Vocal Questions??

[Deb]

Once and for all I would love to understand what some of these vocal things are that people talk about..........like headvoice? Half-step down? singing in full D? Resonance? difference between tone and timbre? etc.......

I was reading a comment under this video I posted and I have always wondered what exactly is a half or full step down? Or what is singing in a full D........or B or C for that matter? I use the term resonance when talking about a vocal sometimes and not sure I even know exactly what it is? Any knowledge from vocalists or just somebody that knows would be great. Examples would be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqd1JKO1SL8

......."one of the most hardest songs ever in full D...today they're singing it on a half-step"

[Saint John]

Great question, Deb! I know that standard tuning (E) is what most artists use. Doesn't make it the best or anything, just the most common. Artists like Stevie Ray Vaughn and Jimi Hendrix did virtually everything a half step down (Eb). GnR did it a lot as well. It gives a darker, bigger, fuller sound. Musicians often call it a "fatter" sound. That's all I have to offer and I'm not even 100% sure it's all correct! But I think/ hope it is!

[conversationpc]

Head voice is kinda between normal (chest) voice and falsetto. It's easier to demonstrate for me than it is to explain it. Perry, Gramm, and a lot of the great singers sang a lot in head voice. Guys like Robert Plant and the Bee Gees sang a lot of falsetto. Falsetto sounds a lot more nasal.

[Angel]

Head voice is kinda between normal (chest) voice and falsetto. It's easier to demonstrate for me than it is to explain it. Perry, Gramm, and a lot of the great singers sang a lot in head voice. Guys like Robert Plant and the Bee Gees sang a lot of falsetto. Falsetto sounds a lot more nasal.

Dave, could you please post an instructional video?

Thank you.

[Rick]

Once and for all I would love to understand what some of these vocal things are that people talk about..........like headvoice? Half-step down? singing in full D? Resonance? difference between tone and timbre? etc.......

I was reading a comment under this video I posted and I have always wondered what exactly is a half or full step down? Or what is singing in a full D........or B or C for that matter? I use the term resonance when talking about a vocal sometimes and not sure I even know exactly what it is? Any knowledge from vocalists or just somebody that knows would be great. Examples would be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqd1JKO1SL8

......."one of the most hardest songs ever in full D...today they're singing it on a half-step"

I'm not sure on this, but isn't a half step, say from B to B-flat? A full step from B to A?

"Head Voice" and "Falsetto" are different, and then there's the normal singing voice, which is "Chest Voice". The head voice resonates from the nasal and sinus cavities. Falsetto is the more airy vocal sound, where the vocal cords remain apart, and more air than sound is produced and is the weaker of the three. Your chest voice is your normal speaking and singing range. Falsetto and Head Voice are used to sing higher than your Chest Voice can reach.

[Aaron]

I can help with a couple of the questions.

A half step down refers to the original key a song was played/sang in versus it being played a half step, or a half note down. For example, if a song is played originally in the key of E, and the singer can't hit the high notes in that key, the band will drop down a half step to an E flat or F sharp. It means that every note played is half note below what they were played/sang originally. If you want to hear examples, listen to Journey's last tour with Arnel or Foreignors last tour with Kelly. When you listen to the songs and think crap, they don't sound as happy as before and they kinda suck, you're listening to a half step down. Songs a half step down lose their happy tone and sound more evil.

Head voice happens when the singer changes the volume in their mouth by opening or closing their month to make their head operate like a Helmholtz Resonator. It basically makes their head like an amplifier because the note they're singing resonates in the singers head. It adds volume and power when the singer does this. It sounds pretty figgin strong and cool.

Falsetto is when you change your voice using your throat muscles to hit higher notes than you can normally. Good singers can switch between normal voice and falsetto seamlessly giving the singer huge range. Steve Perry was one of the best ever at this. This is why we all think the sun rises and sets in his ass. A good example of falsetto voice is trying to talk like Mickey Mouse. Do Mickey Mouse and your doing falsetto. It also gives you a nasal tone and doesn't have the power of your normal voice or head voice.

How about tone and timbre? That's an area I'd like to learn more about too.

[slucero]

This is a pretty good read:

http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

[Rick]

This is a pretty good read:

http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

Change your avatar.

[Don]

Great question, Deb! I know that standard tuning (E) is what most artists use. Doesn't make it the best or anything, just the most common. Artists like Stevie Ray Vaughn and Jimi Hendrix did virtually everything a half step down (Eb). GnR did it a lot as well. It gives a darker, bigger, fuller sound. Musicians often call it a "fatter" sound. That's all I have to offer and I'm not even 100% sure it's all correct! But I think/ hope it is!

