ESPN's 30 for 30

[RedWingFan]

Anybody watch these? I just started DVRing them a couple of months ago. Some of them are pretty damn good.

My favorites so far,

The Best That Never Was- about Marcus Dupree
Without Bias- about the death of Len Bias
The Two Escobars- about drug money building Colombian soccer
The Pony Excess- about SMU buying players in the early 80's


There are alot more that were really good. Highly recommend these for sports fans.

[S2M]

I's like to see one on The Greatest RB ever - Barry Sanders. And why he retired in his prime.

[RedWingFan]

I's like to see one on The Greatest RB ever - Barry Sanders. And why he retired in his prime.

Me too. Unfortunately the Michigan themed show is going to be about the Wolverines Fab Five.

[S2M]

WOW....who wants to see Chris Webber call a non-existent TO, or a non-call travel....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH1ujxNwrkA

or this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vblnEqxvE7Y&feature=related

[rsimpson]

The only one I've seen is the SMU one. It was good.

[SF-Dano]

Enjoyed the "Once Brothers" episode. But that is because I was a Divac fan. Saw the "Pony Express" one too, which was real good.

[Saint John]

I's like to see one on The Greatest RB ever - Barry Sanders.

Jim Brown was definitely better and so were a few others.

And why he retired in his prime.

He was a fucking loser, plain and simple. No heart, no desire, indifferent about losing, emotionless and a quitter. The kind of guy that will get you awesome fantasy stats but keep your professional team mired around .500. No one even cares where he's at anymore and no one talks about him. His place in history is defined by a few highlight reel plays, but that's vastly overshadowed by the fact that he never won, never cared about winning, never made teammates better, never showed on field emotion and quit early. Any sort of competitor would have chased a ring. But that's what losers do. They quit.

[S2M]

I's like to see one on The Greatest RB ever - Barry Sanders.

Jim Brown was definitely better and so were a few others.

And why he retired in his prime.

He was a fucking loser, plain and simple. No heart, no desire, indifferent about losing, emotionless and a quitter. The kind of guy that will get you awesome fantasy stats but keep your professional team mired around .500. No one even cares where he's at anymore and no one talks about him. His place in history is defined by a few highlight reel plays, but that's vastly overshadowed by the fact that he never won, never cared about winning, never made teammates better, never showed on field emotion and quit early. Any sort of competitor would have chased a ring. But that's what losers do. They quit.

You are out of your mind, Dan. Barry never had an O-Line. He got every yard by himself. And what did you want him to do, refuse to play for the shitty team that drafted him...a la Elway and Manning? He never requested a trade. And they never surrounded him with any talent. Hell, would you have won anything with these QBS?


Frank Reich, Scott Mitchell, Don Majkowski, Dave Krieg, Rodney Peete, Andre Ware, Erik Kramer, BOB GAGLIANO, and Eric Hipple

[Enigma869]

Jim Brown was definitely better and so were a few others.


He was a fucking loser, plain and simple. No heart, no desire, indifferent about losing, emotionless and a quitter. The kind of guy that will get you awesome fantasy stats but keep your professional team mired around .500. No one even cares where he's at anymore and no one talks about him. His place in history is defined by a few highlight reel plays, but that's vastly overshadowed by the fact that he never won, never cared about winning, never made teammates better, never showed on field emotion and quit early. Any sort of competitor would have chased a ring. But that's what losers do. They quit.

Dude...you couldn't be more out of line with this post. Brown and Sanders are actually tough guys to compare, because they were completely different styles and built very differently. Sanders was a finesse guy and Brown was ENORMOUS for a back in his day. Hell, Brown played running back at 6'2" and 235lbs, and that was back in the 50's and 60's when most linebackers were barely that big. Honestly, the only thing they really have in common is that they both have career averages of at least 5 yards per carry. Sanders played on some AWFUL teams and while a lot of people say he left too soon, the guy did play 10 years. Considering that the average NFL running back plays about 2 seasons, I would say Sanders didn't come close to "quitting". Like the guy or not, he is absolutely one of the greatest NFL running backs, EVER. I'd take Sanders over Emmitt Smith 1000 out of 1000 times, even with Emmitt's rings. Sanders was simply the more talented guy!

