

And a majority of them came from stable, loving households.

You're a great guy but I don't agree with you on this one, at all.


Bet you this surprises you...but I don't agree with him either...

It's GENETIC...more than environmental...

Of course there are the 2% that just get ummm...sucked...into it! :wink: :lol:


So true. I can't believe someone of Jim's age believes that it's not for the most part genetic. It shocks me. I have gay friends and they all came from great families and are all well-grounded. They were born that way and they have discussed it.

LOL your description of the 2 percent. :lol:

Put in another anecdotal experience from me... I have gay friends who had terrible families and gay friends who come from great families. I'm sure there are SOME people who can be abused into being gay, but for the majority, it's not a choice or a product of mental harm.

I'm confident that in 50 years, gay marriage will be legal. Younger generations are more and more accepting.
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Postby BobbyinTN » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:09 am

Saint John wrote:
BobbyinTN wrote:I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell


It would probably be a lot more productive on your part to educate a few fellow fags on these stats:

However, AIDS is by far most common among the homosexual population in the United States, primarily because the type and frequency of sexual contact, combined with STDs, is the perfect method of spreading a body-fluid borne virus.

Public health records demonstrate that homosexuals, representing 2 percent of America's population, suffer vastly disproportionate percentages of several of America's most serious STDs, with incidences among homosexuals of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis A and B, cytomegalovirus, shigellosis, giardiasis, amoebic bowel disease and herpes far exceeding their presence in the general population. These are due to common homosexual practices that include fellatio, anilingus, digital stimulation of the rectum and ingestion of urine and feces.

An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year. The same study indicated the number of annual sexual partners averaged nearly 100. Homosexuals averaged, per year, fellating 106 different men and swallowing 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and 72 penile penetrations of the anus. (Corey, L, and Holmes, K.K., "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men," New England Journal of Medicine, 1980, vol 302: 435-438; as quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

A study by McKusick, et al., of 655 San Francisco homosexuals reported that only 24 percent of the sample claimed to have been "monogamous" during the past year, and of this 24 percent, 5 percent drank urine, 7 percent engag-ed in sex involving insertion of a fist in their rectums, 33 percent ingested feces, 53 percent swallowed semen and 59 percent received semen in their rectums in the month just previous to the survey ("AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported by Homosexual Men in San Francisco," American Journal of Public Health, December 1985, 75: 493-496; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

Lesbians show similar patterns of high venereal disease incidence relative to the general population. They are 19 times more likely to have had syphilis, twice as likely to have had genital warts, four times as likely to have had scabies, seven times more likely to have had infection from vaginal contact, 29 times more likely to have had oral infection from vaginal contact and 12 times more likely to have had an oral infection from penile contact ("Medical Aspects of Homosexuality," Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, 1985, Jaffe and Keewhan, et al.; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

AIDS research by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had more than 500 different sexual partners in a lifetime. Considered by themselves, the AIDS victims in this study averaged more than 1,100 lifetime sexual partners. Some reported as many as 20,000. Studies reported by A-P. Bell, M.S. Weinberg and S.K. Hammersmith in the book "Sexual Preference" (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1981) indicated that only 3 percent of homosexuals had fewer than 10 lifetime sexual partners. Only about 2 percent could be classified as either monogamous or semi-monogamous (from "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

To the present time, 75 to 85 percent of AIDS cases reported are related to homosexual activity, promiscuous heterosexual sex and IV drug abuse. AIDS stubbornly refuses to spread into the population in general, even 20 years after its discovery, despite dire warnings to the contrary.











BOGUS BULLSHIT HOMOHPOBIC STATS WITH NO PROOF WHATSOEVER!!


Talk points from homophobic knuckle draggers that want to believe everything they’re told because they’re too fuckin’ ignorant to research the information themselves.


Put a fuckin’ gun to your head right now and do the world a favor, give us one less hateful motherfucker who can’t come to grips with his own attraction to men.
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Postby BobbyinTN » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:11 am

Since 78 wrote:
Don wrote:You know, you could have summarized that in just three words.

