FEDERAL JUDGE knocks down PRO 8 in CA...

[RossValoryRocks]

I'm not bitter, I'm pissed off. There's a difference and I wonder if people said the same thing about women when they were trying to be treated equally or African Americans or other minorities? I don't care how people view the gay community as long as we're treated equally and fairly under the law, that's all that matters.

Go suck a dick, swallow a gallon of jizz, get your asshole streched out and a wad blown in your eye...if thats what make it great for you then ENJOY!

If you love someone you should be able to spend the rest of your life with them without the fear that you will be denied the same protections as hertrosexuals have.

Prop 8 had to go...it was as bad as the jim crow laws that oppressed the blacks for years.

[StevePerryHair]

An incredible victory for the GLBT community! I'm glad our United States Constitution was upheld in this case and the majority was not allowed to rule the minority.



Hey -- easy. You want equality, it wouldn't hurt you to show it. That post reeks of the same smug and bitter judgement that I'm sure you've had to fight in your life.

bobby's bitter about a lot of things it seems like! He throws a lot of hate around here for someone who doesn't want hate thrown at him maybe he just gets defensive. Who knows. But it just gives people more ammo against the gay community it seems, with that kind of attitude. Stooping to an equal hate level.

I'm not bitter, I'm pissed off. There's a difference and I wonder if people said the same thing about women when they were trying to be treated equally or African Americans or other minorities? I don't care how people view the gay community as long as we're treated equally and fairly under the law, that's all that matters.

It's not your belief that makes me think you are bitter. I am not against you. It's just the way you word things. The hate you give back in words. That's what Im referring to. Respect is a 2 way street and you won't get it by giving disrepect back, that's for sure. That might be what Rhi meant.

[BobbyinTN]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

We are a republic, not a democracy.

If some states had it their way, slavery would be alive and well, women would be subservient and not allowed to vote and mix marriages would never be allowed.

Gay marriage hurts no one and for anyone that says it does is simply a parrot or an outright liar who is scared to death of change and progresss.

[RossValoryRocks]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

Here is where you are wrong...the government ONLY governs via the consent of the governed...NEVER the other way around...that is the path to tyranny.

What you are saying is the EXACT opposite of what you REALLY think...why...what if in 50 years the Federal Government says that homosexuality is wrong and then manages to get it declared criminal and the courts of that day back them up???? Regardless of what the GOVERNED really want??? Kind of like HEALTHCARE now.

[BobbyinTN]

An incredible victory for the GLBT community! I'm glad our United States Constitution was upheld in this case and the majority was not allowed to rule the minority.



Hey -- easy. You want equality, it wouldn't hurt you to show it. That post reeks of the same smug and bitter judgement that I'm sure you've had to fight in your life.

bobby's bitter about a lot of things it seems like! He throws a lot of hate around here for someone who doesn't want hate thrown at him maybe he just gets defensive. Who knows. But it just gives people more ammo against the gay community it seems, with that kind of attitude. Stooping to an equal hate level.

I'm not bitter, I'm pissed off. There's a difference and I wonder if people said the same thing about women when they were trying to be treated equally or African Americans or other minorities? I don't care how people view the gay community as long as we're treated equally and fairly under the law, that's all that matters.

It's not your belief that makes me think you are bitter. I am not against you. It's just the way you word things. The hate you give back in words. That's what Im referring to. Respect is a 2 way street and you won't get it by giving disrepect back, that's for sure. That might be what Rhi meant.

It's impossible to convey emotion on a forum like this. I am stern in real life and yes, it pisses a lot of people off, but you never have to doubt where you stand with me.


I'm not being evil just defending what I think is right and I'm passionate about it.





I don't see you calling out the folks who constantly call me "fag" or other derogatory words and say much worse than I ever have on these forums. Why is that?

[BobbyinTN]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

Here is where you are wrong...the government ONLY governs via the consent of the governed...NEVER the other way around...that is the path to tyranny.

What you are saying is the EXACT opposite of what you REALLY think...why...what if in 50 years the Federal Government says that homosexuality is wrong and then manages to get it declared criminal and the courts of that day back them up???? Regardless of what the GOVERNED really want??? Kind of like HEALTHCARE now.

That's twisted logic. It's like the people who say, "if gays can marry, then what's to stop people from marrying dogs". Well, as far as I know, there are male and female dogs, so why haven't human men already been marrying female dogs?

And no, the government is suppose to govern according to the Constitution and the 14th amendment with the treaty of tripoli insure there is never tyranny of the majority or that America is ruled by theological views.

[RossValoryRocks]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

Here is where you are wrong...the government ONLY governs via the consent of the governed...NEVER the other way around...that is the path to tyranny.

