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General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby artist4perry » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:23 am

Ligzig wrote:
S2M wrote:
Ligzig wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Ligzig wrote:Who are you to say what my understanding or relationship to God was like? Just because I am no longer blinded by the light doesn't mean I don't know what having faith is all about.


You seem to have all kinds of things to say about the motives and beliefs of those who do believe in God yet you feel threatened when someone questions yours? Unbelievable. I think there's a word for that...


Questions my what? I don't believe in God or religion anymore, what of it? You are playing a dirty game right now, and it's pathetic. I used to have faith for the same reasons you, or anyone else has faith. If you have any specific questions, ask them. I don't feel threatened. What I DO find offensive is your arrogance. Who the fuck are you to say how strong my faith was? Or what true faith is? Are you Jesus? No? Then feel free to fuck yourself.

Again, if you have questions, ask them. Don't try to corner me with stupid bullshit.

Behshad wrote:Your faith in God wasnt a real faith,,, you just did it cause of your parents, not what you felt inside... and good for you if you found something better. The problem is what you have found is as hard to prove or explain as your previous faith ;)


Fuck you. And fuck your God too. Who do you think you are? You have no idea about my past faith. I believed in God for over half my life.

Have fun living in the dark ages. I don't follow any religion or belief. Science involves no faith. I live my life by physical evidence and reasonable logic. Something you know nothing about and have a zero amount of in your body.



Actually that is not entirely true. You have to have faith in what the scientists are relating about said science is true....


No, scientists do not simply write things in text books and put it out there for people to read as facts. It doesn't work that way. You see, unlike the bible....where things are written and then preached, and nobody asks questions or tests things, science does. There is a review system, things have to be measured and tested, there are facts in every text book and you can replicate results. I'll give you one thing though, a level of faith is required when you get into quantum physics.


Ligzig, there are christian scientists who seek scientific evidences for creation theory. Kyle Butt is one who debates with atheists on a regular basis over both theories. He has written many books on the scientific evidences of God. I have taken course studies on creation science. Now I won't waste my time to bring the evidences here, you guys will only call it hooey and it is a waste of time is it not? I mean even if I could show you science that backs up the theory of a higher creator would you even listen? My guess is not. And truly I don't have any problem with you believing in evolution. I am not here to convince you otherwise. Why do I have to prove my God to you? You apparently want no part of that. So I guess a stalemate is what we have. And being ugly to you is not going to help.

I believe in dinosaurs, and the bible mentions them. The leviathan for instance. I am good with most science. I do believe in adaptation to environment. I just don't buy one creature becomes another. If so scores of bones would have been discovered already. I am not trying to convince you of this, just as a matter of fact telling you why I don't agree with it.

The symbiotic relationship of animals, insects, and earth itself points to some higher order. Not random accidents. When an animal dies, there are animals, insects, and organisms that break down the dead till it becomes the very earth itself. Very orderly, not random, or unorganized. Each creature has a purpose. Did you know that if the frog species died out we would all be in danger? They are a clear indicator of the health of our environment. I am facinated with animals and nature. I do closely study the makeup and design of creatures. I have learned to draw animals from the bone out. I have studied bones, muscle structures, and facts about animals. I love learning these things. The more I learn the more wonderful and complex this world is to me. I just don't see it all as an accident. I am not going to prove anything. It is just a statement of my thoughts.
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Postby parfait » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:39 am

Melissa wrote:
parfait wrote:if you avoid the genetics and cellular biology


But you simply can't avoid that or deny it no matter how much anyone tries. And I don't have a religious agenda at all, I'm simply talking about the facts of genetics. It's all fine and dandy that people who believe nothing but the whole evolution thing can sit there and say "Yeah apes are like 98% like our DNA" :lol: . But the facts are genetics are WAY beyond a couple of percentage points. Trisomy abnormalites alone would show anyone the gigantic difference just ONE extra copy of just ONE particular chromosome can make, and GREATLY change a human being, sometimes to the point of not even looking human, yet they are. So the leap between apes and humans is not simply a couple of percentage points... it is a HUGE leap.

Anyone can believe what they want of course, but you simply CAN'T avoid genetics.


I said that because to understand the genomics, as well as the cellular biology, because it's extremely complex, and takes a lifetime to learn. I personally could never bother getting into it, because it's just years of monotonous lab work and rigorous study of pathways and advanced algorithms. But it's true. A few nucleotides even, can make a big difference, as long as it doesn't get repaired or mismatched. You have two types of bases in DNA, purines or pyrimidines. These bases, when bonded to a phosphate and a sugar (actually more of a furan structure), will be complementary to each other, meaning that base A will be bonded to base T, and base G to C. When a defect in the securing of matching bases happens, will cause a genomic instability, which in return will elevate the risk of mutations. Just a few mis-matched, no-repared specific genes, can increase the risk of a certain type of colon cancer with 80 % - I mean, that's just a few nucleotides. So you have a point.

It's of course not as simple as saying we're 98% alike, and I didn't say that either. What I did give was some pretty standard genetical examples. What I don't understand is how both I and several others here on the board, as well as the rest of the major scientific community, have tried to clear misconceptions, but people won't simply listen. Transitional fossils, for example. Ginger just mentioned it again in her latest post, and call it fact even, that it doesn't exist - that is a lie. A blatant lie and a determination to stay ignorant because of a religious conviction.

