Fallout from Brad Delp's Suicide Continues

[Saint John]

stayed up for days, drank, got high, broke shit

You were depressed in college?

You prick ... good point! Man, if people on here could see me back then they'd realize that I am a "saint" compared to the days of being thrown off campus, out of school and all of the other unspeakable shenanigans.

[Rhiannon]

Just as every mans pecker length and every womans boob size is subjective, ... so is one's strength of character... and chemical makeup...

Yep. There's a LOT more that goes into being human, individually human, than what we can possibly experience in one lifetime. No two stories are alike; that goes for every minute detail that weaves together all six billion of us, and the billions before us. If everyone were identical with the same functions, faculties, capacities, and experiences... it would be different.

[bluejeangirl76]

Fuck me SJ. I'm not going to war with you on this again, but you clearly pain yourself as completely ignorant in reagrds to depression and what it does to a person. You simply cannot comprehend that it alters your mind. It puts you in another reality altogether and selfish has NOTHING to do with it. Please don't ever let me hear you say that again. EVER.

People with depression - severe or not - can fight the urges of self harm, but that battle is not always winnable, nor is it something you can just cast aside. It goes when it is ready to go and sometimes that can last a lifetime. It comes and goes and he did NOT quit on anyone. Dude, I hate you saying that. Deporession takes control of your hormones, your mind, chemicals within your body.

If you want to discuss more, I'll happily do so via PM. Otherwise please don't comment on what you know little of.

Spot on Drew. Dan is a good dude, but none of his over the top comments really surprise me. My life experience tells me that unless someone has been personally afflicted with depression or had someone very close to them afflicted with depression that they can never really wrap their head around what it all means. By very definition, a person who is clinically depressed (which Delp CLEARLY was) isn't someone who is having rational thoughts. Hindsight is a great thing to Monday Morning QB with, but not everyone has that luxury. In my opinion, raking a guy over the coals for taking his own life is a sad commentary on one's inability to have compassion for what is a very sad story. I'm not suggesting that it hasn't been horribly sad for the loved ones that Delp left behind, but give the poor bastard a break!

I agree. This is not a knock at Dan, by the way... he's certainly entitled to his opinions as much as anyone and may have reasons for feeling that way that I don't know or would understand... I'm speaking generally...

I just think that, no matter what the topic, depression, or anything else, it's much much easier for people who have not directly had an experience with whatever the topic is being discussed OR had a different experience/outcome with something to pass judgment or draw conclusions. We see something as clear-cut, plain simple answer, this or that is wrong and that is the way it is because we haven't experienced it, we just know what we think should happen, in a perfect world, instead of minding our business and accepting that we just may not have all of the information about something.

PERCEPTION is reality. What we perceive to be the case becomes what *is* the case. And that's where trouble starts. And the bottom line is, we rarely if ever have or can obtain ALL of the facts. We just love to sit around judging and concluding without investigating all sides. The dreaded media is the best show of that. And in this case, the man is gone, so we really will not ever know what was truly going on in his mind or in his world.

[Rhiannon]

PERCEPTION is reality. What we perceive to be the case becomes what *is* the case. And that's where trouble starts. And the bottom line is, we rarely if ever have or can obtain ALL of the facts. We just love to sit around judging and concluding without investigating all sides. The dreaded media is the best show of that. And in this case, the man is gone, so we really will not ever know what was truly going on in his mind or in his world.

Agreed.

To add... and trying not to get too deep or fringed here either... perception is just as individual to us as our fingerprints. Our species has evolved a sense of general norm, right vs. wrong, and so on. But even that varies from culture to culture just as perception varies from person to person. Reality as we perceive it is itself an illusion. The full moon on the horizon effect, just on the macro scale. You wouldn't be you if you were someone else, to be redundantly obvious. So what you perceive as "norm", what you believe, your religion, etc... is by nature (whether you believe in reincarnation, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, or Santa Claus or Darwin) a product of being born Canadian instead of Laotian or Taoist instead of Christian.