What you are saying is the EXACT opposite of what you REALLY think...why...what if in 50 years the Federal Government says that homosexuality is wrong and then manages to get it declared criminal and the courts of that day back them up???? Regardless of what the GOVERNED really want??? Kind of like HEALTHCARE now.

That's twisted logic. It's like the people who say, "if gays can marry, then what's to stop people from marrying dogs". Well, as far as I know, there are male and female dogs, so why haven't human men already been marrying female dogs?

And no, the government is suppose to govern according to the Constitution and the 14th amendment with the treaty of tripoli insure there is never tyranny of the majority or that America is ruled by theological views.

The government derives is power from the consent of the governed. PERIOD Bobby. I am on your side here...but you are LOST when it comes this stuff.

Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html

[StevePerryHair]

An incredible victory for the GLBT community! I'm glad our United States Constitution was upheld in this case and the majority was not allowed to rule the minority.



Hey -- easy. You want equality, it wouldn't hurt you to show it. That post reeks of the same smug and bitter judgement that I'm sure you've had to fight in your life.

bobby's bitter about a lot of things it seems like! He throws a lot of hate around here for someone who doesn't want hate thrown at him maybe he just gets defensive. Who knows. But it just gives people more ammo against the gay community it seems, with that kind of attitude. Stooping to an equal hate level.

I'm not bitter, I'm pissed off. There's a difference and I wonder if people said the same thing about women when they were trying to be treated equally or African Americans or other minorities? I don't care how people view the gay community as long as we're treated equally and fairly under the law, that's all that matters.

It's not your belief that makes me think you are bitter. I am not against you. It's just the way you word things. The hate you give back in words. That's what Im referring to. Respect is a 2 way street and you won't get it by giving disrepect back, that's for sure. That might be what Rhi meant.

It's impossible to convey emotion on a forum like this. I am stern in real life and yes, it pisses a lot of people off, but you never have to doubt where you stand with me.


I'm not being evil just defending what I think is right and I'm passionate about it.





I don't see you calling out the folks who constantly call me "fag" or other derogatory words and say much worse than I ever have on these forums. Why is that?

I don't like that either. But to me, when I see you use the words you do back, all it does is feed their stereotype and makes them feel more valid in their thoughts. They will never hear you or your message if you are giving them a level of disrespect back. I guess I expect you to be the bigger man maybe? To show them that you aren't someone they SHOULD fear that much? Because you aren't. And you should be really happy, especially in this case because this is something that should have you so happy what they say shouldn't mean a damned thing!!!

[BobbyinTN]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

And no, the government is suppose to govern according to the Constitution and the 14th amendment with the treaty of tripoli insure there is never tyranny of the majority or that America is ruled by theological views.

The government derives is power from the consent of the governed. PERIOD Bobby. I am on your side here...but you are LOST when it comes this stuff.

Man, you're one of my favorite people, but I think depending on which side of the aisle you lean kind of forms your opinion about what government can and can't do.

The Preamble to the Constitution says it all. "promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty".

[RossValoryRocks]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

And no, the government is suppose to govern according to the Constitution and the 14th amendment with the treaty of tripoli insure there is never tyranny of the majority or that America is ruled by theological views.

The government derives is power from the consent of the governed. PERIOD Bobby. I am on your side here...but you are LOST when it comes this stuff.

Man, you're one of my favorite people, but I think depending on which side of the aisle you lean kind of forms your opinion about what government can and can't do.

The Preamble to the Constitution says it all. "promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty".

Again...The declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Bolded it so you don't miss it...the same people give or take a few...wrote the Constitution.

[BobbyinTN]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

And no, the government is suppose to govern according to the Constitution and the 14th amendment with the treaty of tripoli insure there is never tyranny of the majority or that America is ruled by theological views.

The government derives is power from the consent of the governed. PERIOD Bobby. I am on your side here...but you are LOST when it comes this stuff.

Man, you're one of my favorite people, but I think depending on which side of the aisle you lean kind of forms your opinion about what government can and can't do.

The Preamble to the Constitution says it all. "promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty".

Again...The declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Bolded it so you don't miss it...the same people give or take a few...wrote the Constitution.

What defines "destructive" and who is the judge of that?

[RossValoryRocks]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

And no, the government is suppose to govern according to the Constitution and the 14th amendment with the treaty of tripoli insure there is never tyranny of the majority or that America is ruled by theological views.

The government derives is power from the consent of the governed. PERIOD Bobby. I am on your side here...but you are LOST when it comes this stuff.

