Herbie Herbert On What Jon Cain Was Like From Day One...

[Saint John]

I edited it. delete that.

[Jeremey]

From all counts I have heard, Perry was the only one that stood up to Herbie in the mid-80's when Herbie allegedly wanted a majority stake, financially and decision wise, in the band. This is pretty much why Herbert hates Perry to this day. Who was right who was wrong, it doesn't really matter. I think that most would agree Perry did more to benefit the band than he did it's detriment, up until about 1996 or so. A lot of things are thrown around here regarding Perry and the band and business decisions that were made that I have NO IDEA how some of you came across this information. Nevertheless, it's always a good policy not to believe everything you read on the internet,

[Saint John]

I just don't understand why you have the feeling that Perry had Neal's blind and endless loyalty? I have never gotten that feeling?

The reasons were all mentioned. No other founding member of a band would have put up with all of that shit. When Herbie was solely in charge and making the majority of directional decisions the band was cruising along making money and at the very top of the music scene. Perry wrestled partial control away in about 1985 and the band went straight into the shitter from that time until 1998. Nobody could argue otherwise.

[kgdjpubs]

From all counts I have heard, Perry was the only one that stood up to Herbie in the mid-80's when Herbie allegedly wanted a majority stake, financially and decision wise, in the band. This is pretty much why Herbert hates Perry to this day. Who was right who was wrong, it doesn't really matter. I think that most would agree Perry did more to benefit the band than he did it's detriment, up until about 1996 or so. A lot of things are thrown around here regarding Perry and the band and business decisions that were made that I have NO IDEA how some of you came across this information. Nevertheless, it's always a good policy not to believe everything you read on the internet,

ahh, the famous who is more important to the success of the band arguement. Is it the band who writes and performs the songs, or the manager who provides the ability for someone outside of the band to hear the songs? Personally, I can see both sides of the debate. No clear-cut answer, and not likely to be resolved anytime soon either.

That said, a majority stake is a bit extreme, if that is true.

[Michigan Girl]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

[Saint John]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

Perry took the band straight into the ground from the mid-80's on, starting with the atrocious ROR direction change. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were pumping out rock albums that sold 10 million+, Journey was fronted by a guy that had a fucking Linda Evans hairdo and was singing songs by Elvis and The Four Tops. Then he toured without Journey ... cracking the stone ... but said to Journey in 1998 "Don't tour as Journey and crack the stone." I guess he meant because he already did. Should have given Herbie what he wanted. He would have kept them on top and everyone would have won.

[Michigan Girl]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

Perry took the band straight into the ground from the mid-80's on, starting with the atrocious ROR direction change. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were pumping out rock albums that sold 10 million+, Journey was fronted by a guy that had a fucking Linda Evans hairdo and was singing songs by Elvis and The Four Tops. Then he toured without Journey ... cracking the stone ... but said to Journey in 1998 "Don't tour as Journey and crack the stone." I guess he meant because he already did. Should have given Herbie what he wanted. He would have kept them on top and everyone would have won.

lol ...we do not see eye to eye on this, but I have to hand it to you~ this is fuuuuunnny!!

[SF-Dano]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

Well considering they were at the top of the music world at that time while under Herbie's direction, yeah I probably would have cut him a pretty sweet deal. It appears, from the comment, that eveyone else in the band aside from Perry had no problem with it either. Herbie is rough, but remember he is also the guy who made sure that Valory and Smith still got paid after being uncerimoniously dumped by Perry.

And yes I am sure they can all be asses at times. But Perry still holds the title. Just the way I see it, not trying to convice anyone else.

[kgdjpubs]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

Perry took the band straight into the ground from the mid-80's on, starting with the atrocious ROR direction change. While Bon Jovi and Def Leppard were pumping out rock albums that sold 10 million+, Journey was fronted by a guy that had a fucking Linda Evans hairdo and was singing songs by Elvis and The Four Tops. Then he toured without Journey ... cracking the stone ... but said to Journey in 1998 "Don't tour as Journey and crack the stone." I guess he meant because he already did. Should have given Herbie what he wanted. He would have kept them on top and everyone would have won.

which is why Herbie is bitter. ROR wasn't the commercial flop it was made out to be by revisionist history. It wasn't great, but nothing to sneeze at either. It was Perry taking the band into forced retirement and taking everything Herbie Herbert had spilled blood over for ten years away at the same time that hurt more than anything else. In the long run, ROR would have done fine if the band had continued making albums, and more people picked up the earlier stuff.

Could Herbie have made it work without Perry? With the right person in 1988ish, maybe. If it failed though, it wouldn't be for lack of effort.