Bottom line is, it's not our damn business what Brad Delp did with his body. Or why. As my great-grandma used to say, "don't try to sweep someone else's porch with your own broom while your kitchen sits muddy." But, that's also just how some of us are wired to be too, and it's just another fascinating facet of what makes us beautifully human.

[Ehwmatt]

But he WAS conscious of his decisions and their consequences. The writing of the letters shows as much.

I think we've all entertained thoughts of what it would be like to just not cope with the pressures and lows of life at various points, even if we haven't gotten as specific as to how we'd kill ourselves or whatever. I just can't imagine doing that to any of my family, especially without giving them a chance to say goodbye.

Like I said, what I gather from these stories about Delp is that he was a pussy his entire life. I get the image of a guy who let people walk all over him over a 50+ year life. Even in death, he let those same people walk all over him by just resigning to taking a gas nap rather than risk a "dreaded" confrontation to assert himself. If you are unhappy in your job/band, leave and find something else. If your alleged fiancee gets deepdicked by another dude, kick that bitch to the curb for the utter disrespect and move the fuck on. No wonder the guy was unhappy. Being a pushover is no way to live life - not with your friends, spouses, children, parents, or coworkers.

I really wish we could try a social experiment: Instead of coddling and pitying these types of cases in the media, we should universally decry these acts and their perpetrators as pussies, quitters, cowards, and weaklings. I guaran-fucking-tee you that the number of suicides linked to depression (and probably any other cause) would exponentially decrease. Think of it as a parallel to law enforcement not wanting to publicize the name/face of criminals who commit the most heinous/notorious crimes/terrorist acts... let's cut down on the inspiration for copycats.

To quote Dan, "When you get lemons, you make lemonade... you don't grill out in the fucking bathroom!"

[bluejeangirl76]

As my great-grandma used to say, "don't try to sweep someone else's porch with your own broom while your kitchen sits muddy."

I love love love it.

[Melissa]

Sad to read. And yeah while I tend to lean towards the "it's selfish" opinion of suicide also, I also know that someone must be in such a deep, dark place in order for them to feel like that was their last and only option. But yes it does cause immense pain and suffering for their loved ones for the rest of their lives.

And all of that stuff coming out in media is really sad, because it should remain private. Just like any other private matter between people that should remain private. I hate stories like this because then you get all the judge and jury people coming out of the woodwork like they know anything about the situation. Just like all the judging seen when other stories come out in the media, like celebrity drug stories, or affair stories, or abuse stories, etc. How do you know what's going on in someone's life that made them become addicted to drugs or alcohol? How do you know what their demons are? How do you know that some person who has an affair didn't do so because they were treated like dog shit behind closed doors by the supposed "poor" spouse who got cheated on? Yet stuff like all of that gets judged too by people who think they know a damn thing about anyone else's lives. Those things shouldn't be judged either if people think suicide is something to not be judged. You don't know why people make the mistakes they make, or do the things they do. Only those involved know why.

Anyway, I feel sorry for all who survive him who have to endure this stuff on top of what they already are by losing someone they love, and especially at that person's own hand. We lost a friend to suicide years ago, and it was a huge shock because he always seemed like the happiest person, had a great sense of humor, made everyone around him laugh and smile all the time. No one could tell from the outside the demons he was struggling with.

[Michigan Girl]

Very deep and personal thread ...didn't know quite what to say, but Melly
seems to be my emotional voice ...good stuff, Melly ...

[brywool]

“What happened to Bradley, it’s not Tom’s fault, it wasn’t the music industry’s fault, it was not my fault,’’ she said. “The responsibility for what happened and the reasons for what happened lie with Bradley. After the fact, people think they can piece together an answer or blame. I can’t understand that.’’