Man, you're one of my favorite people, but I think depending on which side of the aisle you lean kind of forms your opinion about what government can and can't do.

The Preamble to the Constitution says it all. "promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty".

Again...The declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Bolded it so you don't miss it...the same people give or take a few...wrote the Constitution.

What defines "destructive" and who is the judge of that?

WE define what is destructive, and WE are the judges...the people...hence the WE THE PEOPLE at the beginning of the Constitution...meaning that the GOVERNED gave the rights granted to the government in the Constitution to the government.

The Government doesn't give us rights...WE cede rights to government to act in our behalf.

[Rhiannon]

I'm not bitter, I'm pissed off. There's a difference and I wonder if people said the same thing about women when they were trying to be treated equally or African Americans or other minorities? I don't care how people view the gay community as long as we're treated equally and fairly under the law, that's all that matters.

It's not your belief that makes me think you are bitter. I am not against you. It's just the way you word things. The hate you give back in words. That's what Im referring to. Respect is a 2 way street and you won't get it by giving disrepect back, that's for sure. That might be what Rhi meant.

That is exactly what I meant Lynn. I was giving Bobby benefit of the doubt to read between the lines of what I was inferring, but since it went right over his head I'll just say what I mean. Bobby's a hypocrite and it has nothing to do with his genital preferences. And I guess it's my right as a now free woman who can vote and work and whatever dumb bullshit he was referencing in his futile attempt at counterpointing his bitterness to have that opinion.

[BobbyinTN]

Bottom line folks is this, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT has every right to step in and dictate what laws should govern the citizens of the United States.

WE define what is destructive, and WE are the judges...the people...hence the WE THE PEOPLE at the beginning of the Constitution...meaning that the GOVERNED gave the rights granted to the government in the Constitution to the government.

The Government doesn't give us rights...WE cede rights to government to act in our behalf.

Ross, come on. If the people truly decided don't you think Christianity would already rule all of America and we'd be sitting in church every Sunday, (which is the wrong day by the way) and forced to obey the majority.

No, we have judges and the SCOTUS to make sure things are evened out .

[BobbyinTN]

That is exactly what I meant Lynn. I was giving Bobby benefit of the doubt to read between the lines of what I was inferring, but since it went right over his head I'll just say what I mean. Bobby's a hypocrite and it has nothing to do with his genital preferences. And I guess it's my right as a now free woman who can vote and work and whatever dumb bullshit he was referencing in his futile attempt at counterpointing his bitterness to have that opinion.

Nothing went over my head, I just didn't fall for it.

I think you need to look up the defintion of hypocrite.

[conversationpc]

Nothing went over my head, I just didn't fall for it.

I think you need to look up the defintion of hypocrite.

Bobby, take the criticism for what it is. I've known Rhiannon on here for several years now and she certainly isn't a hypocrite.

[Angel]

I think you need to look up the defintion of hypocrite.

I think you all need to learn to use the quote function properly!!!

[Behshad]

I'm not bitter, I'm pissed off. There's a difference and I wonder if people said the same thing about women when they were trying to be treated equally or African Americans or other minorities? I don't care how people view the gay community as long as we're treated equally and fairly under the law, that's all that matters.

It's not your belief that makes me think you are bitter. I am not against you. It's just the way you word things. The hate you give back in words. That's what Im referring to. Respect is a 2 way street and you won't get it by giving disrepect back, that's for sure. That might be what Rhi meant.

That is exactly what I meant Lynn. I was giving Bobby benefit of the doubt to read between the lines of what I was inferring, but since it went right over his head I'll just say what I mean. Bobby's a hypocrite and it has nothing to do with his genital preferences. And I guess it's my right as a now free woman who can vote and work and whatever dumb bullshit he was referencing in his futile attempt at counterpointing his bitterness to have that opinion.

Ding ding ding ding !!!

[RossValoryRocks]

WE define what is destructive, and WE are the judges...the people...hence the WE THE PEOPLE at the beginning of the Constitution...meaning that the GOVERNED gave the rights granted to the government in the Constitution to the government.

The Government doesn't give us rights...WE cede rights to government to act in our behalf.

Ross, come on. If the people truly decided don't you think Christianity would already rule all of America and we'd be sitting in church every Sunday, (which is the wrong day by the way) and forced to obey the majority.

No, we have judges and the SCOTUS to make sure things are evened out .

No...I don't think so...I think the framers were smarter than that...I think they worked much out in the Constitution,as best they could, to stop the tyranny of the majority.

The SCOTUS is one of those things...a balancing act between the various branches of government.

