Eclipse Billboard - Flop

[steveo777]

I have a feeling that once Journey is done a new band will be built around Neal, Arnel and Deen. Maybe Bad English part deux?

Like Soul Sirkus, it would flop. Journey is the brand name that sells tickets. Outside of guitar geeks and Journey fans, very few people appreciate Neal Schon.

Hmm, good point. AP will still be pretty young, so I wonder what his future looks like from there? He may just retire home and do what he enjoys...just having fun singing covers
or a bigger thing might pick him up.

[Don]

Without the Journey banner hanging behind them, the majority of fans could care less about about Schon, Pineda and Deen.
As Journey, they can shift 9,000 CDs this week and still sell out Wembley Arena.
As Bad English II, they'll be handing out their songs on thumb drives and co-headlining with Trevor Lukather at some West Hollywood night club..

[Don]

I have a feeling that once Journey is done a new band will be built around Neal, Arnel and Deen. Maybe Bad English part deux?

Like Soul Sirkus, it would flop. Journey is the brand name that sells tickets. Outside of guitar geeks and Journey fans, very few people appreciate Neal Schon.

Hmm, good point. AP will still be pretty young, so I wonder what his future looks like from there? He may just retire home and do what he enjoys...just having fun singing covers
or a bigger thing might pick him up.

A bigger thing?The harder tones of Eclipse have alienated him from his new found fan base in the Philippines. He want from hometown hero singing the classics to a guy who can't even get a paragraph in the R.P papers when his band's new rock album comes out.

[steveo777]

I have a feeling that once Journey is done a new band will be built around Neal, Arnel and Deen. Maybe Bad English part deux?

Like Soul Sirkus, it would flop. Journey is the brand name that sells tickets. Outside of guitar geeks and Journey fans, very few people appreciate Neal Schon.

Hmm, good point. AP will still be pretty young, so I wonder what his future looks like from there? He may just retire home and do what he enjoys...just having fun singing covers
or a bigger thing might pick him up.

A bigger thing?The harder tones of Eclipse have alienated him from his new found fan base in the Philippines. He want from hometown hero singing the classics to a guy who can't even get a paragraph in the R.P papers when his band's new rock album comes out.

I don't really care about what they think of him over there anymore. I knew that novelty would wear off. The fans are actually more loyal to Perry, since
his songs are normally the first to get uploaded to YouTube. Ok, maybe I just feel like being a jack ass tonight.

[Don]

Does anyone know if those "Countdown To Platinum" signs are biodegradable?

[portland]

Does anyone know if those "Countdown To Platinum" signs are biodegradable?

[slucero]

If that's the case... then where does that leave the band for their next (cough, cough) record..

Now we are seeing Eclipse, an album JC the Balladeer himself said was more Neal than him.. that he said he "barely played on"... not even likely to "eclipse" Arrival.... and JC has to tour with this band for 2 more years doing a DD retread set where the only thing new they play is off an album that he likely doesn't even like?


I've said it before... I still think Cain is gonna bail...

1. he doesn't need the money... doesn't have Schons monthly alimony bills for force him to keep touring..
2. he lives in Nashville.. his life is there
3. he has a brand new studio there... has talked openly about it going commercial
4. has talked openly about wanting to produce
5. his daughter's career is just starting in Nashville

He has more upside in Nashville than on the road..


Eclipse just made "Journey the songwriters" - meaning JC - irrelevant.. that songwriting "magic" only existed with the triumvirate of JC/SP/NS, even JC said so in a recent interview... and these NS heavy songs, speak for themselves.. sure some fans like them.. but its obvious most fans don't.

Its the NS show now... and all the other players are now just sidemen...

JC can simply hire his own replacement and go back home..

The lyrics are pure Cain, and in a recent interview, he was defending Neal's decision to rock out. I really don't see him going anywhere.

5 more years is my prediction, then we can get back to arguing about what we once had...all singers and all players included.

I have a feeling that once Journey is done a new band will be built around Neal, Arnel and Deen. Maybe Bad English part deux? Retire Night Ranger
and pull in Jack Blades, and maybe Rolie comes into this somehow? There could be a good band right there.

