Don't Ask Don't Tell-Good Riddance To The Bigoted Law

[S2M]

FYI, I don't think the law was bigoted. Don't ask, don't tell. Seems pretty simple to me. Am I missing something?

[brywool]

FYI, I don't think the law was bigoted. Don't ask, don't tell. Seems pretty simple to me. Am I missing something?

the fact that we even had to HAVE a LAW about it is ridiculous. Jeez, grow up and don't be afraid of the boogy man. Are we THAT dumb? Apparently.
What a waste of time and money. Hey, how bout this: How about we create a law that if you rape a kid, you get the chair? PERIOD. Oh, no, we're too busy with this other crap to do anything about that.
How about we use the money we're spending on this to find missing kids? Oh no, this other thing is much more important....
I'm not saying the law was biggoted or not. The response about "Gee, what if I'm in a foxhole, I don't want some guy checking me out..." (and that's not Jim's original comment) it's been used by tons of anti-gay people. It was just Jim repeating it that I just couldn't believe. I cannot believe that people think like this. Really? You got another Army just outside of this foxhole that wants to KILL you, but you're going to worry about the guy next to you checking you out???? If that's what you're worried about, you got bigger problems...

I'm not anti-Jim necessarily, just comments like that just really rile me up I guess. Sorry Jim to single you out.

[comedyisnotpretty]

I submit the following video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

[BobbyinTN]

FYI, I don't think the law was bigoted. Don't ask, don't tell. Seems pretty simple to me. Am I missing something?

Suppression and discrimination are forms of bigotry. Telling someone to be quiet about who they are, especially someone putting their life on the line for their country is wrong and bigoted.

Glad it's history.

[RedWingFan]

I submit the following video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

Hahahaha! Hilarious!!!

[artist4perry]

I submit the following video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

[lights1961]

FYI, I don't think the law was bigoted. Don't ask, don't tell. Seems pretty simple to me. Am I missing something?

Suppression and discrimination are forms of bigotry. Telling someone to be quiet about who they are, especially someone putting their life on the line for their country is wrong and bigoted.

Glad it's history.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO TELL SOMEONE, its not like you are disabled or anything...

[conversationpc]

FYI, I don't think the law was bigoted. Don't ask, don't tell. Seems pretty simple to me. Am I missing something?

Suppression and discrimination are forms of bigotry. Telling someone to be quiet about who they are, especially someone putting their life on the line for their country is wrong and bigoted.

Glad it's history.

I agree that it was a dumb law. However, S2M has a bit of a point. Why on earth would anyone even WANT to bring up their sexuality when they apply for the military or ANY job, for that matter, gay OR straight?

Recruiter: How do you feel about killing people?
Soldier: Sounds like fun...By the way, I'm gay, too.

[conversationpc]

I submit the following video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

Hahahaha! Hilarious!!!

[Carlitto H@kk]

HISTORY IS MADE!!! The wicked old law is dead. Our President made America a little more equal this morning. Congratulations to all the military who will benefit from this new legislation. It's a done deal and nothing is gonna change it.

I think this is pretty cool and glad to see it finally happen.

However, like I said at the beginning of this long thread,
not all military folks think like me.
I can tell you as fact that, already in the past week
from right smack dab "in the trenches", I have heard
a lot of unhappy remarks in regards to this.
I think it will be worst within the Army & Marines
and it will be years before this new military outloook
calms down and becomes "normal".

On a funny side, one thing I have heard guys randomly joking
about (and being somewhat worried about) is how our
"Random Urine Sample" programs will be run...
NCO's are picked at random to be witnesses or, as
we like to joke, "meat-gazers" on a weekly basis while
guys come in to give samples... What's gonna happen when you
get that one witness that enjoys his job a bit too much?
Again, just some small, military humor.

But I hope it all works out.
Its no secret there are hundreds, if not thousands,
of gay men & women already serving our country...
Now it is nice to know they can finally, truly "be themselves"
and serve with pride.

[artist4perry]

I like my husbands approach. Humor is the best medicine. Sometimes we become so worked up over subjects we forget to laugh with each other, and sometimes at ourselves. I am less concerned over this matter than our 9/11 responders not getting care. Explain to me why this is more crucial to push through right now, when some of them are sick and in danger of their health and lives? It should be no question that their medical needs be met, they did what many would fear to do. They risked their lives for our own. Maybe that should be of a higher concern now?