I honestly don't understand how people can keep believing in misconception, after being told and shown that it's false. I don't get that. Not gonna repeat myself again, as that's what been done in every one of these arguments - and then it's me and Don and whatever who's being called close minded. Not trying to come of as an ass here; just providing well established evidence.
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Postby Rick » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:49 am

parfait wrote:
Rick wrote:
Ligzig wrote:
Rick wrote:
parfait wrote:
StevePerryHair wrote:
parfait wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Moon Beam wrote:
parfait wrote:I don't know it all.


Your posts and personality around here say different Sir. :lol:


:lol:

He is gonna make one helluva Urologist :)


Beshad. If you obviously got nothing to provide to the argument on either side, then there's no point in just being so god damn random.

And It's obvious that you don't got any more left, Ginger. Whatever points you've had, has been lost in false "facts" and ad hominem arguments. I asked for facts that God created this earth. You said you had them, but didn't bother showing them to me. I never told you to get the fuck out - it was a explanation for how science works. Jesus, I already told you that!

Anyhow: I won.


Really? what did you win?? When you self proclaim victory, what is the prize??? :lol:


A warm and fuzzy feeling. I won because, let's face it; Ginger can't provide a sound argument to save her life. There are simply things that are right and wrong in this world too - not everything is based on opinions. The Theory of Evolution is a fact.


If it were a "fact", it wouldn't be called a "theory".


Wrong.

"Theory, hypothesis are used in non-technical contexts to mean an untested idea or opinion. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis."

Learn the difference.


I know the difference between "theory" and "fact". "Facts" are irrefutable. Theories are disproved all the time. If Evolution were a fact, they wouldn't still refer to it as the "Theory of Evolution". Any one scientific theory in the world today can be blown out the window by one discovery tomorrow, and they know this, as it has happened over and over.


Jesus fucking christ! Haven't you read what I've written? It's like you people want to be retarded. Go to a biology class, read a book, whatever.

Deny it all you want. But I dare anyone of you to go to a biology class (college or university grade, even high school), and tell a biology professor that evolution is just some "hypothesis". He or she will laugh, sigh and then hit you in the fucking face. It's obvious that most of you has an religious agenda, and it's a true shame that because of that, you've forced schools to teach blatant lies to kids (creationism).

The rest of the western world is just facepalming, while you people teach kids that the earth is 60 000 years old and that some wizard in the sky made a woman out of a dude's rib. Yeah, great. Just great.

I don't believe in the theory of general relativity. I don't believe the theories of fluid flow. I don't believe in the theories of quantum mechanics. I sure as hell don't believe in that heliocentric shit. Why? Uh... It's just like theories, you know. Evil scientists made it all up and stuff.


Yes, I read "The Theory of Evolution is a fact." And my argument is, no theory is fact. I just took that one little snippet and argued it because proving you wrong is a lot of fun. :lol:

Then Ligzig tries to argue that also. Priceless.
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Postby Behshad » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:52 am

parfait wrote:Not trying to come of as an ass here.


We know. You just come across that way naturally without trying.
Your BS you're spewing are all theories. No facts. You can put us all down , Mr know it all , but the only two things that are facts here are
A) You have NOTHING that proves evolution.
B) You enjoy Golden Showers


I laid it out for you.( 5 out of 10 reasons ) Feel free to respond to those reasons ;)
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Postby parfait » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:03 am

Behshad wrote:
parfait wrote:Not trying to come of as an ass here.


We know. You just come across that way naturally without trying.
Your BS you're spewing are all theories. No facts. You can put us all down , Mr know it all , but the only two things that are facts here are
A) You have NOTHING that proves evolution.
B) You enjoy Golden Showers


I laid it out for you.( 5 out of 10 reasons ) Feel free to respond to those reasons ;)


When you after all this haven't even got what a scientific theory is, then you're simply a lost cause. I pity you, who's most likely mentally challenged, and lack even the ability to catch up on the simplest, the absolutely 101, of science.
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:05 am

Here it goes. Parfait, this whole thing stemmed out of you saying you cringe when your Prof. ends up being a woman. Inferring women are stupid in science. I told you I liked science. You came back and insulted my faith. Nice. If I must quote the whole mess I will.

Bottom line is, you are not more intelligent than me. We are just educated in different fields. But I do know science, because I have had several science classes and did exceptionally in all of them. I study animal bones, muscles, tendons, and fur. To draw well you have to know anatomy. I also study natures of animals, where their habitats are, what they do, and how they move. Helps when you have to draw them realistically.
I also am quite versed in Art History. Also in the Early Renaissance and Mid evil periods of history. I have taken advanced courses in these studies.

I have had 6 and 1/2 years college education. How many have you had now?
I just get sick of your condescending know it all crap. Also I could care less if you don't believe in God. Great..............more power to ya. It doesn't make you better than me at all. I am tired of your going on and on about how you win..........how? I didn't even stoop to debate with your sorry butt. Why should I? I don't have to prove jack squat to you. You would never listen and still proclaim yourself the winner.
You don't know anything about women. And peeing in a woman's mouth is not foreplay it is just vile. Even a stupid Arkansas Hayseed like me can figure that. :roll: :roll: My husband has it all over your sorry butt on how to please a woman. And he finds me very highly intelligent. It is a trait he loves about me. So you see in the grand scheme of it all, you are lacking in social graces and respect. This is why I find debating with you like debating with a stump. Neither of you would listen anyway.
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Postby Behshad » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:12 am

Yep , I'm mentally challenged , yet you're the one who drinks pee with your goose liver :lol:



DARWIN'S THEORY OF EVOLUTION DEBUNKED
Darwin's Theory of Evolution, as presented in his book "Origin of Species" has been widely accepted as fact, although it is based on Darwin's fallible speculations. His critics write, "If the theory of natural selection of Darwin is correct, why can't we see the intermediate forms of species, the connecting links?" Darwin did not have the answer nor the archeological evidence to back it up. Although there is ample evidence for many species, fossil records provide almost no evidence for the intermediate connecting links.

