Should the Mosque at Ground Zero be allowed

[stevew2]

Did you know there's a passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people not to pray in public? It was considered boastful and He didn't like it.

Well, that's not quite the whole story, though...You're talking about this passage in the book of Matthew:

Mat 6:5-6 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. (6) But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

However, if Jesus literally meant to always pray only in private then that would make him a hypocrite. He often prayed in public both with his disciples present and others. His disciples, who carried on the faith and started Christianity after him prayed in public. It's also interesting to note that right after the above-quoted passage, Jesus himself then prays in public, teaching them the Lord's prayer.

What I read from that passage is that Jesus is saying these people are praying to get the attention of others...and you should be praying to get the attention of God.

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Thou shalt not lie with man kind as with women kind it is an abomination and they will surely be put to death Leviticus 18:22 .If you are going to quote the Bible go on the LEV.20:13 Ill quote it for you if you try to distort the truth again

And, Jesus commanded you to love your enemies. He entered the company of the lowest of society...tax collectors, prostitute, Romans...and did so with the love and compassion of a father, and gave them the opportunity for salvation.

So, when are you going to ask Bobby to wash your feet, and sit at dinner with him, and tell him you love him?

If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't be quoting scripture...because, as the quote goes, even the devil can quote scripture when it suits his purpose.

His point is justified...the pastors he is talking about are doing exactly as the hypocrites Jesus spoke of by praying for attention of the flock so they get donations so they can become wealthy...instead of praying to God for unselfish reasons, for other people and their well being. Jesus told the rich man to give all of his money to the poor...not to take money from others to become rich.

He is not my enemie, Id wash his feet and buy him a beer,I dont like crooked preachers either,when he says stupid shit and talks about christians without backing up any proof about what he is talking about. I have a problem with that.If he is going to quote the Bible, quote scripture ,not just bits and pieces.Congress got on there hands knees
and prayed before god before every session they met for, sometimes for hours, thats history , like it or not. Look on the dollar bill. In God We Trust. Like it or not thats the way it is ,make fun of christians all you want, thats why this is the best country in the world to live in and why people risk there life to come over here.

[Saint John]

Ohsherrie is, and has always been a huge, and dumb, ****. Monker, too, is an absolute idiot. Both of you would best serve this country ( not to be confused with Ohsherrie being ****) by killing yourselves immediately.

[Babyblue]

I see you are having alot of fun in here.

[conversationpc]

the pastors he is talking about are doing exactly as the hypocrites Jesus spoke of by praying for attention of the flock so they get donations so they can become wealthy...instead of praying to God for unselfish reasons, for other people and their well being. Jesus told the rich man to give all of his money to the poor...not to take money from others to become rich.

Jesus told that to the rich man because the rich man had a problem with loving money more than he did anything else. That doesn't mean he wants EVERYONE to give all their money to the poor.

[conversationpc]

What I read from that passage is that Jesus is saying these people are praying to get the attention of others...and you should be praying to get the attention of God.

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Jesus is a hypocrite then, according to what you're saying, because he goes on, right after that scripture, to PRAY IN PUBLIC with his disciples.

[Rip Rokken]

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Bobby's point is one of the biggest blows against all the public attention seeking some Christians do, from self-serving ministers to society-driven members of the flock. Basically, the point is not to use faith to build an image and garner admiration for yourself. It's absolutely counter to everything the New Testament teaches Christians should be. And Christians aren't the only ones who do this... any time some total hood accepts a music award and thanks "God" first, it comes off pretty self-serving and hollow to me.

I don't think faith has to be kept locked in a closet at all, but you can just tell when people are being self-motivated vs. sincere.

Thou shalt not lie with man kind as with women kind it is an abomination and they will surely be put to death Leviticus 18:22 .if you are going to quote the Bible go on the LEV.20:13 Ill quote it for you if you try to distort the truth again

And, Jesus commanded you to love your enemies. He entered the company of the lowest of society...tax collectors, prostitute, Romans...and did so with the love and compassion of a father, and gave them the opportunity for salvation.

I'll just be blunt -- as much as our modern society doesn't want to face it, there's no way to get around the fact that according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, just the same as murder, lust, etc. etc. etc. There is absolutely no way to use the Bible to justify homosexuality. But it also says it's not the place of Christians to judge others, and Jesus obviously didn't isolate himself from sinners in general, unlike many modern Christians. His own people rejected him, so he turned to the ones who would accept him -- prostitutes, tax collectors, etc. (I'm not picking on homosexuality at all, btw. Paul was also clear that to divide the church into denominations was also wrong, but that's the order of the day in modern Christianity).