[Saint John]

“I take complete and sole responsibility for my present situation. I have lost my desire to live,” he wrote. The note also includes instructions on how to contact his fiancée: “Unfortunately she is totally unaware of what I have done.” -Brad Delp

Assuming "responsibility" is almost certainly a concession that he knows what he's doing is wrong and is going to affect those that love and care about him. Yet he did it anyway. The apologists and enablers in this thread are running on fumes at this point. Just admit it that what he did was wrong and that he knew it. At the very least, his case seems pretty black and white.

[kgdjpubs]

Like I said, what I gather from these stories about Delp is that he was a pussy his entire life. I get the image of a guy who let people walk all over him over a 50+ year life. Even in death, he let those same people walk all over him by just resigning to taking a gas nap rather than risk a "dreaded" confrontation to assert himself. If you are unhappy in your job/band, leave and find something else. If your alleged fiancee gets deepdicked by another dude, kick that bitch to the curb for the utter disrespect and move the fuck on. No wonder the guy was unhappy. Being a pushover is no way to live life - not with your friends, spouses, children, parents, or coworkers.

I agree with this, but it's easier for some people than others. More often than not, the fear of the confrontation is worse than the confrontation itself.

I really wish we could try a social experiment: Instead of coddling and pitying these types of cases in the media, we should universally decry these acts and their perpetrators as pussies, quitters, cowards, and weaklings. I guaran-fucking-tee you that the number of suicides linked to depression (and probably any other cause) would exponentially decrease. Think of it as a parallel to law enforcement not wanting to publicize the name/face of criminals who commit the most heinous/notorious crimes/terrorist acts... let's cut down on the inspiration for copycats.

I'm not sure you exactly understand depression in the true sense of the word. A fair number of people have suffered through some short version of being depressed. I lost someone once and there were times I wasn't sure how I was going to get through the next ten minutes....getting through the rest of the day wasn't even considered. It was simply unlike anything I have ever experienced, and it's almost impossible to explain if you haven't experienced it for yourself. For about a week, I was very raw emotionally. Like most people though, I pushed on and eventually, life returned to "normal". Did I think of any drastic solutions? No, but I realized that it will eventually pass.

For people with chronic depression, the problem is that it takes a lot longer to get back to normal. Regardless of how strong you are, everyone has a breaking point. Once you have gone for six months or maybe even years at this stage of trying to get through the next day or the next 10 minutes with no end in sight, you eventually wear down. At this stage, you are not thinking normally--trust me. You might be able to pull over a facade so that most people won't realize it, especially if you are a private person normally. I can't even imagine the burden after months to years of feeling this way. I consider myself a strong person, but at some point, I honestly don't know what I would do.

For someone in that state, you can ridicule and try to embarrass them all you want. It will NOT work. When you have someone that is that depressed, emotionally compromised, and barely able to push through with normal life activities, I can guarantee you that they could care less what anyone else thinks of them. Been there, done that. It doesn't work. You'd be surprised the number of things that I told people that I would never say under normal circumstances. Think of going through life where you can say anything you want without fear of the consequences, and couple that with very raw emotions which makes you have a "hair trigger". That's pretty much the state you are in with depression. If anything, your theory would do the exact opposite and increase the number of suicides as it would be yet another thing weighing down on you. That is the LAST thing you need in that situation.

It's very sad for anyone who has to deal with deep depression and suicides. It's hard on the person and the family. Don't ask why someone would be so selfish to do that. Ask what happened to make them think they had no other choice.

[steveo777]

“I take complete and sole responsibility for my present situation. I have lost my desire to live,” he wrote. The note also includes instructions on how to contact his fiancée: “Unfortunately she is totally unaware of what I have done.” -Brad Delp

Assuming "responsibility" is almost certainly a concession that he knows what he's doing is wrong and is going to affect those that love and care about him. Yet he did it anyway. The apologists and enablers in this thread are running on fumes at this point. Just admit it that what he did was wrong and that he knew it. At the very least, his case seems pretty black and white.

Ok, so right or wrong, it looks like Brad accepted responsibility. Why the axe to grind?