Later, scientists revised Darwin's theory with their "Punctuated Equilibrium" evolutionary theory, supposedly making evolution invisible in the fossil record. Yet this theory is not verifiable in any way and is highly speculative.

An interesting article appeared recently in Pravda, in Russia, which gives an excellent argument against Darwinism. The article follows:





June 7, RUSSIA (PRAVDA) — Millions of people are taught that the fossil record furnishes proof of evolution. But, where are there fossils of half-evolved dinosaurs or other creatures?





The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred. Even among evolutionists there are diametrically different interpretations and reconstructions of the fossils used to support human evolution from a supposed ape-like ancestry.

Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, we should still be able to see some stages of its process. But, we simply don't observe any partially-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats among us. Every species of plant and animal is complete and fully-formed.

Another problem is how could partially-evolved plant and animal species survive over millions of years when their basic organs and tissues were still in the process of evolving? How, for example, were animals breathing, eating, and reproducing if there respiratory, digestive, and reproductive organs were still evolving?

In fact, precisely because of this problem more and more modern evolutionists are adopting a new theory known as Punctuated Equilibrium which says that plant and animal species evolved suddenly from one kind to another and that is why we don't see evidence of partially-evolved species in the fossil record. Of course, we have to accept their word on blind faith because there is no way to prove or disprove what they are saying. These evolutionists claim that something like massive bombardment of radiation resulted in mega mutations in species which produced "instantaneous" changes from one life form to another. The nature and issue of mutations will be discussed later and the reader will see why such an argument is not viable.

The fact that animal and plant species are found fully formed and complete in the fossil record is powerful evidence (although not proof) for creation because it is evidence that they came into existence as fully formed and complete which is possible only by creation.

Evolutionists claim that the genetic and biological similarities between species is evidence of common ancestry. However, that is only one interpretation of the evidence. Another possibility is that the comparative similarities are due to a common Designer who designed similar functions for similar purposes in all the various forms of life. Neither position can be scientifically proved.

Although Darwin was partially correct by showing that natural selection occurs in nature, the problem is that natural selection itself is not a creative force. Natural selection can only work with those biological variations that are possible. The evidence from genetics supports only the possibility for horizontal evolution (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.) but not vertical evolution (i.e. from fish to human). Unless Nature has the ability to perform genetic engineering vertical evolution will not be possible.

The early grooves in the human embryo that appear to look like gills are really the early stages in the formation of the face, throat, and neck regions. The so-called "tailbone" is the early formation of the coccyx and spinal column which, because of the rate of growth being faster than the rest of the body during this stage, appears to look like a tail. The coccyx has already been proven to be useful in providing support for the pelvic muscles.

Modern science has shown that there are genetic limits to evolution or biological change in nature. Again, all biological variations, whether they are beneficial to survival or not, are possible only within the genetic potential and limits of a biological kind such as the varieties among dogs, cats, horses, cows, etc.

Variations across biological kinds such as humans evolving from ape-like creatures and apes, in turn, evolving from dog-like creatures and so on, as Darwinian evolutionary theory teaches, are not possible unless Nature has the capability of performing genetic engineering.

Biological variations are determined by the DNA or genetic code of species. The DNA molecule is actually a molecular string of various nucleic acids which are arranged in a sequence just like the letters in a sentence. It is this sequence in DNA that tells cells in the body how to construct various tissues and organs.

The common belief among evolutionists is that random mutations in the genetic code over time will produce entirely new sequences for new traits and characteristics which natural selection can then act upon resulting in entirely new species. Evolutionists consider mutations to be a form of natural genetic engineering.

However, the very nature of mutations precludes such a possibility. Mutations are accidental changes in the sequential structure of the genetic code caused by various random environmental forces such as radiation and toxic chemicals.

Almost all true mutations are harmful, which is what one would normally expect from accidents. Even if a good mutation occurred for every good one there will be thousands of harmful ones with the net result over time being disastrous for the species.

Most biological variations, however, are the result of new combinations of previously existing genes - not because of mutations.

Furthermore, mutations simply produce new varieties of already existing traits. For example, mutations in the gene for human hair may change the gene so that another type of human hair develops, but the mutations won't change the gene so that feathers or wings develop.

Sometimes mutations may trigger the duplication of already existing traits (i.e. an extra finger, toe, or even an entire head, even in another area of the body!). But mutations have no ability to produce entirely new traits or characteristics.

Young people, and even adults, often wonder how all the varieties and races of people could have descended from Adam and Eve as the Bible teaches. Well, in principle, that's no different than asking how children with different color hair (i.e., blond, brunette, brown, red ) can come from the same parents who both have black hair.

Just as some individuals today carry genes to produce descendants with different color hair and eyes, our first parents, Adam and Eve, possessed genes to produce all the varieties and races of men. You and I today may not carry the genes to produce every variety or race of humans, but Adam and Eve did possess such genes.

All varieties of humans carry the genes for the same basic traits, but not all humans carry every possible variation of those genes. For example, one person may be carrying several variations of the gene for eye color (i.e., brown, green, blue) , but someone else may be carrying only one variation of the gene for eye color (i.e., brown). Thus, both will have different abilities to affect the eye color of their offspring.