[Jeremey]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

Well considering they were at the top of the music world at that time while under Herbie's direction, yeah I probably would have cut him a pretty sweet deal. It appears, from the comment, that eveyone else in the band aside from Perry had no problem with it either. Herbie is rough, but remember he is also the guy who made sure that Valory and Smith still got paid after being uncerimoniously dumped by Perry.

And yes I am sure they can all be asses at times. But Perry still holds the title. Just the way I see it, not trying to convice anyone else.

My understanding was that it would be handing Herbert the majority control of the organization. Nobody in the band was right with that, apparently Perry was the only one with the business sense to stand up for the others, and I've been told they are grateful for that to this day.

Any performing group that writes their own songs and sells out stadiums would be total and complete ignoramuses to hand over majority control to a suit in that organization. If anyone thinks Herbert was more critical to the success of Journey than Perry, Schon, and Cain combined, you're just being silly. I have no idea what the argument or the terms were but it sounds like a power grab from what I've seen in this business. My understanding was Herbert was pretty much an equal part in the business at that point, which is way different than a traditional 25% off the top manager.

[Don]

Well Herbie deserves a lot of credit that's for sure, but majority stake?!?!
Thank goodness Perry has a brain ...would any of you allowed it?!?!

Well considering they were at the top of the music world at that time while under Herbie's direction, yeah I probably would have cut him a pretty sweet deal. It appears, from the comment, that eveyone else in the band aside from Perry had no problem with it either. Herbie is rough, but remember he is also the guy who made sure that Valory and Smith still got paid after being uncerimoniously dumped by Perry.

And yes I am sure they can all be asses at times. But Perry still holds the title. Just the way I see it, not trying to convice anyone else.

My understanding was that it would be handing Herbert the majority control of the organization. Nobody in the band was right with that, apparently Perry was the only one with the business sense to stand up for the others, and I've been told they are grateful for that to this day.

Any performing group that writes their own songs and sells out stadiums would be total and complete ignoramuses to hand over majority control to a suit in that organization. If anyone thinks Herbert was more critical to the success of Journey than Perry, Schon, and Cain combined, you're just being silly. I have no idea what the argument or the terms were but it sounds like a power grab from what I've seen in this business. My understanding was Herbert was pretty much an equal part in the business at that point, which is way different than a traditional 25% off the top manager.

What about Azoff? He's the biggest guy in the business. Does he get 25% or does have enough money making acts were he can get a lesser % and still be happy.

[slucero]

Journey in the 80's had more leverage... todays' Journey has less... if they wanted Azzoff... and considered him the best.. then he had the leverage

Its a win-win for Azzoff... he gets Journey at his price.. and the possibility of a reunion... also $$ for him

[Don]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry saw he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

[journeyrock]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry saw he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

I tend to agree with that. It makes a difference when you know you have a backup plan. Personally I think it was only because of his mother that he even went back to Journey for ROR. He wanted to continue on a solo career. I don't know what the terms of his contract with Sony were tho

[Saint John]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry thought he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

Fixed it.

[Don]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry thought he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

Fixed it.

During that time, he was doing as well on the charts with his solo singles as Journey had done with Escape. Oh Sherrie charted higher than any song off of Frontiers. Tie that in with his 'We Are The World' cameo and at that moment I believe he saw himself as Journey sans Herbie and the rest of the group.

[Lora]

A lot of things are thrown around here regarding Perry and the band and business decisions that were made that I have NO IDEA how some of you came across this information. Nevertheless, it's always a good policy not to believe everything you read on the internet,

So true. And so sad that some venomous people around here take such joy in tearing down Journey members, past and present, when they are clueless. Yes, clueless. Most of the "facts" I see these people post are just laughable.

Oh yeah, and GO GIANTS!

[Saint John]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry thought he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

Fixed it.

During that time, he was doing as well on the charts with his solo singles as Journey had done with Escape. Oh Sherrie charted higher than any song off of Frontiers. Tie that in with his 'We Are The World' cameo and at that moment I believe he saw himself as Journey sans Herbie and the rest of the group.

Sales weren't even close, though.

[Art Vandelay]

A lot of things are thrown around here regarding Perry and the band and business decisions that were made that I have NO IDEA how some of you came across this information. Nevertheless, it's always a good policy not to believe everything you read on the internet,

So true. And so sad that some venomous people around here take such joy in tearing down Journey members, past and present, when they are clueless. Yes, clueless. Most of the "facts" I see these people post are just laughable.

Oh yeah, and GO GIANTS!

Hi-five (even though I'm a Phillies fan).

[Don]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry thought he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

Fixed it.