[S2M]

I don't think DADT stopped gays from being themselves, or interfered with serving in the highest capacity. Hell, I loved playing Dungeons & Dragons, read LOTR twice a year...I don't remember my nerdiness getting in the way of serving...and nobody asked me either. I was also a virgin when I enlisted. Even that didn't affect my service. I think it's a bunch of BS. And although I have nothing against gays/lesbians. I think it is a shame that they want it in our faces. But of course they will respond with the lame retort that heterosexuality is in their faces....and it just goes round and round.

[BobbyinTN]

For those asking, "why do you have to tell" or any question similar to that, it's not about telling anything, it's about being able to write home or call a loved one and speak openly without having to keep something hidden.

People in the military are still people and they talk and share and brag about everything including their children, their wives or husbands or boyfriends or girlfriends, gay soldiers couldn't do that without fear of losing their job before this heinous law was repealed.

Here's what I find absurd about the whole thing, especially people that have a problem with it, soldiers are trained to take orders. If part of their life in the military is to accept homosexuals as equals and treat them equally they MUST do it, those are the rules and soldiers don't get to pick and choose the rules.

If they have a problem with following the rules, they can quit and if that problem turns into violence, they can get dishonorably discharged and lose all their benefits.

[BobbyinTN]

HISTORY IS MADE!!! The wicked old law is dead. Our President made America a little more equal this morning. Congratulations to all the military who will benefit from this new legislation. It's a done deal and nothing is gonna change it.

I think this is pretty cool and glad to see it finally happen.

However, like I said at the beginning of this long thread,
not all military folks think like me.
I can tell you as fact that, already in the past week
from right smack dab "in the trenches", I have heard
a lot of unhappy remarks in regards to this.
I think it will be worst within the Army & Marines
and it will be years before this new military outloook
calms down and becomes "normal".

On a funny side, one thing I have heard guys randomly joking
about (and being somewhat worried about) is how our
"Random Urine Sample" programs will be run...
NCO's are picked at random to be witnesses or, as
we like to joke, "meat-gazers" on a weekly basis while
guys come in to give samples... What's gonna happen when you
get that one witness that enjoys his job a bit too much?
Again, just some small, military humor.

But I hope it all works out.
Its no secret there are hundreds, if not thousands,
of gay men & women already serving our country...
Now it is nice to know they can finally, truly "be themselves"
and serve with pride.

I think people are people no matter what and some are resistant to change. I'm sure those people who are afraid of gays serving openly will realize it's not gonna change anything other than make homosexuals are little more happy about serving a country that sees them as equals.

Thank you for your service Carlitto. I've got a couple of friends about to be shipped back over, both are gay and they are certainly happier about the repeal. Both are excellent soldiers too.

[BobbyinTN]

I submit the following video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

They're not gay, they're British.

[artist4perry]

I submit the following video for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol5Dfs7jqFI

They're not gay, they're British.

And quite happy to be so.

[Don]

I like my husbands approach. Humor is the best medicine. Sometimes we become so worked up over subjects we forget to laugh with each other, and sometimes at ourselves. I am less concerned over this matter than our 9/11 responders not getting care. Explain to me why this is more crucial to push through right now, when some of them are sick and in danger of their health and lives? It should be no question that their medical needs be met, they did what many would fear to do. They risked their lives for our own. Maybe that should be of a higher concern now?

Because, if we push it back again, then it will keep getting pushed back. There are a lot of ex-military personel who have had their lives affected or at least knocked back a few steps because of the stigma of getting discharged under the old conditions. Imagine serving in Iraq or Afganistan, putting your life at risk in Bosnia or Somalia, to survive that only to be drummed out a few months later because of who you prefer to spend your life with.. They might not have rushed into a burning building like 911 responders but for some to allege that the ultimate sacrifice they were willing to do is worth less than others isn't right.
This is something that should have been handled years ago, when the rest of the first world militaries were already handling it. Now, that it's done (an item that should have never have been an issue in the first place), other things can addressed.

[artist4perry]

I like my husbands approach. Humor is the best medicine. Sometimes we become so worked up over subjects we forget to laugh with each other, and sometimes at ourselves. I am less concerned over this matter than our 9/11 responders not getting care. Explain to me why this is more crucial to push through right now, when some of them are sick and in danger of their health and lives? It should be no question that their medical needs be met, they did what many would fear to do. They risked their lives for our own. Maybe that should be of a higher concern now?