Science cannot prove we're here by creation, but neither can science prove we're here by chance or macro-evolution. No one has observed either. They are both accepted on faith. The issue is which faith, Darwinian macro-evolutionary theory or creation, has better scientific support.

What we believe about life's origins does influence our philosophy and value of life as well as our view of ourselves and others. This is no small issue!

Just because the laws of science can explain how life and the universe operate and work doesn't mean there is no Maker. Would it be rational to believe that there's no designer behind airplanes because the laws of science can explain how airplanes operate and work?

Natural laws are adequate to explain how the order in life, the universe, and even a microwave oven operates, but mere undirected natural laws can never fully explain the origin of such order.

The law of entropy in science shows that the universe does not have the ability to have sustained itself from all eternity. In other words, the universe cannot be eternal and requires a beginning.

It is only fair that school students be exposed to the scientific arguments and evidence on both sides of the creation/evolution issue.
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Postby conversationpc » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:26 am

parfait wrote:When you after all this haven't even got what a scientific theory is, then you're simply a lost cause. I pity you, who's most likely mentally challenged, and lack even the ability to catch up on the simplest, the absolutely 101, of science.


There are three basic steps as far as scientific assumptions, facts, etc., go...

1 - Hypothesis...A concept that hasn't yet been verified but is considered a good explanation for some natural occurrence, phenomena, etc.

2 - Theory...Something that is commonly-accepted knowledge about some natural occurrence, phenomena, etc.

3 - Law...Something that is firmly established and is unlikely to be changed in the future.

Looking at these three concepts, even something considered to be a law has a possibility of being changed or altered. Considering this, something called a theory like evolution seems to be somewhat less than what you evolutionists view it as and something more than what strict creationists consider it to be. Sounds to me like it's somewhere in between. I'm not dogmatic enough to say that a strict creationist model is correct, though I am a Christian and know that God made the world somehow. I'm also not dogmatic enough to say that evolution is firm, hard truth and that God played no part.
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:33 am

Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?
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Postby Rip Rokken » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:38 am

Ligzig wrote:I took it personally for all of one post, so I will apologize for the F-bombs (seems mild around here though to be honest)


Well done... you just earned yourself a...

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Postby Behshad » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:39 am

Rockindeano wrote:Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?



He's not a smart ass. More like a dumbass. I think the reason people dislike him is cause his punk ass ego is too large for someone who was born in the fuckin eighties !!!! And he doesn't know mch about RESPECT.
And he gargles "apple juice" instead of Listerine ;)
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:39 am

Rockindeano wrote:Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?


Because he started in on me because of my faith and insinuates I am stupid. You on the other hand have no real beef with me being a christian. You don't talk down to me because of it. You want to love him be my guest. I find him to be a bore.
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Postby Don » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:40 am

Rockindeano wrote:Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?


Because he's a frog. Really, that's all I can think of. I like the guy. The dude spews logic like Spock after a handful of Black Beauties.
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:44 am

Don wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?


Because he's a frog. Really, that's all I can think of. I like the guy. The dude spews logic like Spock after a handful of Black Beauties.


That is insulting Frogs. :wink: :lol: The dude is welcome to his logic, but can keep his prima donna act.
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Postby parfait » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:51 am

Behshad wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?



He's not a smart ass. More like a dumbass. I think the reason people dislike him is cause his punk ass ego is too large for someone who was born in the fuckin eighties !!!! And he doesn't know mch about RESPECT.
And he gargles "apple juice" instead of Listerine ;)


I was born in 1990. I'm a leo. That means that I'm a fiery person and kinda like a lion and stuff. Astrology is actually true. I believe in it - and I don't care if there's no evidence for it, cause I won't listen to it anyways. I've made up my mind.

No, seriously. I've been shooting out evidence like a fucking gatling gun and tried to explain simple misconceptions. There's obviously a minority who never will listen anyways, but who cares. Don and Lipzig made a good argument as well, which can't be said for the other side: "I watch birds take a crap on my car everyday - so don't tell me about biology. I got a B in kindergarten in earth science."

I like a good argument. If you got problem with an argument consisting of evidence and facts, then you know; go fuck yourself!
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Postby StevePerryHair » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:53 am

What? Is this ^^^ your personal ad? NEXT! :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:57 am

parfait wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Again, I do not understand all the disdain against Parfait. Seriously, what am I missing? The guy is a smart ass, not unlike any of us on here, so why the bitter beef on P?



He's not a smart ass. More like a dumbass. I think the reason people dislike him is cause his punk ass ego is too large for someone who was born in the fuckin eighties !!!! And he doesn't know mch about RESPECT.
And he gargles "apple juice" instead of Listerine ;)


I was born in 1990. I'm a leo. That means that I'm a fiery person and kinda like a lion and stuff. Astrology is actually true. I believe in it - and I don't care if there's no evidence for it, cause I won't listen to it anyways. I've made up my mind.

No, seriously. I've been shooting out evidence like a fucking gatling gun and tried to explain simple misconceptions. There's obviously a minority who never will listen anyways, but who cares. Don and Lipzig made a good argument as well, which can't be said for the other side: "I watch birds take a crap on my car everyday - so don't tell me about biology. I got a B in kindergarten in earth science."

I like a good argument. If you got problem with an argument consisting of evidence and facts, then you know; go fuck yourself!