Coldplay are the kings of Eb.

[RedWingFan]

This is a pretty good read:

http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

Change your avatar.

Don't be scared of it Rick.

[Deb]

Thanks a bunch for the answers, some of it is making a little more sense. Keep it coming. And thanks too Dave, so Plant is more falsetto when he sings high and Perry is more head voice? I know nothing about music, except for knowing what I like to hear. Can't sing to save my life, but I find all this vocal stuff interesting. For instant, in that comment example somebody made, in my first post, what is a full D? Is that high? And going down a half step would that be a D flat? What is the difference between full and flat? Is that about pitch?

LOL, I knew this was the place to come for this stuff, I remember questioning what vibrato was a while back and thanks to people like SusieP explaining it, I now know.

[slucero]

This is a pretty good read:

http://www.fabricationshq.com/steve-per ... ebook.html

Change your avatar.

Don't be scared of it Rick.

WHo?

[Michigan Girl]

I can help with a couple of the questions.

A half step down refers to the original key a song was played/sang in versus it being played a half step, or a half note down. For example, if a song is played originally in the key of E, and the singer can't hit the high notes in that key, the band will drop down a half step to an E flat or F sharp. It means that every note played is half note below what they were played/sang originally. If you want to hear examples, listen to Journey's last tour with Arnel or Foreignors last tour with Kelly. When you listen to the songs and think crap, they don't sound as happy as before and they kinda suck, you're listening to a half step down. Songs a half step down lose their happy tone and sound more evil.

This made me laugh my, you know what, off!!
even though it's a perfect description/definition ...

[Saint John]

I can help with a couple of the questions.

A half step down refers to the original key a song was played/sang in versus it being played a half step, or a half note down. For example, if a song is played originally in the key of E, and the singer can't hit the high notes in that key, the band will drop down a half step to an E flat or F sharp. It means that every note played is half note below what they were played/sang originally. If you want to hear examples, listen to Journey's last tour with Arnel or Foreignors last tour with Kelly. When you listen to the songs and think crap, they don't sound as happy as before and they kinda suck, you're listening to a half step down. Songs a half step down lose their happy tone and sound more evil.

This made me laugh my, you know what, off!!
even though it's a perfect description/definition ...

Funny, I never once thought that at any of the 3 FTLOSM shows I saw.

[Michigan Girl]

I can help with a couple of the questions.

A half step down refers to the original key a song was played/sang in versus it being played a half step, or a half note down. For example, if a song is played originally in the key of E, and the singer can't hit the high notes in that key, the band will drop down a half step to an E flat or F sharp. It means that every note played is half note below what they were played/sang originally. If you want to hear examples, listen to Journey's last tour with Arnel or Foreignors last tour with Kelly. When you listen to the songs and think crap, they don't sound as happy as before and they kinda suck, you're listening to a half step down. Songs a half step down lose their happy tone and sound more evil.

This made me laugh my, you know what, off!!
even though it's a perfect description/definition ...

Funny, I never once thought that at any of the 3 FTLOSM shows I saw.

#1, it was Perry ...and
b) it doean't mean you can't still enjoy them ...don't tell me Faithfully wasn't a jolt to the system and expect
me to believe it!! Now, I can't speak for the Foreigner guys, but given the opportunity, I will be there and while enjoying
the show/singer, as I may ...I will notice if the songs are different *wink*

[Rick]

I can help with a couple of the questions.

A half step down refers to the original key a song was played/sang in versus it being played a half step, or a half note down. For example, if a song is played originally in the key of E, and the singer can't hit the high notes in that key, the band will drop down a half step to an E flat or F sharp. It means that every note played is half note below what they were played/sang originally. If you want to hear examples, listen to Journey's last tour with Arnel or Foreignors last tour with Kelly. When you listen to the songs and think crap, they don't sound as happy as before and they kinda suck, you're listening to a half step down. Songs a half step down lose their happy tone and sound more evil.

This made me laugh my, you know what, off!!
even though it's a perfect description/definition ...

Funny, I never once thought that at any of the 3 FTLOSM shows I saw.

#1, it was Perry ...and
b) it doean't mean you can't still enjoy them ...don't tell me Faithfully wasn't a jolt to the system and expect
me to believe it!! Now, I can't speak for the Foreigner guys, but given the opportunity, I will be there and while enjoying
the show/singer, as I may ...I will notice if the songs are different *wink*

[TRAGChick]

Here's an example of tuning down - you can hear how it gets "darker and more sinister".
Does this help, Deb?

