Should the Mosque at Ground Zero be allowed

[conversationpc]

If America cared about "bad taste" the Shrub would have never put on that flight gear and shouted "misson accomplished".

Ah, the gold standard in diversionary tactics...When in doubt, always blame Bush.

I'm just sayin'. If you're gonna bring up "bad taste", all is fair. Ain't it?

I'm not a Bush apologist, so no.

[conversationpc]

Ditto to everything Monker said.

First of all it's not a mosque.

It's an Islamic Cultural Center AND a mosque. Whoop-de-do.

Secondly, it's not at the World Trade Center site.

No one said that it's smack dab in the middle of the site.

This should be a non-issue if we truly have religious freedom in this country. The problem is that the rethugs make an issue of anything that they can get their christian (self)right(eous) base stirred up about even if it means ignoring the Constitution that they claim to guard religiously.

Well, your only problem here is that even nearly two-thirds of Democrats are against it for the same reason so, sorry, but the "rethugs" argument won't work here. Try again.

As I've said about a half dozen times in this thread, no one's arguing whether or not it's legal to do this. The argument is over whether it's the RIGHT thing to do. Self righteousness doesn't really run on one side of the political spectrum, now does it?

[BobbyinTN]

If America cared about "bad taste" the Shrub would have never put on that flight gear and shouted "misson accomplished".

Ah, the gold standard in diversionary tactics...When in doubt, always blame Bush.

I'm just sayin'. If you're gonna bring up "bad taste", all is fair. Ain't it?

I'm not a Bush apologist, so no.

But the example is 100% correct. It seems each time something like this comes up conservatives say, "what will the rest of the world think", but when Bush was in office, every conservative suddenly started saying "fuck the rest of the world". Now which is it, you either care about what the world thinks or you don't?

Bush offended every country in the world and I still don't see the Bush supporters taking responsiblity for that or even acknowledging it.


This is a free country and if the codes are there and it's legal to do it, they should be allowed to build their church or house or worship wherever they please.

When I can buy liquor on Sunday, then we can talk about fair and all that other bullshit that Christians seem to think is right for them but wrong for others.

[conversationpc]

This is a free country and if the codes are there and it's legal to do it, they should be allowed to build their church or house or worship wherever they please.

Listen up all morons...NO ONE SAYS IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL! THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO SO PER THE LAW. Hello...Is anyone at home?

When I can buy liquor on Sunday, then we can talk about fair and all that other bullshit that Christians seem to think is right for them but wrong for others.

And tell me again about how you don't judge others?

[BobbyinTN]

This is a free country and if the codes are there and it's legal to do it, they should be allowed to build their church or house or worship wherever they please.

Listen up all morons...NO ONE SAYS IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL! THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO SO PER THE LAW. Hello...Is anyone at home?

When I can buy liquor on Sunday, then we can talk about fair and all that other bullshit that Christians seem to think is right for them but wrong for others.

And tell me again about how you don't judge others?

Okay, you and Donnaplease need to understand the difference in people and religion. I love people. I hate religion and the bullshit that goes along with it.

[conversationpc]

Okay, you and Donnaplease need to understand the difference in people and religion. I love people. I hate religion and the bullshit that goes along with it.

Garbage...Unless a person states otherwise, the religion is not separable from the person. It's a part of who they are. Hence your judgmental attitude towards people of faith. Stop with the mental gymnastics and just fess up already that you might actually be judgmental towards a segment of society.

[Monker]

I don't care how it gets built or who builds it. The fact is that this is America and they have the Constitutional right to do it. In fact, since the asinine Republicans have decided to make it such an issue, I hope they build it regardless of any opposition or national feelings that have absolutely no relevance to what is going on in that community.

That doesn't make it proper and building it is in bad taste, but apparently some people are oblivious to this fact, you included.

It is hypocritical for this nation to be so proud of it's Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, and general history of liberty to now deny freedom of religion. It is also embarrassing for Republicans, who claim to be so patriotic, to now act like whiny liberals over an issue of such clear exercise of those same liberties. It is CLEAR that Republicans only believe in the Constitution when it suits their political needs.

Freedom of Religion doesn't mean that there is a "Right" to build your "house of worship" anywhere you want.[/quote]

Excuse me but you, and the government, are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of religious belief. THAT maikes it their RIGHT to build what they want to on that site...and a violation of the Constitution if they are not allowed to do so solely because they are Muslim.

