Too stupid to breathe

[Saint John]

I don't know how to do a poll!!

If you kiss it and it gets bigger, you're off to a good start.


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[StevePerryHair]

I don't know how to do a poll!!

If you kiss it and it gets bigger, you're off to a good start.


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yeah, let me try that and get back to you!

[ebake02]

As long as your offering......

[conversationpc]

I am agnostic these days too, leaning currently toward a type of atheism but the jury is out on everything for me. Most of the agnostics or athiests I've talked to would return to faith quickly if they could justify it as true. Logic, knowledge and personal experience just doesn't allow them to...

If that's what atheists or agnostics are looking for, I have my doubts that they will ever find it. I think a lot of times when we rely on our own limited logic, limited knowledge, and limited personal experience, and try to put an unlimited God in the proverbial box, thinking we have him all figured out, it only does just the opposite.

On the other hand, I don't think God ever intended for man to believe blindly. I think that's where a lot of so-called "Christians" fall short. Atheists and agnostics fall into that trap as well, thinking that all Christians must be moronic, potato-eating, knuckle-dragging simpletons, which is just isn't true at all.

There've certainly been times in my life when it's seemed like there's less reason to believe than others but God has always seemed to come through with something. From C.S. Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters"..."Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy's will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been forsaken, and still obeys."

[Rockindeano]

I don't know how to do a poll!!

If you kiss it and it gets bigger, you're off to a good start.


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yeah, let me try that and get back to you!

I will never forget one comment you made Lynn and I almost wacked off to it. You said a long tome ago, referring to your husband, "He knows he can do anything he wants to me, anything." From that moment on, my respect for you grew infinity. I then of course wondered, does Melissa feel the same? Everytime I think of you, I get melissa too...kind of like a bonus babe.

[Rockindeano]

By the way, my post was not an insult to Gerene.

No insult taken Dean and thank you.

I figured it fit you. You're nuttier than squirrel turd to begin with so, why stop?

[parfait]

It's weird that miracles only are noticed by religious people. The whole everything has a meaning shit is shamefull. Tell that everything happens for a reason to the billions living in poverty, the kids getting molested by family members or what about the whole god damn cancer ward! Who are you to think that god has a greater plan with you, while he uses somalian kids as cannon fodder in guerilla wars? Disguisting.

No more shameful or disgusting than one thinking they are better than others.

That's ridiculous. The whole point of religion is to feel superior to someone else. Christians are God's people, they believe in the correct God, and go to heaven. What about the hindus? Or the Jews? Or the Muslims? They all think the same; that they're somewhat superior, because of their faith - their connection to God.

That's the whole point of atheism. Sure, I might be more rational and intelligent, but it has mainly to do with the fact that I don't need some imaginary friend that tells me I'm special and that he got some plan with me, not the kids who's dying like flies in the third world. Great stuff.

[ebake02]

Are you really still beating that horse?

[Melissa]

Amazing how a story about some ditzy texting moron falling into a fountain (STILL laughing ) turned into 10 pages of fighting over religion, lol.

[Angel]

Amazing how a story about some ditzy texting moron falling into a fountain (STILL laughing ) turned into 10 pages of fighting over religion, lol.

And the idea of MRI!

[Behshad]

It's weird that miracles only are noticed by religious people. The whole everything has a meaning shit is shamefull. Tell that everything happens for a reason to the billions living in poverty, the kids getting molested by family members or what about the whole god damn cancer ward! Who are you to think that god has a greater plan with you, while he uses somalian kids as cannon fodder in guerilla wars? Disguisting.

No more shameful or disgusting than one thinking they are better than others.

That's ridiculous. The whole point of religion is to feel superior to someone else. Christians are God's people, they believe in the correct God, and go to heaven. What about the hindus? Or the Jews? Or the Muslims? They all think the same; that they're somewhat superior, because of their faith - their connection to God.

That's the whole point of atheism. Sure, I might be more rational and intelligent, but it has mainly to do with the fact that I don't need some imaginary friend that tells me I'm special and that he got some plan with me, not the kids who's dying like flies in the third world. Great stuff.

So you don't believe in God , simply cause there's both good and evil in this world?! You'd only believe in a superior power , if everyone had a happy life and lived like a princess/you ?! So if there's a "creator" things should only be positive.
With your logic , I guess you should that Bill Gates is the founder of Microsoft , simply cause there's good and bad in Windows vista. If he truly CREATED Microsoft , then Windows should be flawless.
Maybe you don't have that imaginary friend simply because anything you ask for is provided to you by mom/dad/butler/nanny ?!
You THINK your more intelligent and you also think your superior to any believers.

