The MR Book Thread

[StevePerryHair]

I think it's great for kids and adults to be exposed to all different things. It gives them a good grasp for what the world is, a place of many different people with many different ideas. They can learn as teenagers and are smart enough to look at a book, and make a judgement. My kids have started watching documentaries on netflix. One they watched without me knowing was "Jesus Camp" and I was kind of thrown off by the fact they had watched it and then thought I wasn't sure I wanted them hearing all those things in that very very strict group of evangelical christians. But we had a discussion and my kids had definite opinions on what was good about it vs what was really awful about it for the children in the documentary. Some ideas they deemed "crazy" which I agreed. The point is it opened a discussion and my son is almost 17 and is wanting to learn more about the world and Im all for it. I do like knowing what he's learning though, and having those discussions about it. And it's really cool to see how his mind works and how he is making his own judgements with his own brain. I just don't see the harm. I would never be for any kind of book banning.

One thing that always ticked me off was hearing how christian groups were banning the reading of Harry Potter. They did this saying the books were evil without even reading them. Lots of people see it on a "bad" list and don't bother reading but will still preach about how bad it is. Read it and make your own decision if they are evil or not! I never read the books, but my kids did and loved them. I have seen the movies, and I can tell that they are stories of friendship, loyalty, pain, joy, LOTS of things that are GREAT lessons for kids. And most kids aren't dumb enough to think magic and wizardry are real. I just can't see the harm and it's sad to me when things are labeled this way. That's fine if you don't want to read it, but why try to keep the whole world from reading it?

[ohsherrie]

are you kidding me? some people compare obama to the anti christ? that is insane.

The "Left Behind" series holds absolutely no interest for me. If Kirk Cameron's endorsing it, forget it.

I'm no fan of book banning or burning but I'd consider it for that series especially if it's being insinuated into public school libraries.

Disgusting sentiment.

Only if you're a kool-aid drinker.

[artist4perry]

I think it's great for kids and adults to be exposed to all different things. It gives them a good grasp for what the world is, a place of many different people with many different ideas. They can learn as teenagers and are smart enough to look at a book, and make a judgement. My kids have started watching documentaries on netflix. One they watched without me knowing was "Jesus Camp" and I was kind of thrown off by the fact they had watched it and then thought I wasn't sure I wanted them hearing all those things in that very very strict group of evangelical christians. But we had a discussion and my kids had definite opinions on what was good about it vs what was really awful about it for the children in the documentary. Some ideas they deemed "crazy" which I agreed. The point is it opened a discussion and my son is almost 17 and is wanting to learn more about the world and Im all for it. I do like knowing what he's learning though, and having those discussions about it. And it's really cool to see how his mind works and how he is making his own judgements with his own brain. I just don't see the harm. I would never be for any kind of book banning.

One thing that always ticked me off was hearing how christian groups were banning the reading of Harry Potter. They did this saying the books were evil without even reading them. Lots of people see it on a "bad" list and don't bother reading but will still preach about how bad it is. Read it and make your own decision if they are evil or not! I never read the books, but my kids did and loved them. I have seen the movies, and I can tell that they are stories of friendship, loyalty, pain, joy, LOTS of things that are GREAT lessons for kids. And most kids aren't dumb enough to think magic and wizardry are real. I just can't see the harm and it's sad to me when things are labeled this way. That's fine if you don't want to read it, but why try to keep the whole world from reading it?

The great thing about Harry Potter series of books, was that it got children to read, who never liked to read. My son being one of them. The movies and books were a bonding thing between me and my children. Rose's birthday is in Nov. and we are planning to go see the movie. It is something we share in common, and it is wonderful to see that my son who hated to read............now wants to be a writer. Go Tony! I am a christian. I read the books for myself..........no big deal, it is just fantasy.

[ohsherrie]

I'm what I consider an agnostic but can't see why any one would want to ban those books from a school library. We've got plenty of other stuff on the shelves like books about UFOs and Bigfoot which try to present themselves as realistic which I think are garbage. Doesn't mean we need to pull it off the shelves? Censoring certain religious literature in the public libraries would be the same as what the church has been accused of trying to do regarding books on evolution and Devil warship.
It would be hypocritical to employ their tactics on things we don't happen to like also.

But those books on UFOs and Bigfoot don't represent a particular religious belief and I don't think religion has any place in a public school. If parents want their kids to learn about it let them go to the church of their choice but it is infringing on the civil rights of those parents who don't want their kids indoctrinated to teach it in a public school.