Because, if we push it back again, then it will keep getting pushed back. There are a lot of ex-military personel who have had their lives affected or at least knocked back a few steps because of the stigma of getting discharged under the old conditions. Imagine serving in Iraq or Afganistan, putting your life at risk in Bosnia or Somalia, to survive that only to be drummed out a few months later because of who you prefer to spend your life with.. They might not have rushed into a burning building like 911 responders but for some to allege that the ultimate sacrifice they were willing to do is worth less than others isn't right.
This is something that should have been handled years ago, when the rest of the first world militaries were already handling it. Now, that it's done (an item that should have never have been an issue in the first place), other things can addressed.

My main concern is why is the 9/11 being held up? Why is that being postponed now that this life threatening problem is solved? I am only saying that congress is ignoring our 9/11 folks, but had to do this right away. The gays are serving as we speak, have been for years. I just don't see letting people die first. Seems an odd priority. Maybe I am too selfish to want folks to get well, or live. This should not be put back on the burner as you say, but explain to me why congress, and one R idiot in particular, find it to be of no priority.

[Don]

My main concern is why is the 9/11 being held up? Why is that being postponed now that this life threatening problem is solved? I am only saying that congress is ignoring our 9/11 folks, but had to do this right away. The gays are serving as we speak, have been for years. I just don't see letting people die first. Seems an odd priority. Maybe I am too selfish to want folks to get well, or live. This should not be put back on the burner as you say, but explain to me why congress, and one R idiot in particular, find it to be of no priority.

Why wasn't the 911 issue dealt with before? This thing with the DADT was not all consuming, taking away from other legislation. It is just one of many things on the congressional plate, and using the gay legislation as a scapegoat for "letting people die first" really is a terrible thing to suggest.
If you had been on the site campaigning for the 911 responders over the last few months, I might be able to see where you are coming from but to bring it up now of all times seems very suspect .

[artist4perry]

My main concern is why is the 9/11 being held up? Why is that being postponed now that this life threatening problem is solved? I am only saying that congress is ignoring our 9/11 folks, but had to do this right away. The gays are serving as we speak, have been for years. I just don't see letting people die first. Seems an odd priority. Maybe I am too selfish to want folks to get well, or live. This should not be put back on the burner as you say, but explain to me why congress, and one R idiot in particular, find it to be of no priority.

Why wasn't the 911 issue dealt with before? This thing with the DADT was not all consuming, taking away from other legislation. It is just one of many things on the congressional plate, and using the gay legislation as a scapegoat for "letting people die first" really is a terrible thing to suggest.
If you had been on the site campaigning for the 911 responders over the last few months, I might be able to see where you are coming from but to bring it up now of all times seems very suspect .

Don, I could care less if this passed or not. They are serving as we speak, so if they want to tell, let them. My point was the fact that I have watched Republicans and Democrats both talk about pushing the 9/11 issue to the back burner. I just did not see why congress rushed to finish this, but could wait on the 9/11 folks.

As for campaigning for the 9/11 thing, honestly for the last few months I have been busy at work and was unaware of the legislation about their care. I just don't see why congress doesn't see the needs of these people as important or urgent enough to take the time to get it done. Who would see their plight as not urgent?

And as for my motives being suspect. I am very transparent here. I have never been anything but who I am. I am not one of the cyber phonies who play dumb games with folks. I think it takes a warped personality to use the guise of a keyboard to be something they are not. So I don't get the suspect thing. It seems your taking what I am saying way out to left field. If I caused any misunderstanding on the subject I apologize. I am probably way behind the loop on the news thing. I have not checked the political threads in a long time. Mostly because it is like watching a dead horse being throttled. No one ever agrees, and seldom does anyone change the mind of anyone else.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Here's what I find absurd about the whole thing, especially people that have a problem with it, soldiers are trained to take orders. If part of their life in the military is to accept homosexuals as equals and treat them equally they MUST do it, those are the rules and soldiers don't get to pick and choose the rules.

If they have a problem with following the rules, they can quit and if that problem turns into violence, they can get dishonorably discharged and lose all their benefits.

Bobby, you know I am an advocate of this decision but
this line of thought just doesn't work.

