Herbie Herbert On What Jon Cain Was Like From Day One...

[Rockindeano]

I know they were big, but Journey was NEVER the biggest band in the world, at any time, Dan.

... in the U.S.

Again, majorly big, but never the biggest. There was always someone who was a bit bigger during the 80's, be it REO Hi Infidelity in '81, Springsteen and Born in the USA in '84, Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet in '85 or Def Lippard with whatever the Hell they had going. Not putting your guys down Daniel, but they were never quite Kings...but they were close.

There's a 1983 'Most Popular Band' Gallup poll that would disagree with you.

I was wondering how long it would take to bring out the tried and true good ol Gallup Poll. One year, a poll says they were the biggest. Let me ask you this, and again, I am not putting them down, but the artists I mentioned earlier...do you think Journey could out draw any of those I mentioned? It was good that Journey missed Thriller, Born in the USA, Slippery When Wet and Appetite for Destruction, wouldn't you agree? Those were the monsters of the 80's. As good as Frontiers was in '83, it simply didn't rival those other tours.

[Jana]

I know they were big, but Journey was NEVER the biggest band in the world, at any time, Dan.

... in the U.S.

Again, majorly big, but never the biggest. There was always someone who was a bit bigger during the 80's, be it REO Hi Infidelity in '81, Springsteen and Born in the USA in '84, Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet in '85 or Def Lippard with whatever the Hell they had going. Not putting your guys down Daniel, but they were never quite Kings...but they were close.

There's a 1983 'Most Popular Band' Gallup poll that would disagree with you.

I was wondering how long it would take to bring out the tried and true good ol Gallup Poll. One year, a poll says they were the biggest. Let me ask you this, and again, I am not putting them down, but the artists I mentioned earlier...do you think Journey could out draw any of those I mentioned? It was good that Journey missed Thriller, Born in the USA, Slippery When Wet and Appetite for Destruction, wouldn't you agree? Those were the monsters of the 80's. As good as Frontiers was in '83, it simply didn't rival those other tours.

What about U2? In 87, when the Joshua Tree was released, in just a couple of months it sold 7 million albums worldwide, and a total of 14 million in the span of a year and a half.

[Rockindeano]

What about U2? In 87, when the Joshua Tree was released, in just a couple of months it sold 7 million albums worldwide, and a total of 14 million in the span of a year and a half.

I knew I was missing another huge monster.

Hey Gunbot, go back and fetch us tour numbers for Born in the USA, Thriller, Joshua, Appetite, Slippery and Frontiers or even Escape. Would be interesting to see the differences if there are any.

[Don]

I know they were big, but Journey was NEVER the biggest band in the world, at any time, Dan.

... in the U.S.

Again, majorly big, but never the biggest. There was always someone who was a bit bigger during the 80's, be it REO Hi Infidelity in '81, Springsteen and Born in the USA in '84, Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet in '85 or Def Lippard with whatever the Hell they had going. Not putting your guys down Daniel, but they were never quite Kings...but they were close.

There's a 1983 'Most Popular Band' Gallup poll that would disagree with you.

In 83, Journey was the most popular rockband in America. I can attest to that. However, that was really it, that one year in their long history, when they were truly the uncontested king of the mountain. Escape might have hit #1 but Frontiers was really the album that attracted the masses to their concerts. What helped was the videos of course. Unlike Escape, where they used live video promos, the band actually made real albeit sometimes silly videos for Frontiers but it was what MTV was looking for and it helped them fill stadiums that year.
Soon after, there was a Tidal Wave of huge albums that came out over the next five years (Slippery When Wet, Hysteria, 1984 & 5150, Appetite for Destruction, Joshua Tree and Permanent Vacation) that changed the landscape completely as far as the average rock fan's receptiveness to Journey's ballad heavy playlist. While ROR and it's subsequent tour did well, very well in fact, it was nothing in scope to the success the band had enjoyed just a few short years before with Frontiers.

[Rockindeano]

On a side note, it is impressive that Journey beat head to head in '83, those fluffy Euro fags, The Police and their Synchronicity Tour. Good job Journey, never let a Euro beat you.

[Don]

The biggest money making tour of the 80s was Bad (Michael Jackson) making around 125 million. The Born In The USA tour made around 90 million dollars. The Victory Tour (Jackson and his brothers made about 75 million) After that, it's a pretty big drop off money wise.

Most of the big tours back then (Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, etc.) were averaging between 150/200 shows when all was said and done. Journey's Frontiers tour, while being their most successful to date, didn't even make the top ten tours of the decade when compared against the band's peers though it still did very well for a band that had been bopping around since the 70s.

[brywool]

I know they were big, but Journey was NEVER the biggest band in the world, at any time, Dan.

... in the U.S.

Again, majorly big, but never the biggest. There was always someone who was a bit bigger during the 80's, be it REO Hi Infidelity in '81, Springsteen and Born in the USA in '84, Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet in '85 or Def Lippard with whatever the Hell they had going. Not putting your guys down Daniel, but they were never quite Kings...but they were close.

REO BIGGER THAN JOURNEY? NEVER.
Hi Infidelity sold great but RE-Friggin-O NEVER did the kind of concert attendance numbers Journey did. They never could. Bon Jovi- when they were good, yeah, but REO??? Gawd no. They had a hit album but they were not the huge concert draw Journey was.

[Rockindeano]

I know they were big, but Journey was NEVER the biggest band in the world, at any time, Dan.

... in the U.S.

Again, majorly big, but never the biggest. There was always someone who was a bit bigger during the 80's, be it REO Hi Infidelity in '81, Springsteen and Born in the USA in '84, Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet in '85 or Def Lippard with whatever the Hell they had going. Not putting your guys down Daniel, but they were never quite Kings...but they were close.

REO BIGGER THAN JOURNEY? NEVER.
Hi Infidelity sold great but RE-Friggin-O NEVER did the kind of concert attendance numbers Journey did. They never could. Bon Jovi- when they were good, yeah, but REO??? Gawd no. They had a hit album but they were not the huge concert draw Journey was.

I hear what you are sayin' dude, but those Fags did really well in '81. Hell, so did Styx. Hell, Twigs Paradise Theatre was a monster too. I would say off the top of my head, that Escape crushed Hi Infidelity tour wise, but the album sales would be fun to compare. Did REO play any stadiums on the Hi tour?

[Saint John]

I hear what you are sayin' dude, but those Fags did really well in '81. Hell, so did Styx. Hell, Twigs Paradise Theatre was a monster too. I would say off the top of my head, that Escape crushed Hi Infidelity tour wise, but the album sales would be fun to compare. Did REO play any stadiums on the Hi tour?

Escape is a beast and I'll tell you why. If you add up all of the sales of Escape in other forms, the thing is probably close to 15 million in "album" sales (and perhaps more). Open Arms was featured on Mariah Carey's Daydream album, which sold about 18 million worldwide (or 1.8 million sales by itself). 3 songs are on Greatest Hits, which sold 15 million copies. Escape, alone, will surpass the 10 million mark when it's re-certified. DSB has 4+ million downloads, not to mention the Glee version. Then there's the 1981 Live In Houston DVD, the Arrival DVD with Augeri, the Live in Vegas DVD and the Manila DVD, GH Live, The Essential Journey and the Revelation re-records all of which feature Escape songs. And I'm sure I'm missing a few of the "other" sales.

[Rockindeano]

I hear what you are sayin' dude, but those Fags did really well in '81. Hell, so did Styx. Hell, Twigs Paradise Theatre was a monster too. I would say off the top of my head, that Escape crushed Hi Infidelity tour wise, but the album sales would be fun to compare. Did REO play any stadiums on the Hi tour?

Escape is a beast and I'll tell you why. If you add up all of the sales of Escape in other forms, the thing is probably close to 15 million in "album" sales (and perhaps more). Open Arms was featured on Mariah Carey's Daydream album, which sold about 18 million worldwide (or 1.8 million sales by itself). 3 songs are on Greatest Hits, which sold 15 million copies. Escape, alone, will surpass the 10 million mark when it's re-certified. DSB has 4+ million downloads, not to mention the Glee version. Then there's the 1981 Live In Houston DVD, the Arrival DVD with Augeri, the Live in Vegas DVD and the Manila DVD, GH Live, The Essential Journey and the Revelation re-records all of which feature Escape songs. And I'm sure I'm missing a few of the "other" sales.

Not arguing Escape. It was an Epic tour, but still wasn't a top ten tour in the 80's. You are spinning your wheels dude. You can't change the numbers that are set in stone.

The funny thing is, while I agree Escape is a monster, it hasn't outsold Hi Infidelity. I bet Cronin laughs at this every night before he puts herself to sleep.

[Saint John]

The funny thing is, while I agree Escape is a monster, it hasn't outsold Hi Infidelity.

It will when they get it re-certified, but, regardless, it's probably made at least 3 times as much money.

[Don]

If we are actually talking about the year of release, Hi Infidelity was #1 for 15 weeks and the best selling rock album of 1981. The reason I think Escape might still be behind it sales wise even now is because a lot of people have opted to pick up Journey's Greatest Hits Instead. With Sony and Warner losing interest in re-certifying acts that are no longer signed by them, we may never get the real numbers on total sales.

[Art Vandelay]

I know they were big, but Journey was NEVER the biggest band in the world, at any time, Dan.

... in the U.S.

Again, majorly big, but never the biggest. There was always someone who was a bit bigger during the 80's, be it REO Hi Infidelity in '81, Springsteen and Born in the USA in '84, Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet in '85 or Def Lippard with whatever the Hell they had going. Not putting your guys down Daniel, but they were never quite Kings...but they were close.

There's a 1983 'Most Popular Band' Gallup poll that would disagree with you.

I was wondering how long it would take to bring out the tried and true good ol Gallup Poll. One year, a poll says they were the biggest. Let me ask you this, and again, I am not putting them down, but the artists I mentioned earlier...do you think Journey could out draw any of those I mentioned? It was good that Journey missed Thriller, Born in the USA, Slippery When Wet and Appetite for Destruction, wouldn't you agree? Those were the monsters of the 80's. As good as Frontiers was in '83, it simply didn't rival those other tours.

I don't disagree...it's all about time and place, and they were fortunate enough to have it in '83.

[Michigan Girl]

I did see a Hi~Infi show in OKC ...geez, I think it was at the Myriad!!
I do not remember it being bigger than Escape and I saw that 2wice.
I also can't remember why I saw the Hi~infi show just once, as it's one of my
top 10 LP's of all time ...really good show and I sat/stood in front of ric~rac!!

[annie89509]

Giving opinion and speculating about our favorites are what fans do. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother visiting fan forums. As long as opinions are not vindictive or expressed as fact – SJ!? – discussions (positive/negative/humorous) help us relate to each other and to the band.

Jeremey’s post on power struggle between HH and SP is very informative, in which only fans of this forum have explored in detail from time to time over the years. SP alluded to “business that just didn’t seem right” and Neal chimed in with “rotweiller took a big chunk” in the following unedited, uncensored interview for radio (ROR promo). Found and uploaded the audio to share. Listen carefully to what brought SP back to Journey (around the 20:00 mark):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/ZGJjW ... Z2xjR0E9PQ

Notice all songs pre-ROR were trademarked as “Weed High–Nightmare Productions” (HH’s company). ROR and after…separate publishing notation(s) for each writer of the song(s).

Also, in that scathing interview referred by the opening post, remember Herbie relating typical band meeting where everyone (each with his own lawyer) sat in long conference table hashing things over? Herbie sat on one end, and Steve the other. Only 2 spoke, their voices shouting louder and louder, while all the rest of the guys sitting in the middle across from each other, turned their heads from side to side, in synchronized fashion like in tennis. Hilarious mental image…

I believe SP had the leverage to win all these power struggles, with full support of his bandmates. Everything would have been fine had his voice held up and the band stayed intact. When the band fell apart, they all turned on him.

[portland]

Giving opinion and speculating about our favorites are what fans do. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother visiting fan forums. As long as opinions are not vindictive or expressed as fact – SJ!? – discussions (positive/negative/humorous) help us relate to each other and to the band.

Jeremey’s post on power struggle between HH and SP is very informative, in which only fans of this forum have explored in detail from time to time over the years. SP alluded to “business that just didn’t seem right” and Neal chimed in with “rotweiller took a big chunk” in the following unedited, uncensored interview for radio (ROR promo). Found and uploaded the audio to share. Listen carefully to what brought SP back to Journey (around the 20:00 mark):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/ZGJjW ... Z2xjR0E9PQ

Notice all songs pre-ROR were trademarked as “Weed High–Nightmare Productions” (HH’s company). ROR and after…separate publishing notation(s) for each writer of the song(s).

Also, in that scathing interview referred by the opening post, remember Herbie relating typical band meeting where everyone (each with his own lawyer) sat in long conference table hashing things over? Herbie sat on one end, and Steve the other. Only 2 spoke, their voices shouting louder and louder, while all the rest of the guys sitting in the middle across from each other, turned their heads from side to side, in synchronized fashion like in tennis. Hilarious mental image…

I believe SP had the leverage to win all these power struggles, with full support of his bandmates. Everything would have been fine had his voice held up and the band stayed intact. When the band fell apart, they all turned on him.

Thanks Annie.....

We all come here because we all love this band. It's amazing to me that there is still so much passion in the discussions....they were that
good.

[Jana]

Giving opinion and speculating about our favorites are what fans do. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother visiting fan forums. As long as opinions are not vindictive or expressed as fact – SJ!? – discussions (positive/negative/humorous) help us relate to each other and to the band.

Jeremey’s post on power struggle between HH and SP is very informative, in which only fans of this forum have explored in detail from time to time over the years. SP alluded to “business that just didn’t seem right” and Neal chimed in with “rotweiller took a big chunk” in the following unedited, uncensored interview for radio (ROR promo). Found and uploaded the audio to share. Listen carefully to what brought SP back to Journey (around the 20:00 mark):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/ZGJjW ... Z2xjR0E9PQ

Notice all songs pre-ROR were trademarked as “Weed High–Nightmare Productions” (HH’s company). ROR and after…separate publishing notation(s) for each writer of the song(s).

Also, in that scathing interview referred by the opening post, remember Herbie relating typical band meeting where everyone (each with his own lawyer) sat in long conference table hashing things over? Herbie sat on one end, and Steve the other. Only 2 spoke, their voices shouting louder and louder, while all the rest of the guys sitting in the middle across from each other, turned their heads from side to side, in synchronized fashion like in tennis. Hilarious mental image…

I believe SP had the leverage to win all these power struggles, with full support of his bandmates. Everything would have been fine had his voice held up and the band stayed intact. When the band fell apart, they all turned on him.

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing? I call that moving on because they had no choice. Perry is the one that seemed negative in the VH1 show towards his ex-bandmates and seemed to turn on them, the stone comment and "waaaa, I never felt part of the band.".

[portland]

Giving opinion and speculating about our favorites are what fans do. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother visiting fan forums. As long as opinions are not vindictive or expressed as fact – SJ!? – discussions (positive/negative/humorous) help us relate to each other and to the band.

Jeremey’s post on power struggle between HH and SP is very informative, in which only fans of this forum have explored in detail from time to time over the years. SP alluded to “business that just didn’t seem right” and Neal chimed in with “rotweiller took a big chunk” in the following unedited, uncensored interview for radio (ROR promo). Found and uploaded the audio to share. Listen carefully to what brought SP back to Journey (around the 20:00 mark):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/ZGJjW ... Z2xjR0E9PQ

Notice all songs pre-ROR were trademarked as “Weed High–Nightmare Productions” (HH’s company). ROR and after…separate publishing notation(s) for each writer of the song(s).

Also, in that scathing interview referred by the opening post, remember Herbie relating typical band meeting where everyone (each with his own lawyer) sat in long conference table hashing things over? Herbie sat on one end, and Steve the other. Only 2 spoke, their voices shouting louder and louder, while all the rest of the guys sitting in the middle across from each other, turned their heads from side to side, in synchronized fashion like in tennis. Hilarious mental image…

I believe SP had the leverage to win all these power struggles, with full support of his bandmates. Everything would have been fine had his voice held up and the band stayed intact. When the band fell apart, they all turned on him.

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing? I call that moving on because they had no choice. Perry is the one that seemed negative in the VH1 show towards his ex-bandmates and seemed to turn on them, the stone comment and "waaaa, I never felt part of the band.".

Well considering no one really knows (or at least is willing to talk about) all of the facts...you don't really know who turned on who do you?

It's all speculation, Lora made that loud and clear.

[Jana]

Giving opinion and speculating about our favorites are what fans do. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother visiting fan forums. As long as opinions are not vindictive or expressed as fact – SJ!? – discussions (positive/negative/humorous) help us relate to each other and to the band.

Jeremey’s post on power struggle between HH and SP is very informative, in which only fans of this forum have explored in detail from time to time over the years. SP alluded to “business that just didn’t seem right” and Neal chimed in with “rotweiller took a big chunk” in the following unedited, uncensored interview for radio (ROR promo). Found and uploaded the audio to share. Listen carefully to what brought SP back to Journey (around the 20:00 mark):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/ZGJjW ... Z2xjR0E9PQ

Notice all songs pre-ROR were trademarked as “Weed High–Nightmare Productions” (HH’s company). ROR and after…separate publishing notation(s) for each writer of the song(s).

Also, in that scathing interview referred by the opening post, remember Herbie relating typical band meeting where everyone (each with his own lawyer) sat in long conference table hashing things over? Herbie sat on one end, and Steve the other. Only 2 spoke, their voices shouting louder and louder, while all the rest of the guys sitting in the middle across from each other, turned their heads from side to side, in synchronized fashion like in tennis. Hilarious mental image…

I believe SP had the leverage to win all these power struggles, with full support of his bandmates. Everything would have been fine had his voice held up and the band stayed intact. When the band fell apart, they all turned on him.

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing? I call that moving on because they had no choice. Perry is the one that seemed negative in the VH1 show towards his ex-bandmates and seemed to turn on them, the stone comment and "waaaa, I never felt part of the band.".

Well considering no one really knows (or at least is willing to talk about) all of the facts...you don't really know who turned on who do you?

It's all speculation, Lora made that loud and clear.

I'm sure you meant to address your comment to Annie, too, (not just me) regarding the part I bolded of her statement regarding the band turning on Perry.

[portland]

Giving opinion and speculating about our favorites are what fans do. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t bother visiting fan forums. As long as opinions are not vindictive or expressed as fact – SJ!? – discussions (positive/negative/humorous) help us relate to each other and to the band.

Jeremey’s post on power struggle between HH and SP is very informative, in which only fans of this forum have explored in detail from time to time over the years. SP alluded to “business that just didn’t seem right” and Neal chimed in with “rotweiller took a big chunk” in the following unedited, uncensored interview for radio (ROR promo). Found and uploaded the audio to share. Listen carefully to what brought SP back to Journey (around the 20:00 mark):

http://www.yousendit.com/download/ZGJjW ... Z2xjR0E9PQ

Notice all songs pre-ROR were trademarked as “Weed High–Nightmare Productions” (HH’s company). ROR and after…separate publishing notation(s) for each writer of the song(s).

Also, in that scathing interview referred by the opening post, remember Herbie relating typical band meeting where everyone (each with his own lawyer) sat in long conference table hashing things over? Herbie sat on one end, and Steve the other. Only 2 spoke, their voices shouting louder and louder, while all the rest of the guys sitting in the middle across from each other, turned their heads from side to side, in synchronized fashion like in tennis. Hilarious mental image…

I believe SP had the leverage to win all these power struggles, with full support of his bandmates. Everything would have been fine had his voice held up and the band stayed intact. When the band fell apart, they all turned on him.

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing? I call that moving on because they had no choice. Perry is the one that seemed negative in the VH1 show towards his ex-bandmates and seemed to turn on them, the stone comment and "waaaa, I never felt part of the band.".

Well considering no one really knows (or at least is willing to talk about) all of the facts...you don't really know who turned on who do you?

It's all speculation, Lora made that loud and clear.

I'm sure you meant to address your comment to Annie, too, (not just me) regarding the part I bolded of her statement regarding the band turning on Perry.

I was addressing it to anyone who reads it....I just quoted you as you were the last one to voice your opinion.

I know your stance and you know mine....and Lora has said that neither of us know anything

[livin2do]

Seriously? It's been almost ten years...

I'm amazed to see people still debating that interview. I never took what Herbie told me as gospel, just as someone with a story to tell that I was eager to hear. And I would love to hear ALL sides of the story - especially Perry's - because I am and always will be a Journey FAN.

As time has passed, we have seen a lot more changes to this band. I always said that I thought they deserved the right to continue working, even if Steve Perry didn't want to. I still do think that they have that right. But, it has been clear to me that the members are more than capable of making "business decisions" that feel more to me like "dick moves." I don't believe that Cain or Schon show loyalty to anyone unless they stand to make money from their association with them.

I have no inside knowledge, but I still believe that they let Augeri take the fall for something that they likely had full knowledge of, and all it might have taken to keep him in the fold was for them to take a summer off. Is that so much to ask, really? Instead of that, they likely thought they could get away with putting Augeri out there, replacing his vocal track, and raking in the cash. To say this has soured my opinion of the band would be an understatement.

This all being said, I love the Arnel story. He is a true find, and the band saved some of its best post-Perry writing for Revelation. They proved to me they can still write and perform songs I love, and that's what made me love Journey all those years ago. So, I still listen to the music, and look forward to what they put out. I still plan for my daughter's first concert to be the upcoming tour. But I no longer feel the admiration I once had for Cain and Schon, outside of the obvious talents they have as composers and performers. The quote that still sticks with me?

"Every fan - and this is what I thought I was going to have with you - they fall in love with the songs, fell in love with the music and the passion of the performances that is undeniable, and just read into it that these guys are bigger, better, deeper people than they might really be."

[Saint John]

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing?

After ROR they waited patiently for almost 10 years and he rewarded them by touring without the band. Then, seeing that he cracked the stone and went on without them, they put together their own new lineup and were ready to tour and record when he suddenly "felt like being in Journey again." And then he fucked them again. Pretty classy guy.

[Art Vandelay]

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing?

After ROR they waited patiently for almost 10 years and he rewarded them by touring without the band. Then, seeing that he cracked the stone and went on without them, they put together their own new lineup and were ready to tour and record when he suddenly "felt like being in Journey again." And then he fucked them again. Pretty classy guy.

They all toured in one fashion or another BEFORE he toured in '94. Nice try, though!

[Saint John]

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing?

After ROR they waited patiently for almost 10 years and he rewarded them by touring without the band. Then, seeing that he cracked the stone and went on without them, they put together their own new lineup and were ready to tour and record when he suddenly "felt like being in Journey again." And then he fucked them again. Pretty classy guy.

They all toured in one fashion or another BEFORE he toured in '94. Nice try, though!

Not singing Journey songs.

[Art Vandelay]

How did they turn on him? After ROR, they never said a word and waited almost ten years for him. After the TBF fiasco, all they wanted to do was move on after waiting well over a year for him. I guess they should have kept on waiting until, what, now, and nothing?

After ROR they waited patiently for almost 10 years and he rewarded them by touring without the band. Then, seeing that he cracked the stone and went on without them, they put together their own new lineup and were ready to tour and record when he suddenly "felt like being in Journey again." And then he fucked them again. Pretty classy guy.

They all toured in one fashion or another BEFORE he toured in '94. Nice try, though!

Not singing Journey songs.

1. Anyone can play anything on tour
2. The Storm played Journey tunes
3. Perry's tour was in no way advertised as being related to a Journey tour in any way. And anyone who bought a ticket to the show and didn't expect to hear a Journey song is a fool.

Swing and a miss, Daniel!

[Saint John]

1. Anyone can play anything on tour
2. The Storm played Journey tunes
3. Perry's tour was in no way advertised as being related to a Journey tour in any way. And anyone who bought a ticket to the show and didn't expect to hear a Journey song is a fool.

Swing and a miss, Daniel!

Keep telling yourself you're making sense, but you're not. Steve Perry took his "band" on the road and toured singing predominantly Journey songs without the guys that waited almost a decade for him. The backbone of Journey is Schon, Perry and Cain. No one gives a shit if The Storm played a song or two. Besides, they had 3 past and present members of Journey, including a former vocalist so of course they're gonna play some Journey. Hell, he didn't even have the decency to face Jonathan Cain when he came to one of the shows to get some answers.

It was only after they decided to move because of his unwillingness to commit to the band that he *suddenly* wanted back in. But, like Herbie said, he never intended to tour, and history has proven as much. It was simply a ploy to try and destroy what was left of the band and eliminate Herbie Herbert, the one man that had the vision and drive to rebuild them.

It's all right there for everyone to see. The guy didn't want to be in Journey, toured alone, then wanted back in when they were forced to find a new vocalist, but then did the minimum amount of work and bailed ... again. You can try to spin the facts, but they're not gonna change.

[Don]

It was all about him fulfilling his Journey contract with Sony. Herbie saw through it but Perry's ex-bandmates couldn't, blinded by the potential dollars they might rack up in the deal.

[Saint John]

It was all about him fulfilling his Journey contract with Sony. Herbie saw through it but Perry's ex-bandmates couldn't, blinded by the potential dollars they might rack up in the deal.

Agreed. 80 million dollars will do that. And I'm pretty sure they also got an advance that they had to give back.

Perry's most genius move was the firing of Herbert. He knew that quitting under Herbert or Azoff would yield vastly different results. Herbert would immediately start rebuilding, and Azoff would shuffle Journey onto the back burner because he had a stable of acts and wouldn't be interested in rebuilding an almost 30 year old band.

[Don]

In the end game we can agree that Perry was an asshole but he was an intelligent asshole and his bandmates didn't have quite the killer mentality that he did when it came to looking out for #1.
I always wondered if Cain was sidelined during a lot of this by Schon as Jon certainly seemed to be the guy that could fight fire with fire when dealing with someone using such diabolical business scruples as those that Perry posessed.

[portland]

In the end game we can agree that Perry was an asshole but he was an intelligent asshole and his bandmates didn't have quite the killer mentality that he did when it came to looking out for #1.
I always wondered if Cain was sidelined during a lot of this by Schon as Jon certainly seemed to be the guy that could fight fire with fire when dealing with someone using such diabolical business scruples as those that Perry posessed.

So he was the smart asshole???.....well I guess it's better than the dumb asshole.