[Enigma869]

Without Bias- about the death of Len Bias

Ah yes, Len Bias. What could have been. A lot of people forget that the Celtics were actually coming off yet another championship when they got Bias in the draft lottery. Dude was a freakishly good player at Maryland and was destined to be a great NBA player. Those Celtics would have won a whole lot more championships had Bias been added to Bird, McHale, and Parish.

[S2M]

I's like to see one on The Greatest RB ever - Barry Sanders.

Jim Brown was definitely better and so were a few others.

And why he retired in his prime.

He was a fucking loser, plain and simple. No heart, no desire, indifferent about losing, emotionless and a quitter. The kind of guy that will get you awesome fantasy stats but keep your professional team mired around .500. No one even cares where he's at anymore and no one talks about him. His place in history is defined by a few highlight reel plays, but that's vastly overshadowed by the fact that he never won, never cared about winning, never made teammates better, never showed on field emotion and quit early. Any sort of competitor would have chased a ring. But that's what losers do. They quit.

You want to talk about players that get all the glory who never did squat for their teams? Try 1956 Heisman Trophy winner Paul Hornung. Notre Dame was 2-8 that season.....

[conversationpc]

Jim Brown was definitely better and so were a few others.


He was a fucking loser, plain and simple. No heart, no desire, indifferent about losing, emotionless and a quitter. The kind of guy that will get you awesome fantasy stats but keep your professional team mired around .500. No one even cares where he's at anymore and no one talks about him. His place in history is defined by a few highlight reel plays, but that's vastly overshadowed by the fact that he never won, never cared about winning, never made teammates better, never showed on field emotion and quit early. Any sort of competitor would have chased a ring. But that's what losers do. They quit.

Dude...you couldn't be more out of line with this post. Brown and Sanders are actually tough guys to compare, because they were completely different styles and built very differently. Sanders was a finesse guy and Brown was ENORMOUS for a back in his day. Hell, Brown played running back at 6'2" and 235lbs, and that was back in the 50's and 60's when most linebackers were barely that big. Honestly, the only thing they really have in common is that they both have career averages of at least 5 yards per carry. Sanders played on some AWFUL teams and while a lot of people say he left too soon, the guy did play 10 years. Considering that the average NFL running back plays about 2 seasons, I would say Sanders didn't come close to "quitting". Like the guy or not, he is absolutely one of the greatest NFL running backs, EVER. I'd take Sanders over Emmitt Smith 1000 out of 1000 times, even with Emmitt's rings. Sanders was simply the more talented guy!

I agree with Dan a lot but I have to shake my head on this one. If Sanders ever ran behind even a mediocre offensive line, he would completely shattered nearly all career and probably season rushing records. Dude was that good. As for "quitting" early, perhaps, unlike most running backs that have a long career in the NFL, he wanted to be able to walk comfortably later in life without worrying about having knee replacements and other long-lasting effects from the battering most running backs take.

The only thing I have against Sanders was his hypocrisy in regards to abstinence. He campaigned for it as a single guy and then it turned out he had been plugging chicks behind the scenes.

[Enigma869]

If Sanders ever ran behind even a mediocre offensive line, he would completely shattered nearly all career and probably season rushing records. Dude was that good.

Exactly. Emmitt ran behind the best offensive line ever assembled in the history of football, and still couldn't get close to averaging even 4.5 yards a carry over his career. Sanders averaged 5 through his career and many times was forced to run 10 yards backwards because he simply never had any blocking. Absolute immense talent and anyone who says otherwise is fucking clueless! Listen, I get not liking a player, but a guy who is great is great, whether you like him or not. I can't stand Peyton Manning and you'd never hear me say that he isn't a great player!