:)



:lol: if you believe in astrology that means there's 12 different kind of people , lioness. :lol:

And you pile on your BS as "evidence" and "proof" , but hide like a fucking mouse when your "facts " are questioned.
Your high IQ , Super Sophosticated Mind still has minor issues , that prevents you from understanding the differences between

Fact & Theory
Perfume & Cologne
Urine & AppleJuice



And ooooo my bad , 1990. My apologies PeeBrain;)
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Postby artist4perry » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Ligzig wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Your all welcome to agree with Parfait on this one. I still say I disagree, empirical evidence my butt. Scientists were the ones who said the world was flat, so much for never being wrong. The bible has always maintained in the old testament the roundness of the earth. I am not trying to convert any of you hard core atheists. Your already convinced in your mind nothing else can exist except for what your told. Scientists also used to think ulcers were brought about by worry, they then learned they are caused by bacteria. Scientists used to bleed people to make them well, killed a few of them in the process. But they never make mistakes I get it, and I should bow to the god of Science and worship its perfect self and never question the science behind it. There is science to back up creation too, but you won't listen or care. I will continue to live my life my way, love all you guys in spite, and take my chances. If I am wrong I am dead like Rover all over and this brief life is all I have, my belief will not harm a soul. If I am right I have a great afterlife waiting. It's all good gentlemen. But I will not deny my God for all the posturing of science and atheists. You don't know all there is to know, and there are things your science cannot answer. This world is perfect in its form and symbiotic nature. What a paradise it is, it is beautiful. I love and closely study every blade of grass and animal I can. I am fascinated how every thing works. I believe in science, but not that it is perfect.


Wow, where to begin...

There is no science to back up creationists claims. None, period. You will not find any credible source that validates anything in the bible. I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm not trying to deny your beliefs. My problem stems from the fact that you, and others like you, want to challenge science, without providing ANY proof to back up your own claims. You can't sit back and point fingers at us, when it is you making the ridiculous claims. The burden of proof is on YOU, to prove your sky daddy exists, or that the fairies exist, or the unicorns, or flying testicle monsters. Not us as atheists or scientists.

Your already convinced in your mind nothing else can exist except for what your told.


Simply not true. This is absolutely hysterical coming from a Christian. You listen to everything your preacher, bible, parents, or whoever indoctrinated you, without asking for any proof or validation. God simply created the earth, man, and the universe and that was that. No proof needed. It simply is, because God said so.

let me ask you this....how is it that you know anything about the modern world of today? How is it that you enjoy the technology and healthy living of today? about space? The universe? Medicine? Was it religion that brought you this?

Of course it wasn't religion, it was science. Scientists don't just write things in text books and ship them out to be taught at schools and universities. It doesn't work that way.

Science does admit its own mistakes and has the ability to look at things objectively, and that's important. We are the ones with the open minds trying to understand, and that we stand on the shoulders of great minds before us that we can continue to make progress as a species. On the other hand, religion teaches us nothing, and kept us in the dark for thousands of years. There is nothing ignorant or closed minded about asking for proof or validation. If you cannot provide proof, and instead want to stomp your feet, huff and puff and throw a fit because you feel like we're being big meanies for calling you out, then I suggest you stay out of discussions such as this one or grow thicker skin.

empirical evidence my butt


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical

I'll leave you with that.


Lipzig..............wow. Number one, I did not say I don't know anything that backs up my belief in God, I said I am not going to. Not knowing anything and not wanting to argue it is another matter. Kyle Butt has books on the subject if you really want to know what I know. Be my guest to read them. :roll: :roll: I never said I don't believe in all science. Just Darwin's theory.
I don't agree with the big Bang theory either. I never said I had proof of God's existence. Nor have you shown me bones that go from one animal and turned into another. I did not come in here and start this mess, Parfait did. I was just saying I liked science and did well in it, he came back attacking my faith and you want to make this all my doing? I am not trying to convince you or anyone here there is a God. Either you want to believe or don't. I just get sick of Parfait and his smarter than anyone crap. And you jump on his band wagon because I refuse to argue with a self proclaimed narcissistic child? Tell me what arguing any points with him or you would avail? Neither one of you would believe a word, both would call me stupid and here we go round and round................A RIDICULOUS WASTE OF TIME! LOL! Man seriously I don't know you that well, but give me some slack. I don't bother to argue when someone clearly is in no mind to listen or to be fair minded. This has been hashed out before with him. He is resolute that no one can be as brilliant as he is. So think me stupid, whatever floats your boat. But I did not come in here starting this crap he did. He brought religion into it. So take that up with him. :roll: :roll:
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Postby Rockindeano » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:26 pm

Come on people, like P or not, and I do, if we had a poll of the smartest folks on here, my money would be on P at number 1. I am not just saying this either, and you know me, I am not a Euro lover, and P comes from Franz......

Someone start a poll, and whoever does it, must exclude DRFU, because she is clearly out of our league.
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Postby parfait » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:55 pm

artist4perry wrote:
Ligzig wrote:
artist4perry wrote:Your all welcome to agree with Parfait on this one. I still say I disagree, empirical evidence my butt. Scientists were the ones who said the world was flat, so much for never being wrong. The bible has always maintained in the old testament the roundness of the earth. I am not trying to convert any of you hard core atheists. Your already convinced in your mind nothing else can exist except for what your told. Scientists also used to think ulcers were brought about by worry, they then learned they are caused by bacteria. Scientists used to bleed people to make them well, killed a few of them in the process. But they never make mistakes I get it, and I should bow to the god of Science and worship its perfect self and never question the science behind it. There is science to back up creation too, but you won't listen or care. I will continue to live my life my way, love all you guys in spite, and take my chances. If I am wrong I am dead like Rover all over and this brief life is all I have, my belief will not harm a soul. If I am right I have a great afterlife waiting. It's all good gentlemen. But I will not deny my God for all the posturing of science and atheists. You don't know all there is to know, and there are things your science cannot answer. This world is perfect in its form and symbiotic nature. What a paradise it is, it is beautiful. I love and closely study every blade of grass and animal I can. I am fascinated how every thing works. I believe in science, but not that it is perfect.


