Eclipse Billboard - Flop

[Onestepper]

I still call bullshit on Lady Gaga's numbers, there is no way in hell she can out sell a country artist by that much. Country fans are a huge force to be reckoned with and when an artist as big as Brad Paisley releases an album, country fans turn out in droves to buy it.

Didn't she sell the album for .99 or something crazy like that? I think it's entirely possible for her to put up those numbers. She attracts something that the country singer does not; teenage girls. Money.

[ebake02]

I still call bullshit on Lady Gaga's numbers, there is no way in hell she can out sell a country artist by that much. Country fans are a huge force to be reckoned with and when an artist as big as Brad Paisley releases an album, country fans turn out in droves to buy it.

Didn't she sell the album for .99 or something crazy like that? I think it's entirely possible for her to put up those numbers. She attracts something that the country singer does not; teenage girls. Money.

The $.99 only accounted for 400,000 copies or something like that. I'm arguing that there is no way that #1 could outsell #2 by a million copies, that's a hell of a lot in this economy.

[Saint John]

There's simply no way to sugarcoat this ... this was a colossal flop and a total debut failure. I'm interested to see if management does something, anything, to try and stimulate sales. As Don said, they didn't get Walmart for this type of number. They could have done this through their own site. They got Walmart for (total) sales in the 100's of thousands, and that's not going to happen unless management holds Anderson's and Walmart's feet to the fire. If they even can (or care to). Either way, this is a week 1 disaster. Period. These numbers suck. Anyone celebrating in the Journey camp is off their rocker.

[Jana]

I still call bullshit on Lady Gaga's numbers, there is no way in hell she can out sell a country artist by that much. Country fans are a huge force to be reckoned with and when an artist as big as Brad Paisley releases an album, country fans turn out in droves to buy it.

You're not very informed then, because Lady Gaga will pummel him in first week sales. She is at her peak right now on this album. Gaga is the it thing right now in pop. She has a massive young fan base that is growing by the minute, a massive gay fan base, and many people in their thirties and forties buy her music. She has toured for three years on her last huge hit album, toured right up until almost this album was released and been able to hype it for quite a while even in the tour she was on building a lot of momentum talking about her album, not even including all her promotion..

[Jana]

Is #11 really that bad?

It's not the ranking that is the issue. When one of their peers, Tom Petty moves 125k on his debut only 10 months earlier, you sort of expect Journey to at least get half of that. Revelation was a surprise with it's 105k on debut, this was supposed to be next step forward.

Did the band indicate it was the next step forward, though? I thought I heard they weren't expecting it to sell as well? I would guess from the major change in direction stylistically, they probably didn't expect anything earth-shattering in the sales department regardless.

If that is truly the case, then I can't see Wal-Mart continuing on with them. What good is a loss leader product if the artist doesn't care if it sells or not? The idea is to get people into the store.

True...On another note, even though there was no visible promotion at my local Walmart, they did have between 60-70 copies of the album on hand when I was there yesterday. I was kinda surprised since I was only expecting to see maybe 5-10 or slightly more.

Yeah, in some cases it looked like there were more copies of Eclipse then Born This Way. It sure seemed like Wal-Mart was expecting something a little closer to Revelation's numbers.

Maybe that's because Eclipse was staying on the shelf and they couldn't keep Gaga on the shelf.

[Ehwmatt]

There's simply no way to sugarcoat this ... this was a colossal flop and a total debut failure. I'm interested to see if management does something, anything, to try and stimulate sales. As Don said, they didn't get Walmart for these this of number. They could have done this through their own site. They got Walmart of (total) sales in the 100's of thousands, and that's not going to happen unless management holds Anderson's and Walmart's feet to the fire. If they even can (or care to). Either way, this is a week 1 disaster. Period. These numbers suck. Anyone celebrating in the Journey camp is off their rocker.

Yep. Love or hate the album, this is uncontroverted fact. It really blows my mind that they wouldn't have them at least include a promo display in stores. Like you and/or another poster said, people simply do not know the album is even there to buy.

[ebake02]

I still call bullshit on Lady Gaga's numbers, there is no way in hell she can out sell a country artist by that much. Country fans are a huge force to be reckoned with and when an artist as big as Brad Paisley releases an album, country fans turn out in droves to buy it.

You're not very informed then, because Lady Gaga will pummel him in first week sales. She is at her peak right now on this album. Gaga is the it thing right now in pop. She has a massive young fan base that is growing by the minute, a massive gay fan base, and many people in their thirties and forties buy her music. She has toured for three years on her last huge hit album, toured right up until almost this album was released and been able to hype it for quite a while even in the tour she was on building a lot of momentum talking about her album, not even including all her promotion..