[YoungJRNY]

Barry Sanders was actually one of my favorite players in the league at one point. I know JFB will hate this comment, but when I watched Sanders at a young age while I could, it seemed like he had that "Favre" effect and that magic simply happened every time he touched the football. You just never knew what he was going to do with the ball and I always had that same feel when Favre was playing on Sunday's in both of their prime's. Luckily for Barry, he went out on the top of his game and avoided something that was inevitable for Favre. Barry Sanders is like the Steve Perry of "retirements." He went out at such a time to where he had so much left but went out as THEE best in the game and the best we would possibly ever seen, talent wise. Barry was special and Smith doesn't even come close to the athletic ability that Sanders put forth in his body of work.

[conversationpc]

If Sanders ever ran behind even a mediocre offensive line, he would completely shattered nearly all career and probably season rushing records. Dude was that good.

Exactly. Emmitt ran behind the best offensive line ever assembled in the history of football, and still couldn't get close to averaging even 4.5 yards a carry over his career. Sanders averaged 5 through his career and many times was forced to run 10 yards backwards because he simply never had any blocking. Absolute immense talent and anyone who says otherwise is fucking clueless! Listen, I get not liking a player, but a guy who is great is great, whether you like him or not. I can't stand Peyton Manning and you'd never hear me say that he isn't a great player!

I'm an Emmitt Smith fan so I don't dislike him but Sanders is the top guy.

[Enigma869]

I know JFB will hate this comment, but when I watched Sanders at a young age while I could, it seemed like he had that "Favre" effect

You're right...I'm not a fan, AT ALL, of Sanders and Favre being mentioned in the same sentence. Dan's point that Sanders didn't help his teams is just flat out dopey. Sanders teams didn't win because he was one of the few guys on those teams who had any talent. It wasn't like he gave games away. Here is perspective for you. Barry Sanders over the course of his entire playing career accounted for 41 turnovers (a very low number). Favre, on the other hand, accounted for a fucking STAGGERING 502 turnovers, which is fucking ATROCIOUS! Favre is a media creation, pure and simple!

[conversationpc]

Barry Sanders over the course of his entire playing career accounted for 41 turnovers (a very low number). Favre, on the other hand, accounted for a fucking STAGGERING 502 turnovers, which is fucking ATROCIOUS!

I'm not a Favre fan but it's hardly fair to compare turnovers between the two positions those guys play. The likelihood of a turnover for almost any QB in the league is far higher than it is for a running back, especially considering they handle the ball one every play.

[Enigma869]

I'm not a Favre fan but it's hardly fair to compare turnovers between the two positions those guys play. The likelihood of a turnover for almost any QB in the league is far higher than it is for a running back, especially considering they handle the ball one every play.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter. Even if you compare the turnovers between Favre and other guys who actually play QB, it's not even close! Even if you simply throw out the ridiculous amount of interceptions that Favre threw, he fumbled the ball a whopping 166 times in his career! That's simply ridiculous!

[conversationpc]

I'm not a Favre fan but it's hardly fair to compare turnovers between the two positions those guys play. The likelihood of a turnover for almost any QB in the league is far higher than it is for a running back, especially considering they handle the ball one every play.

Honestly, it doesn't even matter. Even if you compare the turnovers between Favre and other guys who actually play QB, it's not even close! Even if you simply throw out the ridiculous amount of interceptions that Favre threw, he fumbled the ball a whopping 166 times in his career! That's simply ridiculous!

His 3.3% career INT % isn't really all that bad. Considering how long he's played, I'm not sure the 166 fumbles are all that bad. I wonder what his % of fumbling the ball compared to numbers of times handled it would be compare to other QBs?

[Enigma869]

His 3.3% career INT % isn't really all that bad. Considering how long he's played, I'm not sure the 166 fumbles are all that bad. I wonder what his % of fumbling the ball compared to numbers of times handled it would be compare to other QBs?

I'll let the math geeks figure that out. I know this...there isn't ANY QB even remotely close to Favre on the turnover list, so regardless of how low it looks when expressed at a percentage, I'm confident that even his percentage is higher than almost anyone who has ever played. And while I definitely do look at statistics, I don't need any statistics to tell me that Favre puked on his shoes WAY too much when games mattered the most. My two eyeballs told me that the guy was a complete fraud and not half has good as the image that the media (mainly ESPN) created.

