Delete

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

Moderator: Andrew

Delete

Postby G.I.Jim » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:53 am

Hey Rick, just wanted to let you know there's a reason I posted that topic on Facebook. I know 2 women right now who are being seriously abused, and I know the pieces of shit that are doing it to them. I guess it was my way of letting them know I think they're pieces of shit, without me getting involved directly. The 2 women will definitely see what I posted, and I hope they wake the fuck up before it's too late.

One of them is my Sister-In-Law who's house I went to earlier this year. Her husband punched her, choked her, and put a loaded pistol to her head (and then cocked it), and I was there soon after and told her to call the damn poice. He's a piece of SHIT and I hope that fucker dies an agonizing slow death!!! He's family though, and my wife makes me stay out of it and keep my mouth shut. I want to beat the living hell out of this guy for doing this shit. He's also abusive (verbally and mentally) to their children. Makes me SICK!!! :evil:
Last edited by G.I.Jim on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The artist formerly known as Jim. :-)
G.I.Jim
MP3
 
Posts: 10100
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Your Momma's house

Postby pinkfloyd1973 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:16 am

The worst thing you can do is to "stay out of it" :?
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."
User avatar
pinkfloyd1973
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:15 am
Location: Sweet Home Chicago

Re: Rick... Domestic violence...

Postby Rip Rokken » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:17 am

G.I.Jim wrote:Hey Rick, just wanted to let you know there's a reason I posted that topic on Facebook. I know 2 women right now who are being seriously abused, and I know the pieces of shit that are doing it to them. I guess it was my way of letting them know I think they're pieces of shit, without me getting involved directly. The 2 women will definitely see what I posted, and I hope they wake the fuck up before it's too late.

One of them is my Sister-In-Law who's house I went to earlier this year. Her husband punched her, choked her, and put a loaded pistol to her head (and then cocked it), and I was there soon after and told her to call the damn poice. He's a piece of SHIT and I hope that fucker dies an agonizing slow death!!! He's family though, and my wife makes me stay out of it and keep my mouth shut. I want to beat the living hell out of this guy for doing this shit. He's also abusive (verbally and mentally) to their children. Makes me SICK!!! :evil:


Is this your wife's sister? Why does she want to sweep that under the rug? Is it fear that it would make things worse? I hope things go well with your family, Jim.
Image
User avatar
Rip Rokken
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: Vadokken City

Postby Everett » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:23 am

pinkfloyd1973 wrote:The worst thing you can do is to "stay out of it" :?


I agree. Jim fly me and a few buddies of mine out there and we'll take care of it :twisted: :evil:
All in a day's work
Everett
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5791
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:17 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Postby G.I.Jim » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:32 am

pinkfloyd1973 wrote:The worst thing you can do is to "stay out of it" :?


What the hell am I supposed to do about it? I've talked to her several times (as have the other family members), she's called the police, and she even kicked him out for about 3 months. He's back now, and is worse than ever. She wants everyone to think that HE'S the one that pushed the two of them to get back together, but she was the one wearing his phone out, going over, etc... Makes me freaking sick.

She's had ample time and opportunity to leave him, but she's chosen to stay with him. She's an adult, and nobody can think for her.
The artist formerly known as Jim. :-)
G.I.Jim
MP3
 
Posts: 10100
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Your Momma's house

Re: Rick... Domestic violence...

Postby G.I.Jim » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:33 am

Rip Rokken wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Hey Rick, just wanted to let you know there's a reason I posted that topic on Facebook. I know 2 women right now who are being seriously abused, and I know the pieces of shit that are doing it to them. I guess it was my way of letting them know I think they're pieces of shit, without me getting involved directly. The 2 women will definitely see what I posted, and I hope they wake the fuck up before it's too late.

One of them is my Sister-In-Law who's house I went to earlier this year. Her husband punched her, choked her, and put a loaded pistol to her head (and then cocked it), and I was there soon after and told her to call the damn poice. He's a piece of SHIT and I hope that fucker dies an agonizing slow death!!! He's family though, and my wife makes me stay out of it and keep my mouth shut. I want to beat the living hell out of this guy for doing this shit. He's also abusive (verbally and mentally) to their children. Makes me SICK!!! :evil:


Is this your wife's sister? Why does she want to sweep that under the rug? Is it fear that it would make things worse? I hope things go well with your family, Jim.