[BobbyinTN]

Okay, you and Donnaplease need to understand the difference in people and religion. I love people. I hate religion and the bullshit that goes along with it.

Garbage...Unless a person states otherwise, the religion is not separable from the person. It's a part of who they are. Hence your judgmental attitude towards people of faith. Stop with the mental gymnastics and just fess up already that you might actually be judgmental towards a segment of society.

Can't do it. If I say I hate all Christians, that wouldn't be true. If I say I hate all Muslims, that wouldn't be true, but I can hate their religion. Religion is a choice and no more a part of someone than the clothes they wear. They want to believe in something, that's cool, they want me to believe in the same thing, that's bullshit.

I am human and do find myself passing judgement on some religious zealots, but then I think it's probably just ignorance and they don't know any better, so again, it goes back to the religion, not the person.

[Monker]

No one said that it's smack dab in the middle of the site.

No, you just want to ACT like it is. The thought process on why this should not happen is absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical. All it is is pushing people's buttons for political gain, at the expense of the Constitution.

Well, your only problem here is that even nearly two-thirds of Democrats are against it for the same reason so, sorry, but the "rethugs" argument won't work here. Try again.

I don't care if every member of Congress is against it. The Democrats are pussies who can't stand up to anything. The Republicans are button pushers who are now out of power and are desperate to get it back. So, I don't give a damn what some political poll shows.

As I've said about a half dozen times in this thread, no one's arguing whether or not it's legal to do this. The argument is over whether it's the RIGHT thing to do. Self righteousness doesn't really run on one side of the political spectrum, now does it?

It doesn't matter if it is the 'right' thing to do or not. This is a local issue that has been brought to national attention by Republicans for political gain. That is the simple truth of the matter. It's a bullshit tactic by a desperate party who will do anything to generate negative attention towards the party in power...in this case, at the expense of the Constitution. I say that is wrong - VERY wrong.

[SF-Dano]

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Again - Where does it say here that a group has the right to build their house of worship wherever they want.. If you use the "free exercise" as an example - I don't think the government or the people for that matter right now would stop them from peacfully assebling and praying at the site. You don't need a building to assemble and pray. Just a permit

[lights1961]

I am still thinking at this moment in time, the mosque shouldnt be built, at that location... in time we will heal as a nation in full about what went down on 9.11... but for now, you still have really really emotional wounds of people who lost loved ones... Monker go ahead and build it... if you must... but in my opinon for now is that if its built.... the extreme musilum world will declare that they won the war on terror... on our own soil... and do you really want that??? I mean this is an amazing case of BE CAREFUL what you want and wish for...

[conversationpc]

No one said that it's smack dab in the middle of the site.

No, you just want to ACT like it is. The thought process on why this should not happen is absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical. All it is is pushing people's buttons for political gain, at the expense of the Constitution.

Tell the families who lost people there and see if they think it's ridiculous and nonsensical. It's not political to them.

I don't care if every member of Congress is against it. The Democrats are pussies who can't stand up to anything. The Republicans are button pushers who are now out of power and are desperate to get it back. So, I don't give a damn what some political poll shows.

You dumped on Republicans for the most when this issue is, in fact, not a partisan one. Make up your mind.

It doesn't matter if it is the 'right' thing to do or not. This is a local issue that has been brought to national attention by Republicans for political gain. That is the simple truth of the matter. It's a bullshit tactic by a desperate party who will do anything to generate negative attention towards the party in power...in this case, at the expense of the Constitution. I say that is wrong - VERY wrong.

It's no longer just a local issue but, yes, most important is what the local folks think and most of them feel the same way, if not in a stronger fashion. And once again...NO ONE is saying it's not constitutional. I'm not supportive of the force of government being used to keep the mosque from being built but I do think it's not the morally right thing to do.

[conversationpc]

Also, there is no Constitutional Right to build that Mosque on that site. It's a local zoning decision period, anyone who says otherwise doesn't know the law very well. Churches and Crosses and Rocks with the 10 Commandments engraved in them are denied placement every damn day.

Actually, if the zoning laws were to keep the mosque from being built simply because it's a religious structure, that would definitely be unconstitutional.

[lights1961]

I GOT IT... PUT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS NEXT TO THE MOSQUE about the same height and width...
lets let the liberals trash the ten commandments and go pray in the mosque ( i mean community center.) ... HAHAHA....