You can say that having the book in the library isn't teaching it and I wish that were true but we all know that christianity is insidious in our society.

[StevePerryHair]

I'm what I consider an agnostic but can't see why any one would want to ban those books from a school library. We've got plenty of other stuff on the shelves like books about UFOs and Bigfoot which try to present themselves as realistic which I think are garbage. Doesn't mean we need to pull it off the shelves? Censoring certain religious literature in the public libraries would be the same as what the church has been accused of trying to do regarding books on evolution and Devil warship.
It would be hypocritical to employ their tactics on things we don't happen to like also.

But those books on UFOs and Bigfoot don't represent a particular religious belief and I don't think religion has any place in a public school. If parents want their kids to learn about it let them go to the church of their choice but it is infringing on the civil rights of those parents who don't want their kids indoctrinated to teach it in a public school.

You can say that having the book in the library isn't teaching it and I wish that were true but we all know that christianity is insidious in our society.

Im really surprised living in the south you hold such a strict feeling with this. There is MUCH more God in the public schools in the south. In fact our high school principal is being moved from one school to another this year, and he sent a message out to every students home via phone message, and he said that he knows God has a plan and a path for him, and please don't call the school board and fight to try to keep him in our school. That he has come to terms with his move and its' a good thing for him. The schools don't have a problem during certain chorus or band performances having songs that involve God either. If they can do all that, then SURELY they can have some books that kids have a choice of reading or not. You talk like every book will just brainwash a teen to believe whatever it says. Give them more credit than that!!

[Michigan Girl]

Funny you mention that, Lynn!!!
On September 11, 2001, the middle school where my girls attended
placed "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the billboard/sign in front of the school.
I remember the day they put it up and the lump in my throat!! I also
remembered thinking, it will be acceptable now, but in a month or so
it will come down. I drive by that school every day, even if it's out
of my way, just to check that sign. July 20th, 2010 ...still there!!!

[artist4perry]

I'm what I consider an agnostic but can't see why any one would want to ban those books from a school library. We've got plenty of other stuff on the shelves like books about UFOs and Bigfoot which try to present themselves as realistic which I think are garbage. Doesn't mean we need to pull it off the shelves? Censoring certain religious literature in the public libraries would be the same as what the church has been accused of trying to do regarding books on evolution and Devil warship.
It would be hypocritical to employ their tactics on things we don't happen to like also.

But those books on UFOs and Bigfoot don't represent a particular religious belief and I don't think religion has any place in a public school. If parents want their kids to learn about it let them go to the church of their choice but it is infringing on the civil rights of those parents who don't want their kids indoctrinated to teach it in a public school.

You can say that having the book in the library isn't teaching it and I wish that were true but we all know that christianity is insidious in our society.

Im really surprised living in the south you hold such a strict feeling with this. There is MUCH more God in the public schools in the south. In fact our high school principal is being moved from one school to another this year, and he sent a message out to every students home via phone message, and he said that he knows God has a plan and a path for him, and please don't call the school board and fight to try to keep him in our school. That he has come to terms with his move and its' a good thing for him. The schools don't have a problem during certain chorus or band performances having songs that involve God either. If they can do all that, then SURELY they can have some books that kids have a choice of reading or not. You talk like every book will just brainwash a teen to believe whatever it says. Give them more credit than that!!

I am not into that book at all, but it is the same mind set to ban this book as .......oh a book called "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" by a Mark Twain. Give the kids credit. Book banning is the dangerous thought. It says we don't trust you to think for yourself. We want to control what you read. I love Huckleberry Finn. Open minds folks. Open the world to them with books.

[brywool]

Book banning really isn't a great idea.
Now, Religion banning, there's one I can get behind!

[artist4perry]

Book banning really isn't a great idea.
Now, Religion banning, there's one I can get behind!

Ah brywool without religion, what would you guys have to make fun of me over?

[brywool]

Book banning really isn't a great idea.
Now, Religion banning, there's one I can get behind!

Ah brywool without religion, what would you guys have to make fun of me over?

I don't think I've ever done that, have I??? If so, apologies.
Nah, I just think it causes a hell... er... a heckuva lotta problems.

[Ehwmatt]

are you kidding me? some people compare obama to the anti christ? that is insane.

The "Left Behind" series holds absolutely no interest for me. If Kirk Cameron's endorsing it, forget it.

