US border violence: Myth or reality?

[Don]

America's safest cities, 2009

1.Honolulu, Hawaii
2.El Paso, Texas
3.New York City, New York
4.San Jose, California
5.Austin, Texas
6.San Diego, California
7.Seattle, Washington
8.Portland, Oregon
9.Denver, Colorado
10.Los Angeles, California

Cities with highest crime, 2009

1.Detroit, Michigan
2.Memphis, Tennessee
3.Baltimore, Maryland
4.Washington, DC
5.Atlanta, Georgia
6.Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7.Indianapolis, Indiana
8.Columbus, Ohio
9.Milwaukee, Wisconsin
10.Dallas, Texas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10779151



Fears over Mexican drug cartel violence spilling into the US are helping to fuel the debate over immigration and border control in Washington DC. Yet El Paso, Texas, the US town a footbridge away from the epicentre of Mexican drug violence in Juarez, was recently named the second safest big city in America. What's the real story behind all the talk of border violence?

Spanish settlers named the crossing El Paso Del Norte - the pass to the north. The border city of El Paso, Texas, lies along the Rio Grande, in the chasm between two inhospitable mountains.

Each day, thousands of people in cars, buses and on foot cross the short bridge that connects El Paso with its Mexican sister city, Juarez, one of the world's most dangerous places.

In the past two years, more than 5,000 people have been murdered in Juarez as drug-related crime has soared.

A few hundred yards away across the river in El Paso, local authorities have recorded just two murders this year. In 2009 there were 11.

Yet politicians including Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott tend to portray border towns as being pushed to crisis point.

"We see this crime on a daily basis. The federal government must respond more effectively, step up their enforcement and protection of the border before more American blood is shed," Mr Abbott told Fox News.

Texas Governor Rick Perry called that deployment "grossly insufficient". Many politicians are calling for even more troops.

But the mayor of El Paso, John Cook, isn't one of them.

"Logically it would seem that if you have violence on one side of the border then you're going to have spillover on the other side. But the reality is that we don't."

According to FBI crime statistics, El Paso is the second safest city in America. Crime rates there have dropped 36% over the past 10 years. Other cities close to the border, including San Diego in California and Phoenix in Arizona, have similarly experienced declines in violent crime.

Over the same period, federal agencies have beefed up their presence along the border, and a 2,000-mile fence is slowly being constructed.

The fence near El Paso is 16-18 feet (4.9-5.5m) high, made of rust-coloured steel mesh. There are 2,700 border police in this sector, monitoring the border day and night, and a raft of FBI, CIA and drug enforcement agents.

Mr Cook questions the need for more troops, given that current border security levels appear to have been effective at containing drug violence south of the border.

Additionally, both he and local border enforcement officials told the BBC that the leaders of drug cartels do not believe it is in their interest to bring the violence north.

"It is more dangerous to walk the streets of Juarez, a few blocks from El Paso, than it is to walk the streets of Baghdad. There is a very serious problem that is beginning to bulge at our borders and put American lives at risk."

In mid-July, President Barack Obama ordered 1,200 National Guard troops to patrol the border, just days after a car bomb exploded in northern Juarez, very near El Paso.

"The reality is we really don't need the help on this side of the border. We probably have every kind of federal law enforcement agency that you can think of. We're an extremely safe community," Mr Cook told the BBC.


"Logically it would seem that if you have violence on one side of the border then you're going to have spillover on the other side. But the reality is that we don't."

According to FBI crime statistics, El Paso is the second safest city in America. Crime rates there have dropped 36% over the past 10 years. Other cities close to the border, including San Diego in California and Phoenix in Arizona, have similarly experienced declines in violent crime.

Over the same period, federal agencies have beefed up their presence along the border, and a 2,000-mile fence is slowly being constructed.

The fence near El Paso is 16-18 feet (4.9-5.5m) high, made of rust-coloured steel mesh. There are 2,700 border police in this sector, monitoring the border day and night, and a raft of FBI, CIA and drug enforcement agents.

