On Twitter

[yulog]

Just a retweet from something that made me chuckle on Twitter yesterday:

TheDaveCarlson: Watching Journey on Palladia and it still feels weird that it's not Steve Perry. He's good but it's like replacing sex with a sex toy.
about 17 hours ago via web


Comments???

Geeeezuz, why didn't I come up w/that?!?! I said it's like
being celibate ...but yes I love ^^^^ I will use it!!

What are you going to use ...the sex toy?

[Saint John]

Ok, Slucero, let's agree to disagree and call it a day. But I'd like to clarify one thing. I never "compared" Perry post-1986 to current day Arnel. I merely made the observation, reasons aside, that Arnel is a better singer than Perry was at that point in time. Should I even go so gfar as to concede the point to you that we were debating, I still don't think it changes the fact that Perry's voice was in such a state that he couldn't sing the songs in their original key and had to completely cut out a good portion ... even though they were already a half step down. Doesn't that pretty much validate my point (reasons aside)?

Again... no... because Arnel hasn't sung those same songs for the same period of time...

Perry = an orange = he sang the catalog for 5 years

Arnel = an apple = he hasn't sung the catalog for 5 years yet... when has... he can be considered an "orange" for the context you use... and compared to other oranges...

I see you're totally discounting Arnel's age. Perry had the benefit of doing this in his early and mid-30's. Pineda is doing it in his early and mid-40's. Looks like we need some more fruit.

[sonorstks]

although older in '94, dont be fooled! I saw FTLOSM in Ft Worth and he sounded brilliant. I was amazed at how Lincoln and the others could closely capture
some of that "legacy" Journey magic. He still had it and probably had enough for Trial by Fire. A shame we never got to see it.

[Marabelle]

Wished he had made the decision to stop singing after the year 2000! Who'd have thought that I would get introduced to a band in 1999, the lead singer would stop singing and I'd missed out in hearing him ever sing a note! I just have the worse of luck! Oh well, I suppose that is why there are CDs and YouTube.

[StElmoQn]

Wished he had made the decision to stop singing after the year 2000! Who'd have thought that I would get introduced to a band in 1999, the lead singer would stop singing and I'd missed out in hearing him ever sing a note! I just have the worse of luck! Oh well, I suppose that is why there are CDs and YouTube.

Yes, if it were not for YouTube and cds, I'd probably not even listen to music anymore, as there are very few artists who can really sing anymore - Taylor (Not So) Swift is my favorite case in point. Chick can't carry a tune in a bucket, yet she's winning every award out there!

Give me music from 1995 backwards...

[slucero]

Ok, Slucero, let's agree to disagree and call it a day. But I'd like to clarify one thing. I never "compared" Perry post-1986 to current day Arnel. I merely made the observation, reasons aside, that Arnel is a better singer than Perry was at that point in time. Should I even go so gfar as to concede the point to you that we were debating, I still don't think it changes the fact that Perry's voice was in such a state that he couldn't sing the songs in their original key and had to completely cut out a good portion ... even though they were already a half step down. Doesn't that pretty much validate my point (reasons aside)?

Again... no... because Arnel hasn't sung those same songs for the same period of time...

Perry = an orange = he sang the catalog for 5 years

Arnel = an apple = he hasn't sung the catalog for 5 years yet... when has... he can be considered an "orange" for the context you use... and compared to other oranges...

I see you're totally discounting Arnel's age. Perry had the benefit of doing this in his early and mid-30's. Pineda is doing it in his early and mid-40's. Looks like we need some more fruit.

Maybe you need the fruit - and an eye checkup....

From my 1st response to you on the previous page...

Lets hear how well AP's voice holds up after he does as many Journey gigs as Perry did... So far AP has 458 to go to equal Perry... and he's already doing fewer average gigs per tour than Perry ever did... that must be the "handicap" for his age...

[Saint John]

Ok, Slucero, let's agree to disagree and call it a day. But I'd like to clarify one thing. I never "compared" Perry post-1986 to current day Arnel. I merely made the observation, reasons aside, that Arnel is a better singer than Perry was at that point in time. Should I even go so gfar as to concede the point to you that we were debating, I still don't think it changes the fact that Perry's voice was in such a state that he couldn't sing the songs in their original key and had to completely cut out a good portion ... even though they were already a half step down. Doesn't that pretty much validate my point (reasons aside)?

Again... no... because Arnel hasn't sung those same songs for the same period of time...

Perry = an orange = he sang the catalog for 5 years

Arnel = an apple = he hasn't sung the catalog for 5 years yet... when has... he can be considered an "orange" for the context you use... and compared to other oranges...

I see you're totally discounting Arnel's age. Perry had the benefit of doing this in his early and mid-30's. Pineda is doing it in his early and mid-40's. Looks like we need some more fruit.