Thanks Rip. She wants it swept under the rug because she's a dumb-ass. :?
The artist formerly known as Jim. :-)
G.I.Jim
MP3
 
Posts: 10100
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Your Momma's house

Re: Rick... Domestic violence...

Postby StevePerryHair » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:48 am

G.I.Jim wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:Hey Rick, just wanted to let you know there's a reason I posted that topic on Facebook. I know 2 women right now who are being seriously abused, and I know the pieces of shit that are doing it to them. I guess it was my way of letting them know I think they're pieces of shit, without me getting involved directly. The 2 women will definitely see what I posted, and I hope they wake the fuck up before it's too late.

One of them is my Sister-In-Law who's house I went to earlier this year. Her husband punched her, choked her, and put a loaded pistol to her head (and then cocked it), and I was there soon after and told her to call the damn poice. He's a piece of SHIT and I hope that fucker dies an agonizing slow death!!! He's family though, and my wife makes me stay out of it and keep my mouth shut. I want to beat the living hell out of this guy for doing this shit. He's also abusive (verbally and mentally) to their children. Makes me SICK!!! :evil:


Is this your wife's sister? Why does she want to sweep that under the rug? Is it fear that it would make things worse? I hope things go well with your family, Jim.


Thanks Rip. She wants it swept under the rug because she's a dumb-ass. :?


It must be tough Jim. I can't imagine. I have close friends, and his sister is in a situation of verbal abuse and control... and maybe physical abuse, but she probably hides it. They have been married so many years, and our friends spent YEARS trying to help her. Always running to her rescue when she needed them and helping her get a restraining order at one point, just for her to let him back in. There at 2 kids involved, who will be affected for life for sure. They already see signs. She won't leave him. What choice does a family have? They wasted SO much time worrying and feeling sick over it, they finally had to step out of it. For their own well being. And it's TOUGH. Because my friend LOVES his sister and he grew up SO close to her, and he like you wants to beat the S*** out of this guy. And my friend has SUCH a protective personality I don't even know how he restrains himself at all!! Ive met him and seen him in action with her, and he is this little geeky nothing of a guy... I could freaking take him!! :lol: But everyone knows that would just land them in jail. So they sit there and put up with it. Because until she has the power to say no more, and help herself, they can't help. It has been a constant stress on his parents lives as they are getting older. It's really awful. I feel for you, just as I do for them. Until someone has walked in those shoes, of being a family member forced to watch on the sidelines, they really can't judge.
User avatar
StevePerryHair
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 8504
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Mickey's World

Postby Rick » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:01 am

I understand Jim. I'm glad you're there for your sister-in-law, and I know it can be a touchy situation. I told you about my wife, and she's a firm believer of getting the hell out, whatever it takes. If you have to take yourself and your kids to a shelter, that's what you have to do. Staying is never the answer. As you said, they never change.

Thanks for the message.
User avatar
Rick
Super Audio CD
 
Posts: 16726
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:29 am
Location: Texas

Postby Peartree12249 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:04 am

Wow, tough spot you're in Jim! I'm very sorry for your sister-in-law. Try to remember that after many years of living with an abuser, she's not in her right mind anymore. She's an adult and is responsible for making her own choices no matter how bad those choices are. However, if there are children being physically and emotionally abused, you have a duty to report him to the local child protective services. Abusers want to isolate the victim, so if he feels like you are turning her against him he'll just cut you off from seeing her all together. It's better to keep the lines of communication open. Let her know you are there for her and will help her if she wants to leave. Beyond that there really is not much more you can do legally. Good Luck!
Grammar, the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
User avatar
Peartree12249
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Rick... Domestic violence...

Postby Rip Rokken » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:09 am

G.I.Jim wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
G.I.Jim wrote:He's family though, and my wife makes me stay out of it and keep my mouth shut.


