Herbie Herbert On What Jon Cain Was Like From Day One...

[timstar78]

Was reading the interview Herbie Herbert did a few years back with Matthew Carty the other day for the umpteenth time...it's certainly a captivating read. One of the more interesting tales from Herbie is the recounting of his meeting with Jonathan Cain after he had agreed to join the band...

Who knew that the guy who wrote the lovely music for "Open Arms" would be so well-versed in hard ball tactics...?

H: He had finally agreed, and we go through all of the machinations. (I've) got the band at their rehearsal facility in east Oakland, and I'm picking up Jon at the Oakland airport. I had my 928 Porsche at the time, my 1980 928, and I popped the hatch in the back, and I put his keyboard in. The doors aren't even closed - I haven't closed my driver door, he hasn't closed the passenger door - he hands me a tape, and says 'this is a tape of my wife, Tané. Now, here's the deal - you manage her, you get her a label deal, you make her career happen, or take my keyboard out of the back, I'm out, I'm going right back to LA, no Journey.'

M: Oh man.

H: I go, 'Hey we had an agreement, and you had committed to me. And you're touching upon the single biggest problem I have with all people who pick up an instrument and decide that they're entertainers and performers and players. It's at the expense of any sense of commitment. And you were committed on other terms and conditions, and you want to change the deal right now. And that is jive.' And he said, 'Well, than call me jive. Do I get out of the car, or do I stay in?' And, so I said, 'Well, I will get her a label deal. I'm sure it won't be because she deserves it.' And he said, 'Let's listen to the tape.' and I said, 'No, let's not. Just shut the door.' And so, I gotta tell you, in no uncertain terms, I knew what Jon Cain was like day one. Day fucking one.

http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/page7.html

[Don]

That's probably why he and Perry connected musically. Two peas in a pod.

[Michigan Girl]

Ha ha ...seriously, I never believed that!! If it did happen, his strings were being pulled ...
much like the stupid phone calls he makes at times ...not his idea!!

[timstar78]

Ha ha ...seriously, I never believed that!! If it did happen, his strings were being pulled ...
much like the stupid phone calls he makes at times ...not his idea!!

I have to admit the first time I read it, it seemed like one of those music industry-type stories that have a tendency to be fabricated...

[Don]

Ha ha ...seriously, I never believed that!! If it did happen, his strings were being pulled ...
much like the stupid phone calls he makes at times ...not his idea!!

Tané, the French Soft Porn Queen? I think she was pulling on something more than string.

[Jeremey]

H: I go, 'Hey we had an agreement, and you had committed to me. And you're touching upon the single biggest problem I have with all people who pick up an instrument and decide that they're entertainers and performers and players. It's at the expense of any sense of commitment. And you were committed on other terms and conditions, and you want to change the deal right now. And that is jive.' And he said, 'Well, than call me jive. Do I get out of the car, or do I stay in?' And, so I said, 'Well, I will get her a label deal. I'm sure it won't be because she deserves it.' And he said, 'Let's listen to the tape.' and I said, 'No, let's not. Just shut the door.' And so, I gotta tell you, in no uncertain terms, I knew what Jon Cain was like day one. Day fucking one.

Ha ha, that is a conversation that sounds oddly familiar.

[slucero]

H: I go, 'Hey we had an agreement, and you had committed to me. And you're touching upon the single biggest problem I have with all people who pick up an instrument and decide that they're entertainers and performers and players. It's at the expense of any sense of commitment. And you were committed on other terms and conditions, and you want to change the deal right now. And that is jive.' And he said, 'Well, than call me jive. Do I get out of the car, or do I stay in?' And, so I said, 'Well, I will get her a label deal. I'm sure it won't be because she deserves it.' And he said, 'Let's listen to the tape.' and I said, 'No, let's not. Just shut the door.' And so, I gotta tell you, in no uncertain terms, I knew what Jon Cain was like day one. Day fucking one.

Ha ha, that is a conversation that sounds oddly familiar.

I was thinking the exact same thing....

[Rockindeano]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

[Tito]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a nice man. He writes great lyrics and music.

[journeyrock]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

I read this a long time ago. I believed it then and I still believe it. But.....IMHO, Jon doesn't work on his own accord. He's a puppet for others. No one in that band was or is a day in the park. Including Herbie.

