Journey Entourage

[kgdjpubs]

There was no risk taken with ROR. None. It was either going to (relatively speaking) flop (which it did) or it was going to be a huge success and be the transitional tool for Perry's solo career. He took over every aspect of the album to drive his agenda, and he put himself in a win/win situation. If it flops he can bury the band (and did). If it's a big success and sells 10 million, he can attempt to take all of the fans of that new (dated and shitty) sound with him. Personally, I think he got the result he desired most. But he had his bet hedged, in the event that it did sell big. But there was nothing risky or innovative about that album. Drum machines, dated grooves and yesteryear's R&B vocals weren't all that impressive. And it showed, factually, as people flocked in droves to Def Leppard and Bon Jovi and bought their albums at almost a 4-1 ratio. Bon Jovi and Def Leppard went forward with their sound and Steve Cooke took Journey backwards about 25 years. And the numbers say as much.

I'm going to modify that slightly. As you said, ROR was a win-win situation for Perry. It WAS a risk for Journey, as is every time a band changes its sound. It was certainly a risk for the label, who for sure would have been happier with a continuation of the Escape/Frontiers sound. For the general listener, a rock/pop combo would have been more profitable than the Motown/R&B/pop combo that ROR turned out to be. More than anything, they alienated the rock fans and failed to find the Motown/R&B fanbase that would be needed for a hit record. That was most certainly a known risk in releasing that album.


See if you can find a pattern here...

Bon Jovi Slippery When Wet --> rock album with pop tunes --> major success
Def Leppard Hysteria --> rock album with pop tunes --> major success
Journey ROR --> Motown/R&B/Pop/Journey combo with some pop tunes --> middle-of-the-road sales for a very popular band


Eclipse is the polar opposite. Journey released a hard rock album at the expense of alienating the pop fanbase.

[Art Vandelay]

For me, I wouldn't say horrid because I liked ROR (and I understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea)...but everything else you said was spot on!

I don't hate ROR either, it's just musically boring. Perry's creative decisions during that time reflect a disregard for any of the instruments beyond his voice; the result was that his singing was spectacular, but the rest of the band (and by that I mean the two living members and whatever machine/android/C-3P0 piece of shit they had covering the other instruments rather than Ross and Smith) was restrained.

It's why I prefer TBF to ROR.

They had real instruments on ROR. That's the misperception about that album. The bass and drum parts were conceived on machines, but they were actually played live. Think of it as following a recipe step-by-step, instead of adding a little of this and a little of that to your liking. Not saying this was a better method, but they were indeed real instruments played and recorded.

And I totally prefer TBF to ROR.

[Rick]

For me, I wouldn't say horrid because I liked ROR (and I understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea)...but everything else you said was spot on!

I don't hate ROR either, it's just musically boring. Perry's creative decisions during that time reflect a disregard for any of the instruments beyond his voice; the result was that his singing was spectacular, but the rest of the band (and by that I mean the two living members and whatever machine/android/C-3P0 piece of shit they had covering the other instruments rather than Ross and Smith) was restrained.

It's why I prefer TBF to ROR.

They had real instruments on ROR. That's the misperception about that album. The bass and drum parts were conceived on machines, but they were actually played live. Think of it as following a recipe step-by-step, instead of adding a little of this and a little of that to your liking. Not saying this was a better method, but they were indeed real instruments played and recorded.

And I totally prefer TBF to ROR.

Yep, the great Larry Londin. Rest his soul. That dude's resume is pretty incredible. Elvis being one of the people he played for/with.

[Gideon]

They had real instruments on ROR. That's the misperception about that album. The bass and drum parts were conceived on machines, but they were actually played live. Think of it as following a recipe step-by-step, instead of adding a little of this and a little of that to your liking. Not saying this was a better method, but they were indeed real instruments played and recorded.

You're shitting me.
The instruments (with the exception of Neal) was as lifeless as an abortion. Then again, so did the drums on "Only the Young"... Smith recorded those, right?

And I totally prefer TBF to ROR.

It was much more of an equal effort than ROR.

[Art Vandelay]

They had real instruments on ROR. That's the misperception about that album. The bass and drum parts were conceived on machines, but they were actually played live. Think of it as following a recipe step-by-step, instead of adding a little of this and a little of that to your liking. Not saying this was a better method, but they were indeed real instruments played and recorded.

You're shitting me.
The instruments (with the exception of Neal) was as lifeless as an abortion. Then again, so did the drums on "Only the Young"... Smith recorded those, right?

And I totally prefer TBF to ROR.

It was much more of an equal effort than ROR.

Yup, they used session musicians to basically follow a script. Larrie Londin (and Steve Smith on a couple of tracks) on drums, and Randy Jackson and Bob Glaub on bass. And for the record, Smith and Valory received revenues for the album and tour.

[Don]

They had real instruments on ROR. That's the misperception about that album. The bass and drum parts were conceived on machines, but they were actually played live. Think of it as following a recipe step-by-step, instead of adding a little of this and a little of that to your liking. Not saying this was a better method, but they were indeed real instruments played and recorded.

You're shitting me.
The instruments (with the exception of Neal) was as lifeless as an abortion. Then again, so did the drums on "Only the Young"... Smith recorded those, right?

And I totally prefer TBF to ROR.

It was much more of an equal effort than ROR.

Yup, they used session musicians to basically follow a script. Larrie Londin (and Steve Smith on a couple of tracks) on drums, and Randy Jackson and Bob Glaub on bass. And for the record, Smith and Valory received revenues for the album and tour.

Perry apparently kept a copy of that agreement and used it as a blueprint when it was his turn to leave the band in 1998.