[RedWingFan]

“I take complete and sole responsibility for my present situation. I have lost my desire to live,” he wrote. The note also includes instructions on how to contact his fiancée: “Unfortunately she is totally unaware of what I have done.” -Brad Delp

Assuming "responsibility" is almost certainly a concession that he knows what he's doing is wrong and is going to affect those that love and care about him. Yet he did it anyway. The apologists and enablers in this thread are running on fumes at this point. Just admit it that what he did was wrong and that he knew it. At the very least, his case seems pretty black and white.

Dan, clinical depression is a disorder of the brain. Same with Parkinson's disease. I suppose your prescription for that would be to relax and stop shaking? I mean seriously how hard is that? Buck up and hold still right?

They both involve lack of dopamine for one reason or another.

The pastor of my old church suffered from clinical depression as well as severe migraines. He was happily married with children and grandchildren. A few years ago he drove to and parked in the lot of a nearby police station and blew his brains out. He did it there because he didn't want any of his family discovering him or have a memory of him lying dead in their home.

To claim that people like this are selfish and don't care about their loved ones is ridiculous and short sighted. You may think you can relate to what their feeling. But you don't and neither do I, thankfully.

[Saint John]

“I take complete and sole responsibility for my present situation. I have lost my desire to live,” he wrote. The note also includes instructions on how to contact his fiancée: “Unfortunately she is totally unaware of what I have done.” -Brad Delp

Assuming "responsibility" is almost certainly a concession that he knows what he's doing is wrong and is going to affect those that love and care about him. Yet he did it anyway. The apologists and enablers in this thread are running on fumes at this point. Just admit it that what he did was wrong and that he knew it. At the very least, his case seems pretty black and white.

Ok, so right or wrong, it looks like Brad accepted responsibility. Why the axe to grind?

Because excusing what he did, and calling it anything other than the cowardice act that it was, might prevent someone else from keeping up the fight. Look, no one is saying this isn't hard ... really hard ... excruciatingly hard. We're saying that the answer isn't suicide. And it's more responsible to err on the side that those that commit these acts are wrong than it is to somehow justify it. Because for some, this will become a learned copycat behavior. By not giving these folks a free pass, more people will seek help, more people will be less likely to consider suicide and more lives will be saved. You're dismissed.

[Behshad]

Edit: My contributions in this thread are over, per Andrew's request. But I had to have a say.

you're drawn to this thread , like parfait is to a gas station bathroom !

[conversationpc]

Edit: My contributions in this thread are over, per Andrew's request. But I had to have a say.

you're drawn to this thread , like parfait is to a gas station bathroom !

[Enigma869]

The apologists and enablers in this thread are running on fumes at this point. Just admit it that what he did was wrong and that he knew it. At the very least, his case seems pretty black and white.

Dude...you need to get a fucking grip. I don't recall one person in this entire thread saying that what he did was correct. Who the fuck would ever suggest such a thing. Listen...you don't have to be a fucking brain surgeon to connect the dots and come to the conclusion that Delp committed the ultimate selfish act. That said, people who come on message boards and proclaim from the mountain top that they're experts in mental illness look like nitwits. I'm blessed that I've never had to confront such an issue in my life. In fact, I personally believe that medical professionals are FAR too quick to diagnose such conditions. When I was a kid, there was no such condition as "ADD", and being "hyperactive" wasn't a medical condition that needed to be treated with drugs. My parents simply made me lay off the sugar. Having said all of that, say what you want about what Delp knew and how lucid the notes he left behind were. It doesn't change the fact that there is compelling evidence (the dead body is your first clue) that the guy wasn't right! I would never justify such an act by anyone, but just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

[Don]

[Enigma869]

Dan, clinical depression is a disorder of the brain. Same with Parkinson's disease. I suppose your prescription for that would be to relax and stop shaking? I mean seriously how hard is that? Buck up and hold still right?