[conversationpc]

That's ridiculous. The whole point of religion is to feel superior to someone else. Christians are God's people, they believe in the correct God, and go to heaven.

Actually, most Christians that I know, myself included, feel just the opposite. It is simply because of having faith in Jesus Christ that we KNOW we aren't superior to anyone else.

That's the whole point of atheism. Sure, I might be more rational and intelligent...

Nice try...

[Behshad]

That's the whole point of atheism. Sure, I might be more rational and intelligent...

Nice try...

You caught that too. He IS sneaky , that's for sure

[S2M]

Religious individuals no matter how hard they try cannot, without contradiction, believe all four of these statements:

(1) Any act that god commits, causes, commands, or condones is morally permissible.
(2) The bible reveals to us many of the acts that god commits, causes, commands, and condones.
(3) It is morally impermissible for anyone to commit, cause, command, or condone, acts that violate our moral principles.
(4) The bible tells us that god does in fact commit, cause, command, or condone, acts that violate our moral principles.

You could believe in 1, 2, 3...but then you come to number 4 and the pious have to take pause and re-evaluate. Or you can believe in 2,3, and 4...then go back to 1 and realize that believing in a god that is a hypocrite is illogical. The religious are quick to defend the bible, but yet tread water and backtrack when confronted with an inconsistency with; 'the Bible shouldn't be taken literally'.

[Duncan]

Don't know if this is true, but I read today that in the Bible the majority of interactions between god and humans involves him killing them.

[parfait]

It's weird that miracles only are noticed by religious people. The whole everything has a meaning shit is shamefull. Tell that everything happens for a reason to the billions living in poverty, the kids getting molested by family members or what about the whole god damn cancer ward! Who are you to think that god has a greater plan with you, while he uses somalian kids as cannon fodder in guerilla wars? Disguisting.

No more shameful or disgusting than one thinking they are better than others.

That's ridiculous. The whole point of religion is to feel superior to someone else. Christians are God's people, they believe in the correct God, and go to heaven. What about the hindus? Or the Jews? Or the Muslims? They all think the same; that they're somewhat superior, because of their faith - their connection to God.

That's the whole point of atheism. Sure, I might be more rational and intelligent, but it has mainly to do with the fact that I don't need some imaginary friend that tells me I'm special and that he got some plan with me, not the kids who's dying like flies in the third world. Great stuff.

So you don't believe in God , simply cause there's both good and evil in this world?! You'd only believe in a superior power , if everyone had a happy life and lived like a princess/you ?! So if there's a "creator" things should only be positive.
With your logic , I guess you should that Bill Gates is the founder of Microsoft , simply cause there's good and bad in Windows vista. If he truly CREATED Microsoft , then Windows should be flawless.
Maybe you don't have that imaginary friend simply because anything you ask for is provided to you by mom/dad/butler/nanny ?!
You THINK your more intelligent and you also think your superior to any believers.

I don't believe in any God, because evidence for his/her existence is zero. Why don't you believe in the Pink Unicorn God or Odin? Because you live in a part of the world where kids are raised to believe in the judeo christian God. If there is such a thing as a God, a pink unicorn princess or whatever, then he/she is a psychopathic, mass murdering sadist. Ever been to a cancer ward before, Beshad? Or taken a trip down to western Africa? There's no God there.

Religion is a totalitarian, sadomasochistic thing from the past; where we need to fear the thing we also must love. An eternal, supervising parent, who always keeps you under surveillance and constantly demands that I thank and praise him. God is callous and capricious. I would rather be hindu than a christian however, which has molested, tortured and raped boys for centuries, and when found it; nothing at all happened. The pope is a leader of a religion which molests and murders - not to mention the fact that he told Africa, a continent where rape is used as a form of oppression and terror, said that condoms doesn't work.

No thanks.

[Behshad]

So again , you'd only believe in God if he was helping everyone with every problemsv they got ?