Is this your wife's sister? Why does she want to sweep that under the rug? Is it fear that it would make things worse? I hope things go well with your family, Jim.


Thanks Rip. She wants it swept under the rug because she's a dumb-ass. :?


I meant your wife, dude! Why does she ask you to keep your mouth shut?

I misread the post the first time around and thought it was your sister who was getting abused. I doubt either of us would tolerate that. But in this case (and this is contingent on how close you are to your sis-in-law), I think you are right to stay on the sidelines for now. If she's family by marriage, I feel their family should take the lead in handling it if they do at all. But ultimately, when people like your sister-in-law make a conscious choice to stay with abusers like that, even fight to keep a relationship that shows little chance of improving just because they have low self-esteem and think they don't deserve any better, then I lose a lot of empathy. It it's not him, the next one would be similar. There is just no cure for stupid.

I do feel for ya though having to deal with something like that because you probably have to hear about it all the time knowing nobody is interested in solving the problem. I know what that's like, lol.
Image
User avatar
Rip Rokken
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: Vadokken City

Postby pinkfloyd1973 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:36 am

G.I.Jim wrote:
pinkfloyd1973 wrote:The worst thing you can do is to "stay out of it" :?


What the hell am I supposed to do about it? I've talked to her several times (as have the other family members), she's called the police, and she even kicked him out for about 3 months. He's back now, and is worse than ever. She wants everyone to think that HE'S the one that pushed the two of them to get back together, but she was the one wearing his phone out, going over, etc... Makes me freaking sick.

She's had ample time and opportunity to leave him, but she's chosen to stay with him. She's an adult, and nobody can think for her.



It's because she can't break they cycle of abuse and she's dependent on him, women who are in abusive relationships have very little self esteem and think little of themselves. I was in a verbally and emotionally abusive relationship and it took a lot for me to finally leave him (yes we have a child together) and I was lucky to have family there to help me finally leave :?
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."
User avatar
pinkfloyd1973
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:15 am
Location: Sweet Home Chicago

Postby Peartree12249 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:47 am

Domestic violence
Why do women stay? Why don't they leave?
The information below is adapted from the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

It's not uncommon to hear "Why do women stay in abusive relationships?" or "Why don't they leave?" These types of questions, although common, have a tendency—whether unintentional or not—to blame victims and to suggest they enjoy or thrive on being abused. If they didn't enjoy being ill-treated, they would leave, right? Obviously, if they choose to stay, they must have low self-esteem, right?

No. These attitudes are common myths about victims of domestic violence. The fact is that reasons for staying are far more complex than a blanket statement about a victim's character or strength of will.

In some cases, women may seem to "want" to be beaten. For those who come from dysfunctional families—families in which they were routinely beaten and emotionally abused as children—they know no other patterns of behavior and have learned to expect frequent incidents of violence. For such women, the anxiety of waiting for the next outburst of violence is often more stressful and agonizing than the violence itself. They hate not knowing when they will next be hit, kicked, punched, burned, bitten, or stabbed, and they would rather "get it over with" than not know when they will next be abused.

Often, it is dangerous for a woman to leave an abusive relationship. If her abuser is economically abusive (see The Types of Abuse) and withholds all family money from her, leaving can lead to additional hardships. Leaving could mean living in fear of being stalked, fear of losing custody of any minor children (parental abduction is not uncommon), losing financial support, and experiencing harassment at work.

Do not underestimate the effects of domestic violence on its victims. Abused women experience isolation, shame, embarrassment, and humiliation. Women may not immediately leave an abusive relationship because:

They fear their abusers will become more violent—perhaps fatal—stalking them if they leave.
Friends and family may not support their decision to leave.
They fear being a single parent with little money.
There are periods of calm, nurturing and love between incidents of violence (see The Cycle of Abuse).
They may be unaware of sources of advocacy and support.
They may be unaware of shelters and other resources that offer safety and support.
The reasons women stay in abusive relationships typically fall into three categories.

