NEW Perry/Journey rumor?

[Don]

REO and Foreigner both had two Top 30 singles on the A/C chart from their last releases (through Wal-Mart) and their albums didn't even sell gold combined, and that is with both as double disc sets. The Adult Contemporary chart is worthless as a barometer on how well an album or song is doing, it's like comparing a semi-pro league to the NFL.

[Since 78]

It won't sell a million to non Filipinos, no way.

We'll see, Deano. You honestly think Revelation went platinum based soley on the Filipino fan base?

Oh absolutely. Without the Filipino fans, it doesn't even go gold. What are the sales? 900K? At least 500K are Pinheads. Why do I say this? Look at Arrival and it's meager sales. Generations sold 100K. The band had a feel good story and got on Oprah, but that isn't worth 800K sales. Don't you find the addition of Pineda to be the difference between Journey/Augeri and current? I do.

No.

For all some people don't like about Pineda, he has the best voice of any singer they've had since Perry.

That ain't Pinhead....it's the truth.

That's not why they outsold Arrival. They outsold Arrival because he is a Filipino. Very clear and simple Steve. People aren't going to sit down and try to be sold on a new singer. Journey has it's history. The casual fan didn't buy Revelation. The Filipino's did.

Dude, how are you so cock sure of this? What empirical data have you got to back up your claim?
If there is something out there that proves this, show it, or else it's just heresay opinion and opinions are like assholes. You know that!

My brother and sister bought Revelation.
My mother owned Revelation before I did and didn't even know they had a new singer.
I have several "whitee" friends who bought Revelation.

I think you're wrong about the casual fan. Me thinks there are a bunch more of us whities that bought Rev.

Now I need to go kill this off:

Goddammit Steve. Revelation came out of nowhere and outsold Arrival 4 to 1. You really think it's because everyday people gave it a listen and liked the music so much they had to have it? Come on, it's obviously the race of Pineda. He is the variable difference between the two eras. It makes sense. Even St John made this very point before Revelation was even recorded. The Asian angle will bring in new purchases and it did.

Ok, yes, I agree the Filipinos helped push the sales of Revelation but you seem convinced that is all there is to it. I'm saying that there was good new music and the best voice that Journey had had since TBF. There are several factors that determined the success of this album. Look at the means of distribution....exclusive Walmart release. That's huge and this is not the first band that has this kind of success with sales throught Walmart.

It doesn't matter how good Pineda sings, that's my point. They didn't get any radio play, so people had no clue how well he sang. They(the Journey fan) were going to buy it anyway, before listening to it. The Filipino's were buying this thing as soon as Pineda was introduced. Come on, it's about national pride for them. They were going to be a proud people and support one of their own. They contributed to at least half of the sales.

If they contributed half, that still makes it platinum. I think its double now, Don will correct me if I'm wrong.

[brywool]

It won't sell a million to non Filipinos, no way.

We'll see, Deano. You honestly think Revelation went platinum based soley on the Filipino fan base?

Oh absolutely. Without the Filipino fans, it doesn't even go gold. What are the sales? 900K? At least 500K are Pinheads. Why do I say this? Look at Arrival and it's meager sales. Generations sold 100K. The band had a feel good story and got on Oprah, but that isn't worth 800K sales. Don't you find the addition of Pineda to be the difference between Journey/Augeri and current? I do.

No.

For all some people don't like about Pineda, he has the best voice of any singer they've had since Perry.

That ain't Pinhead....it's the truth.

That's not why they outsold Arrival. They outsold Arrival because he is a Filipino. Very clear and simple Steve. People aren't going to sit down and try to be sold on a new singer. Journey has it's history. The casual fan didn't buy Revelation. The Filipino's did.