Have you ever lost a Child , Gael ?! If I was to just believe in God and tell him F you when I didn't get my miracle , I'd given up long time ago. I lost not one but two sons. Instead of turning cold and say "Fuck this , I'm gonna believe in apes from now on", I believed even more. I realized that there is a reason behind everything that God does. One of my sons went through severe epilepsy from birth for three years till God finally took him home. Right there was my miracle that as bad as I wanted my son with me , I realized God chose what was best for him.
So save your cancer ward speech. I've been through plenty of bad and good , but the bad hasn't made me stop believing in our creater. It's only made me and me belief stronger.

I don't believe in any religion but I respect those who do. I only believe in God , the creator of us. You can deny him but sooner or later you will see the light.

[parfait]

So again , you'd only believe in God if he was helping everyone with every problemsv they got ?

Have you ever lost a Child , Gael ?! If I was to just believe in God and tell him F you when I didn't get my miracle , I'd given up long time ago. I lost not one but two sons. Instead of turning cold and say "Fuck this , I'm gonna believe in apes from now on", I believed even more. I realized that there is a reason behind everything that God does. One of my sons went through severe epilepsy from birth for three years till God finally took him home. Right there was my miracle that as bad as I wanted my son with me , I realized God chose what was best for him.
So save your cancer ward speech. I've been through plenty of bad and good , but the bad hasn't made me stop believing in our creater. It's only made me and me belief stronger.

I don't believe in any religion but I respect those who do. I only believe in God , the creator of us. You can deny him but sooner or later you will see the light.

There is no light, no life after death. Who lives and who dies are mainly about coincidences and luck. A shame about your kids, honestly. The whole point of believing in a God is that it makes our life on earth a little bit better - we tell ourself that this isn't all there is, that death isn't the end of it. It's a comforting thought.

The world is a cruel place, filled to the brink of poverty, injustice and death. You obviously still don't get evolution at all, and true, there is a certain unforgiving nature to it. I get why people would like to think otherwise, but that is the reality of it. We're born out of nucleotides, basic chemical sequences, and live a pretty short life, then die. That's it.

[Behshad]

It's laughable that with your view on life you want to become a physician ! If we live and die just based on luck and random , them why the fuck would you care about interfering with others health( luck )and possibly prvoid them with longer life and mess with their luck or lack thereof ?!

You're too young to get a feel of the real world pain. You talk about Somalian kids and raping priests. But you don't have first hand experience of true pain. I don't wish pain upon you , just guidance. There's always hope. Even for you. .

[StevePerryHair]

So again , you'd only believe in God if he was helping everyone with every problemsv they got ?
Have you ever lost a Child , Gael ?! If I was to just believe in God and tell him F you when I didn't get my miracle , I'd given up long time ago. I lost not one but two sons. Instead of turning cold and say "Fuck this , I'm gonna believe in apes from now on", I believed even more. I realized that there is a reason behind everything that God does. One of my sons went through severe epilepsy from birth for three years till God finally took him home. Right there was my miracle that as bad as I wanted my son with me , I realized God chose what was best for him. So save your cancer ward speech. I've been through plenty of bad and good , but the bad hasn't made me stop believing in our creater. It's only made me and me belief stronger. I don't believe in any religion but I respect those who do. I only believe in God , the creator of us. You can deny him but sooner or later you will see the light.

There is no light, no life after death. Who lives and who dies are mainly about coincidences and luck. A shame about your kids, honestly. The whole point of believing in a God is that imakes our life on earth a little bit better - we tell ourself that this isn't all there is, that death isn't the end of it. It's a comforting thought. The world is a cruel place, filled to the brink of poverty, injustice and death. You obviously still don't get evolution at all, and true, there is a certain unforgiving nature to it. I get why people would like to think otherwise, but that is the reality of it. We're born out of nucleotides, basic chemical sequences, and live a pretty short life, then die. That's it.

Promise this....when you lose patients someday, and you WILL! don't ever ever be the doctor who has to break that news. If you had said this shit to me when my dad died, or my mom, or acted like a robot sharing it, I would have punched you in the face. PLENTY of doctors believe in God. And wow, science too.

[conversationpc]

Religious individuals no matter how hard they try cannot, without contradiction, believe all four of these statements:

(1) Any act that god commits, causes, commands, or condones is morally permissible.
(2) The bible reveals to us many of the acts that god commits, causes, commands, and condones.
(3) It is morally impermissible for anyone to commit, cause, command, or condone, acts that violate our moral principles.
(4) The bible tells us that god does in fact commit, cause, command, or condone, acts that violate our moral principles.