[S2M]

Concerning Favre's Sister:

"Authorities knew it was Favre's sister right away. When asked for the drug paraphernalia she was holding, she turned it over...."

[Saint John]

Here's a cool article about the quitter:

Barry Sanders -- Overrated

Barry Sanders, who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 (his first year of eligibility), scored one touchdown for every 35 touches in his 153 regular-season games, but just one touchdown in 112 postseason touches in six playoff games.

Indeed, Sanders' only career playoff touchdown was a 47-yard run against the Dallas Cowboys in a 1991 divisional-round playoff game in the Pontiac Silverdome. The Lions won that game 38-6. Sanders' touchdown came in the final minutes of the fourth quarter with Detroit already leading 31-6. The following week, the Lions went on the road to play the Washington Redskins at RFK Stadium. Sanders was not a factor. Detroit took a 41-10 beating.

Sanders wasn't the same player away from home.
Sanders' postseason performance supports the notion that he was a product of the cozy, climate-controlled Silverdome. Nice carpet for easy, stop-on-a-dime maneuvering. Seventy-two degrees. Detroit faithful keeping the defensive line off balance with high decibel support.

In four career outdoor postseason games, Sanders averaged a paltry 2.8 yards per carry. He never scored a touchdown. And he never ran for more than 65 yards in a single game. With Sanders, the Lions went 0-4 in outdoor playoff games, losing by an average of 17 points.

Nobody is suggesting that a bust of Barry should not be in Canton. He's the third-leading rusher of all time with 15,269 yards. He holds the all-time NFL record for consecutive 1,000 seasons with 10, from 1989 to 1998. Sanders was the first player to rush for 1,500 yards in a season five times. He was selected to 10 Pro Bowls. In 1997, when he rushed for 2,053 yards, he was NFL co-MVP, an honor he should have not had to share with Brett Favre that season. In 1988, Sanders won the Heisman Trophy at Oklahoma State.

But this picture of perfection has a nasty blemish. Once Sanders got to the big stage, and got out of the Silverdome, he was a bust.

Take the wild-card playoff game at Lambeau Field in 1994. That season, Sanders averaged 5.7 yards per carry -- the second-highest total of his career. In the first round of the playoffs against the Green Bay Packers, on Lambeau Field's frozen tundra, Sanders set an NFL postseason record for rushing futility. He had 13 carries for minus-one yard. He had four catches that day -- for four yards. Which means he had 16 touches for a total of three yards -- 2.7 yards less than he averaged per rush in the regular season.

Now, the spirited defense of putting him in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot always includes the theory that Sanders was the only thing the Lions had going for them in The Barry Sanders Era. That's exactly what it is -- a theory, and a bad one at that.

Did we forget about wide receivers Herman Moore and Brett Perriman? The Lions stretched the field for Sanders -- especially in the Dome. This helped him be wildly successful -- in the regular season. And in the years when the Lions went to the playoffs, their defense was not awful. It was middle of the pack -- ranked 11th in 1991, 15th in 1993, 19th in 1994, 14th in 1995 and 10th in 1997.

There is another ugly scar on Sanders' career: His Greta Garbo act on the way out the door.

After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

Here was a man who benefited greatly from the support of his teammates, his organization and his fans -- and he just turned his back on them without a word of gratitude. He left his teammates and a franchise in the lurch, to the point that the Lions demanded he return $7.3 million of his signing bonus.

Years later, when it was time for him to become eligible for Canton, Sanders had to be coaxed into providing some kind of explanation for his untimely retirement.

It was too little, too late.

Postscript: Of the five leading rushers in NFL history, Sanders is the only one to never reach a Super Bowl. The others -- Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis -- all reached at least one Super Bowl. And all but Martin won at least one NFL championship ring.

[Enigma869]

His 3.3% career INT % isn't really all that bad. Considering how long he's played, I'm not sure the 166 fumbles are all that bad. I wonder what his % of fumbling the ball compared to numbers of times handled it would be compare to other QBs?