In 5 years:

Neal is 62
Jon is 66
Ross is 67
Deen is 51
Arnel is 49


I'm betting sooner than 5 years... and given this tour is 2 years, on Jon I think I'm is pretty comfortable with my post... I'd even add Ross to the "within 2 years" number...

The only way they go another 5 is if they go totally retro Journey, full on 80's pop anthem with their next release, because 5 years pretty much means one more album.. and as John and Neal have already said... they don't want to do that again.

My money's on this being their last tour.

[Rockindeano]

In 5 years:

Neal is 62
Jon is 66
Ross is 67
Deen is 51
Arnel is 49


I'm betting sooner than 5 years... and given this tour is 2 years, on Jon I think I'm is pretty comfortable with my post... I'd even add Ross to the "within 2 years" number...

I don't want to go Deb and insert Springsteen into every post I make, but listen...Journey compared to their contemporaries, has indeed aged well, yes? The band look pretty good for their age. having said that, the E Street Band is much older. Hell, Bruce is 61, and a fucking frontman! Clarence is 70! My point is age shouldn't really matter as a reason to hang em up for this band. I would think Cain, being a smart guy, and for the reasons already listed, wants to retire in order toenjoy the life his savings account will afford him, ie- travel, Madison's career, etc etc. Schon will play til he's in the ground, Valory is already the weakest bass player making money at this craft and goes through the motions nightly. To me, the blood pressure in Journey is Schon, Deen and Pineda. They could carry on the Journey name and band for another decade.

[steveo777]

In 5 years:

Neal is 62
Jon is 66
Ross is 67
Deen is 51
Arnel is 49


I'm betting sooner than 5 years... and given this tour is 2 years, on Jon I think I'm is pretty comfortable with my post... I'd even add Ross to the "within 2 years" number...

I don't want to go Deb and insert Springsteen into every post I make, but listen...Journey compared to their contemporaries, has indeed aged well, yes? The band look pretty good for their age. having said that, the E Street Band is much older. Hell, Bruce is 61, and a fucking frontman! Clarence is 70! My point is age shouldn't really matter as a reason to hang em up for this band. I would think Cain, being a smart guy, and for the reasons already listed, wants to retire in order toenjoy the life his savings account will afford him, ie- travel, Madison's career, etc etc. Schon will play til he's in the ground, Valory is already the weakest bass player making money at this craft and goes through the motions nightly. To me, the blood pressure in Journey is Schon, Deen and Pineda. They could carry on the Journey name and band for another decade.

That's why I said retire Night Ranger and bring Blades on board and maybe get Rolie back. Those five together will be worth more than anything NR or the GRB is gonna produce in the future. I think it would be a kick ass team.

[Rockindeano]

In 5 years:

Neal is 62
Jon is 66
Ross is 67
Deen is 51
Arnel is 49


I'm betting sooner than 5 years... and given this tour is 2 years, on Jon I think I'm is pretty comfortable with my post... I'd even add Ross to the "within 2 years" number...

I don't want to go Deb and insert Springsteen into every post I make, but listen...Journey compared to their contemporaries, has indeed aged well, yes? The band look pretty good for their age. having said that, the E Street Band is much older. Hell, Bruce is 61, and a fucking frontman! Clarence is 70! My point is age shouldn't really matter as a reason to hang em up for this band. I would think Cain, being a smart guy, and for the reasons already listed, wants to retire in order toenjoy the life his savings account will afford him, ie- travel, Madison's career, etc etc. Schon will play til he's in the ground, Valory is already the weakest bass player making money at this craft and goes through the motions nightly. To me, the blood pressure in Journey is Schon, Deen and Pineda. They could carry on the Journey name and band for another decade.

That's why I said retire Night Ranger and bring Blades on board and maybe get Rolie back. Those five together will be worth more than anything NR or the GRB is gonna produce in the future. I think it would be a kick ass team.

What makes you think Gregg wants to tour on this scale? Dude is playing cucumber festivals and coffee houses.

As for Blades, he can't shit on NR and go to greener pastures can he?

[Eric]

That's why I said retire Night Ranger and bring Blades on board and maybe get Rolie back. Those five together will be worth more than anything NR or the GRB is gonna produce in the future. I think it would be a kick ass team.