I know there have been some modern re-translations of the Bible which take out all that stuff, and if the Bible is supposedly the infallible Word of God, and there is the indication of punishment for people who change the text, then why do people want to continue in a self-modified version of the faith:

Revelation 22:18-19, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

So why then do people do it? Or why do people pick and choose the things they want to focus on and ignore other important issues (like division)? I never got that any more than I got people at AA telling me my higher power could be a doorknob if that's what I wanted. Like I said before, we have amazing ways of creating God into an image we can relate to, whether it's our own image or that of someone else. It's just one of our natural flaws. Example -- people who grew up with overly stern, harsh fathers often tend to envision God the same way, and they torture themselves trying to find ways to please Him. It's just the way we are wired.

I think to go deeper and expand that point further, we as humans really just rely on deceit and self-deception to cope, exist, whatever. On some level we all lie to ourselves and everyone else around us. If it's not conscious, it's subconscious. None of us want to be uncomfortable, none of us want to be punished, none of us want to be held accountable. It's apparently just the way we are made.

So on a faith level, I think the majority of people find whatever is comfortable, or if we are miserable people to start with, we find expressions of faith that keep us miserable. Either way, on some level we pick and choose what we want to believe and what we want to be in denial about. It's just human and we ALL do that to some extent.

[brywool]

Ohsherrie is, and has always been a huge, and dumb, ****. Monker, too, is an absolute idiot. Both of you would best serve this country ( not to be confused with Ohsherrie being ****) by killing yourselves immediately.

WTH???

Because someone doesn't agree with your views, they should off themselves??
Come on man...


I can see how great religion is working for many here.

[Deb]

Ohsherrie is, and has always been a huge, and dumb, ****. Monker, too, is an absolute idiot. Both of you would best serve this country ( not to be confused with Ohsherrie being ****) by killing yourselves immediately.

Once again, another class-act post.

[Rip Rokken]

Ohsherrie is, and has always been a huge, and dumb, ****. Monker, too, is an absolute idiot. Both of you would best serve this country ( not to be confused with Ohsherrie being ****) by killing yourselves immediately.

WTH???

Because someone doesn't agree with your views, they should off themselves??
Come on man...


I can see how great religion is working for many here.

LOL. I'd never recommend anyone do that myself, but I have to say euthanasia as a general policy would certainly make this world an easier place to live. I'd start by toasting most of the Middle East, and then maybe the Hip-Hop community after that.

[BobbyinTN]

Did you know there's a passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people not to pray in public? It was considered boastful and He didn't like it.

Well, that's not quite the whole story, though...You're talking about this passage in the book of Matthew:

Mat 6:5-6 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. (6) But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

However, if Jesus literally meant to always pray only in private then that would make him a hypocrite. He often prayed in public both with his disciples present and others. His disciples, who carried on the faith and started Christianity after him prayed in public. It's also interesting to note that right after the above-quoted passage, Jesus himself then prays in public, teaching them the Lord's prayer.

What I read from that passage is that Jesus is saying these people are praying to get the attention of others...and you should be praying to get the attention of God.

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Thou shalt not lie with man kind as with women kind it is an abomination and they will surely be put to death Leviticus 18:22 .if you are going to quote the Bible go on the LEV.20:13 Ill quote it for you if you try to distort the truth again

You’re the one obsessed with gay sex and everything homosexual. Maybe you should get some help for your situation before you go condemning others.

And I don’t believe in the Bible. But those that do and those that quote it, need to understand it fully instead of picking and choosing what they want to follow and what they want to ignore.

[BobbyinTN]

Did you know there's a passage in the Bible where Jesus tells people not to pray in public? It was considered boastful and He didn't like it.

Well, that's not quite the whole story, though...You're talking about this passage in the book of Matthew:

Mat 6:5-6 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. (6) But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

However, if Jesus literally meant to always pray only in private then that would make him a hypocrite. He often prayed in public both with his disciples present and others. His disciples, who carried on the faith and started Christianity after him prayed in public. It's also interesting to note that right after the above-quoted passage, Jesus himself then prays in public, teaching them the Lord's prayer.

What I read from that passage is that Jesus is saying these people are praying to get the attention of others...and you should be praying to get the attention of God.

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Thou shalt not lie with man kind as with women kind it is an abomination and they will surely be put to death Leviticus 18:22 .if you are going to quote the Bible go on the LEV.20:13 Ill quote it for you if you try to distort the truth again

And, Jesus commanded you to love your enemies. He entered the company of the lowest of society...tax collectors, prostitute, Romans...and did so with the love and compassion of a father, and gave them the opportunity for salvation.

So, when are you going to ask Bobby to wash your feet, and sit at dinner with him, and tell him you love him?

If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't be quoting scripture...because, as the quote goes, even the devil can quote scripture when it suits his purpose.