They outsold Arrival because WalMart marketed the crap out of that album. Sony didn't do diddly for Arrival. NOTHING. Walmart did all the right things with it. I'd always heard that Sony wasn't behind Augeri as well, that could be because he wasn't the Schnozzed One or simply because they didn't think he could deliver. Pineda delivers. Filipino fanbase probably does have to be taken into account, but wasn't the album unavailable over there for the longest time? Didn't the album rack up a boatload of sales before they could get it? I'm just asking, I really have no idea.

[Since 78]

I think you're right Bry, it wasn't available right away.

[Don]

It won't sell a million to non Filipinos, no way.

We'll see, Deano. You honestly think Revelation went platinum based soley on the Filipino fan base?

Oh absolutely. Without the Filipino fans, it doesn't even go gold. What are the sales? 900K? At least 500K are Pinheads. Why do I say this? Look at Arrival and it's meager sales. Generations sold 100K. The band had a feel good story and got on Oprah, but that isn't worth 800K sales. Don't you find the addition of Pineda to be the difference between Journey/Augeri and current? I do.

No.

For all some people don't like about Pineda, he has the best voice of any singer they've had since Perry.

That ain't Pinhead....it's the truth.

That's not why they outsold Arrival. They outsold Arrival because he is a Filipino. Very clear and simple Steve. People aren't going to sit down and try to be sold on a new singer. Journey has it's history. The casual fan didn't buy Revelation. The Filipino's did.

They outsold Arrival because WalMart marketed the crap out of that album. Sony didn't do diddly for Arrival. NOTHING. Walmart did all the right things with it. I'd always heard that Sony wasn't behind Augeri as well, that could be because he wasn't the Schnozzed One or simply because they didn't think he could deliver. Pineda delivers. Filipino fanbase probably does have to be taken into account, but wasn't the album unavailable over there for the longest time? Didn't the album rack up a boatload of sales before they could get it? I'm just asking, I really have no idea.

It wasn't available over there but even when it was it only sold 30k in the Philippines. The Filipinos here in the states though have openly talked about purchasing multiple copies and sending them to their friends or giving them away to relatives here, the same thing they did with the Manila DVD. That said, I don't think the Revelation purchases driven by ethnicity or national pride made as big a dent as they did with DVD sales as it only takes 20k in sales to have a #1 Music DVD now days.
I think the real variables here are that you have three discs sold for 12 bucks at Wal-Mart and the whole youtube story getting play, tied in with the Greatest Hits, i think that's what moved the package mostly. Actually I'll say the Greatest Hits was the biggest factor along with price as even now Journey's Greatest Hits from Sony continues to a be a mainstay on the album chart long after Revelation has disappeared, probably due to the fact that people can save a few bucks more off of Sony's release and it's available everywhere, unlike Revelation.

Arrival on the other hand had one disc, selling for $17 at some places, with virtually no marketing from Sony who turn around and basically kill all of Augeri's credibilty as the new singer by releasing Essential Journey six months later which ends up going Platinum.

[Saint John]

The whole math on multiple disc sales was to reward the artist for selling a more expensive packge.

I don't recall the RIAA ever saying that.

This THREE disc package sold for 10 fucking dollars! If it sold for 19.99 I would respect the sales numbers, but here we have a three disc package going for less than the new U2 or Springsteen single disc offerings.

Let me get this straight ... you're saying that Journey should demand higher prices so they can have ass-raping profit margins like the 2 bands you mentioned. You're too much, dude.

And NONE of those songs you listed got any top 40 radio play. AC charts are bullshit.

Take a peek at the Top 40 chart and then take a peek at the AC chart. You tell me where the real quality is.

[Don]

Journey didn't hook up with Wal-Mart because they wanted to give the fans a great deal, they did it because it offered them the biggest payday they've had in 12 years. I'm not knocking them for it but let's call a spade a spade here. It's all about getting paid.

[Voyager]

After my wife found out and told the rest of the family, then they started being interested in AP and Journey.

You just made my argument for me. They heard Pineda, a Filipino, became singer, and THEN they started getting interested in Journey. That's what sold the cd.