God hates gays.


I don't think he said that.... but Bobby is a walking or at least talking contradiction. That said, a little TMI SJ.



Really? Explain.
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Postby ohsherrie » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:31 am

Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.
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Postby Saint John » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:11 am

BobbyinTN wrote:
Saint John wrote:
BobbyinTN wrote:I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell


It would probably be a lot more productive on your part to educate a few fellow fags on these stats:

However, AIDS is by far most common among the homosexual population in the United States, primarily because the type and frequency of sexual contact, combined with STDs, is the perfect method of spreading a body-fluid borne virus.

Public health records demonstrate that homosexuals, representing 2 percent of America's population, suffer vastly disproportionate percentages of several of America's most serious STDs, with incidences among homosexuals of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis A and B, cytomegalovirus, shigellosis, giardiasis, amoebic bowel disease and herpes far exceeding their presence in the general population. These are due to common homosexual practices that include fellatio, anilingus, digital stimulation of the rectum and ingestion of urine and feces.

An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year. The same study indicated the number of annual sexual partners averaged nearly 100. Homosexuals averaged, per year, fellating 106 different men and swallowing 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and 72 penile penetrations of the anus. (Corey, L, and Holmes, K.K., "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men," New England Journal of Medicine, 1980, vol 302: 435-438; as quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

A study by McKusick, et al., of 655 San Francisco homosexuals reported that only 24 percent of the sample claimed to have been "monogamous" during the past year, and of this 24 percent, 5 percent drank urine, 7 percent engag-ed in sex involving insertion of a fist in their rectums, 33 percent ingested feces, 53 percent swallowed semen and 59 percent received semen in their rectums in the month just previous to the survey ("AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported by Homosexual Men in San Francisco," American Journal of Public Health, December 1985, 75: 493-496; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

Lesbians show similar patterns of high venereal disease incidence relative to the general population. They are 19 times more likely to have had syphilis, twice as likely to have had genital warts, four times as likely to have had scabies, seven times more likely to have had infection from vaginal contact, 29 times more likely to have had oral infection from vaginal contact and 12 times more likely to have had an oral infection from penile contact ("Medical Aspects of Homosexuality," Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, 1985, Jaffe and Keewhan, et al.; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

AIDS research by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had more than 500 different sexual partners in a lifetime. Considered by themselves, the AIDS victims in this study averaged more than 1,100 lifetime sexual partners. Some reported as many as 20,000. Studies reported by A-P. Bell, M.S. Weinberg and S.K. Hammersmith in the book "Sexual Preference" (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1981) indicated that only 3 percent of homosexuals had fewer than 10 lifetime sexual partners. Only about 2 percent could be classified as either monogamous or semi-monogamous (from "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

To the present time, 75 to 85 percent of AIDS cases reported are related to homosexual activity, promiscuous heterosexual sex and IV drug abuse. AIDS stubbornly refuses to spread into the population in general, even 20 years after its discovery, despite dire warnings to the contrary.











BOGUS BULLSHIT HOMOHPOBIC STATS WITH NO PROOF WHATSOEVER!!


Talk points from homophobic knuckle draggers that want to believe everything they’re told because they’re too fuckin’ ignorant to research the information themselves.


Put a fuckin’ gun to your head right now and do the world a favor, give us one less hateful motherfucker who can’t come to grips with his own attraction to men.


Settle down, Tinkerbell. :lol:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:54 am

ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:59 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.


I agree. Do you people realize how idiotic you sound when people say "I don't want belief system X influencing culture/society"? Belief system X doesn't even necessarily have to be a religious system of beliefs. If systems of belief aren't informing cultural values and morality, then what the fuck is? Just whatever the whims of the current time happen to be? I know that's the way the libs want it to be, but that's not the way it's been, not the way it is, and not the way it'll ever be.
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Postby parfait » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:37 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.