No I'm not, I stick to classic rock, 80s metal and 90s grunge so I have no clue what's going on in pop scene and I have no desire to know either. I don't listen to that crap.

[ebake02]

There's simply no way to sugarcoat this ... this was a colossal flop and a total debut failure. I'm interested to see if management does something, anything, to try and stimulate sales. As Don said, they didn't get Walmart for these this of number. They could have done this through their own site. They got Walmart of (total) sales in the 100's of thousands, and that's not going to happen unless management holds Anderson's and Walmart's feet to the fire. If they even can (or care to). Either way, this is a week 1 disaster. Period. These numbers suck. Anyone celebrating in the Journey camp is off their rocker.

Yep. Love or hate the album, this is uncontroverted fact. It really blows my mind that they wouldn't have them at least include a promo display in stores. Like you and/or another poster said, people simply do not know the album is even there to buy.

Honestly, I could be wrong but if it wasn't for Arnel's feel good story, Revelation wouldn't have done any better. Journey got really lucky with that one.

[steveo777]

I guess Journey thought name alone could move this.

[Jana]

There's simply no way to sugarcoat this ... this was a colossal flop and a total debut failure. I'm interested to see if management does something, anything, to try and stimulate sales. As Don said, they didn't get Walmart for these this of number. They could have done this through their own site. They got Walmart of (total) sales in the 100's of thousands, and that's not going to happen unless management holds Anderson's and Walmart's feet to the fire. If they even can (or care to). Either way, this is a week 1 disaster. Period. These numbers suck. Anyone celebrating in the Journey camp is off their rocker.

Yep. Love or hate the album, this is uncontroverted fact. It really blows my mind that they wouldn't have them at least include a promo display in stores. Like you and/or another poster said, people simply do not know the album is even there to buy.

Since there's no promo, maybe they should have done a more vibrant album cover that stood out, especially since it was in a thin carboard sleeve. No matter what, Revelation really stood out with its album cover.

[Monker]

Didn't "Arrival" debut at #50 and "Generations" at, like, #113? If these figures are accurate, I'm more than impressed.

Arrival was selling 16-20,000 about a month after its debut. I have no idea about Generations.

These numbers are pathetic...especially considering all of the hype people here were giving it. SJ was saying this would outsell Revelation. No way that is going to happen. I doubt it will even come close to Arrival. You guys were way, way, way off.

[Don]

Andrew's 100% curse strikes again.

[Monker]

Is #11 really that bad?

It's not the ranking that is the issue. When one of their peers, Tom Petty moves 125k on his debut only 10 months earlier, you sort of expect Journey to at least get half of that. Revelation was a surprise with it's 105k on debut, this was supposed to be next step forward.

Did the band indicate it was the next step forward, though? I thought I heard they weren't expecting it to sell as well? I would guess from the major change in direction stylistically, they probably didn't expect anything earth-shattering in the sales department regardless.

Then the people in this forum were ignoring what the band said because SJ was talking about HUGE sales, people were predicting 100,000 in sales just a week before release....and NOW they just the excuse of promotion. Sorry, but promotion happens BEFORE a release, not the day of. If you had an issue with promotion, it should have been whined about BEFORE release, and your ridiculous sales predictions should have accounted for it.

[Memorex]

There's simply no way to sugarcoat this ... this was a colossal flop and a total debut failure. I'm interested to see if management does something, anything, to try and stimulate sales. As Don said, they didn't get Walmart for these this of number. They could have done this through their own site. They got Walmart of (total) sales in the 100's of thousands, and that's not going to happen unless management holds Anderson's and Walmart's feet to the fire. If they even can (or care to). Either way, this is a week 1 disaster. Period. These numbers suck. Anyone celebrating in the Journey camp is off their rocker.

I guess it all depends on what expectations are. If they are resigned to the fact that their heyday is over, then maybe this was to be expected.

If not for this site or me personally keeping up to date, there is no way I'd know this album is even out. I'm on the Frontiers mailing list - I got an notice about the two singles, but never anything near or on the release date. That is criminal. Cheap advertising to a captive audience and they send nothing? So if they can't even take that small but essential step, then I'd say they just care more about the tour and Neal having the Journey album he always wanted.

As far as comparing them to anything Gaga or any other current artist is doing - that's nuts. That's like comparing Mel Torme of 1983 to Journey of 1983.

[Monker]

Is #11 really that bad?