You're right, military service members are trained to follow rules and orders
from their appointed leaders. However, aside from respecting your superiors and peers,
and doing what you are told, there is absolutle NOTHING in the regulations that say you
also have to be freindly, personable, and kind to your fellow military members.

Friendships, personal relationships, trust, and acceptance are the glues that
hold our military services together, especially when deployed down-range.
Even though this is now a law that all military members will be required to abide by,
there will still be many that will not offer that friendship, acceptance, personal relationship, or trust
to people openly serving.

Its really a shame but, trust me, thats just the way its going to be
for a long time.

[artist4perry]

Here's what I find absurd about the whole thing, especially people that have a problem with it, soldiers are trained to take orders. If part of their life in the military is to accept homosexuals as equals and treat them equally they MUST do it, those are the rules and soldiers don't get to pick and choose the rules.

If they have a problem with following the rules, they can quit and if that problem turns into violence, they can get dishonorably discharged and lose all their benefits.

Bobby, you know I am an advocate of this decision but
this line of thought just doesn't work.

You're right, military service members are trained to follow rules and orders
from their appointed leaders. However, aside from respecting your superiors and peers,
and doing what you are told, there is absolutle NOTHING in the regulations that say you
also have to be freindly, personable, and kind to your fellow military members.

Friendships, personal relationships, trust, and acceptance are the glues that
hold our military services together, especially when deployed down-range.
Even though this is now a law that all military members will be required to abide by,
there will still be many that will not offer that friendship, acceptance, personal relationship, or trust
to people openly serving.

Its really a shame but, trust me, thats just the way its going to be
for a long time.

I was a military wife for 10 years. Not the same as serving I know. But I heard the talk after hours. I think your hitting the nail on the head. It is one thing to do your job side by side. But I notice on even this board an underlying hostility to openly gay members sometimes. Do you think a bunch of macho guys are any different in the service? Yes, if they hurt someone because they are gay they should be dishonorably discharged, no question. But I am afraid more gays are going to see some hostility, if not physical, possibly more insidious in nature. I hope that is not true. No one should be harmed because they are gay. Emotionally or otherwise.

[conversationpc]

Bobby, you know I am an advocate of this decision but
this line of thought just doesn't work.

You're right, military service members are trained to follow rules and orders
from their appointed leaders. However, aside from respecting your superiors and peers,
and doing what you are told, there is absolutle NOTHING in the regulations that say you
also have to be freindly, personable, and kind to your fellow military members.

Friendships, personal relationships, trust, and acceptance are the glues that
hold our military services together, especially when deployed down-range.
Even though this is now a law that all military members will be required to abide by,
there will still be many that will not offer that friendship, acceptance, personal relationship, or trust
to people openly serving.

Its really a shame but, trust me, thats just the way its going to be
for a long time.

And this also applies to guys/gals who are openly religious in any way and probably various other situations as well.

[Michigan Girl]

Here's what I find absurd about the whole thing, especially people that have a problem with it, soldiers are trained to take orders. If part of their life in the military is to accept homosexuals as equals and treat them equally they MUST do it, those are the rules and soldiers don't get to pick and choose the rules.

If they have a problem with following the rules, they can quit and if that problem turns into violence, they can get dishonorably discharged and lose all their benefits.

Bobby, you know I am an advocate of this decision but
this line of thought just doesn't work.

You're right, military service members are trained to follow rules and orders
from their appointed leaders. However, aside from respecting your superiors and peers,
and doing what you are told, there is absolutle NOTHING in the regulations that say you
also have to be freindly, personable, and kind to your fellow military members.

Friendships, personal relationships, trust, and acceptance are the glues that
hold our military services together, especially when deployed down-range.
Even though this is now a law that all military members will be required to abide by,
there will still be many that will not offer that friendship, acceptance, personal relationship, or trust
to people openly serving.

Its really a shame but, trust me, thats just the way its going to be
for a long time.

I was a military wife for 10 years. Not the same as serving I know. But I heard the talk after hours. I think your hitting the nail on the head. It is one thing to do your job side by side. But I notice on even this board an underlying hostility to openly gay members sometimes. Do you think a bunch of macho guys are any different in the service? Yes, if they hurt someone because they are gay they should be dishonorably discharged, no question. But I am afraid more gays are going to see some hostility, if not physical, possibly more insidious in nature. I hope that is not true. No one should be harmed because they are gay. Emotionally or otherwise.