Exactly, and that was why Arnel's fans had such a hard time meshing with Steve Perry's fans. At least Augeri's fans were already familiar with Journey and had respect for Steve Perry's legacy. Arnel's fans were not interested in hearing anything about Perry - he was washed up in their eyes, and Arnel was the only lead singer of Journey that they had any interest in. In their view, Perry's legacy was nothing but a thorn in the side of their idol Arnel. It seemed to turn into a battle over national pride and got pretty ugly on both sides.

[Rip Rokken]

After my wife found out and told the rest of the family, then they started being interested in AP and Journey.

You just made my argument for me. They heard Pineda, a Filipino, became singer, and THEN they started getting interested in Journey. That's what sold the cd.

Exactly, and that was why Arnel's fans had such a hard time meshing with Steve Perry's fans. At least Augeri's fans were already familiar with Journey and had respect for Steve Perry's legacy. Arnel's fans were not interested in hearing anything about Perry - he was washed up in their eyes, and Arnel was the only lead singer of Journey that they had any interest in. In their view, Perry's legacy was nothing but a thorn in the side of their idol Arnel. It seemed to turn into a battle over national pride and got pretty ugly on both sides.

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired. Everyone should just relax, sit back and enjoy the music.

[brywool]

After my wife found out and told the rest of the family, then they started being interested in AP and Journey.

You just made my argument for me. They heard Pineda, a Filipino, became singer, and THEN they started getting interested in Journey. That's what sold the cd.

Exactly, and that was why Arnel's fans had such a hard time meshing with Steve Perry's fans. At least Augeri's fans were already familiar with Journey and had respect for Steve Perry's legacy. Arnel's fans were not interested in hearing anything about Perry - he was washed up in their eyes, and Arnel was the only lead singer of Journey that they had any interest in. In their view, Perry's legacy was nothing but a thorn in the side of their idol Arnel. It seemed to turn into a battle over national pride and got pretty ugly on both sides.

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired. Everyone should just relax, sit back and enjoy the music.

Well Said Rip.

[Voyager]

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired.

Yeah, Perry's actions made sure of that. It would be like Mick Jagger leaving the Stones - fans would obviously have a hard time accepting a new frontman.

[brywool]

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired.

Yeah, Perry's actions made sure of that. It would be like Mick Jagger leaving the Stones - fans would obviously have a hard time accepting a new frontman.

But, my God, it's been over a decade now. Time to move on...

[Voyager]

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired.

Yeah, Perry's actions made sure of that. It would be like Mick Jagger leaving the Stones - fans would obviously have a hard time accepting a new frontman.

But, my God, it's been over a decade now. Time to move on...

Yeah, you're right. I'm going to fire up my barbecue grill and burn all my Steve Perry/Journey CD's. It's time to get over it and move on!!

[brywool]

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired.

Yeah, Perry's actions made sure of that. It would be like Mick Jagger leaving the Stones - fans would obviously have a hard time accepting a new frontman.

But, my God, it's been over a decade now. Time to move on...

Yeah, you're right. I'm going to fire up my barbecue grill and burn all my Steve Perry/Journey CD's. It's time to get over it and move on!!

that's not moving on, is it? But apparently the singer of choice is something to pick fights over. Ridiculous. It's a rock band. Keep it in perspective.

[YoungJRNY]

NO JOKE -- someone just IM'ed me on Facebook that they'd heard Perry was spotted having dinner with members of Journey in S.F. recently. We're both looking for more info. It may not pan out but has ANYONE else heard anything like this?

I know this speaks of caution, but does ANYBODY know the whereabouts of Wix, and does it involve a Pizza Shop?

[Abitaman]

After my wife found out and told the rest of the family, then they started being interested in AP and Journey.

You just made my argument for me. They heard Pineda, a Filipino, became singer, and THEN they started getting interested in Journey. That's what sold the cd.