Brilliant response, RWF! Unfortunately, some simply don't recognize that depression, alcoholism, et. al. are actually diseases. There is enough medical evidence that suggests not all of us are wired the same (even though some would have you believe otherwise). Dave Duerson (who was a defensive back on the 1985 Super Bowl winning Bears team) just shot himself through the heart a couple of days ago, and by all accounts, everyone claims that he was the happiest guy on the planet and nobody has any explanation for how or why something like this happened. Luckily, Duerson donated his brain (and my understanding is that he wrote about donating his brain in a note that he left behind) to medical research, and perhaps they can come up with some explanation for why someone reaches this point while most (thankfully) would never even consider it.

[steveo777]

Dan, clinical depression is a disorder of the brain. Same with Parkinson's disease. I suppose your prescription for that would be to relax and stop shaking? I mean seriously how hard is that? Buck up and hold still right?

Brilliant response, RWF! Unfortunately, some simply don't recognize that depression, alcoholism, et. al. are actually diseases. There is enough medical evidence that suggests not all of us are wired the same (even though some would have you believe otherwise). Dave Duerson (who was a defensive back on the 1985 Super Bowl winning Bears team) just shot himself through the heart a couple of days ago, and by all accounts, everyone claims that he was the happiest guy on the planet and nobody has any explanation for how or why something like this happened. Luckily, Duerson donated his brain (and my understanding is that he wrote about donating his brain in a note that he left behind) to medical research, and perhaps they can come up with some explanation for why someone reaches this point while most (thankfully) would never even consider it.

That also explains why some Vietnam Vets were able to suck it up and get well, while others remain fucked up wrecks. Mental illness is just not a "one size fits all" deal. I've always believed that until one lives in the afflicted one's shoes, one has no idea what is "real" to that person, so best not to judge.

[Saint John]

just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

Show me where he sought help? Show me where he confided in loved ones and leaned on them? Show me where he went to a support group? He didn't exhaust any resources, let alone all of them. He went from A to Z without any real effort. The guy exemplified weakness for 25+ years and it's pretty well documented. Some psychiatrist or corner doctor gave him Xanax and told him to go home. Sitting in your basement and popping pills doesn't seem like any sort of effort to me. That's a bullshit prescription and, along with the "we have no idea what he's going through" mentality," one that leads to a guy thinking it's ok to take his life. It's not, and your bullshit line of reasoning and refusal to call on people to keep fighting no matter what is only going to cause more people to think it's ok to off themselves. All they have to do is write a few notes, show the courtesy of making sure their family members aren't around and it's go time. I marvel at the fact that these people always do it alone, too. They can't face their loved ones and pull the trigger because they know they're taking the shameful route. Keep enabling though. Lindsay Lohan is probably next and she's counting on you to make sure her legacy is that of a pained girl. One that we "couldn't possibly know what she's going through." Well I do ... withdrawal from drugs and a pity party over fucking up her 5 million dollar a movie career! And she'll get the same amount of sympathy from me as Brad Delp when she cashes in. None.

[Behshad]

just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

Show me where he sought help? Show me where he confided in loved ones and leaned on them? Show me where he went to a support group? He didn't exhaust any resources, let alone all of them. He went from A to Z without any real effort. The guy exemplified weakness for 25+ years and it's pretty well documented. Some psychiatrist or corner doctor gave him Xanax and told him to go home. Sitting in your basement and popping pills doesn't seem like any sort of effort to me. That's a bullshit prescription and, along with the "we have no idea what he's going through" mentality," one that leads to a guy thinking it's ok to take his life. It's not, and your bullshit line of reasoning and refusal to call on people to keep fighting no matter what is only going to cause more people to think it's ok to off themselves. All they have to do is write a few notes, show the courtesy of making sure their family members aren't around and it's go time. I marvel at the fact that these people always do it alone, too. They can't face their loved ones and pull the trigger because they know they're taking the shameful route. Keep enabling though. Lindsay Lohan is probably next and she's counting on you to make sure her legacy is that of a pained girl. One that we "couldn't possibly know what she's going through." Well I do ... withdrawal from drugs and a pity party over fucking up her 5 million dollar a movie career! And she'll get the same amount of sympathy from me as Brad Delp when she cashes in. None.