Mr Cook questions the need for more troops, given that current border security levels appear to have been effective at containing drug violence south of the border.

Additionally, both he and local border enforcement officials told the BBC that the leaders of drug cartels do not believe it is in their interest to bring the violence north.

Drug barons know that the response from the US government would be swift and heavy, and further hinder their ability to smuggle drugs into the lucrative American market.

Locals worry that with an even heavier security presence in town, El Paso risks becoming like Cold War Berlin, a riven city, its character disrupted by an imposing divider wall.

They believe politicians who don't live on the border fail to appreciate the deep interconnectedness of cities like Juarez and El Paso, which Mr Cook describes as "one city joined by a border".

So with crime rates declining and the border stable, how has this relatively safe Texan city found itself in the centre of a political firestorm over border violence, and the Obama administration's plans to deal with it?

Border historian David Romo says it is a pattern. He's seen politicians fanning fears about the border before.

The first calls to build a border fence in El Paso to secure the city came in 1908. Back then, the fear was Chinese immigrants. In World War II, politicians worried about Germans streaming across.

These days, it's Mexicans who fuel unease. Mr Romo says that during times of economic distress, the border and the immigrants who cross it are used as scapegoats. He believes history is repeating itself, and politicians are using the same rhetoric they have for decades.

"It happens that every time an election year comes up, they know that creating fear and hysteria about the border will drive a wedge," Mr Romo told the BBC.

"In some ways it's cheap vote-getting. There is this cycle of kind of nativist hysteria that is very profitable for politicians. Nothing gets votes like the politics of fear."

Mr Romo says he's not seen evidence of violence infiltrating the El Paso community. He argues that the immigrants who make a new life across the border are motivated to act within the law because they fear being deported.

While Arizona Governor Jan Brewer blames immigrants, illegal and otherwise, for violent crimes and burglaries, Mr Romo says that, ironically, those immigrants have the most incentive to be law-abiding. They don't want to draw attention.

Although fears of spillover violence aren't substantiated by crime data, they are having a real impact on the economy of El Paso.

"From an economic development perspective, it's been very negative for us," Mr Cook said.

He has difficulty convincing new businesses to set up in El Paso because of the violence in Juarez. The first question he gets asked in business meetings is, "is it safe?"

"They don't pay attention to the fact that we are the second safest large city in the United States," he says.

"We've had people who have looked to locating here with their companies and we have to convince them that it's a safe place. They almost don't believe you."

The longer the violence continues in Juarez, the bleaker the outlook becomes for El Paso, despite its impressive safety record.

For now, there's little more Mayor Cook can do but wait.

[conversationpc]

America's safest cities, 2009

1.Honolulu, Hawaii
2.El Paso, Texas
3.New York City, New York
4.San Jose, California
5.Austin, Texas
6.San Diego, California
7.Seattle, Washington
8.Portland, Oregon
9.Denver, Colorado
10.Los Angeles, California

Cities with highest crime, 2009

1.Detroit, Michigan
2.Memphis, Tennessee
3.Baltimore, Maryland
4.Washington, DC
5.Atlanta, Georgia
6.Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7.Indianapolis, Indiana
8.Columbus, Ohio
9.Milwaukee, Wisconsin
10.Dallas, Texas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10779151

I'm not sure I believe this list. I live in the Indianapolis area and lived in Indianapolis itself for several years and I don't get the feeling that the crime is all that bad here.

[Everett]

Why am i not happy that were in the top 10?

[mikemarrs]

well my city is the second most dangerous

[squirt1]

I heard on WLS last week-The Roe Conn show- that Chicago has 60 shootings a day. He is afraid if the Mayor doesn't wake up it will kill the downtown shops and restaurants.