Exactly, and that was why Arnel's fans had such a hard time meshing with Steve Perry's fans. At least Augeri's fans were already familiar with Journey and had respect for Steve Perry's legacy. Arnel's fans were not interested in hearing anything about Perry - he was washed up in their eyes, and Arnel was the only lead singer of Journey that they had any interest in. In their view, Perry's legacy was nothing but a thorn in the side of their idol Arnel. It seemed to turn into a battle over national pride and got pretty ugly on both sides.

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired. Everyone should just relax, sit back and enjoy the music.

well said

[Rip Rokken]

Yeah, you're right. I'm going to fire up my barbecue grill and burn all my Steve Perry/Journey CD's. It's time to get over it and move on!!

For some reason your avatar stopped wiggling on my screen. Did her batteries run down?

[Rip Rokken]

People have found a way to be pretty ugly to each other over Journey for a long time before AP was hired.

Yeah, Perry's actions made sure of that. It would be like Mick Jagger leaving the Stones - fans would obviously have a hard time accepting a new frontman.

But, my God, it's been over a decade now. Time to move on...

Yeah, you're right. I'm going to fire up my barbecue grill and burn all my Steve Perry/Journey CD's. It's time to get over it and move on!!

that's not moving on, is it? But apparently the singer of choice is something to pick fights over. Ridiculous. It's a rock band. Keep it in perspective.

It's something I'll never get. There are too many things in the world I have no control over that bring stress. Music has always been the antidote and escape for me, so why would I want to ruin that by stressing out and fighting with people over personal music tastes? Ya know?

[Monker]

It won't sell a million to non Filipinos, no way.

We'll see, Deano. You honestly think Revelation went platinum based soley on the Filipino fan base?

Oh absolutely. Without the Filipino fans, it doesn't even go gold. What are the sales? 900K? At least 500K are Pinheads. Why do I say this? Look at Arrival and it's meager sales. Generations sold 100K. The band had a feel good story and got on Oprah, but that isn't worth 800K sales. Don't you find the addition of Pineda to be the difference between Journey/Augeri and current? I do.

No.

For all some people don't like about Pineda, he has the best voice of any singer they've had since Perry.

That ain't Pinhead....it's the truth.

That's not why they outsold Arrival. They outsold Arrival because he is a Filipino. Very clear and simple Steve. People aren't going to sit down and try to be sold on a new singer. Journey has it's history. The casual fan didn't buy Revelation. The Filipino's did.

They outsold Arrival because WalMart marketed the crap out of that album. Sony didn't do diddly for Arrival. NOTHING. Walmart did all the right things with it. I'd always heard that Sony wasn't behind Augeri as well, that could be because he wasn't the Schnozzed One or simply because they didn't think he could deliver. Pineda delivers. Filipino fanbase probably does have to be taken into account, but wasn't the album unavailable over there for the longest time? Didn't the album rack up a boatload of sales before they could get it? I'm just asking, I really have no idea.

It wasn't available over there but even when it was it only sold 30k in the Philippines. The Filipinos here in the states though have openly talked about purchasing multiple copies and sending them to their friends or giving them away to relatives here, the same thing they did with the Manila DVD. That said, I don't think the Revelation purchases driven by ethnicity or national pride made as big a dent as they did with DVD sales as it only takes 20k in sales to have a #1 Music DVD now days.
I think the real variables here are that you have three discs sold for 12 bucks at Wal-Mart and the whole youtube story getting play, tied in with the Greatest Hits, i think that's what moved the package mostly. Actually I'll say the Greatest Hits was the biggest factor along with price as even now Journey's Greatest Hits from Sony continues to a be a mainstay on the album chart long after Revelation has disappeared, probably due to the fact that people can save a few bucks more off of Sony's release and it's available everywhere, unlike Revelation.

Arrival on the other hand had one disc, selling for $17 at some places, with virtually no marketing from Sony who turn around and basically kill all of Augeri's credibilty as the new singer by releasing Essential Journey six months later which ends up going Platinum.