Maybe you need the fruit - and an eye checkup....

From my 1st response to you on the previous page...

Lets hear how well AP's voice holds up after he does as many Journey gigs as Perry did... So far AP has 458 to go to equal Perry... and he's already doing fewer average gigs per tour than Perry ever did... that must be the "handicap" for his age...

OUCH!

[Liquid_Drummer]

Perry's vocal "change" It has more to do with the cumulative and natural wear and tear of having to sing ever more difficult Journey songs... 5 years, 529 gigs worth, in the original key... from 1977 to 1982.... than it has to do with your moronic, unproven allegations...

That's definitely a part of it, but I can't see it being the main reason he can't sing anymore. And it's certainly not the reason for the seemingly irreversible damage. Singing a lot just doesn't do that and rest would have brought about healing. Natural wear and tear? I just don't think so. And I suspect that's why Arnel's voice came back ... and his didn't.

trying to elevate AP to be equal to Perry BEFORE AP even puts in the same amount of time only makes you look as narrow-minded and whiney as the Loons you so despise... Pull yer head out dude...

Follow along, stupid. I said Arnel sings circles around Perry post-1986.

PS Pineda was doing 200+ gigs that lasted 3-5 hours per night in smokey rooms for about a decade and he's singing better than ever at almost 45. So stuff the excuses.

So what the fuck killed his voice in a nutshell ? I have mostly stayed out of these things but Saint, you seem to have some ideas. The change between Escape and Frontiers is just too telling and unnatural for someone to get that much rasp and loss of range that quickly. However, some live Frontiers boots have him sounding like he did on Escape. It seems he had moments live in 83 where it came back. Also the day on the green from late 82 has him in fine form where you hear them do SW for the 1st time as I am sure you have seen on youtube and he was still in the clear there which gives the song a different feel.

The vocal change has always thrown me for a loop. The bootlegs tell the whole tale. He had a good stretch of 83 where he sounded better than on Frontiers. Until the day I die I will believe that the reason Frontiers has soooooo muuuuuuuch REEEEEEEVEERRRRRRRRRRBBBB on the vocals was to help mask the degradation. The vocals on that album are soaked with reverb people. It wasnt to create atmosphere. It was Perry turning those knobs you can fucking bet your ass on that.Froniters has more vocal reverb than any other Journey release and that reverb soaked sound became the trend for his voice from there onward in most cases. Except on parts of Baby Im leaving you. Dry as a bone there.

[slucero]

Perry's vocal "change" It has more to do with the cumulative and natural wear and tear of having to sing ever more difficult Journey songs... 5 years, 529 gigs worth, in the original key... from 1977 to 1982.... than it has to do with your moronic, unproven allegations...

That's definitely a part of it, but I can't see it being the main reason he can't sing anymore. And it's certainly not the reason for the seemingly irreversible damage. Singing a lot just doesn't do that and rest would have brought about healing. Natural wear and tear? I just don't think so. And I suspect that's why Arnel's voice came back ... and his didn't.

trying to elevate AP to be equal to Perry BEFORE AP even puts in the same amount of time only makes you look as narrow-minded and whiney as the Loons you so despise... Pull yer head out dude...

Follow along, stupid. I said Arnel sings circles around Perry post-1986.

PS Pineda was doing 200+ gigs that lasted 3-5 hours per night in smokey rooms for about a decade and he's singing better than ever at almost 45. So stuff the excuses.

So what the fuck killed his voice in a nutshell ? I have mostly stayed out of these things but Saint, you seem to have some ideas. The change between Escape and Frontiers is just too telling and unnatural for someone to get that much rasp and loss of range that quickly. However, some live Frontiers boots have him sounding like he did on Escape. It seems he had moments live in 83 where it came back. Also the day on the green from late 82 has him in fine form where you hear them do SW for the 1st time as I am sure you have seen on youtube and he was still in the clear there which gives the song a different feel.

The vocal change has always thrown me for a loop. The bootlegs tell the whole tale. He had a good stretch of 83 where he sounded better than on Frontiers. Until the day I die I will believe that the reason Frontiers has soooooo muuuuuuuch REEEEEEEVEERRRRRRRRRRBBBB on the vocals was to help mask the degradation. The vocals on that album are soaked with reverb people. It wasnt to create atmosphere. It was Perry turning those knobs you can fucking bet your ass on that.Froniters has more vocal reverb than any other Journey release and that reverb soaked sound became the trend for his voice from there onward in most cases. Except on parts of Baby Im leaving you. Dry as a bone there.

There is no way to mask shitting singing period... if Perry couldn't sing or hold a given note, then there simply would be no sound source to be affected by a reverb or delay. Further, reverb will only "reverberate" the sound source... if the sound source sounds like shit.. then the reverberated portion will also simply sound like shit...