It's very short - but I LOVE this Movie!
Victor / Victoria ~ fast-forward to 6:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNxmz55bnak

[Saint John]

#1, it was Perry

This default response might work in the Loon community, but in the rational, thinking community it doesn't mean shit.

it doesn't mean you can't still enjoy them

Aaron clearly stated that "they kinda suck" and you agreed, so I really don't see how you can enjoy songs that you think suck.

don't tell me Faithfully wasn't a jolt to the system and expect me to believe it!!

You're right. That's one song that doesn't come across well tuned down.

[Michigan Girl]

Thanks for not pointing out that I misspelled doesn't ...he'll never notice it in his current state!!

While on vaca, Carnival had a fabulous Filipino band playing every night in one of the
clubs ...they played everything from Motown to Disco to RNR and were incredible!! I found myself
drawn to them almost every night. Then one night they threw in Night Fever and they were
so Alvin and the Chipmunks awful, I had to cover my ears ...doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the rest!!

That song sucked ...wrong key!!

[Saint John]

Thanks for not pointing out that I misspelled doesn't

Not only that, but I fixed it. See, Arnel has made me a better person.

While on vaca, Carnival had a fabulous Filipino band playing every night in one of the
clubs ...they played everything from Motown to Disco to RNR and were incredible!! I found myself
drawn to them almost every night. Then one night they threw in Night Fever and they were
so Alvin and the Chipmunks awful, I had to cover my ears ...doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the rest!!

That song sucked ...wrong key!!

Point taken.

[Michigan Girl]

Thanks for not pointing out that I misspelled doesn't

Not only that, but I fixed it. See, Arnel has made me a better person.

aaaahhaaaa ...you did!!
Thank you!!

[Deb]

I can help with a couple of the questions.

A half step down refers to the original key a song was played/sang in versus it being played a half step, or a half note down. For example, if a song is played originally in the key of E, and the singer can't hit the high notes in that key, the band will drop down a half step to an E flat or F sharp. It means that every note played is half note below what they were played/sang originally. If you want to hear examples, listen to Journey's last tour with Arnel or Foreignors last tour with Kelly. When you listen to the songs and think crap, they don't sound as happy as before and they kinda suck, you're listening to a half step down. Songs a half step down lose their happy tone and sound more evil.

Head voice happens when the singer changes the volume in their mouth by opening or closing their month to make their head operate like a Helmholtz Resonator. It basically makes their head like an amplifier because the note they're singing resonates in the singers head. It adds volume and power when the singer does this. It sounds pretty figgin strong and cool.

Falsetto is when you change your voice using your throat muscles to hit higher notes than you can normally. Good singers can switch between normal voice and falsetto seamlessly giving the singer huge range. Steve Perry was one of the best ever at this. This is why we all think the sun rises and sets in his ass. A good example of falsetto voice is trying to talk like Mickey Mouse. Do Mickey Mouse and your doing falsetto. It also gives you a nasal tone and doesn't have the power of your normal voice or head voice.

How about tone and timbre? That's an area I'd like to learn more about too.

Falsetto? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5HavjNLuo

Thanks for the info. Does anybody have examples of a band doing a song in original key then down a half step or full step or more. Is it musically and vocally or just vocally?

I.e., is this song done 1/2 step or full step down or not at all? To me it doesn't sound any darker, maybe a smidgeon slower? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnWKxaDKBHI and 20 years later..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjfd5yY2Y5s&feature=fvst

Anybody have a Journey example? And anybody know what resonance is when pertaining to a vocal? And thanks Nora.

[Saint John]

Anybody have a Journey example?

FTLOSM shows versus anything from the Frontiers tour would normally be fair, but it's hard to tell if the sound is different or if it's the horrible sound of the keys and not-quite-as-good playing of the other instruments. But vocally, it's fair to compare.

[kgdjpubs]

Thanks a bunch for the answers, some of it is making a little more sense. Keep it coming. And thanks too Dave, so Plant is more falsetto when he sings high and Perry is more head voice?

Just to recap, there isn't a tremendous amount of difference between chest voice and head voice, other than the pitch. If you start at a low note, and increase the pitch as far as your voice will go, you will likely find a bit of a break where the transition isn't very smooth...then it will pick up again smooth. That break is the changeover between chest voice and head voice. It varies between people, and with training, can become indistinguishable.