Did you ever think that maybe just maybe he didnt pay attention to the owners manual for the grill " DO NOT USE INDOORS" ?? Well, did you ???

[steveo777]

just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

Show me where he sought help? Show me where he confided in loved ones and leaned on them? Show me where he went to a support group? He didn't exhaust any resources, let alone all of them. He went from A to Z without any real effort. The guy exemplified weakness for 25+ years and it's pretty well documented. Some psychiatrist or corner doctor gave him Xanax and told him to go home. Sitting in your basement and popping pills doesn't seem like any sort of effort to me. That's a bullshit prescription and, along with the "we have no idea what he's going through" mentality," one that leads to a guy thinking it's ok to take his life. It's not, and your bullshit line of reasoning and refusal to call on people to keep fighting no matter what is only going to cause more people to think it's ok to off themselves. All they have to do is write a few notes, show the courtesy of making sure their family members aren't around and it's go time. I marvel at the fact that these people always do it alone, too. They can't face their loved ones and pull the trigger because they know they're taking the shameful route. Keep enabling though. Lindsay Lohan is probably next and she's counting on you to make sure her legacy is that of a pained girl. One that we "couldn't possibly know what she's going through." Well I do ... withdrawal from drugs and a pity party over fucking up her 5 million dollar a movie career! And she'll get the same amount of sympathy from me as Brad Delp when she cashes in. None.

Did you ever think that maybe just maybe he didnt pay attention to the owners manual for the grill " DO NOT USE INDOORS" ?? Well, did you ???

Was that your monthly attempt at being funnay?

[Behshad]

just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

Show me where he sought help? Show me where he confided in loved ones and leaned on them? Show me where he went to a support group? He didn't exhaust any resources, let alone all of them. He went from A to Z without any real effort. The guy exemplified weakness for 25+ years and it's pretty well documented. Some psychiatrist or corner doctor gave him Xanax and told him to go home. Sitting in your basement and popping pills doesn't seem like any sort of effort to me. That's a bullshit prescription and, along with the "we have no idea what he's going through" mentality," one that leads to a guy thinking it's ok to take his life. It's not, and your bullshit line of reasoning and refusal to call on people to keep fighting no matter what is only going to cause more people to think it's ok to off themselves. All they have to do is write a few notes, show the courtesy of making sure their family members aren't around and it's go time. I marvel at the fact that these people always do it alone, too. They can't face their loved ones and pull the trigger because they know they're taking the shameful route. Keep enabling though. Lindsay Lohan is probably next and she's counting on you to make sure her legacy is that of a pained girl. One that we "couldn't possibly know what she's going through." Well I do ... withdrawal from drugs and a pity party over fucking up her 5 million dollar a movie career! And she'll get the same amount of sympathy from me as Brad Delp when she cashes in. None.

Did you ever think that maybe just maybe he didnt pay attention to the owners manual for the grill " DO NOT USE INDOORS" ?? Well, did you ???

Was that your monthly attempt at being funnay?

Was that your monthly , I mean daily attempt at being a douche ?