TapeGate is your best example of that..

What one hears is only as good (or as bad) as the source..

[Liquid_Drummer]

Perry's vocal "change" It has more to do with the cumulative and natural wear and tear of having to sing ever more difficult Journey songs... 5 years, 529 gigs worth, in the original key... from 1977 to 1982.... than it has to do with your moronic, unproven allegations...

That's definitely a part of it, but I can't see it being the main reason he can't sing anymore. And it's certainly not the reason for the seemingly irreversible damage. Singing a lot just doesn't do that and rest would have brought about healing. Natural wear and tear? I just don't think so. And I suspect that's why Arnel's voice came back ... and his didn't.

trying to elevate AP to be equal to Perry BEFORE AP even puts in the same amount of time only makes you look as narrow-minded and whiney as the Loons you so despise... Pull yer head out dude...

Follow along, stupid. I said Arnel sings circles around Perry post-1986.

PS Pineda was doing 200+ gigs that lasted 3-5 hours per night in smokey rooms for about a decade and he's singing better than ever at almost 45. So stuff the excuses.

So what the fuck killed his voice in a nutshell ? I have mostly stayed out of these things but Saint, you seem to have some ideas. The change between Escape and Frontiers is just too telling and unnatural for someone to get that much rasp and loss of range that quickly. However, some live Frontiers boots have him sounding like he did on Escape. It seems he had moments live in 83 where it came back. Also the day on the green from late 82 has him in fine form where you hear them do SW for the 1st time as I am sure you have seen on youtube and he was still in the clear there which gives the song a different feel.

The vocal change has always thrown me for a loop. The bootlegs tell the whole tale. He had a good stretch of 83 where he sounded better than on Frontiers. Until the day I die I will believe that the reason Frontiers has soooooo muuuuuuuch REEEEEEEVEERRRRRRRRRRBBBB on the vocals was to help mask the degradation. The vocals on that album are soaked with reverb people. It wasnt to create atmosphere. It was Perry turning those knobs you can fucking bet your ass on that.Froniters has more vocal reverb than any other Journey release and that reverb soaked sound became the trend for his voice from there onward in most cases. Except on parts of Baby Im leaving you. Dry as a bone there.

There is no way to mask shitting singing period... if Perry couldn't sing or hold a given note, then there simply would be no sound source to be affected by a reverb or delay. Further, reverb will only "reverberate" the sound source... if the sound source sounds like shit.. then the reverberated portion will also simply sound like shit...

TapeGate is your best example of that..

What one hears is only as good (or as bad) as the source..

Reverb can be adjusted to have more or less of the dry signal mixed in. Reverb will not hide shitty singing but I never said it was shitty. I just think it was to help smooth out the rasp and enough of it will "smear" details. I have been recording for 15 years and I know that singers that dont like the sound of their own voice tend to be the ones that want reverb smearing on every damn track. I think Perry sounds awesome on frontiers for the record. I just think the sudden change between him sounding like he did on Esacpe at day on the green performing SW live 1st time in late 82 to what we all hear on frontiers only a very short time later? Did he yell at Sherrie too loud and just throw a rod one day and that was it and downhill from there ? It is so obvious and if you fill in the gaps in records by listening to the many bootlegs out there you hear what and when but not the why. I wonder really if he yelled at someone and snapped his gizmo. I mean its as if it happened overnight.

[Greg]

I have to say that there is so much more aspects to a great singing voice than how high or how many different notes a person can comfortably reach. The fact is Perry's voice did change quite a bit from Escape to Frontiers for one reason or another. Whether if it was intentional, a blown out voice, or other reasons, that fact we cannot dispute.

The argument of who sounds better, Steve Perry or Arnel Pindea, is kind of a dumb argument to be making in the first place. I've seen most judge base solely on who was able to hit the highest note at a certain age (40+). That is really the argument that Pineda apologists are going to lean on. That and clarity of the voice. The thing is, there are so many other aspects of a singing voice to consider. That and the fact that clarity verses raspy is completely based on personal taste. I happen to like the raspier, huskier voice of the later Perry tracks. Some think of it as him having a burnt out voice. I think that's purely retarded, but so be it.

Anyways, when you consider all the aspects of a singing voice, the scale will always tip in favor of Steve Perry. Let's not kid ourselves with that fact folks. As far as comparing You Tube videos. Really? That's what you have to go with? A true comparison is one that none of us will probably get to see any time soon (hope I'm wrong on this.) Comparing them both on stage live and in person. That is the only way you're going to truly know who the better singer is presently. Since none of us has heard the man sing in years, we have no leg to stand on. It's really futile to even be arguing about this.