Eclipse Billboard - Flop

[steveo777]

I really believe that Eclipse was the band's last hurrah at retail. The stars aligned for Revelation and amazingly, the momentum of DSB kept Journey's name out there continuously, even with the band out of service for a year.

And Eclipsed flopped anyway.

Time now to just tour, tour, tour until the ride comes to an end.

I'm not really interested in another Revelation type album. If Eclipse is the last Journey record I buy, I can say it was definitely a good note to go out on. A much better swan song than Revelation.

Yeah, they already made the come back and all in all, it went pretty damn good for a classic rock band. Now, we should just enjoy the next couple years of touring and beyond that not try and prolong it to where the band's sound becomes a joke like 3 Dog Night, as an example. All good things must eventually come to an end. Good tracks can last a lifetime. I feel that I now have a complete, good catalog of one of my favorite bands. I could leave it at that.

[Tito]

I really believe that Eclipse was the band's last hurrah at retail. The stars aligned for Revelation and amazingly, the momentum of DSB kept Journey's name out there continuously, even with the band out of service for a year.

I think it's safe to say, the fucked up taking last year off. They should've scaled back the 2009 tour and recorded Eclipse then and toured on it in 2010. One year too late.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I really believe that Eclipse was the band's last hurrah at retail.

I've been hearing this since Arrival flopped. If Schon wants to do new music, it will get distributed- even if only thru Frontiers. Eclipse may be the end of the Walmart deal tho.

[The_Noble_Cause]

yup.. the in thing is to write great fucking songs, that people will actually want to listen to... like the new NR album has


For Journey's next "release"... I say JC, NS and Jack Blades get a 24 pack and some gear and bang out some great songs... Get Bazilian in there too... TBAA is a great song...


"Higher Place"..................Jack Blades, Neal Schon 5:10
"All the Way"....................Schon, Jonathan Cain, Michael Rhodes, Steve Augeri 3:35
"Signs of Life"...................Schon, J. Cain, Elizabeth Cain 4:54
"All the Things" ................Schon, Cain, Andre Pessis 4:24
"Loved By You".................Cain, Tammy Hyler, Tribble 4:03
"Livin' to Do".....................Schon, Matt Schon, Cain, Tribble 6:25
"World Gone Wild".............Blades, Schon, Cain 6:00
"I Got a Reason"...............Blades, Schon, Cain 4:20
"With Your Love"...............Schon, J. Cain, E. Cain 4:25
"Lifetime of Dreams"..........Schon, Cain, Tribble 5:29
"Live and Breathe"............Schon, Cain, Augeri 5:15
"Nothin' Comes Close".......Schon, Cain, Augeri 5:41
"To Be Alive Again"...........Cain, Augeri, Tribble, Eric Bazilian 4:22
"Kiss Me Softly"................Blades, Schon, Augeri 4:48
"We Will Meet Again"........Schon, Augeri, Tribble 5:06

As great as those songs are, Arrival didn't set the top 40 chart on fire. So I fail to see ur point.

[slucero]

yup.. the in thing is to write great fucking songs, that people will actually want to listen to... like the new NR album has


For Journey's next "release"... I say JC, NS and Jack Blades get a 24 pack and some gear and bang out some great songs... Get Bazilian in there too... TBAA is a great song...


"Higher Place"..................Jack Blades, Neal Schon 5:10
"All the Way"....................Schon, Jonathan Cain, Michael Rhodes, Steve Augeri 3:35
"Signs of Life"...................Schon, J. Cain, Elizabeth Cain 4:54
"All the Things" ................Schon, Cain, Andre Pessis 4:24
"Loved By You".................Cain, Tammy Hyler, Tribble 4:03
"Livin' to Do".....................Schon, Matt Schon, Cain, Tribble 6:25
"World Gone Wild".............Blades, Schon, Cain 6:00
"I Got a Reason"...............Blades, Schon, Cain 4:20
"With Your Love"...............Schon, J. Cain, E. Cain 4:25
"Lifetime of Dreams"..........Schon, Cain, Tribble 5:29
"Live and Breathe"............Schon, Cain, Augeri 5:15
"Nothin' Comes Close".......Schon, Cain, Augeri 5:41
"To Be Alive Again"...........Cain, Augeri, Tribble, Eric Bazilian 4:22
"Kiss Me Softly"................Blades, Schon, Augeri 4:48
"We Will Meet Again"........Schon, Augeri, Tribble 5:06

As great as those songs are, Arrival didn't set the top 40 chart on fire. So I fail to see ur point.

my point was writing great songs... I said nothing about charting...

