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[fredinator]

I didn't miss shit. You sound like you either forgot or didn't know what happened to Pat Tillman. Go tell his family your feelings and then go to hell again.

Listen you dumb bitch, you DID miss the fucking point. Plus, you wrote a half assed post, explained absolutely nothing, and you don't capitalize Hell.

You go to Hell.

Damn, you're still dumb aren't you? Lol. Big fucking deal re hell in a discussion about the needless death of Pat Tillman.

[Rockindeano]

I didn't miss shit. You sound like you either forgot or didn't know what happened to Pat Tillman. Go tell his family your feelings and then go to hell again.

Listen you dumb bitch, you DID miss the fucking point. Plus, you wrote a half assed post, explained absolutely nothing, and you don't capitalize Hell.

You go to Hell.

Damn, you're still dumb aren't you? Lol. Big fucking deal re hell in a discussion about the needless death of Pat Tillman.

I was trying to lighten up the situation with a meaningless jab against you. Apparently, it flew right over your empty dome.

[Jeremey]

Ferdinator, you want some?

Fuck no. Not from you anyway. Go back to fighting with SM2. What do you know about the military anyway?

Well, I come from an Irish Catholic family of about 85 cousins, about 25% of which have served in the military. On top of that, my wife's family is from rural NC, and most of her family has served in the military. And on top of that, I perform in front of hundreds of people every week, including tomorrow, that are from military backgrounds, or have family in the military, and I talk with them and understand the sacrifices so many of them make on a weekly basis. I'm away from my family 4-5 days at a time. These people leave their wives, their babies, their husbands, and families for months and years at a time, and every time I talk to them, it makes my fuckin' eyes wet. So yeah, I have a little bit of empathy for people in the military. And if your son served two tours in Afghanistan, he sure as FUCK knows what he's getting into, and don't make it seem like some rich white guy plucked him out of high school and sent him there. We all struggle. We all look for jobs. Fuck there's more foreclosures in the classifieds than there are jobs. But if you enlist in this day and age, it's out of a certain amount of patriotism and pride, and fuck those who don't respect that. I know you must, if your son is enlisted. So don't sympathize with some message board pedant who wants to spout some controversial venom because he has nothing better to do on a Wednesday night. Buck the fuck up, and stand behind your family's choices.

[fredinator]

I have to admit it went right over my empty dome since I am still angry over the previous insults. Thanks for letting me know you were lightening things up a little.

[fredinator]

Ferdinator, you want some?

Fuck no. Not from you anyway. Go back to fighting with SM2. What do you know about the military anyway?

Well, I come from an Irish Catholic family of about 85 cousins, about 25% of which have served in the military. On top of that, my wife's family is from rural NC, and most of her family has served in the military. And on top of that, I perform in front of hundreds of people every week, including tomorrow, that are from military backgrounds, or have family in the military, and I talk with them and understand the sacrifices so many of them make on a weekly basis. I'm away from my family 4-5 days at a time. These people leave their wives, their babies, their husbands, and families for months and years at a time, and every time I talk to them, it makes my fuckin' eyes wet. So yeah, I have a little bit of empathy for people in the military. And if your son served two tours in Afghanistan, he sure as FUCK knows what he's getting into, and don't make it seem like some rich white guy plucked him out of high school and sent him there. We all struggle. We all look for jobs. Fuck there's more foreclosures in the classifieds than there are jobs. But if you enlist in this day and age, it's out of a certain amount of patriotism and pride, and fuck those who don't respect that. I know you must, if your son is enlisted. So don't sympathize with some message board pedant who wants to spout some controversial venom because he has nothing better to do on a Wednesday night. Buck the fuck up, and stand behind your family's choices.

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

[Jeremey]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

[Jeremey]

Right.

[fredinator]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

I don't have to prove anything to you nor do I care if you believe he served or not. There's no point in arguing with a drunk guy so adios.

[Jeremey]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

I don't have to prove anything to you nor do I care if you believe he served or not. There's no point in arguing with a drunk guy so adios.

Oh yeah, I'm so drunk I can't even spell out a cohesive sentence! Whatever, ferdinator. If your boy served, then don't fuckin apologize for it. End of discussion.

[fredinator]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

I don't have to prove anything to you nor do I care if you believe he served or not. There's no point in arguing with a drunk guy so adios.

Oh yeah, I'm so drunk I can't even spell out a cohesive sentence! Whatever, ferdinator. If your boy served, then don't fuckin apologize for it. End of discussion.

Not quite. I'm not fuckin apologizing for anything except for asking a question which was none of my business. I'm not saying another word about anyone in my family (my IMMEDIATE family) who served from now on. End of discussion.