[steveo777]

just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

Show me where he sought help? Show me where he confided in loved ones and leaned on them? Show me where he went to a support group? He didn't exhaust any resources, let alone all of them. He went from A to Z without any real effort. The guy exemplified weakness for 25+ years and it's pretty well documented. Some psychiatrist or corner doctor gave him Xanax and told him to go home. Sitting in your basement and popping pills doesn't seem like any sort of effort to me. That's a bullshit prescription and, along with the "we have no idea what he's going through" mentality," one that leads to a guy thinking it's ok to take his life. It's not, and your bullshit line of reasoning and refusal to call on people to keep fighting no matter what is only going to cause more people to think it's ok to off themselves. All they have to do is write a few notes, show the courtesy of making sure their family members aren't around and it's go time. I marvel at the fact that these people always do it alone, too. They can't face their loved ones and pull the trigger because they know they're taking the shameful route. Keep enabling though. Lindsay Lohan is probably next and she's counting on you to make sure her legacy is that of a pained girl. One that we "couldn't possibly know what she's going through." Well I do ... withdrawal from drugs and a pity party over fucking up her 5 million dollar a movie career! And she'll get the same amount of sympathy from me as Brad Delp when she cashes in. None.

Did you ever think that maybe just maybe he didnt pay attention to the owners manual for the grill " DO NOT USE INDOORS" ?? Well, did you ???

Was that your monthly attempt at being funnay?

Was that your monthly , I mean daily attempt at being a douche ?

I asked you a question first, dickhole.
Only car salesmen answer questions with questions.

[Behshad]

just saying that everyone needs to suck it up and deal simply doesn't work for everyone the way you think it should!

Show me where he sought help? Show me where he confided in loved ones and leaned on them? Show me where he went to a support group? He didn't exhaust any resources, let alone all of them. He went from A to Z without any real effort. The guy exemplified weakness for 25+ years and it's pretty well documented. Some psychiatrist or corner doctor gave him Xanax and told him to go home. Sitting in your basement and popping pills doesn't seem like any sort of effort to me. That's a bullshit prescription and, along with the "we have no idea what he's going through" mentality," one that leads to a guy thinking it's ok to take his life. It's not, and your bullshit line of reasoning and refusal to call on people to keep fighting no matter what is only going to cause more people to think it's ok to off themselves. All they have to do is write a few notes, show the courtesy of making sure their family members aren't around and it's go time. I marvel at the fact that these people always do it alone, too. They can't face their loved ones and pull the trigger because they know they're taking the shameful route. Keep enabling though. Lindsay Lohan is probably next and she's counting on you to make sure her legacy is that of a pained girl. One that we "couldn't possibly know what she's going through." Well I do ... withdrawal from drugs and a pity party over fucking up her 5 million dollar a movie career! And she'll get the same amount of sympathy from me as Brad Delp when she cashes in. None.

Did you ever think that maybe just maybe he didnt pay attention to the owners manual for the grill " DO NOT USE INDOORS" ?? Well, did you ???

Was that your monthly attempt at being funnay?

Was that your monthly , I mean daily attempt at being a douche ?

I asked you a question first, dickhole.
Only car salesmen answer questions with questions.

[Saint John]

Unfortunately, some simply don't recognize that depression, alcoholism, et. al. are actually diseases.

I'll tackle alcoholism. It's not a disease and that's a fact. If I put a beer in front of someone they have 2 choices ... to drink it or not. Period. It's a question of willpower. Some may have more than others and some may have the tendency to crave it more, but, in the end, you always have a choice in the matter. Always and without exception. Unlike cancer ... which is a disease.

Dave Duerson (who was a defensive back on the 1985 Super Bowl winning Bears team) just shot himself through the heart a couple of days ago, and by all accounts, everyone claims that he was the happiest guy on the planet

Dave Duerson was an angry asshole for the better part of 10 years, John. And I bet this is why:

"Duerson had other troubles. There were financial woes, a marriage breakup, pieces of wreckage that show up on the sad résumés of many suicide victims."

The guy quit, man. He took the easy way out, too. People like you have been giving him an out and he finally took it. Congrats.

[Joe Vana]

Fuck me SJ. I'm not going to war with you on this again, but you clearly pain yourself as completely ignorant in reagrds to depression and what it does to a person. You simply cannot comprehend that it alters your mind. It puts you in another reality altogether and selfish has NOTHING to do with it. Please don't ever let me hear you say that again. EVER.