I believe he is referring to the damage that could incur during
a wartime situation due to lack of bonding and trust prior to ...not only for gay soldiers, but non~gay as well!!
Similar to the bond and trust police officers/partners must have for one another!!

Good Post Carlitto!!

[artist4perry]

Here's what I find absurd about the whole thing, especially people that have a problem with it, soldiers are trained to take orders. If part of their life in the military is to accept homosexuals as equals and treat them equally they MUST do it, those are the rules and soldiers don't get to pick and choose the rules.

If they have a problem with following the rules, they can quit and if that problem turns into violence, they can get dishonorably discharged and lose all their benefits.

Bobby, you know I am an advocate of this decision but
this line of thought just doesn't work.

You're right, military service members are trained to follow rules and orders
from their appointed leaders. However, aside from respecting your superiors and peers,
and doing what you are told, there is absolutle NOTHING in the regulations that say you
also have to be freindly, personable, and kind to your fellow military members.

Friendships, personal relationships, trust, and acceptance are the glues that
hold our military services together, especially when deployed down-range.
Even though this is now a law that all military members will be required to abide by,
there will still be many that will not offer that friendship, acceptance, personal relationship, or trust
to people openly serving.

Its really a shame but, trust me, thats just the way its going to be
for a long time.

I was a military wife for 10 years. Not the same as serving I know. But I heard the talk after hours. I think your hitting the nail on the head. It is one thing to do your job side by side. But I notice on even this board an underlying hostility to openly gay members sometimes. Do you think a bunch of macho guys are any different in the service? Yes, if they hurt someone because they are gay they should be dishonorably discharged, no question. But I am afraid more gays are going to see some hostility, if not physical, possibly more insidious in nature. I hope that is not true. No one should be harmed because they are gay. Emotionally or otherwise.

I believe he is referring to the damage that could incur during
a wartime situation due to lack of bonding and trust prior to ...not only for gay soldiers, but non~gay as well!!
Similar to the bond and trust police officers/partners must have for one another!!

Good Post Carlitto!!

I agree, I got that. But I have heard military guys talk about what they would do if a gay guy even so much as looked at them. I am just agreeing with him. But that would go for any job I think. But definitely in a trust issue like war. You cannot make anyone like anyone else just because you tell them too. Military or not. And yes, goes for straight and gay. But I knew guys who would definitely do underhanded stuff to someone because they don't like their lifestyle.

[Don]

It will come to pass. I have been fortunate to have served great tours while in the service. My permanent assignments along with special duties include Clark RP, Yokota & Kadena Japan, Alconbury UK, Stavanger Norway and installations in over two dozen other countries.
I have faith that unlike desegregation, this will be accepted a lot quicker as many upper brass have been tolerating the situation under the radar for years. The hardest part will be at bases in the states, especially in the Bible Belt as instigators in outside comunities will still try to have some sway in trying to propogate the idea that this is such a terrible decision but after a time, even that will fall on deaf ears as the military continues to educate it's troops on the power of diversity in the service.

[artist4perry]

It will come to pass. I have been fortunate to have served great tours while in the service. My permanent assignments along with special duties include Clark RP, Yokota & Kadena Japan, Alconbury UK, Stavanger Norway and installations in over two dozen other countries.
I have faith that unlike desegregation, this will be accepted a lot quicker as many upper brass have been tolerating the situation under the radar for years. The hardest part will be at bases in the states, especially in the Bible Belt as instigators in outside comunties will still try to have some sway in trying to propogate the idea that this is such a terrible decision but after a time, even that will fall on deaf ears as the military continues to educate it's troops on the power of diversity in the service.

So let me get this straight...........people up north and west and east are just thrilled to pieces over this and only the "bible belted" folks.......mainly the south, just want to lynch anyone different than them? So neo natzies don't exist north of the mason dixon line or out west? I was just wondering how that skinhead who tried to hurt me for my views when I lived in Vegas, or the Illinois Natzies got so lost going up north the way they did? Prejudice has no residence, it is a state of mind.

[Don]

It will come to pass. I have been fortunate to have served great tours while in the service. My permanent assignments along with special duties include Clark RP, Yokota & Kadena Japan, Alconbury UK, Stavanger Norway and installations in over two dozen other countries.
I have faith that unlike desegregation, this will be accepted a lot quicker as many upper brass have been tolerating the situation under the radar for years. The hardest part will be at bases in the states, especially in the Bible Belt as instigators in outside comunties will still try to have some sway in trying to propogate the idea that this is such a terrible decision but after a time, even that will fall on deaf ears as the military continues to educate it's troops on the power of diversity in the service.