[Don]

America's safest cities, 2009

1.Honolulu, Hawaii
2.El Paso, Texas
3.New York City, New York
4.San Jose, California
5.Austin, Texas
6.San Diego, California
7.Seattle, Washington
8.Portland, Oregon
9.Denver, Colorado
10.Los Angeles, California

Cities with highest crime, 2009

1.Detroit, Michigan
2.Memphis, Tennessee
3.Baltimore, Maryland
4.Washington, DC
5.Atlanta, Georgia
6.Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7.Indianapolis, Indiana
8.Columbus, Ohio
9.Milwaukee, Wisconsin
10.Dallas, Texas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10779151

I'm not sure I believe this list. I live in the Indianapolis area and lived in Indianapolis itself for several years and I don't get the feeling that the crime is all that bad here.

This is the source for the rankings.

http://os.cqpress.com/rankings/2010/Cit ... -2009.html

[steveo777]

I see that the Feds have fucked up AZ's new law. Fucking pussies!
We are never gonna get a handle on illegal immigration until these weak fucks grow some balls.
Disgusting!
I have to give AZ kudos for at least having the guts to go there and make the law in the first place.
I'm just sorry it could not take effect. I agreed with most of the law.

[AlteredDNA]

America's safest cities, 2009

1.Honolulu, Hawaii
2.El Paso, Texas
3.New York City, New York
4.San Jose, California
5.Austin, Texas
6.San Diego, California
7.Seattle, Washington
8.Portland, Oregon
9.Denver, Colorado
10.Los Angeles, California

Cities with highest crime, 2009

1.Detroit, Michigan
2.Memphis, Tennessee
3.Baltimore, Maryland
4.Washington, DC
5.Atlanta, Georgia
6.Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7.Indianapolis, Indiana
8.Columbus, Ohio
9.Milwaukee, Wisconsin
10.Dallas, Texas

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10779151

I'm not sure I believe this list. I live in the Indianapolis area and lived in Indianapolis itself for several years and I don't get the feeling that the crime is all that bad here.

This is the source for the rankings.

http://os.cqpress.com/rankings/2010/Cit ... -2009.html

Can't tell what criteria they used without buying the book I guess...

New Orleans is not in the highest crime top 10, which causes me to questions the numbers as well...

[Hollywood]

I see that the Feds have fucked up AZ's new law. Fucking pussies!
We are never gonna get a handle on illegal immigration until these weak fucks grow some balls.
Disgusting!
I have to give AZ kudos for at least having the guts to go there and make the law in the first place.
I'm just sorry it could not take effect. I agreed with most of the law.

I did too. Unfortunately, the part that I had a problem with is what brought it down.

[steveo777]

I see that the Feds have fucked up AZ's new law. Fucking pussies!
We are never gonna get a handle on illegal immigration until these weak fucks grow some balls.
Disgusting!
I have to give AZ kudos for at least having the guts to go there and make the law in the first place.
I'm just sorry it could not take effect. I agreed with most of the law.

I did too. Unfortunately, the part that I had a problem with is what brought it down.

What I disagree with is the police not having the right to check their immigration status if they are stopped for something else.
The main part of the law that I disagreed with would be police stopping someone because they are Hispanic and look like they could be illegals.

[AlteredDNA]

I see that the Feds have fucked up AZ's new law. Fucking pussies!
We are never gonna get a handle on illegal immigration until these weak fucks grow some balls.
Disgusting!
I have to give AZ kudos for at least having the guts to go there and make the law in the first place.
I'm just sorry it could not take effect. I agreed with most of the law.

I did too. Unfortunately, the part that I had a problem with is what brought it down.

What I disagree with is the police not having the right to check their immigration status if they are stopped for something else.
The main part of the law that I disagreed with would be police stopping someone because they are Hispanic and look like they could be illegals.

Nothing in the law specifies or even allows that...

[mikemarrs]

i live in memphis where not even high profile people are immune to getting killed.....

this happened today.....