Listen up dickbag. "Your society" is not in any way based on religion! The US is based on secular ideas, formed from the French revolution (goes all the way back to ancient Greece) - the founding fathers were mostly secular too. Thomas Paine, who laid the foundation for the declaration of Independence with Common Sense, said:

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.


You seriously need to get out more, dude. The US is still a puppy compared to the massive history of Greece, Sweden, Iraq, Japan and the list goes on. You see, almost every god damn thing you people believe in, democracy, civil liberties (right to fair trial and religion) and women rights. The beauty of the US is that it's a melange of some of the greatest European countries, and with it; all their collective culture and history mix together. Bitch all you want, but the rest of the world got more culture in our god damn sphincter than you people got all together.

And Ewwwmat, read up on one of my earlier posts on the immoral values of religion, or just go and buy one of Hitchen's or Dawkin's books or Voltaire for that matter.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:49 am

parfait wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.


Listen up dickbag. "Your society" is not in any way based on religion! The US is based on secular ideas, formed from the French revolution (goes all the way back to ancient Greece) - the founding fathers were mostly secular too. Thomas Paine, who laid the foundation for the declaration of Independence with Common Sense, said:

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.


You seriously need to get out more, dude. The US is still a puppy compared to the massive history of Greece, Sweden, Iraq, Japan and the list goes on. You see, almost every god damn thing you people believe in, democracy, civil liberties (right to fair trial and religion) and women rights. The beauty of the US is that it's a melange of some of the greatest European countries, and with it; all their collective culture and history mix together.

And Ewwwmat, read up on one of my earlier posts on the immoral values of religion, or just go and buy one of Hitchen's or Dawkin's books.


What are you talking about? I am not talking about the pros and cons of religion. I am merely pointing out the fallacy of people saying "I don't want my culture/society based on belief system X." A society, by definition, HAS to be based on belief systems. Liberals and quite a few conservatives would have a culture that is based solely on results, not one that is based on consistent systems of belief. Religion does happen to be one of those systems of belief that has informed the American tradition for the duration of the country's existence. So have philosophy, foreign culture, literature, and political thinkers.

People who say they don't want their society based on a "system" say so because they are afraid it will lead to some unwanted results for them - e.g., wanting the institution of slavery while simultaneously being free to engage in the work/market of their choice.

There are no principles left in this nation because all we care about are results. Bald-faced statements like "I don't want my society based on religious beliefs" betray that problem... and you can sub religious beliefs in for feminist values, conservative values, etc etc.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:49 am

parfait wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.


Listen up dickbag. "Your society" is not in any way based on religion! The US is based on secular ideas, formed from the French revolution (goes all the way back to ancient Greece) - the founding fathers were mostly secular too. Thomas Paine, who laid the foundation for the declaration of Independence with Common Sense, said:

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.


You seriously need to get out more, dude. The US is still a puppy compared to the massive history of Greece, Sweden, Iraq, Japan and the list goes on. You see, almost every god damn thing you people believe in, democracy, civil liberties (right to fair trial and religion) and women rights. The beauty of the US is that it's a melange of some of the greatest European countries, and with it; all their collective culture and history mix together.

And Ewwwmat, read up on one of my earlier posts on the immoral values of religion, or just go and buy one of Hitchen's or Dawkin's books.



Ahhh...yeah....Mr. Piss-in-the-Mouth...the United States Revolutionary War happened BEFORE the French Revolution...and UHHH...then you had Napoleon...brought back the Monarchy...BRIEFLY the 2nd Republic and then another Napoleon...and then the Third Republic...and that was in 1870...almost 100 years after the US War of Independence before you frogs had a stable democracy...you don't even know your OWN history.

MOST of those ideals you name come out of the Judeo-Christian tradition...not all but most...And yes Thomas Paine was definately a Diest ...but he was in the minority...most of the Founding Fathers were Church goers of some type.

