Stephen Hawking says universe not created by God

[YoungJRNY]

I think everyone is entitled to believe exactly as they wish, but I love how Christians think they are "favored".

If there is a God, he is indefinable and no book ever written will ever give you insight into who or what that God is.

I can't believe people would insult the genius of Hawking and then proclaim the Bible is the perfect word of God. LMAO

All one has got to do is take a look around this scum and filth of a world. Take one step outside of your comfort zone and realize and witness how unsafe and downright scary/nightmarish this world actually is. It really is just a mess. If this is the best God could do, then I am NOT impressed.

God created man and gave us free will.

Ok....then if he gave us free will....he gave us free will not to believe in him....and thus getting into 'Heaven' shouldn't be based on believing in him.....And this whole FREE WILL defense by believers is played out....WHY would a supreme being create VERY primitive organisms...then watch from WHEREVER and observe what happens for MILLIONS of years?


I guess its "God's" version of watching flies fuck?

Pretty much what I was going to say VERBATIM. Good thing I checked before I posted. Well said.

[Arianddu]

Someone should roll that motherfucker off a cliff.

Jesus saves.

But Moses invests.

[Arianddu]

Ok....then if he gave us free will....he gave us free will not to believe in him....and thus getting into 'Heaven' shouldn't be based on believing in him.....And this whole FREE WILL defense by believers is played out....WHY would a supreme being create VERY primitive organisms...then watch from WHEREVER and observe what happens for MILLIONS of years?


I guess its "God's" version of watching flies fuck?

Soap Opera, surely?

[artist4perry]

I guess everyone has their reasons to believe or not to believe. But I find more faith bashing going on more than the other way around.

Funny, I never subscribe to making fun of someone for not believing.

I don't feel the need to excuse myself for what I believe, or to convince you to covert. I don't see why I have to explain it to you so you have to see it. Either you will, or you won't. If you are dead set against it, nothing I would ever say would sway you. Just like politics. People have strong feelings over their ideas.

But to have one say all religion is evil..........sorry I must laugh myself senseless on this. Most devout folks I know are the gentlest kindest folks I know. Yes, yes I know you don't have to be religious to be those things. But being christian does not make you a murdering nut job either.

[YoungJRNY]

Also, does ANYONE.. EVER want to look at the astonishing transition that we see in every day wild-life of evolution? If you really look down deep, the results are miraculous with characteristic's and traits.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/ ... nkey-1.jpg

Just LOOK at that. Look at the features. The dimension of the teeth. The structure of the face. You could literally see the person just beaming inside of this monkey. If you would watch Discovery and look at the way monkeys act upon one another is just a jaw dropping sight to how close they humanly act.



The definition in the hand is the same bone structure as that of a human, as well as the pattern of prints. I just don't see how this could be overlooked by any religious believer that completley turns their nose up at the possibility of evolution.

[Arianddu]

I guess everyone has their reasons to believe or not to believe. But I find more faith bashing going on more than the other way around.

Funny, I never subscribe to making fun of someone for not believing.

I don't feel the need to excuse myself for what I believe, or to convince you to covert. I don't see why I have to explain it to you so you have to see it. Either you will, or you won't. If you are dead set against it, nothing I would ever say would sway you. Just like politics. People have strong feelings over their ideas.

But to have one say all religion is evil..........sorry I must laugh myself senseless on this. Most devout folks I know are the gentlest kindest folks I know. Yes, yes I know you don't have to be religious to be those things. But being christian does not make you a murdering nut job either.

Love ya GingerGirl, and I love your quiet faith, even though I don't share it. Faith is a wonderful, strength-giving thing. I'm not so sure about belief - too many people are convinced that 'I'm right, you're wrong' because their belief is so strong or because they feel they need to convince others that their belief is stronger - and that's on all sides of the religious debte. And religion...well, I guess I think it's theoretically a good idea, but in practice it often gets hijacked by too many people with a burning need to pass judgement and try to exert control on others.

I've had enough of the religious debate over and over again. We've all got out own way of understanding the world and our own ways of struggling through life, trying to find our way. We find our strength in family, friends, and the the things that make us feel good - music, stories, understanding, learning, exploring - and for some, faith is a part of that. My faith is in me and my ability to live a decent life, maybe help a few people on the way, and hopefully die with more people remembering me fondly than with distaste. That's good enough for me.