Falsetto is totally different. If you sing a high-pitched very soft note, you are likely in falsetto. One thing to remember however....falsetto isn't just high notes, even though that's what it is mainly used for. You can sing it low-pitched, and for that reason, there is a fair amount of overlap between head voice and falsetto, meaning you can hit the note both ways. I've actually heard that with training, you can hit higher notes in head voice than in falsetto. Either way, the difference between head voice and falsetto is HOW you sing the notes. One easy way to tell is that you lose a lot of depth in the voice when you go falsetto. It's not perfectly reliable though, because of the difference in depth of voices (ie Hugo is very thin normally, and he's in head voice most of the time). Perry was about 99% head voice, and I'm not sure I've heard any falsetto from Arnel or Augeri.

Examples show it off better than words will, so...

here's an example of the same note hit in falsetto, and then without falsetto....the "keep on" in Jimmy Barnes' rendition of Jackie Wilson's Higher and Higher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffi06Gb_MQQ
0:44 to 0:46....falsetto
1:24 to 1:27....head voice
notice the lack of depth on the first section

The best-known example of falsetto is Bee Gees. Staying Alive is basically ALL falsetto.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_bPwi3pwAY

Here's another full song done in falsetto by John Farnham. Might be the only falsetto I've ever heard him do.
http://www.amazon.com/33-1-3-John-Farnham/dp/B00004YLKB --> listen to the I've Been Lonely For So Long soundclip. You'll notice a big change from his normal voice.

Perry didn't use falsetto much at all. You'll hear it in some of the very light notes mainly in the early recordings--ie the high stuff over the guitar solo in Wheel in the Sky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGbVoDVWZsc -- Wheel in the Sky starting about 2:44 to about 2:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvikzJHDDY -- much later Perry falsetto starting at 3:20 to about 3:28

clear as mud?

[Deb]

Examples show it off better than words will, so...

here's an example of the same note hit in falsetto, and then without falsetto....the "keep on" in Jimmy Barnes' rendition of Jackie Wilson's Higher and Higher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffi06Gb_MQQ
0:44 to 0:46....falsetto
1:24 to 1:27....head voice
notice the lack of depth on the first section


clear as mud?

Perfect! Great example, thank you! Like his voice on this one too.

LOL, ok that is head voice vs. falsetto.....and vibrato I get now. How about the rest.............

[kgdjpubs]

Falsetto? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5HavjNLuo

In case it was a serious question, yes, that is falsetto.

Thanks for the info. Does anybody have examples of a band doing a song in original key then down a half step or full step or more. Is it musically and vocally or just vocally?

Here's an example of tuning down
Fair Warning - I'll Be There
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC8b7FVTsVw --> studio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKYjy9zJvXw --> live in Japan 2010


Here's a great example of key changes....but going up, not down. Johnny Cook is probably one of the best tenors ever (and highest tenors, for that matter), but stayed in gospel and never branched out into pop. He'd probably give Perry a run for his money as far as pure range goes. One of his "favorite" things to do was to keep kicking the key up over the course of the song. Listen to the chorus progression starting at 1:20. He does the chorus in 3 separate keys. It's pretty obvious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kMPVeuOOM

I.e., is this song done 1/2 step or full step down or not at all? To me it doesn't sound any darker, maybe a smidgeon slower? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnWKxaDKBHI and 20 years later..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjfd5yY2Y5s&feature=fvst

It's definitely down. How much, I don't know. Listen to the vocal lines back to back and you can obviously tell he is singing at a lower pitch on the live one.

[Deb]

So when people talk about tuned down a half or full step, etc.......they are talking pretty much about vocal pitch, not the music?

[Rick]

So when people talk about tuned down a half or full step, etc.......they are talking pretty much about vocal pitch, not the music?

Both. That way the singer stays on key.

[slucero]

So when people talk about tuned down a half or full step, etc.......they are talking pretty much about vocal pitch, not the music?

No its the key the music is played in... If the song is written in E... then its root key is E. If the band plays a half step down then they change the root key to Eflat... all the instruments adjust accordingly... as does the singer...

This is the best way to visualize it... http://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resourc ... /index.htm

play the piano "E"... then the "D#" (which is Eflat).... then y ou can hear the difference...

[Saint John]

Listen to the chorus progression starting at 1:20. He does the chorus in 3 separate keys. It's pretty obvious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kMPVeuOOM

I'm not big on glass shattering notes and don't like much of Perry's pre-Escape stuff, but that was just fucking awesome. Just incredible. He sang with sincerity, emotion and at an astounding vocal leverl. Wow. That's one of the best vocals I've ever heard. Thank you for posting that!