And yes the United States is a VERY young country...but like so many innovations that come down the road from their origins...we are a better product than what came before...and nothing better has been brought forth yet.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:55 am

aaahhaaa ...we are a better product!! Bravissimo, RVR, Dickbag!!! :? :wink:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:06 am

Michigan Girl wrote:aaahhaaa ...we are a better product!! Bravissimo, RVR, Dickbag!!! :? :wink:


YES we are a better product...NO OTHER country has the freedoms and rights we do...NOT A ONE.

And who you calling DICKBAG? :) ;) Hehehe...what do you expect to be called by someone who just decided off the cuff decided to urinate in someones mouth? From him...that is HIGH praise indeed!
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Postby BobbyinTN » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:12 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.




Apparently you're the one ignorant of our history. This country was founded on freedom of religion and the every person's choice whether to believ in a God or not. Read why the founding fathers left England and you might understand a little more about religious freedom or the freedom from religion.
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Postby BobbyinTN » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:18 am

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:20 am

Well our money was founded on Christianity!! Anyone have a problem spending the American $$$!! :wink:
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Postby BobbyinTN » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:21 am

"When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any kind of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt." —Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, 1974


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Unanimity of opinion may be fitting for a church, for the frightened or greedy victims of some (ancient or modern) myth, or for the weak and willing followers of some tyrant. Variety of opinion is necessary for objective knowledge." —Paul Feyerabend, Against Method, 1975


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message." —Umberto Eco, Foucalt's Pendulum, 1988


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
—Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758



"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
—James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 1774



"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
—James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774



". . . no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
—Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779



"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
—Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787



"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see, but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity, though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
—Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790



"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
—Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794



"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
—Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794



"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
—Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794



"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
—John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815



"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
—Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823



"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
—Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813



"Man is fed with fables through life, and leaves it in the belief he knows something of what has been passing, when in truth he has known nothing but what has passed under his own eye."

—Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, 1823
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:22 am

BobbyinTN wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.




Apparently you're the one ignorant of our history. This country was founded on freedom of religion and the every person's choice whether to believ in a God or not. Read why the founding fathers left England and you might understand a little more about religious freedom or the freedom from religion.


We are talking two different things here Bobby...The Judeo-Christian moral, legal precedents and such are an INTEGRAL part of our laws...what I was addressing to OS was the fact that she doesn't want those morals, rules or culture influenced by those beliefs...and was commenting she doesn't know history because those MOST of those VERY THINGS form the foundation of our society and laws.

And except for maybe Thomas Paine, none of the Founders wanted Freedom FROM religion, they wanted the freedom to worship as they would like to do...which was impossible in England with a State Church.

History is a passion of mine, especially the history of the founding of this country...so please continue in ignorance if you like, but OS and you just are not educated enough.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:24 am

BobbyinTN wrote:This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.


Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?
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Postby BobbyinTN » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:28 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
BobbyinTN wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!! :?

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!


She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.


You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.




Apparently you're the one ignorant of our history. This country was founded on freedom of religion and the every person's choice whether to believ in a God or not. Read why the founding fathers left England and you might understand a little more about religious freedom or the freedom from religion.


We are talking two different things here Bobby...The Judeo-Christian moral, legal precedents and such are an INTEGRAL part of our laws...what I was addressing to OS was the fact that she doesn't want those morals, rules or culture influenced by those beliefs...and was commenting she doesn't know history because those MOST of those VERY THINGS form the foundation of our society and laws.

And except for maybe Thomas Paine, none of the Founders wanted Freedom FROM religion, they wanted the freedom to worship as they would like to do...which was impossible in England with a State Church.

History is a passion of mine, especially the history of the founding of this country...so please continue in ignorance if you like, but OS and you just are not educated enough.









I think it was both, the freedom to worship or not to worship and that no man, no American should ever be forced to worship if he or she doesn't want to.

And I think many times "morals" are subjective. Don't you?



It doesn't take a PHD to know history and know that Christianity was not the driving force of America, it was FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Don't believe the history the Christians are trying to rewrite, believe what's already written.
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