I'm ridiculously into replacing Valory with Blades. It would solve a lot of issues:

1) Valory makes them appear too old
2) Blades can write (and already has chemistry with Schon)
3) Blades can add killer vocals
4) Blades is better than Valory on Bass

That's a pretty nice lineup with Jack Blades.

[NoMoreTails]

I would think Marco Mendoza is Neal's first choice on bass for any other projects/bands. Besides, Blades probably views himself as a singer as much as a bass player and he doesn't need to be anywhere near a mic in a band with a singer of Arnel's caliber, or Deen's for that matter.

[parfait]

In 5 years:

Neal is 62
Jon is 66
Ross is 67
Deen is 51
Arnel is 49


I'm betting sooner than 5 years... and given this tour is 2 years, on Jon I think I'm is pretty comfortable with my post... I'd even add Ross to the "within 2 years" number...

I don't want to go Deb and insert Springsteen into every post I make, but listen...Journey compared to their contemporaries, has indeed aged well, yes? The band look pretty good for their age. having said that, the E Street Band is much older. Hell, Bruce is 61, and a fucking frontman! Clarence is 70! My point is age shouldn't really matter as a reason to hang em up for this band. I would think Cain, being a smart guy, and for the reasons already listed, wants to retire in order toenjoy the life his savings account will afford him, ie- travel, Madison's career, etc etc. Schon will play til he's in the ground, Valory is already the weakest bass player making money at this craft and goes through the motions nightly. To me, the blood pressure in Journey is Schon, Deen and Pineda. They could carry on the Journey name and band for another decade.

That's why I said retire Night Ranger and bring Blades on board and maybe get Rolie back. Those five together will be worth more than anything NR or the GRB is gonna produce in the future. I think it would be a kick ass team.

What makes you think Gregg wants to tour on this scale? Dude is playing cucumber festivals and coffee houses.

As for Blades, he can't shit on NR and go to greener pastures can he?

Throw Ross and Deen out on their asses, get back Rollie, Smith and a good bass player (Nathan East, Leeland Sklar), tell Neal to lay off the fucking shredding and tell Arnel to stop singing like he's in Sound of Music; and you got yourself a grooving and talented band.

[Jana]

That's why I said retire Night Ranger and bring Blades on board and maybe get Rolie back. Those five together will be worth more than anything NR or the GRB is gonna produce in the future. I think it would be a kick ass team.

I'm ridiculously into replacing Valory with Blades. It would solve a lot of issues:

1) Valory makes them appear too old
2) Blades can write (and already has chemistry with Schon)
3) Blades can add killer vocals
4) Blades is better than Valory on Bass

That's a pretty nice lineup with Jack Blades.

Neal is loyal to Ross and Ross is loyal to Neal. End of story.

[The_Noble_Cause]

My money's on this being their last tour.

And what's their other option? Neal can go back to doing studio work for Michael Bolton and Cain can release piano albums that nobody hears? You're off your rocker. Journey was reformed because the guys need the $$$. That hasn't changed.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Dude is playing cucumber festivals and coffee houses.

LOL.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The only way they go another 5 is if they go totally retro Journey, full on 80's pop anthem with their next release, because 5 years pretty much means one more album..

I predict another DVD. Vegas 2001 and Manilla both sold well, and featured new material. If Eclipse had been packaged with a hits dvd it would've sold like gangbusters. If the band needs to game the sytem to get ahead, so be it.

[slucero]

The only way they go another 5 is if they go totally retro Journey, full on 80's pop anthem with their next release, because 5 years pretty much means one more album..

I predict another DVD. Vegas 2001 and Manilla both sold well, and featured new material. If Eclipse had been packaged with a hits dvd it would've sold like gangbusters. If the band needs to game the sytem to get ahead, so be it.

Now your off your rocker... the reason Vegas 2001 and Manila sold well is because both DVD's were the band doing the greatest hits. Manila was the Arnel story.. neither of the DVD's had tunes in the Eclipse style.... because the average fan wants happy-hooky Journey..