Wow, where to begin...

There is no science to back up creationists claims. None, period. You will not find any credible source that validates anything in the bible. I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm not trying to deny your beliefs. My problem stems from the fact that you, and others like you, want to challenge science, without providing ANY proof to back up your own claims. You can't sit back and point fingers at us, when it is you making the ridiculous claims. The burden of proof is on YOU, to prove your sky daddy exists, or that the fairies exist, or the unicorns, or flying testicle monsters. Not us as atheists or scientists.

Your already convinced in your mind nothing else can exist except for what your told.


Simply not true. This is absolutely hysterical coming from a Christian. You listen to everything your preacher, bible, parents, or whoever indoctrinated you, without asking for any proof or validation. God simply created the earth, man, and the universe and that was that. No proof needed. It simply is, because God said so.

let me ask you this....how is it that you know anything about the modern world of today? How is it that you enjoy the technology and healthy living of today? about space? The universe? Medicine? Was it religion that brought you this?

Of course it wasn't religion, it was science. Scientists don't just write things in text books and ship them out to be taught at schools and universities. It doesn't work that way.

Science does admit its own mistakes and has the ability to look at things objectively, and that's important. We are the ones with the open minds trying to understand, and that we stand on the shoulders of great minds before us that we can continue to make progress as a species. On the other hand, religion teaches us nothing, and kept us in the dark for thousands of years. There is nothing ignorant or closed minded about asking for proof or validation. If you cannot provide proof, and instead want to stomp your feet, huff and puff and throw a fit because you feel like we're being big meanies for calling you out, then I suggest you stay out of discussions such as this one or grow thicker skin.

empirical evidence my butt


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical

I'll leave you with that.


Lipzig..............wow. Number one, I did not say I don't know anything that backs up my belief in God, I said I am not going to. Not knowing anything and not wanting to argue it is another matter. Kyle Butt has books on the subject if you really want to know what I know. Be my guest to read them. :roll: :roll: I never said I don't believe in all science. Just Darwin's theory.
I don't agree with the big Bang theory either. I never said I had proof of God's existence. Nor have you shown me bones that go from one animal and turned into another. I did not come in here and start this mess, Parfait did. I was just saying I liked science and did well in it, he came back attacking my faith and you want to make this all my doing? I am not trying to convince you or anyone here there is a God. Either you want to believe or don't. I just get sick of Parfait and his smarter than anyone crap. And you jump on his band wagon because I refuse to argue with a self proclaimed narcissistic child? Tell me what arguing any points with him or you would avail? Neither one of you would believe a word, both would call me stupid and here we go round and round................A RIDICULOUS WASTE OF TIME! LOL! Man seriously I don't know you that well, but give me some slack. I don't bother to argue when someone clearly is in no mind to listen or to be fair minded. This has been hashed out before with him. He is resolute that no one can be as brilliant as he is. So think me stupid, whatever floats your boat. But I did not come in here starting this crap he did. He brought religion into it. So take that up with him. :roll: :roll:


Cut the crap already. You've continuously said that there's evidence for creation - even evidence that the big bang theory isn't correct. And I've told you several times, that please provide me that evidence; I'm keeping an open mind here. Linking to some book isn't going to cut it. Give me an explanation how and why the evolutionary theory with genetics, are used all over the world to predict genetical outcomes by the use of transgenic animals? Or what about what I mentioned in my previous post regarding chromosome fusion or the presence of cytochrome C? What about how the mitochondrial DNA is almost an exact replica to circular, prokaryotic DNA? I'd like to hear it.

Now, the argument over transitional bones have been explained several times by me and lipzig in this thread. Why don't you at least read the posts? I'd like for you to actually answer my questions for once, not just avoiding them by asking me more questions, or blatantly ignoring them (that counts for you too, Beshad.)

Now, finally, since it's obvious you people still haven't got the difference between a theory and facts, then I'll (for the second time), provide a quote by one of the worlds most famous biologists; Jay Gould - who thought biology at NYU, Harvard and worked at American Museum of Natural History.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts do not go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's, but apples did not suspend themselves in mid-air, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.
—Stephen Jay Gould, Evolution as Fact and Theory
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Postby Behshad » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:58 pm

Im ignoring your "proof" cause youre ignoring my arguments that I posted ;)

How can you actually PROVE Big Bang, moron !? There are NO facts, ONLY theories. You just accept them as facts in YOUR mind, which is YOUR right to do so, but you aint fuckin gonna force no one to believe in that BS :wink:
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Postby Behshad » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:01 am

Rockindeano wrote:Come on people, like P or not, and I do, if we had a poll of the smartest folks on here, my money would be on P at number 1. I am not just saying this either, and you know me, I am not a Euro lover, and P comes from Franz......

Someone start a poll, and whoever does it, must exclude DRFU, because she is clearly out of our league.