You could believe in 1, 2, 3...but then you come to number 4 and the pious have to take pause and re-evaluate. Or you can believe in 2,3, and 4...then go back to 1 and realize that believing in a god that is a hypocrite is illogical. The religious are quick to defend the bible, but yet tread water and backtrack when confronted with an inconsistency with; 'the Bible shouldn't be taken literally'.

It's good to see that Fact Finder is not the only one here who can copy and paste. I can as well.

As for the four claims above...

Let’s have a look for this contradiction. I am not aware of any Christian, let alone Christian ethicist, who endorses claim 1. I certainly do not. The view I hold is that an act is right if God commands or wills it, and an act is wrong if God forbids or wills against it. God, according to the Bible, does many things that it would be wrong for me to do, but which he does not command or will that I do: Bringing civilizations to an end, ending human lives all the time, and so forth. So premise 1 simply misrepresents Christian ethical theories. Let’s grant premise 2.

What about premise 3? Is it morally impermissible for anyone to commit, cause, command, or condone, acts that violate our moral principles? My own view as a Christian ethicist is that “our” moral beliefs make absolutely no difference at all in whether or not an act is morally right or wrong. On the contrary, it is God’s will that makes such a difference and not mine. Indeed, even if premise 1 were correct, premise 3 would clearly be false (it would be false precisely because premise 1 was correct). So premise 3 simply begs the question against Christian views of morality by assuming that they are false. We arrive then at premise 4, which is actually a statement of the writer’s point of view on morality. Perhaps God’s commands in Scripture do violate the moral beliefs that a person has. This not morally significant if it is God’s will that determine what is moral or immoral. Premise 4, in that case, would be doing nothing more than telling us that some of us are morally mistaken, for we think that in some cases it is right to disobey God’s will. What Christian will embrace this claim?

Where, then, is this supposed contradiction that Christians must accept? The premises that are doing all the work, namely 1 – but most importantly premise 3, are simply not held by Christians and amount to begging the question by assuming that in spite of what Christians say, God’s will is not normative for morality, and that is that.

Ah, the crippling power of logic. I can see Christians running for the hills now.

[parfait]

So again , you'd only believe in God if he was helping everyone with every problemsv they got ?
Have you ever lost a Child , Gael ?! If I was to just believe in God and tell him F you when I didn't get my miracle , I'd given up long time ago. I lost not one but two sons. Instead of turning cold and say "Fuck this , I'm gonna believe in apes from now on", I believed even more. I realized that there is a reason behind everything that God does. One of my sons went through severe epilepsy from birth for three years till God finally took him home. Right there was my miracle that as bad as I wanted my son with me , I realized God chose what was best for him. So save your cancer ward speech. I've been through plenty of bad and good , but the bad hasn't made me stop believing in our creater. It's only made me and me belief stronger. I don't believe in any religion but I respect those who do. I only believe in God , the creator of us. You can deny him but sooner or later you will see the light.

There is no light, no life after death. Who lives and who dies are mainly about coincidences and luck. A shame about your kids, honestly. The whole point of believing in a God is that imakes our life on earth a little bit better - we tell ourself that this isn't all there is, that death isn't the end of it. It's a comforting thought. The world is a cruel place, filled to the brink of poverty, injustice and death. You obviously still don't get evolution at all, and true, there is a certain unforgiving nature to it. I get why people would like to think otherwise, but that is the reality of it. We're born out of nucleotides, basic chemical sequences, and live a pretty short life, then die. That's it.

Promise this....when you lose patients someday, and you WILL! don't ever ever be the doctor who has to break that news. If you had said this shit to me when my dad died, or my mom, or acted like a robot sharing it, I would have punched you in the face. PLENTY of doctors believe in God. And wow, science too.

One doesn't believe in science. Faith is the total opposite of how the scientific method works. I believe in making the most out of the minuscule time you have, and not wasting it on false hope and prayer. I choose not to live in a jaded fantasy world where everything works itself out, and even the kid who gets raped and sodomized daily by his uncle Larry, has a role in all of this. People live, people die. I promise you though, that when it all comes down to it, then I'd be the best possible to help better the odds.

[artist4perry]

So again , you'd only believe in God if he was helping everyone with every problemsv they got ?