By the way, I looked it up and there are probably more than 100 NFL QB's who have a lower career Int% than Favre. Favre's 3.3% ties him with the immortals like Stan Humphries, Tony Eason (who John Hannah said should wear a skirt), Patrick Ramsey, Steve Dils, Roman Gabriel, Elvis Grbac, Daunte Culpepper, and Joey Harrington. There is a list you want to be keeping company with!

[Enigma869]

Here's a cool article about the quitter:

Barry Sanders -- Overrated

Barry Sanders, who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2004 (his first year of eligibility), scored one touchdown for every 35 touches in his 153 regular-season games, but just one touchdown in 112 postseason touches in six playoff games.

Indeed, Sanders' only career playoff touchdown was a 47-yard run against the Dallas Cowboys in a 1991 divisional-round playoff game in the Pontiac Silverdome. The Lions won that game 38-6. Sanders' touchdown came in the final minutes of the fourth quarter with Detroit already leading 31-6. The following week, the Lions went on the road to play the Washington Redskins at RFK Stadium. Sanders was not a factor. Detroit took a 41-10 beating.

Sanders wasn't the same player away from home.
Sanders' postseason performance supports the notion that he was a product of the cozy, climate-controlled Silverdome. Nice carpet for easy, stop-on-a-dime maneuvering. Seventy-two degrees. Detroit faithful keeping the defensive line off balance with high decibel support.

In four career outdoor postseason games, Sanders averaged a paltry 2.8 yards per carry. He never scored a touchdown. And he never ran for more than 65 yards in a single game. With Sanders, the Lions went 0-4 in outdoor playoff games, losing by an average of 17 points.

Nobody is suggesting that a bust of Barry should not be in Canton. He's the third-leading rusher of all time with 15,269 yards. He holds the all-time NFL record for consecutive 1,000 seasons with 10, from 1989 to 1998. Sanders was the first player to rush for 1,500 yards in a season five times. He was selected to 10 Pro Bowls. In 1997, when he rushed for 2,053 yards, he was NFL co-MVP, an honor he should have not had to share with Brett Favre that season. In 1988, Sanders won the Heisman Trophy at Oklahoma State.

But this picture of perfection has a nasty blemish. Once Sanders got to the big stage, and got out of the Silverdome, he was a bust.

Take the wild-card playoff game at Lambeau Field in 1994. That season, Sanders averaged 5.7 yards per carry -- the second-highest total of his career. In the first round of the playoffs against the Green Bay Packers, on Lambeau Field's frozen tundra, Sanders set an NFL postseason record for rushing futility. He had 13 carries for minus-one yard. He had four catches that day -- for four yards. Which means he had 16 touches for a total of three yards -- 2.7 yards less than he averaged per rush in the regular season.

Now, the spirited defense of putting him in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot always includes the theory that Sanders was the only thing the Lions had going for them in The Barry Sanders Era. That's exactly what it is -- a theory, and a bad one at that.

Did we forget about wide receivers Herman Moore and Brett Perriman? The Lions stretched the field for Sanders -- especially in the Dome. This helped him be wildly successful -- in the regular season. And in the years when the Lions went to the playoffs, their defense was not awful. It was middle of the pack -- ranked 11th in 1991, 15th in 1993, 19th in 1994, 14th in 1995 and 10th in 1997.

There is another ugly scar on Sanders' career: His Greta Garbo act on the way out the door.

After rushing for 1,491 yards in 1998, Sanders abruptly and mysteriously retired. At the time, he was 1,457 yards shy of Walter Payton's all-time rushing record. His defenders say Sanders -- who played the game with dignity and class -- did not owe anybody anything. As long as he was at peace with the decision, that was enough. That's bunk.

Here was a man who benefited greatly from the support of his teammates, his organization and his fans -- and he just turned his back on them without a word of gratitude. He left his teammates and a franchise in the lurch, to the point that the Lions demanded he return $7.3 million of his signing bonus.

Years later, when it was time for him to become eligible for Canton, Sanders had to be coaxed into providing some kind of explanation for his untimely retirement.