If you are going to use charting as a litmus test for great songs then your gonna have to admit Eclipse is worse than Arrival when it is DOA out of the gate...

[The_Noble_Cause]

my point was writing great songs... I said nothing about charting...

Your post came immediately in response to Don's post about lackluster sales. If you didn't mean to suggest that "good songs = strong sales", then I stand corrected. But I have no idea what your point is.

If you are going to use charting as a litmus test for great songs then your gonna have to admit Eclipse is worse than Arrival when it is DOA out of the gate...

Unlike Arrival, Eclipse actually charted in the top 20. The first original Journey album to do so since TBF. Try again.

[conversationpc]

Unlike Arrival, Eclipse actually charted in the top 20. The first original Journey album to do so since TBF. Try again.

Unless I'm missing something, didn't "Revelation" chart in the top 5?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Unlike Arrival, Eclipse actually charted in the top 20. The first original Journey album to do so since TBF. Try again.

Unless I'm missing something, didn't "Revalation" chart in the top 5?

That was packaged with the hits. Eclipse is all original material.

[Greg]

As far as charting goes, I think one must also look at the album sales of other competing artists on the chart, as well as how long the particular album stayed on the charts. Other than Lady Gaga and maybe Adele, The rest of the album sales of other artists seemed pretty poor to me.

[slucero]

my point was writing great songs... I said nothing about charting...

Your post came immediately in response to Don's post about lackluster sales. If you didn't mean to suggest that "good songs = strong sales", then I stand corrected. But I have no idea what your point is. [/quote]

My point is that Eclipse is sorely lacking in memorable songs... Eclipse while sonically strong, is not a commercial album, especially from a songwriting standpoint. And it's gonna be pretty impossible for Journey to transition from a commercial rock band who's strong point is songwriting to a band who's strong point is its guitar player... as good as Schon is... the majority of Journey fans don't care about that.. they want songs they can sing too.. remember... etc... and Eclipse just isn't going to be that.

When I made the post about Blades writing with Cain and Schon... it was in reference to that point.

Unlike Arrival, Eclipse actually charted in the top 20. The first original Journey album to do so since TBF. Try again.

Arrival was released in 2001. The retail landscape is a bit different now....

And yet Arrival has better songs... and sold nearly 400K...

Eclipse charts higher... and struggles to sell 30k




right.

[NoMoreTails]

The next album could potentially be awsome and also be Cain's "told ya so" album. They'll get it right eventually....don't stop believin'

Cain's gonna take it all country/crossover. There might be gold in them thar hills.

The next album.
Cain said they got to do Eclipse because of Revelation selling 800,000 copies. These are loss leader items, designed to attract shoppers into the store in the hopes that they'll buy enough other stuff to offset the low price of the CD.If people aren't coming in to buy your product, that defeats the whole purpose.
I wouldn't expect another retailer financed CD from Journey for a long time, if ever again. Eclipse flopping along with Def Leppard's abysmal sales seem to be hammering the point home that these bargain priced Wal-Mart exclusives for 80s bands aren't necessarily the 'in' thing any more.

If Walmart is hoping these cds will attract customers, they should be promoting them a bit.

[Greg]

The next album could potentially be awsome and also be Cain's "told ya so" album. They'll get it right eventually....don't stop believin'

Cain's gonna take it all country/crossover. There might be gold in them thar hills.

The next album.
Cain said they got to do Eclipse because of Revelation selling 800,000 copies. These are loss leader items, designed to attract shoppers into the store in the hopes that they'll buy enough other stuff to offset the low price of the CD.If people aren't coming in to buy your product, that defeats the whole purpose.
I wouldn't expect another retailer financed CD from Journey for a long time, if ever again. Eclipse flopping along with Def Leppard's abysmal sales seem to be hammering the point home that these bargain priced Wal-Mart exclusives for 80s bands aren't necessarily the 'in' thing any more.

If Walmart is hoping these cds will attract customers, they should be promoting them a bit.

It's not Walmart's place to promote them. That's left up to the band's management.

[Greg]

Arrival was released in 2001. The retail landscape is a bit different now....

And yet Arrival has better songs... and sold nearly 400K...

Eclipse charts higher... and struggles to sell 30k

Exactly! That's why it's kind of dumb to cling so tightly to chart position when honestly true success is measured in albums sold. Arrival blows Eclipse away in this respect.

[The_Noble_Cause]

My point is that Eclipse is sorely lacking in memorable songs... Eclipse while sonically strong, is not a commercial album, especially from a songwriting standpoint.