Lack of resources
Most abused women have at least one minor child.
Many abused women are not employed outside the home.
Many abused women don't have property that is solely theirs.
In many cases, abusers have cut off access to cash or bank accounts.
Most abused women fear losing joint assets and custody of their children.
Abused women fear a lower standard of living for themselves and their children.
Responses by services and authorities
(See How Professionals Can Respond)
Often, clergy and social workers are trained to "save the family" rather than to stop violence.
Police often treat incidents of domestic violence as mere "disputes" rather than as serious crimes in which one person is physically assaulting another.
Police may try to discourage women from pressing criminal charges.
Attorneys are often reluctant to prosecute cases. Justices rarely assign the maximum sentence or fine possible.
Restraining orders and peace bonds (see Stalking) do little to prevent abusers from repeating their violent patterns of behavior. Sadly, there are too few shelters to keep women safe.
Traditional thinking
Many women don't view divorce as a viable alternative.
Many abused women don't accept the notion of single parenting. They believe a bad father (or in the case of a lesbian relationship, a bad partner) is better than none at all.
Many women are conditioned to believe they are responsible for making their marriage or relationship work; that if the relationship fails, they have failed as women. Society has often taught these women that their worth is measured by their ability to get and keep a man.
Many abused women feel isolated from their families and from society. Isolation is either the result of the abuser's possessiveness or jealousy, or it may be an attempt on the part of the victim to hide signs of abuse from the outside world. Either way, such isolation leads many victims to feel they have nowhere to turn.
Many victims externalize or rationalize the reasons for their abuser's behavior, casting blame of circumstances such as stress, financial hardship, job stress, chemical dependency, etc.
Between violent episodes, there are periods of calm during which the abuser is charming, nurturing, and caring. Those traits which initially attracted him/her to his/her victim resurface and the victim sees her abuser as a loving person, thereby reinforcing her decision to stay. (See The Cycle of Abuse.)
Grammar, the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
User avatar
Peartree12249
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:47 pm

Postby Rip Rokken » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:19 am

Peartree12249 wrote:
It's not uncommon to hear "Why do women stay in abusive relationships?" or "Why don't they leave?" These types of questions, although common, have a tendency—whether unintentional or not—to blame victims and to suggest they enjoy or thrive on being abused. If they didn't enjoy being ill-treated, they would leave, right? Obviously, if they choose to stay, they must have low self-esteem, right?

No. These attitudes are common myths about victims of domestic violence. The fact is that reasons for staying are far more complex than a blanket statement about a victim's character or strength of will.


It may not be the rule, but it's far from a myth. There are plenty of women out there who think they don't deserve better, and are doing anything but trying to get out of the relationship. We used to have a friend who was very smart and attractive, looked like a normal girl, but she was co-dependent as hell and stayed in an abusive relationship for years. We listened to her crap since they were first dating, and she'd come crying a few times a week about the guy. Wouldn't listen to any advice though, and married the guy, bought a house with him, had a kid with him, and was trying to have another -- she was just addicted to being a victim was all I could make of it, and crying to us was her "therapy". Luckily the guy ended up OD'ing on drugs a few years later (dead at 35), but she didn't learn any lessons. She's been thru a string of guys since then, and they were all pretty much louses. Low self-esteem is definitely a factor in many of these cases.

I have all the sympathy in the world for abused women who are in a very hard spot and don't know how to leave, if they truly want to get out, but I don't have much when it's obvious they are equally at fault for perpetuating an endless cycle and wasting their friend's time.
Image
User avatar
Rip Rokken
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: Vadokken City

Postby Peartree12249 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:40 am

I can certainly understand how you would feel that way Rip. It's easy for us to look in from the outside and judge these people but truly if I was married to a violent abusive husband who beat me, had a gun to my head or knife to my throat and told me that he would kill me, or my children, or my family, I'd be terrified to leave. It happens all the time. And if she leaves, what protection does she have? A restraining order? What a joke!!! Women leave and they are stalked and murdered by the abuser every day in this country. The guy may abduct or even kill his own children to punish the victim. You hear stories of a woman who leaves and is staying with family only to have the abuser show up and kill everyone. We don't know what goes on in people's homes or minds. I don't think judging or blaming the victim serves any useful purpose other than to cause more guilt, shame and isolation. To us leaving sounds like a no brainer, but to an abuse victim it's not that simple.
Grammar, the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
User avatar
Peartree12249
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:47 pm