[Saint John]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

I do believe the story, but it's ironic how you cherry-pick Herbie stories that fit your liking. If this were said about Perry, and it has been, only exponentially worse, you'd shrug it off as "Herbie being Herbie." I believe this, just like I believe his stories about Perry being one rotten, lying, manipulative SOB (as a band mate). I mean, everyone can't be wrong, and they pretty much all think the same about him.

[portland]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

Oh I could tell........

[Saint John]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

Oh I could tell........

You couldn't tell fucking time if I stuck Big Ben in your huge ass.

[journeyrock]

Oh, the entertainment on this board is well worth the price of admission!

[Michigan Girl]

Herbie said this crap about anyone who defied him ...
he didn't say this sort of thing about Neal because he thought Neal was too dumb to
defy him ...I'm w/gboy, the testicle strings were being tu-tu-tugged
on this one!!

[cudaclan]

Tryanglz, Burnin' In The Third Degree scoreplayed for the "Governator" featured Cain's ex-wife. Did Mugs get a cut as well?

[Voyager]

All of this happened before Jon met Arnel, so it doesn't count. Jon is a better person now after meeting Arnel.

[portland]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

Oh I could tell........

You couldn't tell fucking time if I stuck Big Ben in your huge ass.

At least I can tell time without a digital clock...and fuck you Dan.

[Saint John]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

[portland]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

How about when Journey goes on tour with Perry at the helm or when HELL freezes over?

[Saint John]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

How about when Journey goes on tour with Perry at the helm or when HELL freezes over?

I can take a hint. That's just a nice way of saying no.

[Rockindeano]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

How about when Journey goes on tour with Perry at the helm or when HELL freezes over?

I still haven't eloquently told you what I wanted to do to your ass have I? Well when you're ready, let me know darlin.'

[Don]

Am I hurting you?

[Rockindeano]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

I do believe the story, but it's ironic how you cherry-pick Herbie stories that fit your liking. If this were said about Perry, and it has been, only exponentially worse, you'd shrug it off as "Herbie being Herbie." I believe this, just like I believe his stories about Perry being one rotten, lying, manipulative SOB (as a band mate). I mean, everyone can't be wrong, and they pretty much all think the same about him.

Fair points all around. Of course I take sides, just like everybody here. For the record, I do think Cain is a sonofabitch(saw it first hand), and I do think Perry was not the greatest bandmate based on unfolded events, although I wasn't there. No one is perfect, and they did have an 15 year history, so I am sure Espee did his fair share of fucking up. However, the thread was about Friga, and I offered my honest opinion of the dirty motherfucker who write lullaby's.

[portland]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

How about when Journey goes on tour with Perry at the helm or when HELL freezes over?

I can take a hint. That's just a nice way of saying no.

It all depends on how you look at it.....1/2 glass empty kind of guy?

[portland]

How soon til all the weepy women come roilling in here saying, "I just don't believe this. Jonathan is a very sweet and nice man. He writes beautiful lyrics and music." You know who you are. Ginger, Jana, and the others. Hahaha, I told you Cain was a real sonofabitch. He fits perfectly into Journey. A molded glove if you will.

I do believe the story, but it's ironic how you cherry-pick Herbie stories that fit your liking. If this were said about Perry, and it has been, only exponentially worse, you'd shrug it off as "Herbie being Herbie." I believe this, just like I believe his stories about Perry being one rotten, lying, manipulative SOB (as a band mate). I mean, everyone can't be wrong, and they pretty much all think the same about him.

Fair points all around. Of course I take sides, just like everybody here. For the record, I do think Cain is a sonofabitch(saw it first hand), and I do think Perry was not the greatest bandmate based on unfolded events, although I wasn't there. No one is perfect, and they did have an 15 year history, so I am sure Espee did his fair share of fucking up. However, the thread was about Friga, and I offered my honest opinion of the dirty motherfucker who write lullaby's.

Well all have a side....this band has made it that way.


I don't think Perry was an angel....he as admitted as much, but there are many things that Neal and Cain have said and done over
the long history with this band and they get my vote as asshole #1 and asshole #2.....Perry will have to settle for third place in the rankings.


Cain proved his status with his "I saw a guy who wanted his band back" comment and then said hand me the phone.

