Another Cain interview.

[Michigan Girl]

Yes but Christian Rock is a different kettle of fish

I think the comparison
could easily be made depending on what she was listening to and what her
view of christian music/rock is ...did she say rock?!?! I must check!!

Perhaps we can post an addendum so folks will know exactly how/what these songs
should sound to the listeners ear!! There are people here who've admitted
to listening several times before getting it ...yeah, she's wrong!!

[youkeepmewaiting]

Yes but Christian Rock is a different kettle of fish

I think the comparison
could easily be made depending on what she was listening to and what her
view of christian music/rock is ...did she say rock?!?! I must check!!

Perhaps we can post an addendum so folks will know exactly how/what these songs
should sound to the listeners ear!! There are people here who've admitted
to listening several times before getting it ...yeah, she's wrong!!

Haha well yes of course the meaning is up to the listener and if it gives them meaning in a Christian form then so be it,, but it still isn't a Christian album

[bluejeangirl76]

Arnel has this idea for ‘Arrival,’ he really wants to sing those songs. He feels that ‘Arrival’ just didn’t get the love that it should have gotten, maybe because it was CBS dropping the ball for us or something, I don’t know. That was an ill-fated album, but when Arnel listens to it, he’s like “I’d love to sing this stuff.”

So we’re looking at that – do we go back there and do that?

Um... no.

I certainly have all of the tracks, I could simply just go “bang” and put out a new CD and see how that goes too, so that’s another idea that we’re looking at.

[Michigan Girl]

Yes but Christian Rock is a different kettle of fish

I think the comparison
could easily be made depending on what she was listening to and what her
view of christian music/rock is ...did she say rock?!?! I must check!!

Perhaps we can post an addendum so folks will know exactly how/what these songs
should sound to the listeners ear!! There are people here who've admitted
to listening several times before getting it ...yeah, she's wrong!!

Haha well yes of course the meaning is up to the listener and if it gives them meaning in a Christian form then so be it,, but it still isn't a Christian album

Seriously?!?! That's what this dance was about?!?!
You made yourself right ... like a child, very cool!!

[yandtguy]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - or from a Hindu/Buddhist viewpoint specifically. Take the lyrics from "Chain of Love":

"Send the mantra to an endless night."
Mantras are Hindu. A mantra is a word or group of words that cause spiritual transformation.

"There's no beginning, there's no end"
This is a direct contradiction to the idea of the alpha and omega, not just God as Alpha and Omega, but of the whole biblical narrative of Genesis ("In the beginning...") to Revelation (. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.).

"There is no self, no fortress to defend"
In Genesis, Adam is named. His first job is to, in turn, name the animals. God makes covenants with individuals throughout the Bible and picks individuals for specific tasks. The line quoted is more in keeping with the Buddhist concept of renouncing self as the highest form of enlightenment.

"An endless circle beyond space and time."
Again, the biblical narrative calls for beginnings and endings, with one of God's names being Alpha and Omega. God does live outside of space and time, but reducing Him to a construct takes away His personality, His individuality. God is one...that is the ultimate expression of individuality.

There are other examples of the Hindu/Buddhist worldview, the most obvious being the song "Tantra." Tantra is a form of Hindu spirituality.

As to the "concept album" approach, it's weakened by the universalist approach. In "City Of Hope," the city of hope is where "miracles happen," but in "Anything Is Possible," "You don't need a miracle, believe that anything is possible." When all paths lead to God, you end up contradicting yourself along the way.

"To Whom It May Concern" seeks to tie it all together, but it leaves more a question mark than anything. I assume "Whom" is supposed to be your deity of choice. While the goal is to allow people to plug in whatever god they wish, as a Christian, I cannot relate to the song at all. Christ himself said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through me." I believe all people should have the right to worship the gods or goddesses of their choice. I believe that no person should be discriminated against for believing whatever religious beliefs they hold. But, I also believe that Christ is the only Way. I know that I am narrow-minded, but honestly, I expect Muslims and Hindus to believe the same thing. Why believe in anything, if you are not sure of what you believe? That's why a song like "To Whom It May Concern" falls flat.

As a big fan of Neal, I really like the music on Eclipse. I think Arnel sounds almost like Infinity-era Perry in places. I just can't get into the "spiritual" lyrics on the album. That only leaves me with a few songs that I truly like. "Someone" and "Resonate" being two. Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.

And, if you take the first 4:45 of "She's A Mystery" and put it on Departure, it would fit just fine. I like that a lot as the Gregg Rolie era is my favorite era.

Greg

[Michigan Girl]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.Greg

Good post, Greg ...main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that one may hear
an assortment of spiritual themes/connections!! We already know about the Hindu
vibe from the band!!

[yandtguy]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.Greg

Good post, Greg ...main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that one may hear
an assortment of spiritual themes/connections!! We already know about the Hindu
vibe from the band!!

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds. I really hope they get away from this next time though. Not being able to connect, on a lyrical level, to half the album severely limits my enjoyment of it. They can do what they want, but I will be downloading on a song-by-song basis in the future if they continue to write with religious themes that contradict my beliefs.

Greg

[conversationpc]

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds. I really hope they get away from this next time though. Not being able to connect, on a lyrical level, to half the album severely limits my enjoyment of it. They can do what they want, but I will be downloading on a song-by-song basis in the future if they continue to write with religious themes that contradict my beliefs.

Greg

I don't get this...There's a ton of music that I can't necessarily connect to on a lyrical level, that I still love. For instance, Rush has written about science fiction themes in the past. I can't really connect to that but the music is still enjoyable. Now, if Journey were writing about Satanic themes then, yeah, I probably wouldn't dig it.

[Ritchie]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - or from a Hindu/Buddhist viewpoint specifically. Take the lyrics from "Chain of Love":

"Send the mantra to an endless night."
Mantras are Hindu. A mantra is a word or group of words that cause spiritual transformation.

"There's no beginning, there's no end"
This is a direct contradiction to the idea of the alpha and omega, not just God as Alpha and Omega, but of the whole biblical narrative of Genesis ("In the beginning...") to Revelation (. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.).

"There is no self, no fortress to defend"
In Genesis, Adam is named. His first job is to, in turn, name the animals. God makes covenants with individuals throughout the Bible and picks individuals for specific tasks. The line quoted is more in keeping with the Buddhist concept of renouncing self as the highest form of enlightenment.

"An endless circle beyond space and time."
Again, the biblical narrative calls for beginnings and endings, with one of God's names being Alpha and Omega. God does live outside of space and time, but reducing Him to a construct takes away His personality, His individuality. God is one...that is the ultimate expression of individuality.

There are other examples of the Hindu/Buddhist worldview, the most obvious being the song "Tantra." Tantra is a form of Hindu spirituality.

As to the "concept album" approach, it's weakened by the universalist approach. In "City Of Hope," the city of hope is where "miracles happen," but in "Anything Is Possible," "You don't need a miracle, believe that anything is possible." When all paths lead to God, you end up contradicting yourself along the way.

"To Whom It May Concern" seeks to tie it all together, but it leaves more a question mark than anything. I assume "Whom" is supposed to be your deity of choice. While the goal is to allow people to plug in whatever god they wish, as a Christian, I cannot relate to the song at all. Christ himself said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through me." I believe all people should have the right to worship the gods or goddesses of their choice. I believe that no person should be discriminated against for believing whatever religious beliefs they hold. But, I also believe that Christ is the only Way. I know that I am narrow-minded, but honestly, I expect Muslims and Hindus to believe the same thing. Why believe in anything, if you are not sure of what you believe? That's why a song like "To Whom It May Concern" falls flat.

As a big fan of Neal, I really like the music on Eclipse. I think Arnel sounds almost like Infinity-era Perry in places. I just can't get into the "spiritual" lyrics on the album. That only leaves me with a few songs that I truly like. "Someone" and "Resonate" being two. Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.

And, if you take the first 4:45 of "She's A Mystery" and put it on Departure, it would fit just fine. I like that a lot as the Gregg Rolie era is my favorite era.

Greg

TWIMC has a simple message for a complicated issue.
The message is ..it doesn`t matter which race,principle or creed ..we all are searching for happiness ,peace and freedom.
The complicated issue is that peace is an utopia because mankind is just to divided to see "the big picture"...which is,we all would be better off without famine,poverty...etc.etc.

[Tito]

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds.

Thank god, Fleischman isn't in the band anymore...if you know what I mean.

[Tito]

Yeah, I'm not into this multicultural diversity shit in general.

[yandtguy]

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds. I really hope they get away from this next time though. Not being able to connect, on a lyrical level, to half the album severely limits my enjoyment of it. They can do what they want, but I will be downloading on a song-by-song basis in the future if they continue to write with religious themes that contradict my beliefs.

Greg

I don't get this...There's a ton of music that I can't necessarily connect to on a lyrical level, that I still love. For instance, Rush has written about science fiction themes in the past. I can't really connect to that but the music is still enjoyable. Now, if Journey were writing about Satanic themes then, yeah, I probably wouldn't dig it.

There's a big difference between genre and religious views though. Equating Rush writing about science fiction and Journey having lyrics from a Buddhist world view is apples and oranges. A better comparison for me would be the Rush songs that come from a humanist/atheist standpoint. I don't like those either, because I can't relate to the lyrics. I am a word guy. I teach English and am a writer. I also went to seminary, so theology is important to me as well.

Greg

[yandtguy]

Let me clarify, I know I am probably in the minority when it comes to picking and choosing what I listen to on the basis of the world view expressed in the lyrics. My screen name is yandguy, because I love Y&T. Even there, I don't listen to some of their songs, because they tweak me the wrong way. It's been that way since I was a teenager. I don't expect bands to censor themselves or cater to me. I just take what I like and leave the rest. I was just replying to the notion that this was a Christian-leaning album. It certainly isn't from an orthodox standpoint (note the lower case "o").

Greg

[Toph]

A couple of interesting things in this interview.
One thing that I already brought up. They got to make Eclipse because of the success of Revelation selling 800,000 copies (finally, John says the actual number instead of the Double Platinum him and Neal have been mentioning).
Also the bit about COH tearing up the charts, not sure where he got that from.

Yes, clears things up and, hopefully, will shut things up

Anytime you can get the chance to take a look your soul and how you relate to God’s universe, that’s heavy stuff. But it’s done in such a way that this is what we discovered about life in general.

Who said that a particular reviewer's wife didn't know what christian music was?!?!

Sprituality isnt Christianity

But, Christianity is spiritual ...the woman said that's what
it sounded like to her, she knew what she was talkin' bout!!

Yes but Christian Rock is a different kettle of fish

It definitely is. But it is an interesting strategy. Could any of ECLIPSE get airplay on Christian Rock Stations? Not sure. I do remember back in the early 90s when Styx hit it big with "Show Me The Way" that there were some discussions on whether that could get any airplay on Christian Rock stations. Recall, it was a spiritual song - almost a prayer. But it never was released to Christian Rock (or if it was, didn't get played). Dennis DeYoung also released a song "Hello God" to Christian Rock on a solo project a few years ago and it didn't go anywhere. I think Christian rock stations are not proned to put mainstream artists on their stations - you have to pay your dues as a Christian artist and the "cross-over" is a very rare phenomenon.

[Greg]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.Greg

Good post, Greg ...main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that one may hear
an assortment of spiritual themes/connections!! We already know about the Hindu
vibe from the band!!

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds. I really hope they get away from this next time though. Not being able to connect, on a lyrical level, to half the album severely limits my enjoyment of it. They can do what they want, but I will be downloading on a song-by-song basis in the future if they continue to write with religious themes that contradict my beliefs.

Greg

That is the biggest issue with me on this album as well. Most everyone can relate to being in love, losing someone, getting cheated on, etc... which has always been the basic themes to any Journey song. But, when they start dabbling into the religious realm of which is a direct contradiction to yours and my religious views, then it's hard for me to enjoy it. I'm sure a lot of people would feel the same way if Journey started writing Christian Contemporary music.

[conversationpc]

There's a big difference between genre and religious views though. Equating Rush writing about science fiction and Journey having lyrics from a Buddhist world view is apples and oranges. A better comparison for me would be the Rush songs that come from a humanist/atheist standpoint. I don't like those either, because I can't relate to the lyrics. I am a word guy. I teach English and am a writer. I also went to seminary, so theology is important to me as well.

Greg

Well, many Christians would have a problem with science fiction references because that genre of writing often has a lot of atheistic/humanistic elements. Just out of curiosity, give me a few examples of Rush songs with the humanist/atheist standpoint that you don't like or can't listen to. I've been a Christian for going on 22 years now and love most of Rush's music. The only one that comes to mind right away is "Faithless" from "Snakes & Arrows".

[conversationpc]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.Greg

Good post, Greg ...main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that one may hear
an assortment of spiritual themes/connections!! We already know about the Hindu
vibe from the band!!

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds. I really hope they get away from this next time though. Not being able to connect, on a lyrical level, to half the album severely limits my enjoyment of it. They can do what they want, but I will be downloading on a song-by-song basis in the future if they continue to write with religious themes that contradict my beliefs.

Greg

That is the biggest issue with me on this album as well. Most everyone can relate to being in love, losing someone, getting cheated on, etc... which has always been the basic themes to any Journey song. But, when they start dabbling into the religious realm of which is a direct contradiction to yours and my religious views, then it's hard for me to enjoy it. I'm sure a lot of people would feel the same way if Journey started writing Christian Contemporary music.

What gets me is that people who rail against any Journey song for having some supposed Christian message (I've heard this argument before) will still think a song promoting drunkenness, drug use, or promiscuity is OK even if they don't believe in living that kind of lifestyle.

[brywool]

I guess the "making his own legacy" project has been abandoned. All for the best probably. Since Arnel's a cover singer at heart, might as well let him continue to do what he does best.

I'd say it's a good thing that Arnel's interested in not ignoring the Augeri years. Good on him.

Totally. However, if Cain is talking a re-record, which it sure sounded like, then I'm not for that. But playing the songs live- great! Arnel shouldn't re-record that album if that's what's being talked about. Do the songs live-that'd be great.

[Greg]

The spiritual lyrics on Eclipse are more Universalist - Among the "spiritual" songs, "City Of Hope" is the one I feel most connected to as a Christian.Greg

Good post, Greg ...main point, as far as I'm concerned, is that one may hear
an assortment of spiritual themes/connections!! We already know about the Hindu
vibe from the band!!

That's because members of the band come from a variety of religious backgrounds. I really hope they get away from this next time though. Not being able to connect, on a lyrical level, to half the album severely limits my enjoyment of it. They can do what they want, but I will be downloading on a song-by-song basis in the future if they continue to write with religious themes that contradict my beliefs.

Greg

That is the biggest issue with me on this album as well. Most everyone can relate to being in love, losing someone, getting cheated on, etc... which has always been the basic themes to any Journey song. But, when they start dabbling into the religious realm of which is a direct contradiction to yours and my religious views, then it's hard for me to enjoy it. I'm sure a lot of people would feel the same way if Journey started writing Christian Contemporary music.

What gets me is that people who rail against any Journey song for having some supposed Christian message (I've heard this argument before) will still think a song promoting drunkenness, drug use, or promiscuity is OK even if they don't believe in living that kind of lifestyle.

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

[conversationpc]

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

I'm not talking about Journey specifically.

[Greg]

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

I'm not talking about Journey specifically.

Ok, so give an example.

[conversationpc]

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

I'm not talking about Journey specifically.

Ok, so give an example.

Actually, now that I think of it, I had this or a similar discussion with someone on this forum about the song "Any Way You Want It". That song is basically about having promiscuous sex "any way you want it". That person had a problem with "Christian" lyrics in one of their other songs, "Trial by Fire", if I remember correctly but had no problem with the other song promoting an immoral lifestyle.

[Michigan Girl]

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

I'm not talking about Journey specifically.

Ok, so give an example.

Actually, now that I think of it, I had this or a similar discussion with someone on this forum about the song "Any Way You Want It". That song is basically about having promiscuous sex "any way you want it". That person had a problem with "Christian" lyrics in one of their other songs, "Trial by Fire", if I remember correctly but had no problem with the other song promoting an immoral lifestyle.

Why couldn't they be married?!?!

[conversationpc]

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

I'm not talking about Journey specifically.

Ok, so give an example.

Actually, now that I think of it, I had this or a similar discussion with someone on this forum about the song "Any Way You Want It". That song is basically about having promiscuous sex "any way you want it". That person had a problem with "Christian" lyrics in one of their other songs, "Trial by Fire", if I remember correctly but had no problem with the other song promoting an immoral lifestyle.

Why couldn't they be married?!?!

What, promiscuous sex and Christianity?

[Michigan Girl]

Actually, now that I think of it, I had this or a similar discussion with someone on this forum about the song "Any Way You Want It". That song is basically about having promiscuous sex "any way you want it". That person had a problem with "Christian" lyrics in one of their other songs, "Trial by Fire", if I remember correctly but had no problem with the other song promoting an immoral lifestyle.

Why couldn't they be married?!?!

What, promiscuous sex and Christianity?

The sex ...it isn't necessarily promiscuous, just fun and accommodating ...
the way it should be!! Marriage musn't be dull!!
Isn't it also a Burger King commercial ?!?!

[steveo777]

You would have to give clear examples of a Journey song that promotes those things mentioned and also Journey songs that clearly promotes the Christian message for me to understand where you are coming from with this. I don't know of any Journey songs in which the band has clearly stated it was written in the Christian context like they have stated such in the Buddhist context with Eclipse.

I'm not talking about Journey specifically.

Ok, so give an example.

Actually, now that I think of it, I had this or a similar discussion with someone on this forum about the song "Any Way You Want It". That song is basically about having promiscuous sex "any way you want it". That person had a problem with "Christian" lyrics in one of their other songs, "Trial by Fire", if I remember correctly but had no problem with the other song promoting an immoral lifestyle.

Why couldn't they be married?!?!

What, promiscuous sex and Christianity?

When I was in high school, we'd go visit the Catholic girls school to get some.

[conversationpc]

The sex ...it isn't necessarily promiscuous, just fun and accommodating ...
the way it should be!! Marriage musn't be dull!!
Isn't it also a Burger King commercial ?!?!

Dang, that and the creepy King character on those commercials have completely ruined BK for me.

[yandtguy]

There's a big difference between genre and religious views though. Equating Rush writing about science fiction and Journey having lyrics from a Buddhist world view is apples and oranges. A better comparison for me would be the Rush songs that come from a humanist/atheist standpoint. I don't like those either, because I can't relate to the lyrics. I am a word guy. I teach English and am a writer. I also went to seminary, so theology is important to me as well.

Greg

Well, many Christians would have a problem with science fiction references because that genre of writing often has a lot of atheistic/humanistic elements. Just out of curiosity, give me a few examples of Rush songs with the humanist/atheist standpoint that you don't like or can't listen to. I've been a Christian for going on 22 years now and love most of Rush's music. The only one that comes to mind right away is "Faithless" from "Snakes & Arrows".

I'll give you two songs that aren't in the least bit obscure. In fact, they are among the band's most popular:

From "Ghost of a Chance":
I don't believe in destiny
Or the guiding hand of fate
I don't believe in forever
Or love as a mystical state
I don't believe in the stars or the planets
Or angels watching from above
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love
And make it last...

"Tom Sawyer":
No, his mind is not for rent
To any god or government.
Always hopeful, yet discontent,
He knows changes aren't permanent,
But change is.

Greg

[Greg]

Why couldn't they be married?!?!

I was kind of thinking the same thing. The song itself doesn't actually state that you should go out and have sex with someone you're not married to.

[conversationpc]

I'll give you two songs that aren't in the least bit obscure. In fact, they are among the band's most popular:

From "Ghost of a Chance":
I don't believe in destiny
Or the guiding hand of fate
I don't believe in forever
Or love as a mystical state
I don't believe in the stars or the planets
Or angels watching from above
But I believe there's a ghost of a chance we can find someone to love
And make it last...

"Tom Sawyer":
No, his mind is not for rent
To any god or government.
Always hopeful, yet discontent,
He knows changes aren't permanent,
But change is.

Greg

I don't think "Ghost of a Chance" is all that popular even amongst Rush fans. That being said, I don't listen to the song because I don't think it's all that good anyway, not to mention that I don't agree with the lyrical content.

As for "Tom Sawyer", I don't interpret it as being anti-Christian at all. The lyrics also mention government, yet I don't think anyone would say it's an anti-government song, just that he considers himself to be a free thinker, which I think Christians could also claim since God doesn't turn us into automatons.