The mysterious disappearance of former NBA player and Memphis star Lorenzen Wright took a tragic twist on Wednesday. A law enforcement source confirmed that Wright's body was discovered Wednesday in the southeast part of the city, the Commercial-Appeal reported.

The same source told the paper they are checking into a 911 hangup call from Wright's cellphone left Monday morning -- the day he disappeared.



Wright likely had a lot of cash on him when he was last seen leaving his ex-wife's Collierville, TN, home, fueling concerns he may be the victim of foul play, according to a Collierville police report released today.

Wright, the seventh overall pick in the 1996 NBA Draft by the Los Angeles Clippers, flew in from Atlanta to Memphis to visit friends and his six children, friends told the newspaper.

He was scheduled to catch a ride back to the Atlanta area July 19 with a buddy with his six kids in tow. He was last seen in the wee hours of that morning, at about 2 a.m., leaving his ex-wife's home. His former wife, Sherra Robinson Wright, 39, told police she doesn't know who he left with or what type of car they were in, according to the missing person's report.

[artist4perry]

Sad thing is that immigration laws would protect the families coming here to work too. Coyotes abuse and hurt these people that just want to support their family in a corrupt government. They extort and abuse them. A woman's husband was shot to death who lived on the border in AZ. I watched her tell her story. It was heart breaking. It is the evil people I want out of here. Make a work visa and get the monsters from that country back over the border.

[Hollywood]

I see that the Feds have fucked up AZ's new law. Fucking pussies!
We are never gonna get a handle on illegal immigration until these weak fucks grow some balls.
Disgusting!
I have to give AZ kudos for at least having the guts to go there and make the law in the first place.
I'm just sorry it could not take effect. I agreed with most of the law.

I did too. Unfortunately, the part that I had a problem with is what brought it down.

What I disagree with is the police not having the right to check their immigration status if they are stopped for something else.
The main part of the law that I disagreed with would be police stopping someone because they are Hispanic and look like they could be illegals.

Nothing in the law specifies or even allows that...

You're right nothing in the law allows them to pull someone over or detain them just for suspecting they are illegal.

Any police officer has the right to inquire of a person's immigration status with the laws we have now. The problem is that we have no way to enforce the law. Arizona can detain them and imprison them for being here illegally in Arizona prisons at Arizona's expense. It cannot deport them however. That will still be left to ICE who does not have the resources to deport them at the volume that enforcing our current laws would.

My friend is a Nevada State Trooper and he pulled a big Budget Rental truck over that was filled with over 100 illegals and even the drivers were illegals. He called immigration to have them deported and was told that they were not interested. He cited them for a moving violation and that was it.

My belief is that we do not need new laws, we need to enforce the laws on the books.

[Deb]

Myth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeWG6YG2 ... =1&index=8

Wrong border???

[squirt1]

AZ Sheriff has a million $ bounty on him. The nerve of those drug cartels. They are well armed thugs. This Congress should all be replaced for not protecting our borders. The Army should be there. Meanwhile ,they have the nerve to use the term War on Drugs. Oh, they don't want to offend the Hispanic vote,many of which are cast by illegals.

[wednesday's child]

AZ Sheriff has a million $ bounty on him. The nerve of those drug cartels. They are well armed thugs. This Congress should all be replaced for not protecting our borders. The Army should be there. Meanwhile ,they have the nerve to use the term War on Drugs. Oh, they don't want to offend the Hispanic vote,many of which are cast by illegals.

Some are spinning it as false: mere disinformation intended to help justify a tougher border law.

[slucero]

AZ Sheriff has a million $ bounty on him. The nerve of those drug cartels. They are well armed thugs. This Congress should all be replaced for not protecting our borders. The Army should be there. Meanwhile ,they have the nerve to use the term War on Drugs. Oh, they don't want to offend the Hispanic vote,many of which are cast by illegals.

Some are spinning it as false: mere disinformation intended to help justify a tougher border law.

I guess the 30% of the prison population that are illegal aliens is also a myth...