So let me get this straight...........people up north and west and east are just thrilled to pieces over this and only the "bible belted" folks.......mainly the south, just want to lynch anyone different than them? So neo natzies don't exist north of the mason dixon line or out west? I was just wondering how that skinhead who tried to hurt me for my views when I lived in Vegas, or the Illinois Natzies got so lost going up north the way they did? Prejudice has no residence, it is a state of mind.

The only place we ever had issues when going out on the town with black team members was in Alabama, Oklahoma and Arkansas. This was in the late 80s and early 90s.
We never had problems in Idaho, Utah or any other states where we have been taught that there is a large groups or elements of racism or bigotry.

Of course it exists everywhere but I can only speak of what I have experienced personally. As in most cases in my travels, I have found that where there is smoke there is fire.

[Carlitto H@kk]

I was a military wife for 10 years. Not the same as serving I know. But I heard the talk after hours. I think your hitting the nail on the head. It is one thing to do your job side by side. But I notice on even this board an underlying hostility to openly gay members sometimes. Do you think a bunch of macho guys are any different in the service? Yes, if they hurt someone because they are gay they should be dishonorably discharged, no question. But I am afraid more gays are going to see some hostility, if not physical, possibly more insidious in nature. I hope that is not true. No one should be harmed because they are gay. Emotionally or otherwise.

I believe he is referring to the damage that could incur during
a wartime situation due to lack of bonding and trust prior to ...not only for gay soldiers, but non~gay as well!!
Similar to the bond and trust police officers/partners must have for one another!!

Good Post Carlitto!!

No, I meant in times of War AND Peace. Its simple. Imagine going to work everyday
and feeling that most of your coworkers are just tolerating you because they have to,
not because they want to.
There is a BIG difference between Tolerance and Total Acceptance.

[artist4perry]

It will come to pass. I have been fortunate to have served great tours while in the service. My permanent assignments along with special duties include Clark RP, Yokota & Kadena Japan, Alconbury UK, Stavanger Norway and installations in over two dozen other countries.
I have faith that unlike desegregation, this will be accepted a lot quicker as many upper brass have been tolerating the situation under the radar for years. The hardest part will be at bases in the states, especially in the Bible Belt as instigators in outside comunties will still try to have some sway in trying to propogate the idea that this is such a terrible decision but after a time, even that will fall on deaf ears as the military continues to educate it's troops on the power of diversity in the service.

So let me get this straight...........people up north and west and east are just thrilled to pieces over this and only the "bible belted" folks.......mainly the south, just want to lynch anyone different than them? So neo natzies don't exist north of the mason dixon line or out west? I was just wondering how that skinhead who tried to hurt me for my views when I lived in Vegas, or the Illinois Natzies got so lost going up north the way they did? Prejudice has no residence, it is a state of mind.

The only place we ever had issues when going out on the town with black team members was in Alabama, Oklahoma and Arkansas. This was in the late 80s and early 90s.
We never had problems in Idaho, Utah or any other states where we have been taught that there is a large groups or elements of racism or bigotry.

Of course it exists everywhere but I can only speak of what I have experienced personally. As in most cases in my travels, I have found that where there is smoke there is fire.

I am from Arkansas, I am sure most people here know. Yes there are prejudiced rednecks here. (Mostly uneducated fools) But I have seen problems elsewhere when I lived in Colorado, California, Nevada, Illinois, Indiana, and Mo. I am not saying we don't have our problems here with that element, but I get tired of having my home stereotyped by a few morons. Not everyone wishes harm or cruelty to people for being different. Not even in such a "lowly place" as this. By the way, I just saved up for a pair of shoes, now that pa slaughtered a pig an all. I wus the smartest one in my graduatin' thard grade class. Ma wuz sure fired proud o' me. Do you get where that whole thing gets to be irritating? Anyone south is stupid, inbred, prejudiced, and barefoot. You can't trust a lot like us. Only northern or western people are sophisticated, well educated, and well bred. My eye. I have seen all kinds of people everywhere I have lived. Don, I am sure your a nice guy, but that kind of blanket statement is prejudiced in itself. Can you see what I am saying?