It was too little, too late.

Postscript: Of the five leading rushers in NFL history, Sanders is the only one to never reach a Super Bowl. The others -- Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis -- all reached at least one Super Bowl. And all but Martin won at least one NFL championship ring.

Obviously written by someone with an agenda and someone who doesn't like Sanders. You can find 100 different articles disparaging Sanders and it won't change the great player that he was. Like I said, hate the guy all you want, but saying the guy sucks makes you look like a complete jackass whose football knowledge wouldn't fill a fucking thimble!

[Saint John]

Obviously written by someone with an agenda and someone who doesn't like Sanders. You can find 100 different articles disparaging Sanders and it won't change the great player that he was. Like I said, hate the guy all you want, but saying the guy sucks makes you look like a complete jackass whose football knowledge wouldn't fill a fucking thimble!

Great rebuttal. Yeah, the stats show how good he was in the clutch (playoffs) and you simply can't refute them. It's also worth noting that he tried to keep his signing bonus after he walked out on his team and didn't even have the courtesy to tell them to make plans without him. He's a piece of shit and a loser. It's also interesting how, when he left them without explanation or notice, they managed to go from 5-11 in his last year to 8-8 and then 9-7. Yeah, they really missed him. And if he was so great, he missed out on a chance to make those teams even better (but I suspect he wouldn't have). And her made the playoffs 5 times in 10 years, so his passive pouting about not being on a winning team is bullshit. But we'll never know, because he quit. The guy's a loser, man. Just face it.

[Enigma869]

Great rebuttal. Yeah, the stats show how good he was in the clutch (playoffs) and you simply can't refute them. It's also worth noting that he tried to keep his signing bonus after he walked out on his team and didn't even have the courtesy to tell them to make plans without him. He's a piece of shit and a loser. It's also interesting how, when he left them without explanation or notice, they managed to go from 5-11 in his last year to 8-8 and then 9-7. Yeah, they really missed him. And if he was so great, he missed out on a chance to make those teams even better (but I suspect he wouldn't have). And her made the playoffs 5 times in 10 years, so his passive pouting about not being on a winning team is bullshit. But we'll never know, because he quit. The guy's a loser, man. Just face it.

Let me ask you a question NFL Genius. Because you brought up "in the clutch" and playoff records, what is your stance on Peyton Manning and Brett Favre? Both guys have fucking putrid performances in big games, so I assume that they're both "losers", according to you? Sorry...the Super Bowl argument doesn't work for me, because those Detroit teams were fucking DREADFUL with or without Barry Sanders. All you need to know about how sucky they were is that you're in here thumping your chest about them going 8-8 after Sanders left, without mentioning any free agents who were signed by Detroit that season!

[Saint John]

Great rebuttal. Yeah, the stats show how good he was in the clutch (playoffs) and you simply can't refute them. It's also worth noting that he tried to keep his signing bonus after he walked out on his team and didn't even have the courtesy to tell them to make plans without him. He's a piece of shit and a loser. It's also interesting how, when he left them without explanation or notice, they managed to go from 5-11 in his last year to 8-8 and then 9-7. Yeah, they really missed him. And if he was so great, he missed out on a chance to make those teams even better (but I suspect he wouldn't have). And her made the playoffs 5 times in 10 years, so his passive pouting about not being on a winning team is bullshit. But we'll never know, because he quit. The guy's a loser, man. Just face it.

Let me ask you a question NFL Genius. Because you brought up "in the clutch" and playoff records, what is your stance on Peyton Manning and Brett Favre? Both guys have fucking putrid performances in big games, so I assume that they're both "losers", according to you? Sorry...the Super Bowl argument doesn't work for me, because those Detroit teams were fucking DREADFUL with or without Barry Sanders. All you need to know about how sucky they were is that you're in here thumping your chest about them going 8-8 after Sanders left, without mentioning any free agents who were signed by Detroit that season!

Manning and Favre have enough playoff wins, enough games played and enough playoff wins that they were almost totally responsible for in their holsters (and, to be fair, losses as well) to make me believe that winning means/meant a lot to them.