During that time, he was doing as well on the charts with his solo singles as Journey had done with Escape. Oh Sherrie charted higher than any song off of Frontiers. Tie that in with his 'We Are The World' cameo and at that moment I believe he saw himself as Journey sans Herbie and the rest of the group.

Sales weren't even close, though.

Album sales, no. Perry was getting play on MTV and the radio though and for a freshman effort (aside from his Grammy nominated duet with Kenny Loggins), Street Talk definitely had to be seen as a success, I would think.

I think it was successful enough to give Perry the business courage to think he could pull rank on Herbie.

[Jana]

I think Street Talk is what changed everything. With the success of the album and especially 'Oh Sherrie', Perry thought he could be equivalent to Journey without actually being in the band and it gave him the incentive to dictate what he wanted Journey to be.

Fixed it.

During that time, he was doing as well on the charts with his solo singles as Journey had done with Escape. Oh Sherrie charted higher than any song off of Frontiers. Tie that in with his 'We Are The World' cameo and at that moment I believe he saw himself as Journey sans Herbie and the rest of the group.

Sales weren't even close, though.

Album sales, no. Perry was getting play on MTV and the radio though and for a freshman effort (aside from his Grammy nominated duet with Kenny Loggins), Street Talk definitely had to be seen as a success, I would think.

I think it was successful enough to give Perry the business courage to think he could pull rank on Herbie.

That one interview I read, it seems like he was leaning towards another solo album and his mother pushed him towards another Journey album.

[Don]

People hear Oh Sherrie and they think Journey. People hear When I see You Smile and they think John Waite. Easy to see why Perry would think he could move on with the Journey sound without bringing everything else that's attached to it (Neal, Jon, Ross, etc.).

[portland]

A lot of things are thrown around here regarding Perry and the band and business decisions that were made that I have NO IDEA how some of you came across this information. Nevertheless, it's always a good policy not to believe everything you read on the internet,

So true. And so sad that some venomous people around here take such joy in tearing down Journey members, past and present, when they are clueless. Yes, clueless. Most of the "facts" I see these people post are just laughable.

Oh yeah, and GO GIANTS!

Well there is plenty of speculation....that is one thing that is fact.


I think that some band members don't do themselves any favors by making comments in interviews about other band members...from
what I have seen Perry seems to take the high road.

I don't have any "inside" knowledge of what happened.....and in truth it's none of my business.


As a fan I just wish that things were different....I think they were the best....and now it's not the same....has not been since TBF.

[Don]

Does Perry really have 100 million dollars in assets?

[Rockindeano]

And so sad that some venomous people around here take such joy in tearing down Journey members, past and present, when they are clueless. Yes, clueless. Most of the "facts" I see these people post are just laughable.

I'll take my responsibility and punishment for this. You're right. I have a bigger than big mouth and I should only comment on issues and circumstances I have personally dealt with. I am not nearly diplomatic as Lora is(another shocker), and to be honest, I wouldn't be myself if I were. I do think you are correct in that a bunch of us from the bleachers are calling the Journey saga like we were there. My only personal flirtations with the band members were of a few years ago, and I don't have fond memories. Sorry to piss you off Lora.

[Lora]

And so sad that some venomous people around here take such joy in tearing down Journey members, past and present, when they are clueless. Yes, clueless. Most of the "facts" I see these people post are just laughable.

I'll take my responsibility and punishment for this. You're right. I have a bigger than big mouth and I should only comment on issues and circumstances I have personally dealt with. I am not nearly diplomatic as Lora is(another shocker), and to be honest, I wouldn't be myself if I were. I do think you are correct in that a bunch of us from the bleachers are calling the Journey saga like we were there. My only personal flirtations with the band members were of a few years ago, and I don't have fond memories. Sorry to piss you off Lora.

Not pissed off, Snookems. I know and understand where you are coming from...well, most of the time.

It's the Grassy Knoll crowd I'm referring to.

[Saint John]

It's the Grassy Knoll crowd I'm referring to.

Yeah, I'm not too fond of them either.

[Don]

Well, if we are only going to go for 100% fact, what's left to talk about? Seeing as everyone has signed non-disclosure agreements, that pretty much eliminates talking about anything interesting concerning Journey.
I mean we can scour the net for some undetectable back up vocals so and so did on some song years ago or the latest Air Supply cover by Pineda but that's not really as fun as theorizing and prophesizing about the band and it's members.

[portland]

It's the Grassy Knoll crowd I'm referring to.

Yeah, I'm not too fond of them either.

You are the leader of the pack.

[Saint John]

Seeing as everyone has signed non-disclosure agreements

As we know, that was initiated by Nostrildamus, and I find it hard to believe that he did that to protect the antics of others. And you're right; what the hell else would we talk about? You got any Pineda/Air Supply boots?