[RossValoryRocks]

It is absolutely within their rights to build on the site if the want to...the government has no right to tell them no...PERIOD. If we are a nation of laws then those have to apply equally to all people in all situations.

Now if you want to debate if it is smart for them to do so, that's fair game...and my opinion is that it is not smart to build there. It will do NOTHING to promote a reconcilliation between people...just the opposite.

[bluejeangirl76]

It is absolutely within their rights to build on the site if the want to...the government has no right to tell them no...PERIOD. If we are a nation of laws then those have to apply equally to all people in all situations.

Now if you want to debate if it is smart for them to do so, that's fair game...and my opinion is that it is not smart to build there. It will do NOTHING to promote a reconcilliation between people...just the opposite.

Correctamundo. Gold star for Stu.

[artist4perry]

Some things just fall under the heading of decency. The most respectful and kind thing they could do is build it somewhere else, in order to cause harmony in the community. Sad that they could not see that building a Christian church right next to a Mosque at Downtown Bagdad would cause a blood bath. Double standard.

[conversationpc]

It is absolutely within their rights to build on the site if the want to...the government has no right to tell them no...PERIOD. If we are a nation of laws then those have to apply equally to all people in all situations.

Now if you want to debate if it is smart for them to do so, that's fair game...and my opinion is that it is not smart to build there. It will do NOTHING to promote a reconcilliation between people...just the opposite.

That's what just about everyone who is against building it is saying.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It is absolutely within their rights to build on the site if the want to...the government has no right to tell them no...PERIOD. If we are a nation of laws then those have to apply equally to all people in all situations.

Now if you want to debate if it is smart for them to do so, that's fair game...and my opinion is that it is not smart to build there. It will do NOTHING to promote a reconcilliation between people...just the opposite.

Well said. Nice to see some ideological consistency around these parts. You and Dave are to be commended for sticking to your principles over short-term political pandering. Wish more Cons spoke sense like this.

[The_Noble_Cause]

That's what just about everyone who is against building it is saying.

I don't know about that. Check out the poll results. Legal or not, most people I've encountered are dead-set against it being built simply, well, "just because."

[conversationpc]

That's what just about everyone who is against building it is saying.

I don't know about that. Check out the poll results. Legal or not, most people I've encountered are dead-set against it being built simply, well, "just because."

That may be.

[donnaplease]

Okay, you and Donnaplease need to understand the difference in people and religion. I love people. I hate religion and the bullshit that goes along with it.

Garbage...Unless a person states otherwise, the religion is not separable from the person. It's a part of who they are. Hence your judgmental attitude towards people of faith. Stop with the mental gymnastics and just fess up already that you might actually be judgmental towards a segment of society.

Can't do it. If I say I hate all Christians, that wouldn't be true. If I say I hate all Muslims, that wouldn't be true, but I can hate their religion. Religion is a choice and no more a part of someone than the clothes they wear. They want to believe in something, that's cool, they want me to believe in the same thing, that's bullshit.

I am human and do find myself passing judgement on some religious zealots, but then I think it's probably just ignorance and they don't know any better, so again, it goes back to the religion, not the person.

hehehe...

Anyone else find it so freakin' funny how the same ones that BITCH AND WHINE about christians (not judging them as people, of course) are beating their chests about the rights of other religious people to practice their religion? It would really piss me off if it wasn't so hilarious. You people do things to divide people and bring wrath upon yourselves, and then you act like the victim when you're called out about it. Sound familiar, anyone...?

If he wanted to address this issue appropriately, perhaps BO should've told the muslims attending the Ramadan dinner (or whatever it was) that although it was within their legal right to build this MOSQUE in this site, in the interest of peace and sensitivity perhaps they should reconsider the location of it, as the loved ones of the victims of the 9/11 attack (and the majority of Americans) are opposed to the LOCATION, not the right to build it. Of course he isn't going to do that though, because that's not what he's about. If anybody still thinks this man is about uniting our country, I'm here to tell ya you're crazy.

[BobbyinTN]

I GOT IT... PUT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS NEXT TO THE MOSQUE about the same height and width...
lets let the liberals trash the ten commandments and go pray in the mosque ( i mean community center.) ... HAHAHA....

So, this really is about your religion being better than theirs.

[BobbyinTN]

Okay, you and Donnaplease need to understand the difference in people and religion. I love people. I hate religion and the bullshit that goes along with it.