[Rockindeano]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

How about when Journey goes on tour with Perry at the helm or when HELL freezes over?

I can take a hint. That's just a nice way of saying no.

It all depends on how you look at it.....1/2 glass empty kind of guy?

Holly, if you ever strode naked in front of me, I would have to be on a leash to keep from dining on your behind. Seriously, I think about different ways to play with your ass. I literally sit around delving up ways and ideas....I guess I have issues.

[Saint John]

I don't think Perry was an angel....he as admitted as much, but there are many things that Neal and Cain have said and done over
the long history with this band and they get my vote as asshole #1 and asshole #2.....Perry will have to settle for third place in the rankings.

I don't see how this could possibly be rationalized. They cow-towed to him on everything. They let him change album covers, fire members, take 10 years off, tour singing Journey songs without the band (something he ironically didn't want them to do 15 years later!), destroy lineups with lies, fire the manager and change musical direction (from rock to gay). What did they ever do to him?!?!

Cain proved his status with his "I saw a guy who wanted his band back" comment and then said hand me the phone.

I totally agree. He proved to be the guy with balls that severed Neal's blind and endless loyalty to a guy that wasn't a good friend, band mate or person at the time. The fact that Nostrildamus hasn't performed once or released a single song proves that he was never going to tour. Herbie knew this and he was the first to go. It's just a shame they didn't make the decision to can Perry in about 1985. From 1985 to 1998 they toured once and sold 3 million albums. That's pathetic, for a band as big as they were. But Perry wrestling the reigns from Herbie slowly destroyed them. He had no idea what the fuck he was doing.

[portland]

fuck you Dan.

Is that a proposition?

How about when Journey goes on tour with Perry at the helm or when HELL freezes over?

I can take a hint. That's just a nice way of saying no.

It all depends on how you look at it.....1/2 glass empty kind of guy?

Holly, if you ever strode naked in front of me, I would have to be on a leash to keep from dining on your behind. Seriously, I think about different ways to play with your ass. I literally sit around delving up ways and ideas....I guess I have issues.

Silence

[portland]

I don't think Perry was an angel....he as admitted as much, but there are many things that Neal and Cain have said and done over
the long history with this band and they get my vote as asshole #1 and asshole #2.....Perry will have to settle for third place in the rankings.

I don't see how this could possibly be rationalized. They cow-towed to him on everything. They let him change album covers, fire members, take 10 years off, tour singing Journey songs without the band (something he ironically didn't want them to do 15 years later!), destroy lineups with lies, fire the manager and change musical direction (from rock to gay). What did they ever do to him?!?!

Cain proved his status with his "I saw a guy who wanted his band back" comment and then said hand me the phone.

I totally agree. He proved to be the guy with balls that severed Neal's blind and endless loyalty to a guy that wasn't a good friend, band mate or person at the time. The fact that Nostrildamus hasn't performed once or released a single song proves that he was never going to tour. Herbie knew this and he was the first to go. It's just a shame they didn't make the decision to can Perry in about 1985.

I don't think Perry was an angel....he as admitted as much, but there are many things that Neal and Cain have said and done over
the long history with this band and they get my vote as asshole #1 and asshole #2.....Perry will have to settle for third place in the rankings.

I don't see how this could possibly be rationalized. They cow-towed to him on everything. They let him change album covers, fire members, take 10 years off, tour singing Journey songs without the band (something he ironically didn't want them to do 15 years later!), destroy lineups with lies, fire the manager and change musical direction (from rock to gay). What did they ever do to him?!?!

Cain proved his status with his "I saw a guy who wanted his band back" comment and then said hand me the phone.

I totally agree. He proved to be the guy with balls that severed Neal's blind and endless loyalty to a guy that wasn't a good friend, band mate or person at the time. The fact that Nostrildamus hasn't performed once or released a single song proves that he was never going to tour. Herbie knew this and he was the first to go. It's just a shame they didn't make the decision to can Perry in about 1985. From 1985 to 1998 they toured once and sold 3 million albums. That's pathetic, for a band as big as they were. But Perry wrestling the reigns from Herbie slowly destroyed them. He had no idea what the fuck he was doing.

Dan...I disagree with your view of Perry....you and I know that.

I just don't understand why you have the feeling that Perry had Neal's blind and endless loyalty? I have never gotten that feeling?