His point is justified...the pastors he is talking about are doing exactly as the hypocrites Jesus spoke of by praying for attention of the flock so they get donations so they can become wealthy...instead of praying to God for unselfish reasons, for other people and their well being. Jesus told the rich man to give all of his money to the poor...not to take money from others to become rich.

Exactly!

[BobbyinTN]

What I read from that passage is that Jesus is saying these people are praying to get the attention of others...and you should be praying to get the attention of God.

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Jesus is a hypocrite then, according to what you're saying, because he goes on, right after that scripture, to PRAY IN PUBLIC with his disciples.

That simply shows a lack of consistency with the Bible. There are verses and verses that repeat themselves and contradict themselves. However, if Jesus told people NOT to pray in public, that was his order. If Jesus wanted to pray in public or with those who had gathered in his name, well, don't ya think he had that right since he was the son of God? Also, if he was praying with his "disciples", that would have not been the "public" he was speaking of.

I think it's crazy when Christians try to play semantics with the words of the Bible. For ever denomination there's a different interpretation of scripture. If the majority of Christians can't even agree on scripture, how the fuck are they ever going to convince anyone else to do it?

[Monker]

the pastors he is talking about are doing exactly as the hypocrites Jesus spoke of by praying for attention of the flock so they get donations so they can become wealthy...instead of praying to God for unselfish reasons, for other people and their well being. Jesus told the rich man to give all of his money to the poor...not to take money from others to become rich.

Jesus told that to the rich man because the rich man had a problem with loving money more than he did anything else. That doesn't mean he wants EVERYONE to give all their money to the poor.

And, you are saying the pastors that were being talked about in the above post who move from community to community don't? The televangelists who ask for donations like it's some kinda telethon for heaven, don't?

If Jesus were here and saw those type of pastors living such a wealthy lifestyle, and asking for money from people who are in a lower situation then they are, I believe he would say the same thing...in probably a much more damning tone.

[Monker]

Ohsherrie is, and has always been a huge, and dumb, ****. Monker, too, is an absolute idiot. Both of you would best serve this country ( not to be confused with Ohsherrie being ****) by killing yourselves immediately.

Thank you. I feel like I'm back to my normal self.

[BobbyinTN]

But he also says, "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Bobby's point is one of the biggest blows against all the public attention seeking some Christians do, from self-serving ministers to society-driven members of the flock. Basically, the point is not to use faith to build an image and garner admiration for yourself. It's absolutely counter to everything the New Testament teaches Christians should be. And Christians aren't the only ones who do this... any time some total hood accepts a music award and thanks "God" first, it comes off pretty self-serving and hollow to me.

I don't think faith has to be kept locked in a closet at all, but you can just tell when people are being self-motivated vs. sincere.

Thou shalt not lie with man kind as with women kind it is an abomination and they will surely be put to death Leviticus 18:22 .if you are going to quote the Bible go on the LEV.20:13 Ill quote it for you if you try to distort the truth again

And, Jesus commanded you to love your enemies. He entered the company of the lowest of society...tax collectors, prostitute, Romans...and did so with the love and compassion of a father, and gave them the opportunity for salvation.

I'll just be blunt -- as much as our modern society doesn't want to face it, there's no way to get around the fact that according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, just the same as murder, lust, etc. etc. etc. There is absolutely no way to use the Bible to justify homosexuality. But it also says it's not the place of Christians to judge others, and Jesus obviously didn't isolate himself from sinners in general, unlike many modern Christians. His own people rejected him, so he turned to the ones who would accept him -- prostitutes, tax collectors, etc. (I'm not picking on homosexuality at all, btw. Paul was also clear that to divide the church into denominations was also wrong, but that's the order of the day in modern Christianity).

I know there have been some modern re-translations of the Bible which take out all that stuff, and if the Bible is supposedly the infallible Word of God, and there is the indication of punishment for people who change the text, then why do people want to continue in a self-modified version of the faith:

Revelation 22:18-19, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

So why then do people do it? Or why do people pick and choose the things they want to focus on and ignore other important issues (like division)? I never got that any more than I got people at AA telling me my higher power could be a doorknob if that's what I wanted. Like I said before, we have amazing ways of creating God into an image we can relate to, whether it's our own image or that of someone else. It's just one of our natural flaws. Example -- people who grew up with overly stern, harsh fathers often tend to envision God the same way, and they torture themselves trying to find ways to please Him. It's just the way we are wired.

I think to go deeper and expand that point further, we as humans really just rely on deceit and self-deception to cope, exist, whatever. On some level we all lie to ourselves and everyone else around us. If it's not conscious, it's subconscious. None of us want to be uncomfortable, none of us want to be punished, none of us want to be held accountable. It's apparently just the way we are made.