:lol:
What happened to 7wishes ? Is he dumber than PeePee now? ;)
We know you have bi-tendencies, and its clear that his fetish has turned you on somewhat, just like your videoclip on the train turned him on ;)
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Postby RedWingFan » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:04 am

Behshad wrote:Im ignoring your "proof" cause youre ignoring my arguments that I posted ;)

How can you actually PROVE Big Bang, moron !? There are NO facts, ONLY theories. You just accept them as facts in YOUR mind, which is YOUR right to do so, but you aint fuckin gonna force no one to believe in that BS :wink:

Another thing if the big bang did happen. According to the laws of physics, all the planets should be spinning in the same direction. They're not.
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Postby parfait » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:58 am

Behshad wrote:Im ignoring your "proof" cause youre ignoring my arguments that I posted ;)

How can you actually PROVE Big Bang, moron !? There are NO facts, ONLY theories. You just accept them as facts in YOUR mind, which is YOUR right to do so, but you aint fuckin gonna force no one to believe in that BS :wink:


Haha. Your ignorance never ceases to surprise me. The big bang theory is backed up by loads of evidence. Now, I don't expect you to understand it, because, let's face it, dude: you're a fucking retard, who can't even grasp the simplest of scientific terms. I mean, if you were to go into a university level science class, then you would kicked out faster than you can say 9/11 conspiracy.

Quantum mechanics, age of the universe, light expansion, abundance of simple elements, cosmic background radiation and through mathematical laws, like Hubble's. Who the fuck do you think you are, who got the right and knowledge to dismiss something that has been calculated on for more than two decades? My point still stands however. Further study of quantum mechanics, as well as findings in CERN, will only help to improve the already well establishes theory. Maybe they'll even find the Higgs Boson.

The spin thing is a misconception and ignorance of basic physics: The planets all coalesced from the same cloud of dust about five billion years ago. That was not the big bang; planet formation is no big mystery because we can watch the whole process around other stars. The big bang happened 9 billions years, prior to planet formation. Conservation of angular momentum doesn't require that everything spin the same way. Retrograde planets are not a violation of angular momentum because other bodies in the early solar system could account for the compensating spin. Scientists know very little about gravity however. The finding of a graviton or some good evidence for M-theory is coming soon though. The big bang was not a explosion, but a expanding of space (it still does).

Answer just one question, without copy pasting some creationist shit, from my last post. Just one question. I mean, that should be possible, since you're so determined that the evolutionary theory is just a load of bullshit. Too bad the whole scientific community don't agree with you. Gee, weird. Seriously. 1 answer. That's it.

I honestly feel sorry for society and coming generations, if people like you are the meme for what to come.
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Postby Behshad » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:18 am

parfait wrote:
Behshad wrote:Im ignoring your "proof" cause youre ignoring my arguments that I posted ;)

How can you actually PROVE Big Bang, moron !? There are NO facts, ONLY theories. You just accept them as facts in YOUR mind, which is YOUR right to do so, but you aint fuckin gonna force no one to believe in that BS :wink:


Haha. Your ignorance never ceases to surprise me. The big bang theory is backed up by loads of evidence. Now, I don't expect you to understand it, because, let's face it, dude: you're a fucking retard, who can't even grasp the simplest of scientific terms. I mean, if you were to go into a university level science class, then you would kicked out faster than you can say 9/11 conspiracy.

Quantum mechanics, age of the universe, light expansion, abundance of simple elements, cosmic background radiation and through mathematical laws, like Hubble's. Who the fuck do you think you are, who got the right and knowledge to dismiss something that has been calculated on for more than two decades? My point still stands however. Further study of quantum mechanics, as well as findings in CERN, will only help to improve the already well establishes theory. Maybe they'll even find the Higgs Boson.

The spin thing is a misconception and ignorance of basic physics: The planets all coalesced from the same cloud of dust about five billion years ago. That was not the big bang; planet formation is no big mystery because we can watch the whole process around other stars. The big bang happened 9 billions years, prior to planet formation. Conservation of angular momentum doesn't require that everything spin the same way. Retrograde planets are not a violation of angular momentum because other bodies in the early solar system could account for the compensating spin. Scientists know very little about gravity however. The finding of a graviton or some good evidence for M-theory is coming soon though. The big bang was not a explosion, but a expanding of space (it still does).

Answer just one question, without copy pasting some creationist shit, from my last post. Just one question. I mean, that should be possible, since you're so determined that the evolutionary theory is just a load of bullshit. Too bad the whole scientific community don't agree with you. Gee, weird. Seriously. 1 answer. That's it.

I honestly feel sorry for society and coming generations, if people like you are the meme for what to come.



All that nonsense you blab about, is THEORIES... there is NO evidence of Big Bang, only theories. You buy anything scientist suggest as THEORIES as facts and run with it. You never questin it, you just accept it cause it came from a scientist. But even scientists have disagreements amongst themselves. You think ALL scientists believe in Big Bang THEORY ??
The Big Bang is already dead! The unheralded "Galileo of the 20th century", Halton Arp, has proven that the universe is not expanding. The Big Bang theory is based on a misinterpretation of redshift. The redshift of a distant galaxy is measured in the light coming from that galaxy. Lines in the spectrum of that galaxy show a shift toward the red compared with the same lines from our Sun. Arp discovered that high and low redshift objects are sometimes connected by a bridge or jet of matter. So redshift cannot be a measure of distance. Most of the redshift is intrinsic to the object. But there is more: Arp found that the intrinsic redshift of a quasar or galaxy took discrete values, which decreased with distance from a central active galaxy. In Arp's new view of the cosmos, active galaxies "give birth" to high redshift quasars and companion galaxies. Redshift becomes a measure of the relative ages of nearby quasars and galaxies, not their distance. As a quasar or galaxy ages, the redshift decreases in discrete steps, or quanta.