Eclipse would have sold like hot cakes - in 1985 when they had an audience that would buy anything they put out... now its just another CD that only appeals to a very select, dedicated listener of the MR genre... even some hardcore Journey fans dislike it.. that's how "non-Journey" it is..

Even packaged with a DVD, reviews of Eclipse would still be what they are... mixed.. and the sales pop from the DVD would be short-lived... and likely not even "eclipse"the Revelation package... which had much more positive reviews all around.


Cain is a songwriter first and foremost.. its why he moved to Nashville FIRST, before moving to L.A... and it's why he moved BACK... his passion is songwriting, and as a writer he can do very well in Nashville.. he can likely make more money writing and producing than touring in Journey...

Schon is a guitar player... first and foremost... playing live and rocking is what he loves... he needs the road...


Cain doesn't....

[RedWingFan]

...and he doesn't need to be anywhere near a mic in a band with a singer of Arnel's caliber, or Deen's for that matter.

I think Kelly Keagy is better than either of them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Now your off your rocker... the reason Vegas 2001 and Manila sold well is because both DVD's were the band doing the greatest hits.

No shit. That's why I explicitly said Eclipse should've been packaged with another "hits" dvd, and the band should've "gamed the system" (again). Learn how to read.

Eclipse would have sold like hot cakes - in 1985 when they had an audience that would buy anything they put out... now its just another CD that only appeals to a very select, dedicated listener of the MR genre... even some hardcore Journey fans dislike it.. that's how "non-Journey" it is..

Andrew is one of the most hardcore Journey fans I know. He loves it. I think most fans, who own more than just the Greatest Hits, will dig it too. Like Frontiers, Eclipse has some commercial AOR on it, and takes a few chances as well. The term "non-Journey" is meaningless. The only fans that sling that phrase around are those who think every new album should be 12 tracks of DSB and AWYWI rip-offs.

...Cain can likely make more money writing and producing than touring in Journey...

Schon is a guitar player... first and foremost... playing live and rocking is what he loves... he needs the road...

Cain doesn't....

Riiiight. Cain is going to throw away a surefire meal ticket like Journey to risk it all on producing upstarts in a music landscape dominated by Biebers, Gagas, and glamorized thugs. Cain is a prolific writer and an ok producer, but he’s no David Foster, or some industry heavy-hitter like T-Bone Burnette, Desmond Child, or Rob Cavallo. The artists he writes for are not contemporary. They are dinosaur acts like himself. He needs Journey just like Schon.

[brywool]

The harder tones of Eclipse have alienated him from his new found fan base in the Philippines.

What makes you say this? His home fan base seems pretty freaking active and supportive. The album's been out, what 3 weeks (?) and it's the end of his career? I don't see that at all. I guarantee you when he goes back home, it'll be a big deal. The guy's a national hero to them at this point.

[brywool]

In 5 years:

Neal is 62
Jon is 66
Ross is 67
Deen is 51
Arnel is 49


I'm betting sooner than 5 years... and given this tour is 2 years, on Jon I think I'm is pretty comfortable with my post... I'd even add Ross to the "within 2 years" number...

I don't want to go Deb and insert Springsteen into every post I make, but listen...Journey compared to their contemporaries, has indeed aged well, yes? The band look pretty good for their age. having said that, the E Street Band is much older. Hell, Bruce is 61, and a fucking frontman! Clarence is 70! My point is age shouldn't really matter as a reason to hang em up for this band. I would think Cain, being a smart guy, and for the reasons already listed, wants to retire in order toenjoy the life his savings account will afford him, ie- travel, Madison's career, etc etc. Schon will play til he's in the ground, Valory is already the weakest bass player making money at this craft and goes through the motions nightly. To me, the blood pressure in Journey is Schon, Deen and Pineda. They could carry on the Journey name and band for another decade.

But what about Mr. Big Deano. WHAT ABOUT MR. BIG??

I agree. The road is tough. Playing music is great but man, Journey's tours are so packed together (3 shows, 2 shows 4 shows, etc.) that the physical activity really gets to you. I don't get why they don't just spread it out a bit and make it more comfortable for themselves. Do 2 shows a week or something. I guess it's just the dough. And especially if the album isn't selling like it should, they need to tour more to make the cash. With Cain, the dude is so creative musically, that I think he'd have to keep writing- unless he just said- screw it, I don't want that anymore. It's tough to tell if he enjoys touring. When they interview him, YES he does. To look at him, it's tough to tell. I always for get how old the guy is.

