Ok, I get what people are saying about Shirley's.........

[Deb]

......production/mix being sorta muddy sounding.

Just got Mr Big's new Live From The Living Room accoustic show CD and what a difference in sound! Musically I love What If.... but WOW this one is so crystal clear you can hear every string Paul and Billy hit.....and E's vocals are sublime.....very crystal clear. GREAT stripped down set, beautiful string section on some songs and cool sounding Taiko drums (Nobody Left To Blame). Surprised the hell out of me how they would pull off some of these powerhouse songs, acoustically. Just when I think those 4 can't get any more talented........

Easily my new favorite version of Voodoo Kiss, MB at their bluesy best.

[SF-Dano]

Recently picked up a compilation Dream Theater record and it has three songs on it from the "Images & Words" album that have been remixed by the Caveman. The original versions on Images & Words sound so much better I can't even begin to describe how much. I was listening to Pull Me Under and thinking this doesn't sound right at all. Just took all the "punch" out of the songs. I really don't think Shirley knows how to properly handle a guitar solo in a rock song. He tends to bury the solos when they should be way out infront of the mix.

He has done some work for Iron Maiden that I enjoy alot, but I gotta wonder what it would have sounded like with someone else at the helm.

[yulog]

If you really want to see how muddy the sound is on the new mr. big, just make a mp3 disc with various songs from different groups all at the same bitrate. I happen to have a song from the new nelson cd after undertow and the production(not the song itself) is so much better than undertow. Mr big sounds like it was made in someones garage on subpar equipment. It's a shame because you want to turn it up but the flaws in production get worse as you raise the volume.

[steveo777]

So maybe Journey is just a "muddy" sounding band then?

[NoMoreTails]

At one point I thought Journey had brought David Kalmusky in because Kevin Shirley had spread himself too thin with other projects. However, the more opinions I see on Shirley's work and judging from what I've heard including the recent BCC and MR Big, Schon and Cain evidently felt he was lacking in ability in the mixing phase of the production. It would seem Kalumsky is more proficient and more conscientious with his post production work.
Why would Shirley even bother to remix the Dream Theater stuff only to end up with an inferior result? Ego? I think the issues he brought up with Journey are more his frustration with being relieved of the mixing duties rather than actual termoil and childish behavior on the part of the band. All signs point to the creative tension from the sessions having a positve result. Dream Theater eventually parted ways with him as well.

[steveo777]

Kalmusky himself has posted in the Journey forum.

[NoMoreTails]

Kalmusky himself has posted in the Journey forum.

I saw your comment on that to someone last week (thanks!) and did a search of his posts. I hope he posts more remarks. I'd like to see more of this comments from his blog (or whatever the source) as well, which someone pasted in the forum some time ago.

[SF-Dano]

I really don't understand how Shirley became the much sought after producer he apparently is. Even with Journey, I always thought Kevin Elson/Mike Stone works sounded better.

[Don]

Shirley's work with Trial By Fire sounds great sonically. I'm listening to Eclipse right now and so far it has lived up to what I billed it as earlier, a rockier sequel to TBF. What ever mixing entails, it doesn't change the fact that this release mirrors Trial By Fire's production fidelity. I'll give an overall summation of where I think Eclipse ranks in the Journey catalog later in the week.

[steveo777]

Shirley's work with Trial By Fire sounds great sonically. I'm listening to Eclipse right now and so far it has lived up to what I billed it as earlier, a rockier sequel to TBF. What ever mixing entails, it doesn't change the fact that this release mirrors Trial By Fire's production fidelity. I'll give an overall summation of where I think Eclipse ranks in the Journey catalog later in the week.

A little early. Why not wait until we have the whole thing?

[Don]

Think early Kansas without the funky keyboards and you'll have an idea of where Journey went with this.

[Michigan Girl]

Shirley's work with Trial By Fire sounds great sonically. I'm listening to Eclipse right now and so far it has lived up to what I billed it as earlier, a rockier sequel to TBF. What ever mixing entails, it doesn't change the fact that this release mirrors Trial By Fire's production fidelity. I'll give an overall summation of where I think Eclipse ranks in the Journey catalog later in the week.

Really?!? I can't wait to hear it ...and your summation!!

[Jana]

Think early Kansas without the funky keyboards and you'll have an idea of where Journey went with this.

Is that good or bad? I don't really know what early Kansas is, off the top of my head. Have you already heard it? Never mind. You said you were up there.

[Don]

Think early Kansas without the funky keyboards and you'll have an idea of where Journey went with this.

Is that good or bad? I don't really know what early Kansas is, off the top of my head. Have you already heard it?

I'll present my overall opinions soon.

[Pelata]

Why would Shirley even bother to remix the Dream Theater stuff only to end up with an inferior result? Ego?