[Jeremey]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

I don't have to prove anything to you nor do I care if you believe he served or not. There's no point in arguing with a drunk guy so adios.

Oh yeah, I'm so drunk I can't even spell out a cohesive sentence! Whatever, ferdinator. If your boy served, then don't fuckin apologize for it. End of discussion.

Not quite. I'm not fuckin apologizing for anything except for asking a question which was none of my business. I'm not saying another word about anyone in my family (my IMMEDIATE family) who served from now on. End of discussion.

Good answer! Don't want to apologize for calling into question your son's TWO TOURS of duty?? Way to stand behind your family, douchebag. Oh...Maybe it's just that this is a private family matter that you don't want to bring into discussion on the internet. Oh wait....But you did say, quite vehemently, that your son served two tours of duty in Afghanistan, and that it was a rich man's war, right....

Oh fuck, what was I saying....I muts be durnk.....

[fredinator]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

I don't have to prove anything to you nor do I care if you believe he served or not. There's no point in arguing with a drunk guy so adios.

Oh yeah, I'm so drunk I can't even spell out a cohesive sentence! Whatever, ferdinator. If your boy served, then don't fuckin apologize for it. End of discussion.

Not quite. I'm not fuckin apologizing for anything except for asking a question which was none of my business. I'm not saying another word about anyone in my family (my IMMEDIATE family) who served from now on. End of discussion.

Good answer! Don't want to apologize for calling into question your son's TWO TOURS of duty?? Way to stand behind your family, douchebag. Oh...Maybe it's just that this is a private family matter that you don't want to bring into discussion on the internet. Oh wait....But you did say, quite vehemently, that your son served two tours of duty in Afghanistan, and that it was a rich man's war, right....

Oh fuck, what was I saying....I muts be durnk.....

What an ego. Anyone with a fucking brain would question the war in Iraq and even Afghanistan. So once again go to hell.

[fredinator]

Yaddy, yaddy, 85 cousins, yaddy, yaddy, struggle, patriotism, stand behind yaddy, yaddy. BS. Also, I don't know a darn thing about S2M and his status on this forum.

Excellent comeback. I stand corrected, sir.

Oh, and based on your response, if you actually have a son who served two tours in Afghanistan, I'll buy you a fuckin' 8 ball.

I don't have to prove anything to you nor do I care if you believe he served or not. There's no point in arguing with a drunk guy so adios.

Oh yeah, I'm so drunk I can't even spell out a cohesive sentence! Whatever, ferdinator. If your boy served, then don't fuckin apologize for it. End of discussion.

Not quite. I'm not fuckin apologizing for anything except for asking a question which was none of my business. I'm not saying another word about anyone in my family (my IMMEDIATE family) who served from now on. End of discussion.

Good answer! Don't want to apologize for calling into question your son's TWO TOURS of duty?? Way to stand behind your family, douchebag. Oh...Maybe it's just that this is a private family matter that you don't want to bring into discussion on the internet. Oh wait....But you did say, quite vehemently, that your son served two tours of duty in Afghanistan, and that it was a rich man's war, right....

Oh fuck, what was I saying....I muts be durnk.....

Fool.

[Jeremey]

What an ego. Anyone with a fucking brain would question the war in Iraq and even Afghanistan. So once again go to hell.

You dumbass.

This has nothing to do with the "political" war in Iraq (which was a clusterfuck) or Afghanistan. It has to do with the lives of the men and women who served our country, knowing that they were going into harm's way, however misguided they were, and sacrificing their lives. So some dumbass on the internet could chew on his cud and say "hey, they ain't died for me, hiccup."

Get a fuckin clue. You nor your immediate family served in the military, so give it up.

[fredinator]

Here's a part of what Kevin Tillman wrote about his brother's death:

"Even after the fratricide became public, it took years for the family to root out the truth about what happened. During those days I spoke several times for publication with Tillman's mother, Mary. And like every other writer with an interest in the story, I tried to reach Kevin. But he maintained the posture that he and Pat took from the start: silence.

It wasn't until October 2006 that the public "heard" from Kevin. He wrote an essay for the Web site truthdig.com that read in part, "Somehow lying is tolerated. Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. . . . Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is."

Kevin, like Pat, is a student of history, philosophy and current events. But he's also a pragmatist, recognizing that people today are disinclined to read lengthy tomes on any of those subjects.

That seems to be the motivation for his 21-page, illustrated book called The Transparent Pillage, now available on Amazon.com for $12.99. It looks like a children's book but reads like a follow-up to Tillman's truthdig essay. Through text and illustrations, Kevin argues that we should hold legally accountable those responsible for "a war based on lies." The idea being, perhaps, that a change in administrations is not the same thing as justice."