People with depression - severe or not - can fight the urges of self harm, but that battle is not always winnable, nor is it something you can just cast aside. It goes when it is ready to go and sometimes that can last a lifetime. It comes and goes and he did NOT quit on anyone. Dude, I hate you saying that. Deporession takes control of your hormones, your mind, chemicals within your body.

If you want to discuss more, I'll happily do so via PM. Otherwise please don't comment on what you know little of.

Spot on Drew. Dan is a good dude, but none of his over the top comments really surprise me. My life experience tells me that unless someone has been personally afflicted with depression or had someone very close to them afflicted with depression that they can never really wrap their head around what it all means. By very definition, a person who is clinically depressed (which Delp CLEARLY was) isn't someone who is having rational thoughts. Hindsight is a great thing to Monday Morning QB with, but not everyone has that luxury. In my opinion, raking a guy over the coals for taking his own life is a sad commentary on one's inability to have compassion for what is a very sad story. I'm not suggesting that it hasn't been horribly sad for the loved ones that Delp left behind, but give the poor bastard a break!

I might be coming into this late...but so be it....some of the comments above are VERY distasteful and ignorant of the power of Depression, 1,000's commit suicide each year due to Depression...and sorry, they could not pray, run, or eat their way out of it....it is a VERY strong and life ruling situation and disease I may say....meds help most, but not all....therapy helps most, but not all....I am VERY disheartened to hear how unenlightened some people are in the year 2011...especially since I have battled this for 10 plus years of my life....

I read that story and was crushed...he could not deal nor process his feelings anymore, so he moved on...some that say he took the easy way out I can only say it's good for you that you did not have to walk in his shoes, and remember, we all have different capacities for grief and pain....he exceeded his capacity....and now he is gone.

JV

[RPM]

Unfortunately, some simply don't recognize that depression, alcoholism, et. al. are actually diseases.

I'll tackle alcoholism. It's not a disease and that's a fact. If I put a beer in front of someone they have 2 choices ... to drink it or not. Period. It's a question of willpower. Some may have more than others and some may have the tendency to crave it more, but, in the end, you always have a choice in the matter. Always and without exception. Unlike cancer ... which is a disease.

Dave Duerson (who was a defensive back on the 1985 Super Bowl winning Bears team) just shot himself through the heart a couple of days ago, and by all accounts, everyone claims that he was the happiest guy on the planet

Dave Duerson was an angry asshole for the better part of 10 years, John. And I bet this is why:

"Duerson had other troubles. There were financial woes, a marriage breakup, pieces of wreckage that show up on the sad résumés of many suicide victims."

The guy quit, man. He took the easy way out, too. People like you have been giving him an out and he finally took it. Congrats.[/quo

Dave duersons family is now reporting he was suffering from early stages of dementia, that he believes
was brought on early from his football career, and he did not want his family suffering as he deteriorated.
But who knows. He had a world of problems, Brad certainly did not. Although none of us walked in his shoes,
he was thinking clearly enough to not only write notes to loved ones, but warnings to emt's , back up plan
in case first plan failed, admission of responsibility, and probably many things we dont even know.
Rather than seeking help and facing the problems in his life, despite knowing the suffering he would leave behind, he chose to end it. That is a fact. Whether it is due to mental illness or selfishness is certainly not for me to judge.

[RedWingFan]

I'll tackle alcoholism. It's not a disease and that's a fact. If I put a beer in front of someone they have 2 choices ... to drink it or not. Period. It's a question of willpower. Some may have more than others and some may have the tendency to crave it more, but, in the end, you always have a choice in the matter. Always and without exception. Unlike cancer ... which is a disease.

I agree with you about alcoholism. I don't think that or any other addiction is a disease.

Tobacco leads to nicotine addiction as beer can lead to alcoholism.

Tobacco can lead to lung cancer as beer (in excess) can lead to liver disease.

I believe the addictions can lead to the disease, the addiction is not the disease itself.

You're still way off with clinical depression though.