I'm no fan of book banning or burning but I'd consider it for that series especially if it's being insinuated into public school libraries.

Disgusting sentiment.

Only if you're a kool-aid drinker.

So being a fan of freedom of speech makes one a kool-aid drinker? I don't even think most of your buddies on the left would agree with book banning.

Here's an easy constitutional law lesson: The right to free speech and expression is unbelievably broad, subject to incredibly narrow exceptions, and guess what? Banning books isn't within those exceptions. Get a grip.

[Ehwmatt]

Most of you know I'm more than moderately conservative, but I read anything and everything I can get my hands on. A lot of it is driven at least in part by liberal agendas.

A great example of a book I'm reading now:

Actual Innocence - About the wrongful convictions that a public interest lawyer group, The Innocence Project, works on to exonerate the wrongly accused. Is the book driven largely by a leftist agenda? To be sure... it is unabashedly so driven. Does it mean I don't benefit from the ideas and discourse within? Hell no.

[ohsherrie]

So being a fan of freedom of speech makes one a kool-aid drinker? I don't even think most of your buddies on the left would agree with book banning.

Here's an easy constitutional law lesson: The right to free speech and expression is unbelievably broad, subject to incredibly narrow exceptions, and guess what? Banning books isn't within those exceptions. Get a grip.

I didn't say I WOULD burn that book. In fact I said I wasn't into banning or burning books, but that I would CONSIDER it where those books were concerned. Maybe that wording is a little strong for your likes but I feel very strongly against indoctrinating young minds.

[Ehwmatt]

So being a fan of freedom of speech makes one a kool-aid drinker? I don't even think most of your buddies on the left would agree with book banning.

Here's an easy constitutional law lesson: The right to free speech and expression is unbelievably broad, subject to incredibly narrow exceptions, and guess what? Banning books isn't within those exceptions. Get a grip.

I didn't say I WOULD burn that book. In fact I said I wasn't into banning or burning books, but that I would CONSIDER it where those books were concerned. Maybe that wording is a little strong for your likes but I feel very strongly against indoctrinating young minds.

lol, you better start burning schools down then. Do you have ANY idea what has been going on in schools from about 4th grade through graduate level education in this country for the last 25~30 years? Total leftist agenda 99% of the time. Somehow, people find a way to form their own views. Give more credit to children/young adults in the educational system and the parents (presumably) raising them.

[artist4perry]

Book banning really isn't a great idea.
Now, Religion banning, there's one I can get behind!

Ah brywool without religion, what would you guys have to make fun of me over?

I don't think I've ever done that, have I??? If so, apologies.
Nah, I just think it causes a hell... er... a heckuva lotta problems.

No you haven't. I was just joking.

[donnaplease]

Wow! Some people will take any topic and turn it into an anti-religion rant I guess...

[donnaplease]

Also... Anne Rice is now writing books on Christ and *oh gasp!* religious topics. Better ban her, she might indoctrinate someone.

[donnaplease]

are you kidding me? some people compare obama to the anti christ? that is insane.

Have you seriously never heard that, Lula? Yes, it is thought by some that he could be/is the anti-christ. I think it's the fact that he came from seemingly nowhere to be the leader of the free world, he talked so much about a 'world community', etc. There are some parallels, but there are differences too and even the authors of the books are quick to tell people not to try to make him fit that role.

I think it's like reading about a disease process. If you read too much into it, you can find symptoms that you've had and all of a sudden you feel sick.

I like the books because although it is a fictional account of end times, it is easier to read and understand than actually reading the book of Revelation and trying to understand it. It breaks down the symbolism of the bible (all the judgements, etc) into real-world events. Since you're reading the bible now, it might be something that would interest you. (Also, I don't know what version of the bible you're reading, but I really like the New Revised Standard Version - it's very easy to understand).

[MrsPerry]

Hotel Translyvania by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro...

an excellent vampire read.

[brywool]

Do you have ANY idea what has been going on in schools from about 4th grade through graduate level education in this country for the last 25~30 years? Total leftist agenda 99% of the time.

Examples please?

[donnaplease]

Do you have ANY idea what has been going on in schools from about 4th grade through graduate level education in this country for the last 25~30 years? Total leftist agenda 99% of the time.

Examples please?

I'm not Matt, but sex ed is one of the things I would cite.