But the people decide...ultimately...go reread the D of I, all of it...and see why the framers began a rebellion, and ultimately why the Constitution was drafted as it was.

[BobbyinTN]

I'm out. Early day tomorrow. The ruling today from California was monumental but it is only the beginning of a huge victory in America for equal rights for all Americans, not just the heterosexual ones.

Congrats to all my GLBT brothers and sisters.

[BobbyinTN]

WE define what is destructive, and WE are the judges...the people...hence the WE THE PEOPLE at the beginning of the Constitution...meaning that the GOVERNED gave the rights granted to the government in the Constitution to the government.

The Government doesn't give us rights...WE cede rights to government to act in our behalf.

Ross, come on. If the people truly decided don't you think Christianity would already rule all of America and we'd be sitting in church every Sunday, (which is the wrong day by the way) and forced to obey the majority.

No, we have judges and the SCOTUS to make sure things are evened out .

No...I don't think so...I think the framers were smarter than that...I think they worked much out in the Constitution,as best they could, to stop the tyranny of the majority.

The SCOTUS is one of those things...a balancing act between the various branches of government.

But the people decide...ultimately...go reread the D of I, all of it...and see why the framers began a rebellion, and ultimately why the Constitution was drafted as it was.

I read it man, but it still doesn't mean it's absolute. If it were, we'd get to vote on taxes, term limits, and many other issues that "we the people" have no control over.

[RossValoryRocks]

WE define what is destructive, and WE are the judges...the people...hence the WE THE PEOPLE at the beginning of the Constitution...meaning that the GOVERNED gave the rights granted to the government in the Constitution to the government.

The Government doesn't give us rights...WE cede rights to government to act in our behalf.

Ross, come on. If the people truly decided don't you think Christianity would already rule all of America and we'd be sitting in church every Sunday, (which is the wrong day by the way) and forced to obey the majority.

No, we have judges and the SCOTUS to make sure things are evened out .

No...I don't think so...I think the framers were smarter than that...I think they worked much out in the Constitution,as best they could, to stop the tyranny of the majority.

The SCOTUS is one of those things...a balancing act between the various branches of government.
But the people decide...ultimately...go reread the D of I, all of it...and see why the framers began a rebellion, and ultimately why the Constitution was drafted as it was.

I read it man, but it still doesn't mean it's absolute. If it were, we'd get to vote on taxes, term limits, and many other issues that "we the people" have no control over.

Oh we do get to vote on it...via whom we elect to office...and so on and so forth...

[Rhiannon]

Nothing went over my head, I just didn't fall for it.

I think you need to look up the defintion of hypocrite.

Bobby, take the criticism for what it is. I've known Rhiannon on here for several years now and she certainly isn't a hypocrite.

Thanks Dave. I think everyone harbors hypocritical tendencies, but the indifference or inabaility to see them is the true problem. Regardless, I appreciate it. You're one of the most decent people I've met here.

To Bobby, I was trying to help you gain understanding in presenting your side on the matter as you're the only one in this thread representing your community. That is what went over your head. Let go of the hate.

[Behshad]

It's people like Bobby with their hatred who give the gay community the bad reputation and cause more hatred than actually helping people to accept them.
Bobby , I'd tell you to go fuck yourself , but we all know you'd take it as a compliment. I don't have a problem with your lifestyle. It's your hate towards anyone with any opinions that doesn't match yours that I got problems with. .

[conversationpc]

I think everyone harbors hypocritical tendencies, but the indifference or inabaility to see them is the true problem.

You're right and I've said that on this forum before. EVERYONE is hypocritical in some area of their life to one degree or another. It's part of the human condition, i.e. "sin".

[Behshad]

I think everyone harbors hypocritical tendencies, but the indifference or inabaility to see them is the true problem.

You're right and I've said that on this forum before. EVERYONE is hypocritical in some area of their life to one degree or another. It's part of the human condition, i.e. "sin".

Surely you meant EVERYONE, BUT ANDREW

[RossValoryRocks]

Bobby to put it simply...

The government doesn't give us rights...we are born with them...If it was the other way around and the government gave us rights...then they could take them away...which isn't how it supposed to be...

[bluejeangirl76]

genital preferences.

band name!

[slucero]

The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land..

Article. VI.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment 10

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I'm thinking Amendment 14 makes it pretty clear, and because its in the Constitution, Amendment 10 prohibits the States from legislating it..

States lose.

[rockinfayrose]

This is America, a free country, for goodness sake - you would think individuals gay & straight alike would automatically have the same rights to love who they want to love and marry who they want to marry without all these debates, bans, props, discrimination and other such nonsense. Prejudice and limitations placed on others makes me angry