Postby Rip Rokken » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:04 pm

Peartree12249 wrote:I can certainly understand how you would feel that way Rip. It's easy for us to look in from the outside and judge these people but truly if I was married to a violent abusive husband who beat me, had a gun to my head or knife to my throat and told me that he would kill me, or my children, or my family, I'd be terrified to leave. It happens all the time. And if she leaves, what protection does she have? A restraining order? What a joke!!! Women leave and they are stalked and murdered by the abuser every day in this country. The guy may abduct or even kill his own children to punish the victim. You hear stories of a woman who leaves and is staying with family only to have the abuser show up and kill everyone. We don't know what goes on in people's homes or minds. I don't think judging or blaming the victim serves any useful purpose other than to cause more guilt, shame and isolation. To us leaving sounds like a no brainer, but to an abuse victim it's not that simple.


Like I said though, I'm not judging those types of situations -- just the boneheads who have no real desire to escape or better their situations. but don't mind keeping their friends and family dragged down in the mudpit of their drama. We have battered women's shelters here that are safe places for abused women to go.

I know it sounds harsh, but I agree with Saint John's belief in the educational effectiveness of a good ol' fashion ass-kicking in some cases to get a point across. Some people (and I'm talking about abusers) have no clear sense of conscience or reasoning ability, and they operate on a mental level only slightly above dumb animals. They respond better to fear and pain (the basic instinct toward self-preservation that we all share) than anything that requires a more advanced though process. A surprise blanket party-style intervention might do the trick.
Image
User avatar
Rip Rokken
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: Vadokken City

Postby G.I.Jim » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:14 pm

Rip Rokken wrote:
Peartree12249 wrote:I can certainly understand how you would feel that way Rip. It's easy for us to look in from the outside and judge these people but truly if I was married to a violent abusive husband who beat me, had a gun to my head or knife to my throat and told me that he would kill me, or my children, or my family, I'd be terrified to leave. It happens all the time. And if she leaves, what protection does she have? A restraining order? What a joke!!! Women leave and they are stalked and murdered by the abuser every day in this country. The guy may abduct or even kill his own children to punish the victim. You hear stories of a woman who leaves and is staying with family only to have the abuser show up and kill everyone. We don't know what goes on in people's homes or minds. I don't think judging or blaming the victim serves any useful purpose other than to cause more guilt, shame and isolation. To us leaving sounds like a no brainer, but to an abuse victim it's not that simple.


Like I said though, I'm not judging those types of situations -- just the boneheads who have no real desire to escape or better their situations. but don't mind keeping their friends and family dragged down in the mudpit of their drama. We have battered women's shelters here that are safe places for abused women to go.

I know it sounds harsh, but I agree with Saint John's belief in the educational effectiveness of a good ol' fashion ass-kicking in some cases to get a point across. Some people (and I'm talking about abusers) have no clear sense of conscience or reasoning ability, and they operate on a mental level only slightly above dumb animals. They respond better to fear and pain (the basic instinct toward self-preservation that we all share) than anything that requires a more advanced though process. A surprise blanket party-style intervention might do the trick.


I don't think a blanket party would help Rip. He'd do nothing but turn his anger towards her. As I said... SHE pursues HIM when they break up. I've been with him, and she calls him constantly! She'll tell us how much she hates him and how glad she was after he left, yet she would ask him to come over, etc...

They had started separation paperwork, and had visitation set up with the kids. She didn't need his money, and had been paying her bills. She just had to get him back, and it drives me fucking crazy!!! They were apart for months. :roll:
The artist formerly known as Jim. :-)
G.I.Jim
MP3
 
Posts: 10100
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Your Momma's house

Postby Rip Rokken » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:56 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
Peartree12249 wrote:I can certainly understand how you would feel that way Rip. It's easy for us to look in from the outside and judge these people but truly if I was married to a violent abusive husband who beat me, had a gun to my head or knife to my throat and told me that he would kill me, or my children, or my family, I'd be terrified to leave. It happens all the time. And if she leaves, what protection does she have? A restraining order? What a joke!!! Women leave and they are stalked and murdered by the abuser every day in this country. The guy may abduct or even kill his own children to punish the victim. You hear stories of a woman who leaves and is staying with family only to have the abuser show up and kill everyone. We don't know what goes on in people's homes or minds. I don't think judging or blaming the victim serves any useful purpose other than to cause more guilt, shame and isolation. To us leaving sounds like a no brainer, but to an abuse victim it's not that simple.