I think songs like "Someone", "Anything Is Possible", and "Ritual" are as commercial and catchy as anything the band has done. You got three tailor-made radio singles right there, and then an album of deeper cuts. As it should be.

And it's gonna be pretty impossible for Journey to transition from a commercial rock band who's strong point is songwriting to a band who's strong point is its guitar player... as good as Schon is...

The material is still vocally-driven. Only "Edge of the Moment" sounds like a Schon-centric tune shoehorned into a Journey album. And even then, it’s a great track. What a riff!

...the majority of Journey fans don't care about that.. they want songs they can sing too.. remember... etc... and Eclipse just isn't going to be that.

Then why didn't the majority of fans turn out to support the Blades-penned Arrival? Where were they?

...Arrival was released in 2001. The retail landscape is a bit different now....

Making Eclipse’s debut all the more impressive, especially given zero PR.

And yet Arrival has better songs... and sold nearly 400K...

It didn’t sell 400k in its first month of release. To date, “Higher Place” remains a favorite to the diehard fanbase only. “Arrival” should not be the gold standard for success. It flopped. After its release, Cain swore off full length albums and said the band may do EPs from here on out. Being that you are so prone to making predictions, here’s one of mine: in a year’s time, the band will be back in the studio.

[Monker]

Unlike Arrival, Eclipse actually charted in the top 20. The first original Journey album to do so since TBF. Try again.

Arrival is going to end up selling maybe twice as many CD's as Eclipse, regardless of where either album charted.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Arrival is going to end up selling maybe twice as many CD's as Eclipse, regardless of where either album charted.

Irrelevant. That's like saying that Ishtar broke even on VHS and DVD rentals. Perception is reality. Failing to debut in the top 50 is a flop. Deal with it.

[Don]

I really believe that Eclipse was the band's last hurrah at retail.

I've been hearing this since Arrival flopped. If Schon wants to do new music, it will get distributed- even if only thru Frontiers. Eclipse may be the end of the Walmart deal tho.

I should have been more specific and defined retail as a big box distributor. You're right of course. There will always be avenues to get the music out there, Frontiers, iTunes, Amazon. But the promo just wont be there, not that it was with Eclipse anyway.

And as has been said here many times already, it has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Eclipse is a great effort both creatively and sonically.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I really believe that Eclipse was the band's last hurrah at retail.

I've been hearing this since Arrival flopped. If Schon wants to do new music, it will get distributed- even if only thru Frontiers. Eclipse may be the end of the Walmart deal tho.

I should have been more specific and defined retail as a big box distributor. You're right of course. There will always be avenues to get the music out there, Frontiers, iTunes, Amazon. But the promo just wont be there, not that it was with Eclipse anyway.

True.

[Monker]

Arrival is going to end up selling maybe twice as many CD's as Eclipse, regardless of where either album charted.

Irrelevant. That's like saying that Ishtar broke even on VHS and DVD rentals. Perception is reality. Failing to debut in the top 50 is a flop. Deal with it.

No...it's like saying Ishtar sold 100,000 tickets and Three Amigos sold 50,000 but it was a top 10 movie so it was less of a flop.

The bottom line is more people own and have heard Arrival and I think that's a good thing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

No...it's like saying Ishtar sold 100,000 tickets and Three Amigos sold 50,000 but it was a top 10 movie so it was less of a flop.

The bottom line is more people own and have heard Arrival and I think that's a good thing.

Arrival has been out for over ten years, dumbfuck.

[Monker]

I really believe that Eclipse was the band's last hurrah at retail.

I've been hearing this since Arrival flopped. If Schon wants to do new music, it will get distributed- even if only thru Frontiers. Eclipse may be the end of the Walmart deal tho.

I should have been more specific and defined retail as a big box distributor. You're right of course. There will always be avenues to get the music out there, Frontiers, iTunes, Amazon. But the promo just wont be there, not that it was with Eclipse anyway.

And as has been said here many times already, it has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Eclipse is a great effort both creatively and sonically.

It may not be 'quality' of the product. But, it does have to do with the type of product. Journey tried their version of "new" Coke...for something like the third time...and it is NOT what people want after being told repeatedly they were returning to the old sound.

It doesn't matter anyway...I agree that this is probably Journey's last studio album. This sounds like a do or die album...and it died, very quickly.

[Monker]

No...it's like saying Ishtar sold 100,000 tickets and Three Amigos sold 50,000 but it was a top 10 movie so it was less of a flop.

The bottom line is more people own and have heard Arrival and I think that's a good thing.