Arrival had other things going for it. They were on the heals of two successful tours with Augeri (Vacations Over, and the tour with Foreigner). They had the DTV show, and the 2001 DVD sold separately...which also went platinum. They also had VIDEOS on MTV ripped from the 2001 concert played on VH1 And, they had the BTM on VH1, which was the highest rated BTM at that time.

All of the above was done by MANAGEMENT (and a bit of help from Herbie/Nocturne). If Sony had done their part and promoted Arrival, it would have been a huge hit with at least two hit singles. I was hearing Higher Place on the radio often, up until Soto took over. Kevin Shirley said it best at the time when he said he thought Sony had certain expectations for Arrival and really didn't care much if it surpassed them.

[Monker]

Journey didn't hook up with Wal-Mart because they wanted to give the fans a great deal, they did it because it offered them the biggest payday they've had in 12 years. I'm not knocking them for it but let's call a spade a spade here. It's all about getting paid.

The same could be said about ILoveAllAccess...and I AM knocking them for that one.

[Monker]

After my wife found out and told the rest of the family, then they started being interested in AP and Journey.

You just made my argument for me. They heard Pineda, a Filipino, became singer, and THEN they started getting interested in Journey. That's what sold the cd.

Exactly, and that was why Arnel's fans had such a hard time meshing with Steve Perry's fans. At least Augeri's fans were already familiar with Journey and had respect for Steve Perry's legacy. Arnel's fans were not interested in hearing anything about Perry - he was washed up in their eyes, and Arnel was the only lead singer of Journey that they had any interest in. In their view, Perry's legacy was nothing but a thorn in the side of their idol Arnel. It seemed to turn into a battle over national pride and got pretty ugly on both sides.

I'd like to hear Andrew's opinion on this. He was talking about a 'big international contract' LONG before Arnel was involved. I think it was the opposite...Journey had Wal-Mart wanting to do rerecords...Soto wasn't a good fit for the "legacy sound", and there were whatever other issues with him (which I don't recall, or care much about). So, they (Neal) went looking for someone who could better fit what Wal-Mart wanted to record...and found Arnel doing a good Perry imitation Did Soto not do some rerecord demos or something?

[Saint John]

Journey didn't hook up with Wal-Mart because they wanted to give the fans a great deal, they did it because it offered them the biggest payday they've had in 12 years. I'm not knocking them for it but let's call a spade a spade here. It's all about getting paid.

The same could be said about ILoveAllAccess...and I AM knocking them for that one.

Thanks to Cyndy! Poon many of us were able to circumvent the system and join the Heart fanclub in '08, and for a one-time fee of $35 get access to great seats and often be sitting in front of the ILAA Journey folks. Thanks again, Cyndy!

PS I did do ILAA one time and found it to be a rather enjoyable experience. While it's kind of overpriced, it's also hassle-free and gives you some pretty cool access at competitive prices, relative to similar packages by other artists. Crazy Deb and Dr Fu know the gentleman's name that runs ILAA, and, man, is he a great guy!

[portland]

After my wife found out and told the rest of the family, then they started being interested in AP and Journey.

You just made my argument for me. They heard Pineda, a Filipino, became singer, and THEN they started getting interested in Journey. That's what sold the cd.

Exactly, and that was why Arnel's fans had such a hard time meshing with Steve Perry's fans. At least Augeri's fans were already familiar with Journey and had respect for Steve Perry's legacy. Arnel's fans were not interested in hearing anything about Perry - he was washed up in their eyes, and Arnel was the only lead singer of Journey that they had any interest in. In their view, Perry's legacy was nothing but a thorn in the side of their idol Arnel. It seemed to turn into a battle over national pride and got pretty ugly on both sides.

I'd like to hear Andrew's opinion on this. He was talking about a 'big international contract' LONG before Arnel was involved. I think it was the opposite...Journey had Wal-Mart wanting to do rerecords...Soto wasn't a good fit for the "legacy sound", and there were whatever other issues with him (which I don't recall, or care much about). So, they (Neal) went looking for someone who could better fit what Wal-Mart wanted to record...and found Arnel doing a good Perry imitation Did Soto not do some rerecord demos or something?