He doesn't disparage his, his brother's nor anyone else's reasons for joining the military and neither do I. Were they gullible? Maybe.

[Jeremey]

Oh really? Did Pat feel that way when the fucking towers collapsed? When the Pentagon was in flames? Whatever happened after the fact is polemic, the truth is that the dude wanted to fight for his country's freedoms, just like many of the people named in the original post of this thread. Have a great fuckin' day.

[portland]

I'm kinda sorry I poked my nose into this thread but I want to say something to your statement: You're right there is no draft and people do join mostly with the best of intentions, however, a lot of young people join for financial reasons. I'm not pawning off anything--a lot of American wars were planned and carried out by old, white, rich men. That's the truth. One of them was horribly ridden by guilt for VietNam--Robert McNamara.

This is way too depressing--ta ta.

Hey bro....They joined for financial reasons? In the midst of the nation's declared war on terror? And they thought they could just get by servicing jet engines or making coffee? Go meet a few people on the inside and then come away with a little more knowledge.

You are an idiot, too, plus you're drunk by your own account. Go to hell.

Making friends again I see.

[Saint John]

I see Siobhan Tobin has made her (and that's plural ) triumphant return.

[parfait]

I'm kinda sorry I poked my nose into this thread but I want to say something to your statement: You're right there is no draft and people do join mostly with the best of intentions, however, a lot of young people join for financial reasons. I'm not pawning off anything--a lot of American wars were planned and carried out by old, white, rich men. That's the truth. One of them was horribly ridden by guilt for VietNam--Robert McNamara.

This is way too depressing--ta ta.

Hey bro....They joined for financial reasons? In the midst of the nation's declared war on terror? And they thought they could just get by servicing jet engines or making coffee? Go meet a few people on the inside and then come away with a little more knowledge.

You are an idiot, too, plus you're drunk by your own account. Go to hell.

Making friends again I see.

She's allowed to voice her opinion like everyone else who completely got their panties in a twist. I think the soldiers should be commended for the fact that they fight for something they believe in. It's important to have a purpose. But the fact is that war, however necessary you people thought, or still think it is, resolves nothing. The war in Afganhistan is a total clusterfuck; Taliban is stronger and more popular now than ever. Let's not forget that to this day thousands of kids are born in Vietnam with horrible, life crushing physical deformations and mental retardations caused by the dioxine in Agent Orange. War always affects the innocents the most and it's nowhere as noble as you people make it out to be.

But that's more of a argument against your government, than your army. The soldiers should be shown respect for doing what they think is right for their country.

[portland]

I see Siobhan Tobin has made her (and that's plural ) triumphant return.

Now there is something we can agree on, Good morning Dan.

[Melissa]

S, after having met you, it's sad to see you voice an opinion like this that despite having the right to have, you should keep to yourself. Some opinions are best kept silent. I don't agree with you at all, but I'm also not going to berate you and call you names that some in their ivory towers seem to get such a kick out of.

[bluejeangirl76]

This has nothing to do with the "political" war in Iraq (which was a clusterfuck) or Afghanistan. It has to do with the lives of the men and women who served our country, knowing that they were going into harm's way, however misguided they were, and sacrificing their lives. So some dumbass on the internet could chew on his cud and say "hey, they ain't died for me, hiccup."

Exactly. As you said previously, Jeremey, the comment that pissed everyone off here had nothing to to with whether the war is right or wrong or the politics behind it, and the intent was "pay attention to me, I'm a big dog and I can stir up a big dust cloud!" Well fuck that. I mean really? If you die serving your country and it doesn't happen on US soil (the pearl harbor comment), it doesn't count as serving as dying FOR your country or its people?

The point that Jeremey has made several times and keeps being brushed off is that today's military personnel CHOOSE to serve, no one is "sending" children to fight or die. The US is sending its troops, yes, but they are troops of people who are there by choice.

And the fact that they do choose that path should be damn well respected. And if they lose their lives doing it, THAT should damn well be respected too. Think about the millions of men who did not have a choice. My dad didn't. And he was one of the lucky ones to come back, and for the rest of his life he was one of the proudest Vets you'd ever want to meet. he rarely if ever talked about his time in the war, he didn't need people kissing his ass over it, he just did what he did and was proud of that.

And no he didn't fight on US soil or under direct US threat, and yes it means JUST as much that he served and fought, period.

I have a question: If a policeperson or fireperson dies in the line of duty, but he or she doesn't die protecting MY city or MY neighborhood, is it ok to put down the fact that they gave up their lives protecting people? Um. No.