Arrival has been out for over ten years, dumbfuck.

And, a month after its release it was still selling 16,000 copies/week. Allen Craft was giving weekly updates on BT for a few months. It was not selling as poorly as Eclipse for at least six seeks.

[conversationpc]

...and it is NOT what people want after being told repeatedly they were returning to the old sound.

Did they say they were returning to the old sound for "Eclipse"? I don't remember them stating that. Regardless, they returned to it with "Revelation" and, if they want to do something different, it's up to them. They're not bound to do what the fans want. If that means they lose followers, so be it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And, a month after its release it was still selling 16,000 copies/week. Allen Craft was giving weekly updates on BT for a few months. It was not selling as poorly as Eclipse for at least six seeks.

Bullshit. I was around back then, ur a liar. This is the 2nd Arnel-lineup cd to chart in the top 20. For a band w/out it's most recognizable member, that is a big deal. I don't care what anyone says. Just a few years ago, the band couldn't even give away free Gens copies at shows.

[Monker]

And, a month after its release it was still selling 16,000 copies/week. Allen Craft was giving weekly updates on BT for a few months. It was not selling as poorly as Eclipse for at least six seeks.

Bullshit. I was around back then, ur a liar. This is the 2nd Arnel-lineup cd to chart in the top 20. For a band w/out it's most recognizable member, that is a big deal. I don't care what anyone says. Just a few years ago, the band couldn't even give away free Gens copies at shows.

No I'm not lying. You just don't want to believe it.

Eclipse is charting higher with lower numbers because fewer albums are being sold by EVERYBODY. That's just the way it is - get over it. In today's world, Arrival would have debuted around the top 5 (40,000 - 50,000) and stuck around the top 20 for weeks (selling around 20,000).

If somebody has the real Arrival numbers for the first two months - post them.

[Monker]

...and it is NOT what people want after being told repeatedly they were returning to the old sound.

Did they say they were returning to the old sound for "Eclipse"? I don't remember them stating that. Regardless, they returned to it with "Revelation" and, if they want to do something different, it's up to them. They're not bound to do what the fans want. If that means they lose followers, so be it.

Absolutely...I completely agree...

And, the "so be it" happened.

[conversationpc]

...and it is NOT what people want after being told repeatedly they were returning to the old sound.

Did they say they were returning to the old sound for "Eclipse"? I don't remember them stating that. Regardless, they returned to it with "Revelation" and, if they want to do something different, it's up to them. They're not bound to do what the fans want. If that means they lose followers, so be it.

Absolutely...I completely agree...

And, the "so be it" happened.

Has the tour been canceled? What has the attendance been like so far, o mighty Kreskin.

[The_Noble_Cause]

No I'm not lying. You just don't want to believe it.

Eclipse is charting higher with lower numbers because fewer albums are being sold by EVERYBODY. That's just the way it is - get over it. In today's world, Arrival would have debuted around the top 5 (40,000 - 50,000) and stuck around the top 20 for weeks (selling around 20,000).

If somebody has the real Arrival numbers for the first two months - post them.

Today is 2011, not 2001. I have no idea what you people are defending. You bring up Arrival's songs and its sales numbers as if it was Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club or something. Very few people knew about the Arrival lineup and even less cared. The band has finally delivered a strong rock album, and you guys want to return to the mythical glory days of obscurity, lipping, suckass ballads, and free county fairs.

[Eric]

And, a month after its release it was still selling 16,000 copies/week. Allen Craft was giving weekly updates on BT for a few months. It was not selling as poorly as Eclipse for at least six seeks.

Bullshit. I was around back then, ur a liar. This is the 2nd Arnel-lineup cd to chart in the top 20. For a band w/out it's most recognizable member, that is a big deal. I don't care what anyone says. Just a few years ago, the band couldn't even give away free Gens copies at shows.

No I'm not lying. You just don't want to believe it.

Eclipse is charting higher with lower numbers because fewer albums are being sold by EVERYBODY. That's just the way it is - get over it. In today's world, Arrival would have debuted around the top 5 (40,000 - 50,000) and stuck around the top 20 for weeks (selling around 20,000).

If somebody has the real Arrival numbers for the first two months - post them.

You're assuming Arrival would have sold the same number of units now as it did in 2001, when as you just stated there are fewer albums being sold overall. It debuted at #56 and Eclipse at #13. That is the only valid comparison.

[Tito]

Regardless, if there is another album, what type of album, and how it is released will be irrelevant as it will be a Masterpiece and 100% or near that per Melodic Rock.