Like I said though, I'm not judging those types of situations -- just the boneheads who have no real desire to escape or better their situations. but don't mind keeping their friends and family dragged down in the mudpit of their drama. We have battered women's shelters here that are safe places for abused women to go.

I know it sounds harsh, but I agree with Saint John's belief in the educational effectiveness of a good ol' fashion ass-kicking in some cases to get a point across. Some people (and I'm talking about abusers) have no clear sense of conscience or reasoning ability, and they operate on a mental level only slightly above dumb animals. They respond better to fear and pain (the basic instinct toward self-preservation that we all share) than anything that requires a more advanced though process. A surprise blanket party-style intervention might do the trick.


I don't think a blanket party would help Rip. He'd do nothing but turn his anger towards her. As I said... SHE pursues HIM when they break up. I've been with him, and she calls him constantly! She'll tell us how much she hates him and how glad she was after he left, yet she would ask him to come over, etc...

They had started separation paperwork, and had visitation set up with the kids. She didn't need his money, and had been paying her bills. She just had to get him back, and it drives me fucking crazy!!! They were apart for months. :roll:


No, can't help those types. I only think blanket parties might help to keep someone away once a victim broke loose. If it were someone in my direct family (like my sister) and an intervention might help, I'd start with a very calm but clear talk with the abuser. Taking at least one more person might help show consensus. Anyway, this is all just general to the topic. I think you're doing the right thing in your sister-in-law's case.
Image
User avatar
Rip Rokken
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9203
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:43 pm
Location: Vadokken City

Postby Peartree12249 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:49 pm

G.I.Jim wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
Peartree12249 wrote:I can certainly understand how you would feel that way Rip. It's easy for us to look in from the outside and judge these people but truly if I was married to a violent abusive husband who beat me, had a gun to my head or knife to my throat and told me that he would kill me, or my children, or my family, I'd be terrified to leave. It happens all the time. And if she leaves, what protection does she have? A restraining order? What a joke!!! Women leave and they are stalked and murdered by the abuser every day in this country. The guy may abduct or even kill his own children to punish the victim. You hear stories of a woman who leaves and is staying with family only to have the abuser show up and kill everyone. We don't know what goes on in people's homes or minds. I don't think judging or blaming the victim serves any useful purpose other than to cause more guilt, shame and isolation. To us leaving sounds like a no brainer, but to an abuse victim it's not that simple.


Like I said though, I'm not judging those types of situations -- just the boneheads who have no real desire to escape or better their situations. but don't mind keeping their friends and family dragged down in the mudpit of their drama. We have battered women's shelters here that are safe places for abused women to go.

I know it sounds harsh, but I agree with Saint John's belief in the educational effectiveness of a good ol' fashion ass-kicking in some cases to get a point across. Some people (and I'm talking about abusers) have no clear sense of conscience or reasoning ability, and they operate on a mental level only slightly above dumb animals. They respond better to fear and pain (the basic instinct toward self-preservation that we all share) than anything that requires a more advanced though process. A surprise blanket party-style intervention might do the trick.


I don't think a blanket party would help Rip. He'd do nothing but turn his anger towards her. As I said... SHE pursues HIM when they break up. I've been with him, and she calls him constantly! She'll tell us how much she hates him and how glad she was after he left, yet she would ask him to come over, etc...