[artist4perry]

Also, does ANYONE.. EVER want to look at the astonishing transition that we see in every day wild-life of evolution? If you really look down deep, the results are miraculous with characteristic's and traits.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/ ... nkey-1.jpg

Just LOOK at that. Look at the features. The dimension of the teeth. The structure of the face. You could literally see the person just beaming inside of this monkey. If you would watch Discovery and look at the way monkeys act upon one another is just a jaw dropping sight to how close they humanly act.



The definition in the hand is the same bone structure as that of a human, as well as the pattern of prints. I just don't see how this could be overlooked by any religious believer that completley turns their nose up at the possibility of evolution.

Why did monkeys not change?

I look at the world sweetie, and say it is so awesome and so awesomely and intricately made, and works in such a symbiotic way, how could it be all accidental without any purpose, just random accidents? See we all have a way of seeing things. God can make similar creatures can he not? Or is a being that can create the whole universe, unable to create anything the way he wishes to? See just a different way of seeing things. You must understand, I closely observe all things to draw them in detail. I am always amazed, and inspired. You are awesomely made too sugar bear! We just disagree on origins.

[artist4perry]

I guess everyone has their reasons to believe or not to believe. But I find more faith bashing going on more than the other way around.

Funny, I never subscribe to making fun of someone for not believing.

I don't feel the need to excuse myself for what I believe, or to convince you to covert. I don't see why I have to explain it to you so you have to see it. Either you will, or you won't. If you are dead set against it, nothing I would ever say would sway you. Just like politics. People have strong feelings over their ideas.

But to have one say all religion is evil..........sorry I must laugh myself senseless on this. Most devout folks I know are the gentlest kindest folks I know. Yes, yes I know you don't have to be religious to be those things. But being christian does not make you a murdering nut job either.

Love ya GingerGirl, and I love your quiet faith, even though I don't share it. Faith is a wonderful, strength-giving thing. I'm not so sure about belief - too many people are convinced that 'I'm right, you're wrong' because their belief is so strong or because they feel they need to convince others that their belief is stronger - and that's on all sides of the religious debte. And religion...well, I guess I think it's theoretically a good idea, but in practice it often gets hijacked by too many people with a burning need to pass judgement and try to exert control on others.

I've had enough of the religious debate over and over again. We've all got out own way of understanding the world and our own ways of struggling through life, trying to find our way. We find our strength in family, friends, and the the things that make us feel good - music, stories, understanding, learning, exploring - and for some, faith is a part of that. My faith is in me and my ability to live a decent life, maybe help a few people on the way, and hopefully die with more people remembering me fondly than with distaste. That's good enough for me.

See Ari, though we are on different sides of the coin on our thoughts, we can love each other as great friends, and totally respect the other regardless of our differences of thought. That to me is what it is all about. Not forcing, be-littleing, chiding, or mocking. Not necessary. I am fine with you just as you are. And your right, do no harm while you are here. Great plan if you ask me! Hugs girl!

[YoungJRNY]

I look at the world sweetie, and say it is so awesome and so awesomely and intricately made, and works in such a symbiotic way, how could it be all accidental without any purpose, just random accidents.

So you're saying that since we see clouds, trees, rivers, ponds and snow flakes, that is the sole reason behind to why such a God exists?

And why COULDN'T this all just happen by chance? I think that's the problem right there. Since we see what we see, esp in our early ancestry and just couldn't explain things, we turned to a super natural being that would wipe out our curiosity forever. If clouds were made by a wizard, then there is also the possibility that something like the big bang did indeed happen and this all very well did happen by chance. Sorry Gingy, but I just don't buy that clouds verify the existence of God. There is no logic in it. Is the mystery powerful? Is this world so well architecturally put together? Absolutely but the logic and link to God is weak and I'm selling it.

I believe this Earth is made up of MANY chemicals that allows life of many lifeforms, such things that are scientifically studied every day like Nitrogen, oxygen, argon, carbon dioxide, neon, helium, methane, krypton, hydrogen and so on. That is what makes up Earth's atmosphere and there is no reason to NOT believe that such things does in fact have a big part in life on mother Earth.