Garbage...Unless a person states otherwise, the religion is not separable from the person. It's a part of who they are. Hence your judgmental attitude towards people of faith. Stop with the mental gymnastics and just fess up already that you might actually be judgmental towards a segment of society.

Can't do it. If I say I hate all Christians, that wouldn't be true. If I say I hate all Muslims, that wouldn't be true, but I can hate their religion. Religion is a choice and no more a part of someone than the clothes they wear. They want to believe in something, that's cool, they want me to believe in the same thing, that's bullshit.

I am human and do find myself passing judgement on some religious zealots, but then I think it's probably just ignorance and they don't know any better, so again, it goes back to the religion, not the person.

hehehe...

Anyone else find it so freakin' funny how the same ones that BITCH AND WHINE about christians (not judging them as people, of course) are beating their chests about the rights of other religious people to practice their religion? It would really piss me off if it wasn't so hilarious. You people do things to divide people and bring wrath upon yourselves, and then you act like the victim when you're called out about it. Sound familiar, anyone...?

If he wanted to address this issue appropriately, perhaps BO should've told the muslims attending the Ramadan dinner (or whatever it was) that although it was within their legal right to build this MOSQUE in this site, in the interest of peace and sensitivity perhaps they should reconsider the location of it, as the loved ones of the victims of the 9/11 attack (and the majority of Americans) are opposed to the LOCATION, not the right to build it. Of course he isn't going to do that though, because that's not what he's about. If anybody still thinks this man is about uniting our country, I'm here to tell ya you're crazy.

Grow up!

And "you people"? Really?

Hey Donnaplease, fuck off! And I mean that in the nicest, most non-angry way.

[MCC620]

from what i understand, the st nicholas greek orthodox church that stood at 155 cedar street from 1922 until the day it was destroyed on 9/11 by the tower that stood 250 feet from it, has not been given permission to rebuild nor has it been offered another place to build on...why is this ok?

[JH'sTXfan]

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpps/news/gregg ... fc_9115661

[brywool]

I cannot believe some of the stuff I'm reading here...

Best comments on this that I've heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0

EVERY American should watch it, but because it comes from a "liberal"
many of you won't watch it. It makes great sense. Too bad Obama
didn't use the words this guy did.
Don't fall into the IDIOTIC RHETORIC and fear mongering that's going on.
There is so much wrong information out there about this.

[BobbyinTN]

I GOT IT... PUT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS NEXT TO THE MOSQUE about the same height and width...
lets let the liberals trash the ten commandments and go pray in the mosque ( i mean community center.) ... HAHAHA....

So, this really is about your religion being better than theirs.

It's not "One Nation Under God" just for shits and giggles or a . There's a history to this fight you know?

America was founded on freedom of religion, and the choice for every person to believe as they wished. You limit one religious groups right then you limit them all. That's what America is about.

[BobbyinTN]

I GOT IT... PUT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS NEXT TO THE MOSQUE about the same height and width...
lets let the liberals trash the ten commandments and go pray in the mosque ( i mean community center.) ... HAHAHA....

So, this really is about your religion being better than theirs.

It's not "One Nation Under God" just for shits and giggles or a . There's a history to this fight you know?

America was founded on freedom of religion, and the choice for every person to believe as they wished. You limit one religious groups right then you limit them all. That's what America is about.

You aren't paying attention. Religious freedoms have been under assualt in this Country for the last 40 plus years. All kinds. This is no different if you want to be fair. Which you probably do not.

Please explain before I say something unfair. LOL I need examples of how religion has been under attack.

[BobbyinTN]

I GOT IT... PUT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS NEXT TO THE MOSQUE about the same height and width...
lets let the liberals trash the ten commandments and go pray in the mosque ( i mean community center.) ... HAHAHA....

So, this really is about your religion being better than theirs.

It's not "One Nation Under God" just for shits and giggles or a . There's a history to this fight you know?

America was founded on freedom of religion, and the choice for every person to believe as they wished. You limit one religious groups right then you limit them all. That's what America is about.

You aren't paying attention. Religious freedoms have been under assualt in this Country for the last 40 plus years. All kinds. This is no different if you want to be fair. Which you probably do not.

Please explain before I say something unfair. LOL I need examples of how religion has been under attack.

You need a course in history.

You mean a course in YOUR version of history, right? Religion is not under attack, that's just chum for the religous zealots who WANT to believe that and to have something to bitch about. They'd better be careful because if they continue to try to take the rights of others away, their rights aren't far behind and that's been proven throughout history.