[Greg]

The only way they go another 5 is if they go totally retro Journey, full on 80's pop anthem with their next release, because 5 years pretty much means one more album..

I predict another DVD. Vegas 2001 and Manilla both sold well, and featured new material. If Eclipse had been packaged with a hits dvd it would've sold like gangbusters. If the band needs to game the sytem to get ahead, so be it.

As I had mentioned in another thread (but I think it got buried,) Journey would bring in big bucks if they had a live box set. Something for all Journey fans, past and present. I could picture a six disc set, three DVDs, three CDs of live footage. The first DVD/CD could have live tracks from the Perry era, possibly the Holy Grail Raised on Radio footage that Sony apparently has. The second DVD/CD would have Augeri era stuff, with Augeri era Journey material. Finally, the third DVD/CD package would have Pineda era live stuff with songs that Journey has written during his era, with a couple of new studio tracks tacked on for good measure.

I think something like this would sell pretty well. Heck, it could come in a really nice collector's box with a T-shirt or something like that. I believe every person here who has ever been a fan of the band would buy something like this.

[jrny84]

The only way they go another 5 is if they go totally retro Journey, full on 80's pop anthem with their next release, because 5 years pretty much means one more album..

I predict another DVD. Vegas 2001 and Manilla both sold well, and featured new material. If Eclipse had been packaged with a hits dvd it would've sold like gangbusters. If the band needs to game the sytem to get ahead, so be it.

As I had mentioned in another thread (but I think it got buried,) Journey would bring in big bucks if they had a live box set. Something for all Journey fans, past and present. I could picture a six disc set, three DVDs, three CDs of live footage. The first DVD/CD could have live tracks from the Perry era, possibly the Holy Grail Raised on Radio footage that Sony apparently has. The second DVD/CD would have Augeri era stuff, with Augeri era Journey material. Finally, the third DVD/CD package would have Pineda era live stuff with songs that Journey has written during his era, with a couple of new studio tracks tacked on for good measure.

I think something like this would sell pretty well. Heck, it could come in a really nice collector's box with a T-shirt or something like that. I believe every person here who has ever been a fan of the band would buy something like this.

Thats actually a really good idea. Something for all fans with that sort of package deal.

[Don]

The only way any type of Discography package can happen is if the band buys back the vault items and back catalog from Sony. Does anyone think that will happen? Does Journey have that kind of dough?

[S2M]

I wouldn't buy it....How about 3 separate boxsets. One for each singer. I'd buy the SP one, and maybe the SA one....but don't force people to buy something they don't want....I wouldn't touch the AP one.

Genesis put out different ones for each singer....one for Gabriel, and one for Collins. Although I think the Ray Wilson era was grouped in with Collins...but that was only ONE album.

[Don]

Unless Journey re-ups with Sony (and would Sony want them, seeing how specrapular Eclipse is selling) these box set ideas are pipe dreams.

Last year would have been the time for all of that. I'm sure that was a reason Perry was sniffing around the label's offices. The guy is a business man, he knew the iron was hot but unfortunately, there is no one in the company anymore who cares enough to invest in these kind of endeavors.

[Greg]

Aside from the legalities, I think this is something that a lot of people would purchase. Certainly this is something that would have made more sense last year, given the Glee version of Don't Stop Believing being so popular, but I think it would have done well for the band.

I don't know how well another Live DVD would sell. Maybe if it was a DVD of Journey/Night Ranger/Heart or something like that, it would probably sell pretty well.

[portland]

The only way any type of Discography package can happen is if the band buys back the vault items and back catalog from Sony. Does anyone think that will happen? Does Journey have that kind of dough?

No but someone does.

[Don]

The only way any type of Discography package can happen is if the band buys back the vault items and back catalog from Sony. Does anyone think that will happen? Does Journey have that kind of dough?

No but someone does.

I don't think so. The value of the catalog has increased quite a bit over the last two years.