[Andrew]

No one is taking my advice!

[SteveForever]

A lot of people are going to hell in this forum.

for real....

[Rip Rokken]

I think EVERYONE here need to read this VERY informative site ASAP and repeant against everything they outline in their surmons.

http://www.av1611.org/articles.html#Rock

Dude, here is a funny MR Fest II story for you. When I was driving Tommy Lafferty back to the airport, I told him I wasn't that familiar with their music, and which CD would be the best to start out with. He suggested "Faith", and mentioned a video or something that had been filmed in an old church. Crown of Thorns ->> Faith ->> Church

I asked him if they were a Christian band, and he said, "Ummm... no."

[S2M]

Illogical christian thinking #1: Christians believe that someone, or something created life, and everything has a creator....but when asked who, or whom created the imaginary friend - they answer with, 'Oh, he was always here'...WTF?!

[YoungJRNY]

Illogical christian thinking #1: Christians believe that someone, or something created life, and everything has a creator....but when asked who, or whom created the imaginary friend - they answer with, 'Oh, he was always here'...WTF?!

There is an absolute cause and effect for EVERYTHING. Except for God of course. Shit, it only takes the Bible the first very page to contradict itself, and there are MANY contradictions that come within the Bible. (Shrugs shoulders.)

[LtVanish]

A lot of people are going to hell in this forum.

I meant this statement more as a joke than anything, kind of a tongue in cheek remark on myself. Who am I to judge anyways? Yes I do believe in God and one of the biggest problems I have with religious people is how they are quick to judge. I honestly fully respect everyones beliefs or non beliefs, I am not really the type to persuade anyone to see the light or 'save' someone. I hope there is one thing we all can believe in, is that Evil is real and everywhere and Peace and Love is the answer.

[parfait]

Also, does ANYONE.. EVER want to look at the astonishing transition that we see in every day wild-life of evolution? If you really look down deep, the results are miraculous with characteristic's and traits.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n92/ ... nkey-1.jpg

Just LOOK at that. Look at the features. The dimension of the teeth. The structure of the face. You could literally see the person just beaming inside of this monkey. If you would watch Discovery and look at the way monkeys act upon one another is just a jaw dropping sight to how close they humanly act.



The definition in the hand is the same bone structure as that of a human, as well as the pattern of prints. I just don't see how this could be overlooked by any religious believer that completley turns their nose up at the possibility of evolution.

Why did monkeys not change?

I look at the world sweetie, and say it is so awesome and so awesomely and intricately made, and works in such a symbiotic way, how could it be all accidental without any purpose, just random accidents? See we all have a way of seeing things. God can make similar creatures can he not? Or is a being that can create the whole universe, unable to create anything the way he wishes to? See just a different way of seeing things. You must understand, I closely observe all things to draw them in detail. I am always amazed, and inspired. You are awesomely made too sugar bear! We just disagree on origins.

We did not evolve from the monkeys, but we share a common ancestor. Typical thing to misunderstand.

[Jana]

A lot of people are going to hell in this forum.

I meant this statement more as a joke than anything, kind of a tongue in cheek remark on myself. Who am I to judge anyways? Yes I do believe in God and one of the biggest problems I have with religious people is how they are quick to judge. I honestly fully respect everyones beliefs or non beliefs, I am not really the type to persuade anyone to see the light or 'save' someone. I hope there is one thing we all can believe in, is that Evil is real and everywhere and Peace and Love is the answer.

There will be peace and love in the world before there is peace and love downstairs in the Styx forum.

[LtVanish]

A lot of people are going to hell in this forum.

I meant this statement more as a joke than anything, kind of a tongue in cheek remark on myself. Who am I to judge anyways? Yes I do believe in God and one of the biggest problems I have with religious people is how they are quick to judge. I honestly fully respect everyones beliefs or non beliefs, I am not really the type to persuade anyone to see the light or 'save' someone. I hope there is one thing we all can believe in, is that Evil is real and everywhere and Peace and Love is the answer.

There will be peace and love in the world before there is peace and love downstairs in the Styx forum.

Amen to that! It is Purgatory down there.