They had started separation paperwork, and had visitation set up with the kids. She didn't need his money, and had been paying her bills. She just had to get him back, and it drives me fucking crazy!!! They were apart for months. :roll:


How frustrating that must be for her family. She sounds like a very sick person. It's bad enough when you see a loved one ruining their own life, but when children are involved it's even worse. So often the pattern of abuse repeats itself in the next generation. What growing up in this type of environment does to children is just shameful.
Grammar, the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
User avatar
Peartree12249
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:47 pm

Postby S2M » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:04 pm

Nobody deserves to be abused....but I'm SO sick and tired of hearing that a person is stuck in the situation. There are shelters, and there is help. Fuck love, fuck time put in, fuck the excuse about kids....I have limited respect for women who stay in abusive relationships....
Tom Brady IS the G.O.A.T.
User avatar
S2M
MP3
 
Posts: 11981
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:43 am
Location: In a bevy of whimsy

Postby Peartree12249 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:37 pm

S2M wrote:Nobody deserves to be abused....but I'm SO sick and tired of hearing that a person is stuck in the situation. There are shelters, and there is help. Fuck love, fuck time put in, fuck the excuse about kids....I have limited respect for women who stay in abusive relationships....


I think this article provides some good insights as to why battered women don't leave their abuser or wait so long until they do. While this may not apply to Jim's sister-in-law there are lots of women this does apply to. You may not agree with everything the writer says, but I do think she makes some excellent points.


"Why Don't Battered Women Just Leave?"
by Christy Koch

The scene is a familiar one. I'm at a party making small talk, and it comes up in conversation that I've done work with battered women. Then, slowly, the "what-exactly-do-you-do's" and "that's- great's" shift to the question, the one people ask once they get up the nerve: "Why don't they just leave?"

For two years, I've worked as a volunteer crisis line counselor for the Orange/Durham Battered Women's Coalition. In that time, I've talked to a lot of women in abusive relationships. Many of these women were ready to leave and did so, others wanted to leave and did not, and still others did not yet feel ready to go. Some left and then went back. The reasons for these diverse actions were numerous and ultimately individual. Thus, I'll make no attempt here to provide anything approaching definitive insights on what causes a battered woman to stay, go, or go back. I'd just like to explore this one question a bit.

"Why don't they just leave?" I think that particular question represents a very prevalent social attitude regarding battered women. Namely that they are masochists who stay with their abusers purely out of emotional need. This assumption is troubling. Firstly, it simplifies and distorts our view of domestic violence, its victims, and its perpetrators. Secondly, it tends to put the cause and solution of the problem back in the victim's lap. The logic at the core of this perspective is that the true responsibility for ending domestic violence rests with the women who suffer it. In other words, if they would just do what they should and break these sick emotional ties, there would be no problem.

So, I want to suggest a few of the myriad of reasons why women don't "just leave" and hopefully show, if only superficially, why the issue is not quite so easy as it may initially appear.

Reason #1: She has nowhere to go. I mean this literally. In Orange and Durham Counties there is currently one battered women's shelter with a capacity for 16 women and children. It is usually full. Hence, women from these two counties calling the crisis line in search of shelter often must be referred to shelters in neighboring counties which may or may not have any space. The best bet for finding women shelter is sending them to a rural county where the shelters more often (though not always) have more room. One problem is that a woman must have her own car to be able to function in these shelters. Though we can get them there, the shelters themselves do not have the staff or resources to provide the women with transportation when they need it and public transportation is non-existent. Not all women have cars or the money to buy and maintain them.

Another problem with re-locating out of county is that many women have children who would have to be taken out of their current school and enrolled in one near the shelter- only to do it all over again in a month or two as the shelter is only a temporary measure. Mothers do not like to disrupt their kids education, particularly when their home life is going to be in flux at the same time. Many women also have jobs, family and/or friends who they are unwilling or unable to leave in order to go into hiding out of town. Unfortunately, because of very limited space, the decision to seek shelter frequently requires battered women to leave a good deal more than their batterer.

Yet, at the same time, for many women shelter is the only viable option. Batterers tend to isolate their partners from other people because this gives them more control and security (and the women less, of course.) Hence, these men often make having friends difficult or impossible for a woman. If she happens to have family in the area, batterers will commonly discourage or prohibit her having contact with them. Furthermore, women in abusive relationships frequently become estranged from family members and friends who are frustrated that she has not left her abuser. They too, wonder why she doesn't "just leave."