[Babyblue]

Final Exam: A Surgeon's Reflections on Mortality

Wonderful book by Pauline Chen which deals with what Doctors endure in end of life situations and recounts her own experiences from her early days as as a student, her first experience with the death of a patient up to the point where she has found the ability to criticize herself for not being there for dying patients and loved ones emotionally and the subsequent journey of bringing herself back from the depersonalization of death that is required in medical school to the ability of actually allowing herself to feel human when suffering the loss of a patient.

Woah, I might check that one out. Thanks, man.

That one really sounds good.I think i need to check it out myself.

[Triple S]

The only 2 authors whose complete works I own:

Stephen King

Michael Slade - Canadian author, incredibly gruesome, graphic stuff, but fascinating and entertaining!

http://specialx.net/

[Babyblue]

Also... Anne Rice is now writing books on Christ and *oh gasp!* religious topics. Better ban her, she might indoctrinate someone.

That she does & is still good.

[parfait]

Do you have ANY idea what has been going on in schools from about 4th grade through graduate level education in this country for the last 25~30 years? Total leftist agenda 99% of the time.

Examples please?

I'm not Matt, but sex ed is one of the things I would cite.

Uh, how is sex ed leftist?

[Ehwmatt]

Do you have ANY idea what has been going on in schools from about 4th grade through graduate level education in this country for the last 25~30 years? Total leftist agenda 99% of the time.

Examples please?

I finished a liberal arts degree with two majors in 2009. I couldn't name you one teacher who would identify him or herself as a Republican or even an Independent.

I am now in a graduate program. I know of three professors in the whole school who identify themselves as conservative.

I respected and do respect most of them as very intelligent people. I really only had a problem with about one or two professors the whole way through. But their views are their views and it does creep, subtly or not so subtly, into the classroom. What we have seen in academia since the mid to late 70s is the 60s radicals coming of age and entering academia instead of the private sector most of them reviled so greatly. Today, some of the most distinguished and longest tenured professors in universities are those same 60s radicals. It hasn't been a bad thing for me to be exposed to this line of thinking constantly. It's been great, because it gives my own views more substance against the views I believe incorrect.

Take a look at any preeminent academic journal or scholarly periodical. A mere skimming of the article titles can often reveal the biases of the writers.

And finally, here's a generalized study:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Mar28.html

What's really striking about this study is that even the traditional "conservative bastions" of certain academic disciplines, like business and engineering, have given way to more liberal professors. Note the part where it says that most students are not very much affected by the radical views they are often exposed to by their professors in the classroom. Hence why I think it's funny when people like Ohsherrie worry about indoctrination and likewise funny when certain conservatives get all up in arms about the liberal bias in the classroom... it really doesn't make that much of a difference. At the end of the day, a certain type of person is going to become a professor, and because of certain personality traits, they will tend to be both more liberal and less geared for success in the "real world" because of their utopian views about social justice, wealth, and the like.

College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01
College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have imagined, a new study says.

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans.

The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative.

"What's most striking is how few conservatives there are in any field," said Robert Lichter, a professor at George Mason University and a co-author of the study. "There was no field we studied in which there were more conservatives than liberals or more Republicans than Democrats. It's a very homogenous environment, not just in the places you'd expect to be dominated by liberals."

Religious services take a back seat for many faculty members, with 51 percent saying they rarely or never attend church or synagogue and 31 percent calling themselves regular churchgoers. On the gender front, 72 percent of the full-time faculty are male and 28 percent female.

The findings, by Lichter and fellow political science professors Stanley Rothman of Smith College and Neil Nevitte of the University of Toronto, are based on a survey of 1,643 full-time faculty at 183 four-year schools. The researchers relied on 1999 data from the North American Academic Study Survey, the most recent comprehensive data available.

The study appears in the March issue of the Forum, an online political science journal. It was funded by the Randolph Foundation, a right-leaning group that has given grants to such conservative organizations as the Independent Women's Forum and Americans for Tax Reform.

Rothman sees the findings as evidence of "possible discrimination" against conservatives in hiring and promotion. Even after factoring in levels of achievement, as measured by published work and organization memberships, "the most likely conclusion" is that "being conservative counts against you," he said. "It doesn't surprise me, because I've observed it happening." The study, however, describes this finding as "preliminary."