I guess I am naive....why would anyone want rerecords?? What was the purpose?

Do they think they got more fans because of them?

As a fan of the Perry days it made the band look cheap and bitter...and I know I will catch hell for it...but I still
don't get it at all.

[Rockindeano]

I'd like to hear Andrew's opinion on this. He was talking about a 'big international contract' LONG before Arnel was involved. I think it was the opposite...Journey had Wal-Mart wanting to do rerecords...Soto wasn't a good fit for the "legacy sound", and there were whatever other issues with him (which I don't recall, or care much about). So, they (Neal) went looking for someone who could better fit what Wal-Mart wanted to record...and found Arnel doing a good Perry imitation Did Soto not do some rerecord demos or something?

What a very interesting point here. Makes me think a bit.

I don't know if I should say anything here so I will I vividly remember Soto telling me about the idea of rerecords. This was when he was an official member. I am now wondering if this is what led to Soto's ouster. Schon and Cain wanted the Walmart money, and perhaps Walmart didn't like Soto's takes on the songs. Yeah, there were tapes of JSS singing them. It all makes perfect sense now.

[Saint John]

Yeah, there were tapes of JSS singing them. It all makes perfect sense now.

If those tapes sounded like any of the concerts he performed as a fill-in, then firing him was a fucking no-brainer.

[RPM]

As a fan of the Perry days it made the band look cheap and bitter...and I know I will catch hell for it...but I still
don't get it at all.[/quote]

you are 100% correct. Re-records are an insult. The current Journey, much like the current Eagles,
is all about making money, the love of making distinct and one of a kind music ended a long time ago ....

[portland]

Yeah, there were tapes of JSS singing them. It all makes perfect sense now.

If those tapes sounded like any of the concerts he performed as a fill-in, then firing him was a fucking no-brainer.

Nice Dan...Nice.

[portland]

As a fan of the Perry days it made the band look cheap and bitter...and I know I will catch hell for it...but I still
don't get it at all.

you are 100% correct. Re-records are an insult. The current Journey, much like the current Eagles,
is all about making money, the love of making distinct and one of a kind music ended a long time ago ....[/quote]



I just think that if they wanted to go forth and prosper....than do so, but that second disk for me...put the nail
in the coffin before I ever listened to it....the music was PERFECT!!! LEAVE IT ALONE!!

THEY COULD HAVE SAID NO???

[Saint John]

I just think that if they wanted to go forth and prosper....than do so, but that second disk for me...put the nail
in the coffin before I ever listened to it....the music was PERFECT!!! LEAVE IT ALONE!!

THEY COULD HAVE SAID NO???

Do a little research before you open your blower. Wal Mart mandated the re-records and wanted Journey to only include 4 new songs. They pushed, and got, a full album of new material out of the deal. The re-records were a must, though. The deal was simply too lucrative to turn down. It's probably their most successful album ever as far as $$$ in the pocket goes (about $7 per unit moved).

Sure they could have said no. But considering one of their former singers was lazy and unscrupulous enough to lawyer his way into getting paid while he wasn't even on tour, how can you blame them? Like Neal said "...fuck him!"

[Monker]

As a fan of the Perry days it made the band look cheap and bitter...and I know I will catch hell for it...but I still
don't get it at all.

you are 100% correct. Re-records are an insult. The current Journey, much like the current Eagles,
is all about making money, the love of making distinct and one of a kind music ended a long time ago ....

I just think that if they wanted to go forth and prosper....than do so, but that second disk for me...put the nail
in the coffin before I ever listened to it....the music was PERFECT!!! LEAVE IT ALONE!!

THEY COULD HAVE SAID NO???[/quote]

Saying 'no' to something that makes them money is not Journey's way of doing things nowadays.