He was asked to for the Greatest Hits album...he did not mix the original album. He stripped all the drum triggers off from the original I&W mix and mixed it more "modern sounding" supposedly...I thought it sounded good, myself.

I have yet to have an issue with any of Kevin's releases...but then again, I'm not a self-professed audiophile who has some super-mega-ultra-surround-sound-bluray-digital-home-theater to listen to music on...if the CD sounds good in my car, I'm happy...and so far the Kevin Shirley releases I have are fine by me. I honestly don't get the problems people have with his work...

[SF-Dano]

Why would Shirley even bother to remix the Dream Theater stuff only to end up with an inferior result? Ego?

He was asked to for the Greatest Hits album...he did not mix the original album. He stripped all the drum triggers off from the original I&W mix and mixed it more "modern sounding" supposedly...I thought it sounded good, myself.

I have yet to have an issue with any of Kevin's releases...but then again, I'm not a self-professed audiophile who has some super-mega-ultra-surround-sound-bluray-digital-home-theater to listen to music on...if the CD sounds good in my car, I'm happy...and so far the Kevin Shirley releases I have are fine by me. I honestly don't get the problems people have with his work...

I have to disagree with you here. I felt that the songs he redid on the DT CD lost alot of their original "punch" for lack of a technical term. I suppose you are correct that DT wanted him to come up with something a bit different for those tunes, but again for my tastes, they are inferior to the original tracks.

[Behshad]

. Mr big sounds like it was made in someones garage on subpar equipment

Your point?

[Deb]

. Mr big sounds like it was made in someones garage on subpar equipment

Your point?

You booger, don't take that out of context, he meant the album production not the band/songs. MB can play their equipment in my garage anytime.

[S2M]

. Mr big sounds like it was made in someones garage on subpar equipment

Your point?

You booger, don't take that out of context, he meant the album production not the band/songs. MB can play their equipment in my garage anytime.

Wow...your garage that big?

[steveo777]

. Mr big sounds like it was made in someones garage on subpar equipment

Your point?

You booger, don't take that out of context, he meant the album production not the band/songs. MB can play their equipment in my garage anytime.

I detect a double entendre there, you naughty girl.

[Deb]

Why would Shirley even bother to remix the Dream Theater stuff only to end up with an inferior result? Ego?

He was asked to for the Greatest Hits album...he did not mix the original album. He stripped all the drum triggers off from the original I&W mix and mixed it more "modern sounding" supposedly...I thought it sounded good, myself.

I have yet to have an issue with any of Kevin's releases...but then again, I'm not a self-professed audiophile who has some super-mega-ultra-surround-sound-bluray-digital-home-theater to listen to music on...if the CD sounds good in my car, I'm happy...and so far the Kevin Shirley releases I have are fine by me. I honestly don't get the problems people have with his work...

Don't really have an issue with his releases, I looove the sound of TBF. But I think I had a bit of rose-colored glasses on when What If.... first came out. In my happy bubble, with the reunion and getting a new product from MB. But after hearing this new live MB CD, not even sure who produced it, it's from Japan, and granted it's a full on accoustic set.........the sound is way better on this one in ALL ways. Paul's ping of his guitar strings, bass and funky drum(s) and the mics sound so clear you can damn near hear spit bubbles when E sings.

Don't get me wrong, I loooove the What If... album and play it loud and proud often, but just kinda curious what it would have sounded like if Kevin Elson had done it, like their past ones. I know Shirley was going for a live feel, but hell Eric sounded better actually LIVE last month than on the album. I read he wanted a more modern sound on it and sure it IS a more modern sound, but I recall Shirley mention (Andrew's interview or maybe it was an EM interview) that vibrato is kind of dated. And wanted to push Eric more, minimizing his vibrato. I have to disagree with him on that one. His vibrato is a part of his great rock or soul vocal......LIVE, and on this newer CD proves it, IMO.

[Behshad]

. Mr big sounds like it was made in someones garage on subpar equipment

Your point?

You booger, don't take that out of context, he meant the album production not the band/songs. MB can play their equipment in my garage anytime.

But I do recall that YOU made fun of my early copy of this CD, blaming ME for it sounding like a BOOTLEG

[Saint John]

Eric sounded better actually LIVE last month than on the album.

I know the feeling. I knew Shirley had pissed his pants when I heard the Revelation stuff live. It was better and sounded alive. That was something he just wasn't able to capture on the CD.

[S2M]

Eric sounded better actually LIVE last month than on the album.

I know the feeling. I knew Shirley had pissed his pants when I heard the Revelation stuff live. It was better and sounded alive. That was something he just wasn't able to capture on the CD.

and that goes both ways....take a three-piece like RUSH. You cannot reproduce the studio stuff live, unless Alex has pedals. Geddy gets to program his keyboard, and Neil has triggers for his kit.....

and how do you reproduce layered vocals on stage....I see some piping in of vocals, AND layered guitars for the tour.