Have you ever lost a Child , Gael ?! If I was to just believe in God and tell him F you when I didn't get my miracle , I'd given up long time ago. I lost not one but two sons. Instead of turning cold and say "Fuck this , I'm gonna believe in apes from now on", I believed even more. I realized that there is a reason behind everything that God does. One of my sons went through severe epilepsy from birth for three years till God finally took him home. Right there was my miracle that as bad as I wanted my son with me , I realized God chose what was best for him.
So save your cancer ward speech. I've been through plenty of bad and good , but the bad hasn't made me stop believing in our creater. It's only made me and me belief stronger.

I don't believe in any religion but I respect those who do. I only believe in God , the creator of us. You can deny him but sooner or later you will see the light.

Beshad, I am sorry for your losses, you never truly get over such a tragedy. i am glad you find a way to deal with it though.

[S2M]

Dave, looks like you need a remedial logic course, and heaps of remedial bible study.

My premise was that a religious person could not believe all four of my assertions without contradiction. And just by asserting three of them, negates the fourth(whatever one you are left with).

By the time you reach #4 and remember god wiped out an entire region/world with the flood there is evidence that god finds it acceptable for he himself to kill...but wait. OH! God gave us the commandment Thou shall not kill...Hmmm.

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

[conversationpc]

Dave, looks like you need a remedial logic course, and heaps of remedial bible study.

My premise was that a religious person could not believe all four of my assertions without contradiction. And just by asserting three of them, negates the fourth(whatever one you are left with).

By the time you reach #4 and remember god wiped out an entire region/world with the flood there is evidence that god finds it acceptable for he himself to kill...but wait. OH! God gave us the commandment Thou shall not kill...Hmmm.

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

The point was that it wasn't your premise to begin with and it wasn't even correct in its assumptions besides that.

[S2M]

Dave, looks like you need a remedial logic course, and heaps of remedial bible study.

My premise was that a religious person could not believe all four of my assertions without contradiction. And just by asserting three of them, negates the fourth(whatever one you are left with).

By the time you reach #4 and remember god wiped out an entire region/world with the flood there is evidence that god finds it acceptable for he himself to kill...but wait. OH! God gave us the commandment Thou shall not kill...Hmmm.

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

The point was that it wasn't your premise to begin with and it wasn't even correct in its assumptions besides that.

Have no idea what you are talking about. Excerpt from a paper I wrote in a philosophy course. A little bit of Raymond Bradley sprinkled in, but pretty much my thoughts as well. And as you, or nobody else alive wrote the bible, but quote it ad nauseum....I didn't think it was a problem. and neither did my college professor.

If my assumptions were incorrect....maybe you could educate me. I see you couldn't respond to my latest comment either.

[conversationpc]

Have no idea what you are talking about. Excerpt from a paper I wrote in a philosophy course. A little bit of Raymond Bradley sprinkled in, but pretty much my thoughts as well. And as you, or nobody else alive wrote the bible, but quote it ad nauseum....I didn't think it was a problem. and neither did my college professor.

If my assumptions were incorrect....maybe you could educate me. I see you couldn't respond to my latest comment either.

The four points you posted were lifted word for word and you didn't bother to post your source. If I were going to quote the Bible, I'd at least identify the source. Here's where I lifted mine from, which you apparently didn't read either, judging by your "limited responses".

http://www.beretta-online.com/wordpress ... /#more-314

[S2M]

Dave, looks like you need a remedial logic course, and heaps of remedial bible study.

My premise was that a religious person could not believe all four of my assertions without contradiction. And just by asserting three of them, negates the fourth(whatever one you are left with).

By the time you reach #4 and remember god wiped out an entire region/world with the flood there is evidence that god finds it acceptable for he himself to kill...but wait. OH! God gave us the commandment Thou shall not kill...Hmmm.

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

Dave....I'd be interested in your take on this....BTW, I'm citing myself. I hope that is clear...

[conversationpc]

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

God's commands would only be arbitrary if he doesn't have a reason to command one thing instead of another.

[RedWingFan]

Also, I can tell by your limited responses that you are one of those pious types that believes, 'It is right(moral) because god says it is'. But if you think about it. This proves god's commands are arbitrary. What if god had said, 'you know what? Murder is moral. You people may murder'. Then what? Gods commands are strictly arbitrary....

God's commands would only be arbitrary if he doesn't have a reason to command one thing instead of another.

Life would be so much simpler if Christians taught their kids about heaven and Christ. Muslims only blew themselves up to get to their paradise and non-believers taught their kids how restful their dirt naps will be. Can't we just end it there?