When asked about the findings, Jonathan Knight, director of academic freedom and tenure for the American Association of University Professors, said, "The question is how this translates into what happens within the academic community on such issues as curriculum, admission of students, evaluation of students, evaluation of faculty for salary and promotion." Knight said he isn't aware of "any good evidence" that personal views are having an impact on campus policies.

"It's hard to see that these liberal views cut very deeply into the education of students. In fact, a number of studies show the core values that students bring into the university are not very much altered by being in college."

Rothman, Lichter and Nevitte find a leftward shift on campus over the past two decades. In the last major survey of college faculty, by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 1984, 39 percent identified themselves as liberal.

In contrast with the finding that nearly three-quarters of college faculty are liberal, a Harris Poll of the general public last year found that 33 percent describe themselves as conservative and 18 percent as liberal.

The liberal label that a majority of the faculty members attached to themselves is reflected on a variety of issues. The professors and instructors surveyed are, strongly or somewhat, in favor of abortion rights (84 percent); believe homosexuality is acceptable (67 percent); and want more environmental protection "even if it raises prices or costs jobs" (88 percent). What's more, the study found, 65 percent want the government to ensure full employment, a stance to the left of the Democratic Party.

Recent campus controversies have reinforced the left-wing faculty image. The University of Colorado is reviewing its tenure system after one professor, Ward Churchill, created an uproar by likening World Trade Center victims to Nazis. Harvard's faculty of arts and sciences voted no confidence in the university's president, Lawrence Summers, after he privately wondered whether women had the same natural ability as men in science and math.

The study did not attempt to examine whether the political views of faculty members affect the content of their courses.

The researchers say that liberals, men and non-regular churchgoers are more likely to be teaching at top schools, while conservatives, women and more religious faculty are more likely to be relegated to lower-tier colleges and universities.

Top-tier schools, roughly a third of the total, are defined as highly ranked liberal arts colleges and research universities that grant PhDs.

The most liberal faculties are those devoted to the humanities (81 percent) and social sciences (75 percent), according to the study. But liberals outnumbered conservatives even among engineering faculty (51 percent to 19 percent) and business faculty (49 percent to 39 percent).

The most left-leaning departments are English literature, philosophy, political science and religious studies, where at least 80 percent of the faculty say they are liberal and no more than 5 percent call themselves conservative, the study says.

"In general," says Lichter, who also heads the nonprofit Center for Media and Public Affairs, "even broad-minded people gravitate toward other people like themselves. That's why you need diversity, not just of race and gender but also, maybe especially, of ideas and perspective."

[S2M]

Personally, I find King to be one of those authors who has ridden fame for 30+ years due to a couple of 'decent' efforts...the U2 of writing, if you will...I consider him extremely verbose, and uninteresting....'insomnia' was a misnomer...and IT was disappointing in the fact that the supernatural element was a fucking arachnid...the only saving grace to that whole topic was TIM Curry.'The Dark Half' was sorta cool...but his crowning achievement was 'Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption'...and even being a Red Sox fanatic I found ' The girl who loved Tom Gorden' completely contrived....

[Andrew]

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING John Sandford, most John Grisham, some Robert Crais, Mark Gimenez Colour Of Law and The Accused are fantastic, and the three books Michael Harvey has written (Chicago based writer) are sensational. Dan Brown is also great (apart from the last one)...his first 2 are the best and DaVinci...

Currently reading the Stig Larsson trilogy...wow, there's some dark matter for ya...

]


SANFORD is killer writer... Love the Prey series... LUCAS DAVENPORT ROCKS!! The Prey series would be great TV drama.. **THAT FUCKING FLOWERS**... classic... his Kidd novels were great and now he has expanded and has done a Virgil spin off..

Eagerly anticipating the the Virgil book out Sept

I've got every single Prey book thus far...great stuff.

[Andrew]

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING John Sandford, most John Grisham, some Robert Crais, Mark Gimenez Colour Of Law and The Accused are fantastic, and the three books Michael Harvey has written (Chicago based writer) are sensational. Dan Brown is also great (apart from the last one)...his first 2 are the best and DaVinci...

Currently reading the Stig Larsson trilogy...wow, there's some dark matter for ya...

Stig's gonna need to write a new book, 'The girl with the Booty Pop'

Bit hard seeing that he's now deceased.

[Andrew]

(Andrew, if you like John Sanford you really should check out Michael Connelly's Harry Bosch series.)

I have several. I forgot about Mike. Lincoln Lawyer is another great read.

And you should check out Michael Kelly...