[Melissa]

I have a question: If a policeperson or fireperson dies in the line of duty, but he or she doesn't die protecting MY city or MY neighborhood, is it ok to put down the fact that they gave up their lives protecting people? Um. No.

Thing is cops and firefighters are not held in high regard for what they do every day. Maybe right after 9/11, but other than that, not really. Every time a cop is in the news, it's either for dying in the line of duty, or something controversial, never for all the things they do to protect people. I've been with a cop for 17 years, and it's the most thankless job. I've kept my mouth shut when people here, including in this thread, have talked out of their asses about cops.

[bluejeangirl76]

I have a question: If a policeperson or fireperson dies in the line of duty, but he or she doesn't die protecting MY city or MY neighborhood, is it ok to put down the fact that they gave up their lives protecting people? Um. No.

Thing is cops and firefighters are not held in high regard for what they do every day. Maybe right after 9/11, but other than that, not really. Every time a cop is in the news, it's either for dying in the line of duty, or something controversial, never for all the things they do to protect people. I've been with a cop for 17 years, and it's the most thankless job. I've kept my mouth shut when people here, including in this thread, have talked out of their asses about cops.

Well then, perhaps I'm in the monority, because I do hold those people in extremely high regard. I suppose those of us with policepeople and firepeople in our immediate families do, though. And yes, it's a shame that these jobs are thankless, but I guess the same can be said for military as well, it seems.

[Saint John]

monority,

Is that a small group of people with swollen glands?

[bluejeangirl76]

monority,

Is that a small group of people with swollen glands?

No, it's people who type too fast... monotypes, you might say.

MINORITY. There. Better?

[Melissa]

I have a question: If a policeperson or fireperson dies in the line of duty, but he or she doesn't die protecting MY city or MY neighborhood, is it ok to put down the fact that they gave up their lives protecting people? Um. No.

Thing is cops and firefighters are not held in high regard for what they do every day. Maybe right after 9/11, but other than that, not really. Every time a cop is in the news, it's either for dying in the line of duty, or something controversial, never for all the things they do to protect people. I've been with a cop for 17 years, and it's the most thankless job. I've kept my mouth shut when people here, including in this thread, have talked out of their asses about cops.

Well then, perhaps I'm in the monority, because I do hold those people in extremely high regard. I suppose those of us with policepeople and firepeople in our immediate families do, though. And yes, it's a shame that these jobs are thankless, but I guess the same can be said for military as well, it seems.

I've always held military in high regard being the kid of a 25 year Air Force vet, but even if my father hadn't served, as well as my grandfather, uncles, and now cousins, I still would of course. And before ever being married to a cop, and my brother becoming a firefighter, I've always held them in high regard too for what they face every day.

[Saint John]

I'm sure to get a load of shit for this,

This is almost always a precursor to someone saying something really fucking stupid ... and you didn't disappoint.

but none of those servicemen gave their lives for me, or any other citizen of this country

Arguably, true. The overwhelming majority lost their lives fighting for freedom(s) ... ours and that of others.

....the last individuals who gave their lives for this country died in Pearl Harbor....unless there is a DIRECT threat on U.S. soil - no one can claim the giving of one's life for me.

For many years now, we've had different branches of the military killing a lot of people that were training to come here and inflict mass casualties. I'd call that a "direct threat."

[Saint John]

monotypes

Outstanding!

[bluejeangirl76]

I have a question: If a policeperson or fireperson dies in the line of duty, but he or she doesn't die protecting MY city or MY neighborhood, is it ok to put down the fact that they gave up their lives protecting people? Um. No.

Thing is cops and firefighters are not held in high regard for what they do every day. Maybe right after 9/11, but other than that, not really. Every time a cop is in the news, it's either for dying in the line of duty, or something controversial, never for all the things they do to protect people. I've been with a cop for 17 years, and it's the most thankless job. I've kept my mouth shut when people here, including in this thread, have talked out of their asses about cops.

Well then, perhaps I'm in the monority, because I do hold those people in extremely high regard. I suppose those of us with policepeople and firepeople in our immediate families do, though. And yes, it's a shame that these jobs are thankless, but I guess the same can be said for military as well, it seems.

I've always held military in high regard being the kid of a 25 year Air Force vet, but even if my father hadn't served, as well as my grandfather, uncles, and now cousins, I still would of course. And before ever being married to a cop, and my brother becoming a firefighter, I've always held them in high regard too for what they face every day.

Wasn't suggesting otherwise by any means. I'm sure you could ask 1000 random people if they respect these positions and surely they would say they do. but do I think people tend to keep it more at the front of their mind and heart when it comes close to home, that's all.