So on a faith level, I think the majority of people find whatever is comfortable, or if we are miserable people to start with, we find expressions of faith that keep us miserable. Either way, on some level we pick and choose what we want to believe and what we want to be in denial about. It's just human and we ALL do that to some extent.

Rip, I love your opinions on this subject.

But actually there are a few Biblical scholars out there who believe the verses in Leviticus and those that Paul wrote had nothing to do with same gender consenting adults who were in relationships.

First, the word homosexual wasn’t coined until the mid to late 1800’s.

Second, no Christian should ever be citing Leviticus as a reference for anything Christian. Leviticus was written for the Jews of the time, specifically Rabbinical students who were being taught how to lead other Jews. Jewish males had to be married by the age of 30, no questions asked, it was the law. Of course there were homosexuals in that day and age and they were forced to marry women just as the heterosexuals were. Those Jewish gays would then visit what were referred to as “temple prostitutes”, males ready to make a buck off the gay Jewish boys who got married. The original language of the Leviticus text made it more clear, but through bad translations, legend and interpretations, it became what it is today.

Jesus himself NEVER said one word about homosexuals. Never condemned them and some believe the slave of the Centurion that Jesus healed was actually the Centurion’s lover. The Greek word the Centurion used to describe his “slave” was pais, which means “same gender partner”.

Here’s more on that story:

http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/b ... ouple.html

And Paul, I mean who could trust that man? LOL He changed his name, he told people they’d be better off not marrying at all and he never seem to marry himself. Things that make you go hmm.

Now, Jesus did have a lot to say about divorce, even saying it was forbidden and the only excuse for it was if the woman cheated and then the woman could never remarry.

Man, the Bible sure is misogynistic, ain’t it? LOL

[BobbyinTN]

Oh, another piece of trivia for you Rip about that verse:

Revelation 22:18-19, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Did you know that was actually written by one of the scribes as a note to other scribes and not meant to end up in the Bible itself?

Those scribes were amazing little creatures. Some of them couldn't even read and were just copying what they saw before them. They were forced to work day and night and most would get tired and leave whole pages out and distort words. It's well documented in the book, "Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed The Bible And Why, by Bart Ehrman. It's an excellent book and I'd enourage anyone who reads to the Bible to read it.

[SF-Dano]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

[Monker]

I'll just be blunt -- as much as our modern society doesn't want to face it, there's no way to get around the fact that according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, just the same as murder, lust, etc. etc. etc.

So what. It's not up tanybody in society to judge people with the law of God. In fact, you are commanded NOT TO.

There is absolutely no way to use the Bible to justify homosexuality.

I'm not. But, I also feel that using that against somebody and quote scripture in a thinly veiled personal attack is also wrong, and very hypocritical.

So on a faith level, I think the majority of people find whatever is comfortable, or if we are miserable people to start with, we find expressions of faith that keep us miserable.

That is human nature. Many people get an opinion in their head and they only allow things into their head that support that opinion, and ignore everything else. That is just the way people are, I think...about everything, not just the Bible.

[BobbyinTN]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I'll never eat lox and bagels again.

[S2M]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

[BobbyinTN]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Living vicariously?

[stevew2]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right now

[BobbyinTN]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right know

Oh look, it's the walking hermorrhoid. Ya know, when they start typing you're beyond help.

[stevew2]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right know

Oh look, it's the walking hermorrhoid. Ya know, when they start typing you're beyond help.

I know you are just dying to pushin in my stool

[BobbyinTN]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right know

Oh look, it's the walking hermorrhoid. Ya know, when they start typing you're beyond help.

I know you are just dying to pushin in my stool

I don't think it's possible to do that to a walking turd. LOL

[stevew2]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right know

Oh look, it's the walking hermorrhoid. Ya know, when they start typing you're beyond help.

I know you are just dying to pushin in my stool

I don't think it's possible to do that to a walking turd. LOL

Lev 18:22

[Monker]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right know

Oh look, it's the walking hermorrhoid. Ya know, when they start typing you're beyond help.

I know you are just dying to pushin in my stool

Well, if you would quit acting like an ass maybe he wouldn't be so attracted to you.

[BobbyinTN]

Wow Bobby you must be one old dude since you claim to know first hand the things "Jesus said".

He was a great story teller, the man wouldn't shut up. LOL

I want to eat cocks and balls again.

There...fixed it for ya!

Ha ha, he is lickin a foot longer right know

Oh look, it's the walking hermorrhoid. Ya know, when they start typing you're beyond help.

I know you are just dying to pushin in my stool

Well, if you would quit acting like an ass maybe he wouldn't be so attracted to you.

I think he just wants to see what it's like. He's one of those 6 packs and he'll do anything kinda guys.

[stevew2]

I dont understand your gay lingo

[BobbyinTN]

I dont understand your gay lingo

Sure ya do. I bet you speak it fluently.