The huge puzzle for astrophysicists is why a galaxy should exhibit an atomic phenomenon. So we turn to particle physics. This difficulty highlights the fact that quantum "mechanics" applied to atoms is a theory without physical reality. The weirdness of quantum theory has been attributed to the subatomic scale to which it applies. But now that we have quantum effects in something the size of a galaxy, this convenient nonsense is exposed. If Arp is right many experts are going to look very silly. His discovery sounded the alarm in some halls of Academe and since nobody likes a loud noise - particularly if they are asleep - the knee-jerk response was to attack the guy with his finger on the alarm button. Arp's telescope time was denied, papers rejected, and he was forced to leave the US to pursue his work.

--------------------------------

The consequences and possibilities in an Electric Universe are far-reaching. First we must acknowledge our profound ignorance! We know nothing of the origin of the universe. There was no Big Bang. The visible universe is static and much smaller than we thought. We have no idea of the age or extent of the universe. We don't know the ultimate source of the electrical energy or matter that forms the universe. Galaxies are shaped by electrical forces and form plasma focuses at their centers, which periodically eject quasars and jets of electrons. Quasars evolve into companion galaxies. Galaxies form families with identifiable "parents" and "children". Stars are electrical “transformers” not thermonuclear devices. There are no neutron stars or Black Holes. We don't know the age of stars because the thermonuclear evolution theory does not apply to them. Supernovae are totally inadequate as a source of heavy elements. We do not know the age of the Earth because radioactive clocks can be upset by powerful electric discharges.

The powerful electric discharges that form a stellar photosphere create the heavy elements that appear in their spectra. Stars "give birth" electrically to companion stars and gas giant planets. Life is most likely to form inside the radiant plasma envelope of a brown dwarf star! Our Sun has gained new planets, including the Earth. That accounts for the “fruit-salad” of their characteristics. It is not the most hospitable place for life since small changes in the distant Sun could freeze or sterilize the Earth. Planetary surfaces and atmospheres are deposited during their birth from a larger body and during electrical encounters with other planets. Planetary surfaces bear the electrical scars of such cosmic events. The speed of light is not a barrier. Real-time communication over galactic distances may be possible. Therefore time is universal and time travel is impossible. Anti-gravity is possible. Space has no extra dimensions in which to warp or where parallel universes may exist. There is no "zero-point" vacuum energy. The invisible energy source in space is electrical. Clean nuclear power is available from resonant catalytic nuclear systems. Higher energy is available from resonant catalytic chemical systems than in the usual chemical reactions. Biological enzymes are capable of utilizing resonant nuclear catalysis to transmute elements. Biological systems show evidence of communicating via resonant chemical systems, which may lend a physical explanation to the work of Rupert Sheldrake. DNA does not hold the key to life but is more like a blueprint for a set of components and tools in a factory. We may never be able to read the human genome and tell whether it represents a creature with two legs or six because the information that controls the assembly line is external to the DNA. There is more to life than chemistry.

We are not hopelessly isolated in time and space on a tiny rock, orbiting an insignificant star in an insignificant galaxy. We are hopefully connected with the power and intelligence of the universe.

The future in an Electric Universe looks very exciting indeed!
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Postby S2M » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:38 am

Anything viewed is the past anyway. You see the stars that comprise Orion the Hunter, but since the light you see from them take so long to reach us - those stars MAY not even exist anymore. So light from the outer reaches of the galaxy(the light used to measure the redshift) may be so old that the universe may not even be expanding anymore....Also, since velocity isn't a constant - the initial inertia from the Big Bang is going to be zero at some point - at which time the universe is going to collapse into itself....then there will be blueshift.
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Postby Angel » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:48 am

You guys, this is an internet message board, not the freakin' Mensa Convention!!!!!

As much as y'all would like to believe you're Mensa material, I've got news for ya-you're not!!!!!

Have a nice day. :lol:
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Postby ebake02 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:51 am

Angel wrote:You guys, this is an internet message board, not the freakin' Mensa Convention!!!!!

As much as y'all would like to believe you're Mensa material, I've got news for ya-you're not!!!!!

Have a nice day. :lol:


Dumb question.....What the hell is Mensa?
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Postby StevePerryHair » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:53 am

ebake02 wrote:
Angel wrote:You guys, this is an internet message board, not the freakin' Mensa Convention!!!!!

As much as y'all would like to believe you're Mensa material, I've got news for ya-you're not!!!!!

Have a nice day. :lol:


Dumb question.....What the hell is Mensa?
Something you will never be part of! People who are part of MENSA don't ask dumb questions :lol:
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Postby ebake02 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:59 am

StevePerryHair wrote:
ebake02 wrote:
Angel wrote:You guys, this is an internet message board, not the freakin' Mensa Convention!!!!!

As much as y'all would like to believe you're Mensa material, I've got news for ya-you're not!!!!!

Have a nice day. :lol:


Dumb question.....What the hell is Mensa?
Something you will never be part of! People who are part of MENSA don't ask dumb questions :lol:


So it must be one of those super intelligent organizations then? If that's the case then no, I'll never be a part of that. One look at my SAT scores and they'll probably send me to some Special Ed program. :lol: :lol:
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