However, even if a woman does have family or friends willing to put her up, it is highly possible that she is putting both herself and them in grave danger by staying there. A batterer often looks for a woman when she leaves. If her mother, brother, or best friend live in the area, you can bet he's going to go there first. These men are violent individuals. They are dangerous. Some of them are complete and utter psychopaths-I am not exaggerating. In addition, statistics show that a woman is mostly likely to be killed by her batterer once she does leave (yet another serious barrier to leaving.) Shelter locations are kept confidential for exactly these reasons and so, are often the only safe place for women to run to.

There is the problem of a long term housing solution as well. If a woman is lucky, she has a good job and can rent a new apartment on her own. However, if a woman needs affordable or subsidized housing for herself and/or her children, the situation is difficult. Orange County has a waiting list years long for public housing and reasonable rent is not easy to come by. Durham also has a long list. However, battered women are given priority and standardly can obtain housing in two to three months. That's still a long wait-particulary when the question as to where you stay in the interim looms large. To compound the problem, much of Durham's public housing suffers from serious crime. Naturally, this worries many women, especially those with kids. They are trying to escape a violent living situation and understandably are not eager to go through the upheaval only to continue feeling unsafe.

Reason #2: She can't afford to leave. Some women have the economic means to leave, but many do not. Domestic violence transcends class boundaries, but obviously the less money one has, the more limited one's options are. The situation with housing that I describe above is one way in which money acts as a severe impediment to many women leaving abusive partners. Several studies have suggested that a majority of homeless women and children are actually fleeing domestic violence. Unfortunately, this may be the only way out for some.

The average American household requires two incomes to stay afloat finantially. Many women cannot support themselves or their children on their income alone. Particularly as women, in general, still earn less than men. Some women may also be at home or working part-time in order to care for their children. This exacerbates their financial difficulties should they decide to go. Furthermore, federal cuts in welfare and food stamps have made leaving even more problematic for many women as government help to aid them in their period of transition is more limited than ever. Undoubtedly, some women will go back to their abusers as their benefits run out and they are still unable to make ends meet on their own.

Finally: Batterers tend to be very controlling individuals. Just as they often restrict their partner's social contacts, they also frequently give her limited or no access to money. It is not uncommon that she receives an allowance or has to request money from him. In this way, he keeps tabs on her and makes her more dependent on him. Thus, even women who do live middle or upper class lives might still have great economic impediments to leaving.

There are many other reasons why women don't leave as well as why they go back. I've discussed a few. I don't want to deny that there are often serious emotional and self-esteem issues involved in women remaining with abusive partners. Nor do I wish to suggest that these reasons are any less valid than those I've touched upon. I would simply like to present some answers to the question of why women don't leave which may prompt other, perhaps more productive questions about the problem of domestic violence in public discourse.

For example, why is every county in North Carolina required by law to have an animal shelter but not a battered women's shelter (and many counties in the state do not)? Why aren't battered women's shelters and coalitions funded publically or federally (most are in constant search of private donations and grants to keep their doors open and their overworked staffs underpaid)? Why is "Assault on a Female" (as domestic violence incidents are legally called) a misdemeanor in our state? Why is domestic violence the leading cause of injury for women in our society (yes, it outstrips car accidents)? And perhaps most importantly, Why is the "solution" for domestic violence so often seen solely as rooted in the victim's emotional and psychological problems? Why isn't it seen more as a social issue which must be addressed by social and political institutions?

Nobody would suggest that the solution to the education crisis is that students just need to study more and that the public need take no part. But, in the case of domestic violence, society in many cases has taken just such a ludicrous view of the situation. Women in abusive relationships do play a key role in improving their own situations. No one else can leave for them. However, neither can they do that alone. They need support and resources; support and resources which are still grossly inadequate in most places. Given the situation, I think a more valid question would be-How do women manage to leave their abusers in the face of so many obstacles?
Grammar, the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.
User avatar
Peartree12249
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 2946
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:47 pm


Return to Snowmobiles For The Sahara

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests