AL Cy Young

[Ehwmatt]

Maybe Pedro got robbed because he is a major league asshole and the media didn't like him. I could definitely see the media shunning that little fucker for that reason alone.

Best pitcher I've seen in MY lifetime....bar NONE.

Pedro was great, but he couldn't sniff Greg Maddux's asshole.

Maddux threw JUNK...Pedro was the best pitcher of our generation. Book It!

I don't give a fuck what he threw! He was dominating. His prime numbers are better than anyone's. Add to that 4 Cy Youngs, 18 Gold Gloves, 9 seasons with at least 18 wins, 18 seasons with at least 200 innings pitched, 109 complete games and 355 wins. Go to sleep now, son.

You just have no idea about baseball, Dan....stick to Manilow and Soto...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/395166-pedro-martinez-the-most-dominant-pitcher-of-our-lifetime

lol, Dan played college baseball. I think he is entitled to his own educated opinion. For my part, I don't know shit about baseball, so I can't speak on the subject.

[Saint John]

Yawn. The numbers just aren't there. Hurt too much. Gotta be a pro and take care of yourself.

[Rockindeano]

Maybe Pedro got robbed because he is a major league asshole and the media didn't like him. I could definitely see the media shunning that little fucker for that reason alone.

Best pitcher I've seen in MY lifetime....bar NONE.

Then you need to watch more baseball dude. He was real good for a year or two...then hurt, then traded, then hurt again. Go watch Roy Halladay and then get back to me.

[Rockindeano]

Pedro Martinez the era's best pitcher?

Let me ask you this.

He is a Hall of Famer? I doubt it.

[Saint John]

Maddux won at least 15 games for 17 years in a row and averaged over 200 innings while doing so.

[conversationpc]

Over the length of his entire career, Maddux is clearly the better pitcher. There was a period of about seven years where Pedro was easily the most dominant pitcher in the game but he didn't sustain it long enough.

[Rockindeano]

Maddux won at least 15 games for 17 years in a row and averaged over 200 innings while doing so.

No argument from me regarding Greg Maddux, but to be fair, he along with Smoltz and Glavine who shared equal success with Maddux, did enjoy tremendous run support from a very good Braves club. Again, not taking anything away, because they have the era and WHIP numbers to back them up, but I am just making a case for Felix. He too had awesome era, IP, and WHIP numbers despite the fact he had only 13 wins. If you think about it, he was lucky to get 13 wins. He very might have won only 9 or 10, and still had the impressive stats he did.

[conversationpc]

Maddux won at least 15 games for 17 years in a row and averaged over 200 innings while doing so.

No argument from me regarding Greg Maddux, bu tto be fair, he along with Smoltz and Glavine who shared equal success with Maddux, did enjoy tremendous run support from a very good Braves club. Again, not taking anything away, because they have the era and WHIP numbers to back them up, but I am just making a case for Felix. He too had awesome era, IP, and WHIP numbers despite the fact he had only 13 wins. If you think about it, he was lucky to get 13 wins. He very might have won only 9 or 10, and still had the impressive stats he did.

The Mariners this year had the most anemic offense I've ever seen. Pathetic. If he had played for the Red Sox, Yankees, or any other other top teams, he would've been easily over 20 wins and there wouldn't have even been a controversy.

[S2M]

I participated in a soapbox derby once....does that mean I can go and be the crew chief on Jimmy johnson's pit crew? Fuckwit.


look at his stats. He has Led the League in ERA and ERA+ 5 times. And finished close several other times. He is the only player to my knowledge other

than Greg Maddux to have 2 consecutive 200 ERA+ seasons, difference is Pedro did it twice. Pedro also has the lowest ERA+ of any starter pitcher in MLB

history. Pedro also was far better at Striking people out and preventing hits. He also led the league in WHIP 6 times. He is comparable

to Koufax during his peak. Pedro is also part of a very exclusive club of players to have 3000 Ks in under 1000 BBs and to have more Ks than IP while being

in the 3000 K club.

Also here are each of the players's opponent BA:

Pedro Martinez: .190
Randy Johnson: .200
Greg Maddux: .230
Roger Clemens: .210

and here's another one, dopes.....

http://www.seamheads.com/2010/07/21/just-how-good-is-pedro-martinez/

[S2M]

Maddux won at least 15 games for 17 years in a row and averaged over 200 innings while doing so.

Wins isn't a fucking pitching stat you cretin....especially based on who won the fucking Cy Young this year....Wins is a team stat! A pitcher could give up 18 freakin' runs, but as long as his team scores 19 - he gets the win.....DOPE.

[Saint John]

Maddux has more wins, strikeouts, 200 inning seasons, Cy Youngs, wins over any 5 year period, any 10 year period, 15 year period and 20 year period, twice as many shutouts and they each have 6 seasons with an e.r.a. under 2.50. Oh yeah, and he has 136 more wins. Off to bed now, junior.

[Rockindeano]

Maddux won at least 15 games for 17 years in a row and averaged over 200 innings while doing so.

Wins isn't a fucking pitching stat you cretin....especially based on who won the fucking Cy Young this year....Wins is a team stat! A pitcher could give up 18 freakin' runs, but as long as his team scores 19 - he gets the win.....DOPE.

Were you not just railing against Felix for his lack of wins? make up your mind dude! Like I said before, I don't think wins should be a criteria at all in a Cy Young award. I would have still voted for Felix if he had 10 wins. His numbers speak for themselves.

[Saint John]

Maddux has also started at least 34 games 15 times. Martinez 0.

[S2M]

Maddux has more wins, strikeouts, 200 inning seasons, Cy Youngs, wins over any 5 year period, any 10 year period, 15 year period and 20 year period, twice as many shutouts and they each have 6 seasons with an e.r.a. under 2.50. Oh yeah, and he has 136 more wins. Off to bed now, junior.

He also played more years....and in the JV league. It's a pretty sad commentary that Pedro qualifies for the HOF in just 2400 innings when it took Clemens, Johnson, and Maddux more than 1000 more innings to qualify for the Hall according to Bill Jame's CAWS system...

BTW, Pedro has the best lifetime ERA of any starting pitcher EVER to play in the majors...Oh, and WHIP too...

According to your logic - Emmitt Smith is a better running back because he has more rushing yards than Barry Sanders....again, fucking dope.

[Saint John]

He also played more years....and in the JV league. It's a pretty sad commentary that Pedro qualifies for the HOF in just 2400 innings when it took Clemens, Johnson, and Maddux more than 1000 more innings to qualify for the Hall according to Bill Jame's CAWS system...

BTW, Pedro has the best lifetime ERA of any starting pitcher EVER to play in the majors...Oh, and WHIP too...

According to your logic - Emmitt Smith is a better running back because he has more rushing yards than Barry Sanders....again, fucking dope.

Koufax had a better era (2.76) but only had 2,300 innings. He also retired after winning 27 games. Maddux laps Pedro in every major category. He did it better, did it better longer and the K's, wins, innings, Cy Youngs and 18 Gold Gloves to prove it. Pedro was better if we take a cherry-picked 5 best seasons. But Maddux was durable, never got hurt, made every start of every year and that counts for a lot. Like I said, any 10 year period sees Maddux as the winner. That's called a tell-tale period.

[S2M]

He also played more years....and in the JV league. It's a pretty sad commentary that Pedro qualifies for the HOF in just 2400 innings when it took Clemens, Johnson, and Maddux more than 1000 more innings to qualify for the Hall according to Bill Jame's CAWS system...

BTW, Pedro has the best lifetime ERA of any starting pitcher EVER to play in the majors...Oh, and WHIP too...

According to your logic - Emmitt Smith is a better running back because he has more rushing yards than Barry Sanders....again, fucking dope.

Koufax had a better era (2.76) but only had 2,300 innings. He also retired after winning 27 games. Maddux laps Pedro in every major category. He did it better, did it better longer and the K's, wins, innings, Cy Youngs and 18 Gold Gloves to prove it. Pedro was better if we take a cherry-picked 5 best seasons. But Maddux was durable, never got hurt, made every start of every year and that counts for a lot. Like I said, any 10 year period sees Maddux as the winner. That's called a tell-tale period.

I see you haven't read this article yet....please peruse it. You'll look like a dope.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/395166-pedro-martinez-the-most-dominant-pitcher-of-our-lifetime

BTW, i'm not impressed with 18 Gold Gloves....Strike some motherfuckers out - and you wouldn't have to worry about fielding your position....again - JV LEAGUE

[Saint John]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

[S2M]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

Ok, so is Sanders behind Smith?

[Rockindeano]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

NO fucking way Martinez is a first ballot hall of famer, no way.

[Saint John]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

Ok, so is Sanders behind Smith?

I don't think Smith was as good, but Sanders is just the ultimate fucking loser and quitter. The guy was the best pure running back alive, but he brought nothing to a team as far as passion, fire and leadership are concerned. In short, Sanders was a better running back, but I'd rather have Smith on my team. Winning is contagious and so is losing.

[conversationpc]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

NO fucking way Martinez is a first ballot hall of famer, no way.

I don't agree with S2M but, yes, he is.

[S2M]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

Ok, so is Sanders behind Smith?

I don't think Smith was as good, but Sanders is just the ultimate fucking loser and quitter. The guy was the best pure running back alive, but he brought nothing to a team as far as passion, fire and leadership are concerned. In short, Sanders was a better running back, but I'd rather have Smith on my team. Winning is contagious and so is losing.

You should have stopped there. You unwittingly proved my earlier point....thanks.

[S2M]

Next we'll be hearing that Favre and Ripken are the best ever at their positions because they played longer, and have 'iron man' streaks.....

[Saint John]

I did read it. I also played baseball my whole life, saw both pitchers live and have followed baseball since I was a kid. Pedro was awesome, he's going into the Hall (first ballot) and he put up incredible numbers. But missing starts, missing seasons and not doing it for long enough puts him behind Greg Maddux. Period.

Ok, so is Sanders behind Smith?

I don't think Smith was as good, but Sanders is just the ultimate fucking loser and quitter. The guy was the best pure running back alive, but he brought nothing to a team as far as passion, fire and leadership are concerned. In short, Sanders was a better running back, but I'd rather have Smith on my team. Winning is contagious and so is losing.

You should have stopped there. You unwittingly proved my earlier point....thanks.

I didn't prove your earlier point at all. Not even close. The numbers and the "10 year span" speak for themselves.

[S2M]

Mad Dog never had anywhere close to a 10-year anything....5, at BEST.....'91-'95. After '98 he never led the league in ANYTHING except games started, and BB/9....and for the third time - in the Junior Varsity League.

[Saint John]

Mad Dog never had anywhere close to a 10-year anything....5, at BEST.....'91-'95. After '98 he never led the league in ANYTHING except games started, and BB/9....and for the third time - in the Junior Varsity League.

Keep telling yourself that. And the National League plays baseball the way it was invented. I've long hoped that the DH would be eliminated. It's usually just an overweight one trick pony who can't play the field. Embarrassing, really.

[S2M]

Since 1920, Maddox has the 9th most Cheap Wins with 42....this is relevant, because Pedro doesn't even make the list, according to Bill James...


This stat does not speak to some magical ability to win when not at your best...this stat show the inadequacy of WINS as an individual stat. Number of WINS is a relevant stat for measuring teams. However, it is nonsensical to use WINS to measure pitchers. The reason so many great pitchers are included in a list like this is largely a by product of being good enough to pitch a lot of games and being good enough that their manager has a slower hook. The credit for cheap wins is rightly given to the offense that scored enough to overcome a poor performance by the starting pitcher.

Conversely, or Inversely....lol. There is a stat called 'Tough Losses' that measures losses in a quality start (6 innings, less than 3 ER)...Pedro has 45 Ltuf, and to be fair - Greg has 88 Ltuf....so you could minus Gregs 42 Cheap Wins, then add his 88 Tough Losses....Eh.