It's not the ranking that is the issue. When one of their peers, Tom Petty moves 125k on his debut only 10 months earlier, you sort of expect Journey to at least get half of that. Revelation was a surprise with it's 105k on debut, this was supposed to be next step forward.

Did the band indicate it was the next step forward, though? I thought I heard they weren't expecting it to sell as well? I would guess from the major change in direction stylistically, they probably didn't expect anything earth-shattering in the sales department regardless.

There was all sorts of promotion for Petty's MOJO (which sucked, by the way).[/quote

And,I heard several songs from it on the radio.

[Monker]

Didn't "Arrival" debut at #50 and "Generations" at, like, #113? If these figures are accurate, I'm more than impressed.

Yeah, I mean...I have a new Journey album I like and its #11. Cool. It will have a little staying power throughout the summer with touring and the Today show. My prediction of 250k - 500k seems too high now, but I'm not sure if it won't get to the lower end of that eventually.[/quote

LOL..."staying power" Define that. it won't stay in the to 100 very long at all.

[Monker]

Is #11 really that bad?

It's not the ranking that is the issue. When one of their peers, Tom Petty moves 125k on his debut only 10 months earlier, you sort of expect Journey to at least get half of that. Revelation was a surprise with it's 105k on debut, this was supposed to be next step forward.

Did the band indicate it was the next step forward, though? I thought I heard they weren't expecting it to sell as well? I would guess from the major change in direction stylistically, they probably didn't expect anything earth-shattering in the sales department regardless.

If that is truly the case, then I can't see Wal-Mart continuing on with them. What good is a loss leader product if the artist doesn't care if it sells or not? The idea is to get people into the store.

True...On another note, even though there was no visible promotion at my local Walmart, they did have between 60-70 copies of the album on hand when I was there yesterday. I was kinda surprised since I was only expecting to see maybe 5-10 or slightly more.[/quote

Cool...maybe I'll get it when goes on sale for 1/2 price...cuz they are not going to want to hold on to that many copies unsold.

[fightingilliniJRNY]

Those are some really terrible numbers. Yikes. No shot Wal-Mart re-ups with them for a new album after this. I bet the next thing Wal-Mart might even remotely consider is something like Def Leppard is doing - a live album with three or four new songs tacked on at the end. Not even 20,000 copies moved. Seven debuts outsold Eclipse. Not good.

[G.I.Jim]

Andrew's 100% curse strikes again.

That was some funny shit right there Don (and actually true I think!). Any time you score an album like this higher than the brand new Whitesnake album (that kicks MAJOR ass and still sounds amazing), you're asking for trouble.

[Monker]

Is anyone willing to say that Journey won't care about this? That's over an 80% drop from Revelation's debut numbers.

Wal-Mart will. They are set up to lose money on this release. If so, there will not be another Journey release from Wal-Mart.

[Jubilee]

I guess it all depends on what expectations are. If they are resigned to the fact that their heyday is over, then maybe this was to be expected.

If not for this site or me personally keeping up to date, there is no way I'd know this album is even out. I'm on the Frontiers mailing list - I got an notice about the two singles, but never anything near or on the release date. That is criminal. Cheap advertising to a captive audience and they send nothing? So if they can't even take that small but essential step, then I'd say they just care more about the tour and Neal having the Journey album he always wanted.

As far as comparing them to anything Gaga or any other current artist is doing - that's nuts. That's like comparing Mel Torme of 1983 to Journey of 1983.

16k? I don't think anybody expected THIS. And I agree. This is criminal. I understand budgets are tight, but how much does it cost to set up a Twitter account & tweet? Nothing! It's FREE! HELLOOOO?!?! Heaven knows they didn't blow the entire advertising/marketing budget on the packaging. This has got to be Marketing 101. You have to let the people know the product is out there...assuming you intend for them to buy it.

[Memorex]

Walter Mondale beats me by one state in 1984 and now Journey outsells my debut album by only 17k! Someday I'll win.

[madsplash]

There's somebody at home right now thinking.......


"You'd be better off alone
If I'm not who you thought I'd be.

But you know that there's a fever
that you'll never find nowhere else."

I was OK with Revelation(barely), but Eclipse sounds almost nothing like Journey. Enjoy "your" album Neal
When songs are played off of this album live on tour, the beer vendors will LOVE it.

[Monker]

There's simply no way to sugarcoat this ... this was a colossal flop and a total debut failure. I'm interested to see if management does something, anything, to try and stimulate sales. As Don said, they didn't get Walmart for these this of number. They could have done this through their own site. They got Walmart of (total) sales in the 100's of thousands, and that's not going to happen unless management holds Anderson's and Walmart's feet to the fire. If they even can (or care to). Either way, this is a week 1 disaster. Period. These numbers suck. Anyone celebrating in the Journey camp is off their rocker.