The year after Barry Sanders left, they went with 2 legendary QB's, Gus Frerotte, who started 2-4 and then Charlie Batch, who finished up 6-4. Their leading (non-kicking) scorer was the immortal Germane Crowell. Please, please tell me what the fuck they did to get better, other than having the fucking loser quit???

[YoungJRNY]

Obviously written by someone with an agenda and someone who doesn't like Sanders. You can find 100 different articles disparaging Sanders and it won't change the great player that he was. Like I said, hate the guy all you want, but saying the guy sucks makes you look like a complete jackass whose football knowledge wouldn't fill a fucking thimble!

Great rebuttal. Yeah, the stats show how good he was in the clutch (playoffs) and you simply can't refute them. It's also worth noting that he tried to keep his signing bonus after he walked out on his team and didn't even have the courtesy to tell them to make plans without him. He's a piece of shit and a loser. It's also interesting how, when he left them without explanation or notice, they managed to go from 5-11 in his last year to 8-8 and then 9-7. Yeah, they really missed him. And if he was so great, he missed out on a chance to make those teams even better (but I suspect he wouldn't have). And her made the playoffs 5 times in 10 years, so his passive pouting about not being on a winning team is bullshit. But we'll never know, because he quit. The guy's a loser, man. Just face it.

You bring up some great points, as always, Dan. Noone is disputing that Sanders is one of the best ever, but people within their organization always did say he just never cared the last couple of seasons with the Lions. And like you pointed out, he did crack the post-season multiple times so it wasn't like he never had a crack at contending for a championship on a playoff team (even though the Lions were exits in the playoffs, we all know how the NFL playoffs could be unpredictable.)

He did and when it was time for the Lions to make strides as a franchise, the franchise he was the FACE of, let alone the league, he just quit out of nowhere, stunning the football world. At the pace he was going, he sure could have a ring at the end of what would seem like a very long and healthy career, but I guess he doesn't have to explain anything to anyone.

As for the Lions not being able to break down the door, the Sanders era saw elite players (H.O.F players) and dynasty teams within the NFC Conference like the Green Bay Packers, San Francisco 49'ers and the Dallas Cowboys.

Sanders and the Lions entered the playoffs at the peak of those certain teams (1991, 1993 (Dallas), 1994 (San Francisco), 1995 (Dallas), and 1997 (Green Bay.)) Maybe he thought his time wasn't the right time for him to secure an NFL Title and never saw that landscape changing for a long while in the NFL.

[Enigma869]

. Noone is disputing that Sanders is one of the best ever

I'm reasonably certain that even with my public school education that I can connect the dots here and say that Dan is absolutely "disputing" Sanders' greatness. The argument that Detroit won a few more games after Sanders left is moronic. I'm pretty sure that both the Texas Rangers and Seattle Mariners both won more games when Alex Rodriguez left. Dan obviously hates Sanders and that's more than okay with me. I'm not from Detroit (thank God) but don't respect anyone's football knowledge who truly believes that Barry Sanders wasn't a great football player. Last I checked, Dan Marino still seems to be retired with zero Super Bowl rings and Marino played on MUCH better teams than Sanders ever played on!

[Rockindeano]

His 3.3% career INT % isn't really all that bad. Considering how long he's played, I'm not sure the 166 fumbles are all that bad. I wonder what his % of fumbling the ball compared to numbers of times handled it would be compare to other QBs?

By the way, I looked it up and there are probably more than 100 NFL QB's who have a lower career Int% than Favre. Favre's 3.3% ties him with the immortals like Stan Humphries, Tony Eason (who John Hannah said should wear a skirt), Patrick Ramsey, Steve Dils, Roman Gabriel, Elvis Grbac, Daunte Culpepper, and Joey Harrington. There is a list you want to be keeping company with!

You focus on the INT's....where OG threw the ball more, a lot more than anyone ever did.

Funny though, I never hear you cite Favres NFL career leading 72,000 passing yareds and SB ring? Be fair at least Jonathan.