[Monker]

Why did monkeys not change?

bear! We just disagree on origins.

We did not evolve from the monkeys, but we share a common ancestor. Typical thing to misunderstand.[/quote]

True...I was going to say the same thing. It used to be accepted that we evolved from monkerys or apes/chimps. But, that view has changed over the years. There is one trait that none of the above share with humans, we walk without using our hands. That trait is not seen in any other existing primate. Therefore, it is now believed that there is a common ancestor that branched off into primates that were able to walk without their hands and those which can't.

Therefore, the belief is NOT that humans are dscended from anything at your local zoo.

[Rip Rokken]

There is an absolute cause and effect for EVERYTHING. Except for God of course. Shit, it only takes the Bible the first very page to contradict itself, and there are MANY contradictions that come within the Bible. (Shrugs shoulders.)

Do you mean like light, "day" and "night" being created on day one, followed by 3 evenings/mornings before he created the sun, moon and stars on the 4th day?

[RedWingFan]

Also, does ANYONE.. EVER want to look at the astonishing transition that we see in every day wild-life of evolution? If you really look down deep, the results are miraculous with characteristic's and traits.
Just LOOK at that. Look at the features. The dimension of the teeth. The structure of the face. You could literally see the person just beaming inside of this monkey. If you would watch Discovery and look at the way monkeys act upon one another is just a jaw dropping sight to how close they humanly act.
The definition in the hand is the same bone structure as that of a human, as well as the pattern of prints. I just don't see how this could be overlooked by any religious believer that completley turns their nose up at the possibility of evolution.

I used to buy that macro-evolution crap when I was a kid. You know that picture of a little monkey growing into a bigger monkey that evolves into cro-magnon that evolves into an upright human.
Only problem is there are ZERO transitional species that link them.
Think about it. If humans evolved from anything the Earth would be littered with all the "unfittest" of Darwin's "survival of the fittest" pap! Same with dinosaurs. Millions of years of T-rex, triceratop...etc... millions of years of T-rex and the rest of the dinosaurs. Staying exactly the same as they were. Not one transitional dinosaur.
Yes our DNA is 98.7% identical to a chimpanzee, on the surface that seems like alot. But you have to put that into context that our DNA is also 35% identical to a daffodil.

Like the old saying goes. "If you don't believe in something, you'll believe in anything!"

Everytime I think of that evolution chart I think of this! Congratulations Travis, "you're the retarded offspring of 5 monkeys having butt-sex with a fish-squirel!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMRpa_W-YSg

[parfait]

Also, does ANYONE.. EVER want to look at the astonishing transition that we see in every day wild-life of evolution? If you really look down deep, the results are miraculous with characteristic's and traits.
Just LOOK at that. Look at the features. The dimension of the teeth. The structure of the face. You could literally see the person just beaming inside of this monkey. If you would watch Discovery and look at the way monkeys act upon one another is just a jaw dropping sight to how close they humanly act.
The definition in the hand is the same bone structure as that of a human, as well as the pattern of prints. I just don't see how this could be overlooked by any religious believer that completley turns their nose up at the possibility of evolution.

I used to buy that macro-evolution crap when I was a kid. You know that picture of a little monkey growing into a bigger monkey that evolves into cro-magnon that evolves into an upright human.
Only problem is there are ZERO transitional species that link them.
Think about it. If humans evolved from anything the Earth would be littered with all the "unfittest" of Darwin's "survival of the fittest" pap! Same with dinosaurs. Millions of years of T-rex, triceratop...etc... millions of years of T-rex and the rest of the dinosaurs. Staying exactly the same as they were. Not one transitional dinosaur.
Yes our DNA is 98.7% identical to a chimpanzee, on the surface that seems like alot. But you have to put that into context that our DNA is also 35% identical to a daffodil.

Like the old saying goes. "If you don't believe in something, you'll believe in anything!"

Everytime I think of that evolution chart I think of this! Congratulations Travis, "you're the retarded offspring of 5 monkeys having butt-sex with a fish-squirel!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMRpa_W-YSg

I knew the usual crap would come of sooner or later. First of all; you obviously don't understand how the evolution theory works. Second: there's a huge number of transitional bones that we know off. Go ask any palaeontologist, and he'll have loads to show you. The world is littered with species that struggle to survive against stronger, more adaptable species. There's only a few species of animals, fish or bird who is known to be "almost perfect" in the evolution sense - several reptile species being one example.