I guess it all depends on what expectations are. If they are resigned to the fact that their heyday is over, then maybe this was to be expected.

If not for this site or me personally keeping up to date, there is no way I'd know this album is even out. I'm on the Frontiers mailing list - I got an notice about the two singles, but never anything near or on the release date. That is criminal. Cheap advertising to a captive audience and they send nothing? So if they can't even take that small but essential step, then I'd say they just care more about the tour and Neal having the Journey album he always wanted.

As far as comparing them to anything Gaga or any other current artist is doing - that's nuts. That's like comparing Mel Torme of 1983 to Journey of 1983.

Oh, please, this was far below what even I expected. The bottom line is that hardly anybody cares about this album being released. It's not going anywhere with numbers like this. Wal-Mart is going to lose money and Journey is going to have to search for a new outlet, or do it themselves.

[Rockindeano]

And you folks think there will be another album forthcoming? Look again at these numbers.

Mgt does have power. Azoff can wield it like a motherfucker, he chooses not to, and Cain and Schon don't say a single word. This is it, folks. Cherish this last piece of original material like no other. I can see another Live DVD/CD coming out to satisfy the Flip Nation, but no way anyone, not even that shit record company Frontiers takes Journey on.

Advantage Perry, and he didn't even put out a fucking record! Hell, to put this colossal tank job into perspective, the US Congress has better approval numbers than does Eclipse/Journey.

[Monker]

[quote="fightingilliniJRNY"]Those are some really terrible numbers. Yikes. No shot Wal-Mart re-ups with them for a new album after this. I bet the next thing Wal-Mart might even remotely consider is something like Def Leppard is doing - a live album with three or four new songs tacked on at the end. Not even 20,000 copies moved. Seven debuts outsold Eclipse. Not good.[/quote

No publisher is going to take chance on an artist that lost them tens of thousands of dollars. Wal-Mart is history.

[Monker]

I guess it all depends on what expectations are. If they are resigned to the fact that their heyday is over, then maybe this was to be expected.

If not for this site or me personally keeping up to date, there is no way I'd know this album is even out. I'm on the Frontiers mailing list - I got an notice about the two singles, but never anything near or on the release date. That is criminal. Cheap advertising to a captive audience and they send nothing? So if they can't even take that small but essential step, then I'd say they just care more about the tour and Neal having the Journey album he always wanted.

As far as comparing them to anything Gaga or any other current artist is doing - that's nuts. That's like comparing Mel Torme of 1983 to Journey of 1983.

16k? I don't think anybody expected THIS. And I agree. This is criminal. I understand budgets are tight, but how much does it cost to set up a Twitter account & tweet? Nothing! It's FREE! HELLOOOO?!?! Heaven knows they didn't blow the entire advertising/marketing budget on the packaging. This has got to be Marketing 101. You have to let the people know the product is out there...assuming you intend for them to buy it. [/quote

then why didn't you complain about this three months ago when it would have mattered?

[Jubilee]

There's somebody at home right now thinking.......


"You'd be better off alone
If I'm not who you thought I'd be.

But you know that there's a fever
that you'll never find nowhere else."

I was OK with Revelation(barely), but Eclipse sounds almost nothing like Journey. Enjoy "your" album Neal
When songs are played off of this album live on tour, the beer vendors will LOVE it.

Well, well. If it isn't the eternal optimist Welcome back, Splashy! These are just the early returns. May be a little too early for gloating...maybe.

[portland]

Andrew's 100% curse strikes again.

That was some funny shit right there Don (and actually true I think!). Any time you score an album like this higher than the brand new Whitesnake album (that kicks MAJOR ass and still sounds amazing), you're asking for trouble.

Agreed...and I have tickets for August!

[Onestepper]

And you folks think there will be another album forthcoming? Look again at these numbers.

Mgt does have power. Azoff can wield it like a motherfucker, he chooses not to, and Cain and Schon don't say a single word. This is it, folks. Cherish this last piece of original material like no other. I can see another Live DVD/CD coming out to satisfy the Flip Nation, but no way anyone, not even that shit record company Frontiers takes Journey on.

Advantage Perry, and he didn't even put out a fucking record!

Well said. Maybe Azoff actually listened to the album and gave it what he thought it was worth in terms of promotion. He's not a dummy. NS wanted his record. Now he has it. And the results are as clear as day.