And not to mention genetic science and technology! Dude, there is today no doubt what the consensus is between biologists, palaeontologists and science in general. If you want to deny it; fine. But don't spew out the same bullshit your side (which is almost exclusively poorer educated people and theists) have been doing for decades.

[S2M]

Evolutionists give Creationists plenty of ammo when hoaxes like Piltdown Man, Ida, and Acheoraptor are presented as proof of evolution.....just saying.

[BobbyinTN]

I think everyone is entitled to believe exactly as they wish, but I love how Christians think they are "favored".

If there is a God, he is indefinable and no book ever written will ever give you insight into who or what that God is.

I can't believe people would insult the genius of Hawking and then proclaim the Bible is the perfect word of God. LMAO

All one has got to do is take a look around this scum and filth of a world. Take one step outside of your comfort zone and realize and witness how unsafe and downright scary/nightmarish this world actually is. It really is just a mess. If this is the best God could do, then I am NOT impressed.

God created man and gave us free will.

Bad answer.

[BobbyinTN]

All one has got to do is take a look around this scum and filth of a world. Take one step outside of your comfort zone and realize and witness how unsafe and downright scary/nightmarish this world actually is. It really is just a mess. If this is the best God could do, then I am NOT impressed.

God created man and gave us free will.

I'm not so worried about the state of the world as argument against Christianity, as the Bible predicts things will be as they were in the days of Noah (allegedly wretched) when Christ returns to clean house and set things right. It is a great argument against a perfectly loving and righteous God though.

Free will in the Bible = Love me and put me first above all things, or suffer in eternal fire which burns forever and ever. Choose freely.

Exactly Rip. Accept me or you're fucked. That's a whole lot of free will. LMAO

[BobbyinTN]

I think EVERYONE here need to read this VERY informative site ASAP and repeant against everything they outline in their surmons.

http://www.av1611.org/articles.html#Rock

Interesting site Andrew. It's pretty amazing how stupid some people can be.

[SF-Dano]

All one has got to do is take a look around this scum and filth of a world. Take one step outside of your comfort zone and realize and witness how unsafe and downright scary/nightmarish this world actually is. It really is just a mess. If this is the best God could do, then I am NOT impressed.

God created man and gave us free will.

I'm not so worried about the state of the world as argument against Christianity, as the Bible predicts things will be as they were in the days of Noah (allegedly wretched) when Christ returns to clean house and set things right. It is a great argument against a perfectly loving and righteous God though.

Free will in the Bible = Love me and put me first above all things, or suffer in eternal fire which burns forever and ever. Choose freely.

Exactly Rip. Accept me or you're fucked. That's a whole lot of free will. LMAO

Well at least you can make somewhat of an informed decision.

[BobbyinTN]

Why did monkeys not change?

bear! We just disagree on origins.

We did not evolve from the monkeys, but we share a common ancestor. Typical thing to misunderstand.

True...I was going to say the same thing. It used to be accepted that we evolved from monkerys or apes/chimps. But, that view has changed over the years. There is one trait that none of the above share with humans, we walk without using our hands. That trait is not seen in any other existing primate. Therefore, it is now believed that there is a common ancestor that branched off into primates that were able to walk without their hands and those which can't.

Therefore, the belief is NOT that humans are dscended from anything at your local zoo.[/quote]

Exactly. The common ancestor we and apes evolved from are not the same as the apes of today. I love people who use the argument, if we evolved then why are there still monkeys?

It's like saying if two people create a child they'll suddenly disappear. Or making biscuits means there's no more flour. LOL

[BobbyinTN]

Evolutionists give Creationists plenty of ammo when hoaxes like Piltdown Man, Ida, and Acheoraptor are presented as proof of evolution.....just saying.

Yes, and someone living in a fish or gathering every animal on the planet two by two into a large boat, or parting an ocean is so real and undeniable. LOL

[S2M]

The thing that separates us from other species is CORTICALIZATION of the brain.....which is the wavy, overlapping FOLDS that appear on our brains.