[Michigan Girl]

There was no risk taken with ROR. None. It was either going to (relatively speaking) flop (which it did) or it was going to be a huge success and be the transitional tool for Perry's solo career. He took over every aspect of the album to drive his agenda, and he put himself in a win/win situation. If it flops he can bury the band (and did). If it's a big success and sells 10 million, he can attempt to take all of the fans of that new (dated and shitty) sound with him. Personally, I think he got the result he desired most. But he had his bet hedged, in the event that it did sell big. But there was nothing risky or innovative about that album. Drum machines, dated grooves and yesteryear's R&B vocals weren't all that impressive. And it showed, factually, as people flocked in droves to Def Leppard and Bon Jovi and bought their albums at almost a 4-1 ratio. Bon Jovi and Def Leppard went forward with their sound and Steve Cooke took Journey backwards about 25 years. And the numbers say as much.

It was a safe album, in my opinion, or so the band thought anyway.

The album might have been safe, but firing Ross and Smitty wasn't. That was riskier than hell. What if the whole thing woulda blown up in SP's face,
where would the band be today?

That and the music itself ...risky!!
Much more of a risk then than Eclipse is now ...as they ride off into the golden sunset!!

[Gideon]

Perry apparently kept a copy of that agreement and used it as a blueprint when it was his turn to leave the band in 1998.

His lawyer, clever bastard that he is, added a few new bits to it though.

[JRNYMAN]

Which member of the band currently has the largest team they need to drag around with them from gig to gig? Anyone know?

Really couldn't tell if your post was an actual question of if you were being sarcastic but since the topic of your post was abandoned a couple of pages back, I thought I'd reply.
Based on what I've seen (and I'm sure Rip will agree with me...) it's Arnel.

[JRNYMAN]

"I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew... "

"Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care. "

"This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here."

"The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers."

"I did that before and it's embarrassing to be sure. I am not doing this "I'm leaving bullshit, but I do want to be deleted because I already said, I cannot control the urge to post, "

"I am an asshole, so who cares?"

Wow... that is some serious self-deprecation! And OMG, the anger you have bottled up inside of you is really not healthy in the literal sense. I realize and appreciate the passion that exists within each of us when it comes to something we hold dear if not sentimental. And in the right doses, it's a good, even great thing. But when something that used to be associated with positive and happy feelings becomes a source of anger, resentment, and negativity, it's time to either re-evaluate why we loved that thing to begin with -OR- disassociate ourselves from it before the hate completely consumes us.

[YoungJRNY]

Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it

I think you describe yourself in a way of not even knowing it Deano with the hating thing. I think your time & the in's and out's with the personal tie to the band seriously cloud your mind of the music & hate and loathe everything the band 'Journey' puts out. It's becoming an automatic thing. I only say this because you ragged on Eclipse on my Facebook saying Andrews review is laughable because you've heard the CD and judging from it, Andrew's review was all smoke and mirrors. Here, you say you haven't listened to the CD, thus, not being able critique it. You are confusing my man! Seriously though, have you listened to Eclipse and if so, how much of it did you give a listen?

[RedWingFan]

I disagree. Arrival has more skippers and was trying to be something other than a natural progression for the band. I don't think TBF can hold either albums jock.

Im with you. Arrival is more like TBF prt 2 - especially in its original release (before Neal added some last minute rockers)

I never heard anything but the US release, but listening to it a few days ago I thought that the cd would have been exponentially better if they'd cut out "Loved By You" and "Livin' To Do". Those two songs seem to be an anchor right in the middle for me.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I never heard anything but the US release, but listening to it a few days ago I thought that the cd would have been exponentially better if they'd cut out "Loved By You" and "Livin' To Do". Those two songs seem to be an anchor right in the middle for me.

I like both songs, but ur right. They throw off the pacing. That's what I like about Rev and Eclipse. Very little filler (for me anyways). Like Escape and Frontiers, it's lean and focused.

[Blueskies]

Dang...This is getting good. Ding, ding, ding!

No, it's not. I asked Andrew to please delete my account here. This site sucks now. It's a fuckin Journey strokefest, and when that old geriatric fuck Step dad pops his liver spotted grill in here, running his piehole, not knowing anything he is speaking of, everyone assumes I am wrong because well, Les is Neal's daddy. Thanks a bunch Steve. Hey, you missed a spot, a little semen still on your upper lip. This is an embarrassing forum. Nothing gets spoken like it should anymore. And of course, McNeice looking the other way, says, "Hi Les!" Give me a break Andrew.

Four years ago, this place was honest and spoken as such. Now it's Andrew giving hand jobs in the way of ridiculously high reviews, that are fucking laughable. I am hugely disappointed in the way he recognizes and represents Journey here. Eclipse is a fine effort, but he makes it sound like it's the next Abbey Road. What's next, a 105/100 for Night Ranger? Maybe 120/100 for Mr Big? Point is all MR has become is a Fox News for certain bands. It's slanted and biased, with no real dissent allowed. If there is dissent, no matter how intelligent it is presented, it's met with "blah blah blah." The truthful discussion that once thrived here, is no longer. That's why traffic here is way down. I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew, but after what these guys did to you, how they treated you, and yet you still deep throat them at every turn. I am not suggesting to hate or keep hating, and forever holding their feet to the fire for faking the music for 2 years, but there are many other things that have transpired and frankly, I am shocked you still take it. Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care.

This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here. The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers.

Again, thanks a bunch Steveo.

You have to be kidding it's a strokefest. Go read most of the posts on here lately. It's all about how JSS should be on the album or in the band. It's how a lot of people are posting they don't like the album or the singer is wrong for it or Neal goes on too long and isn't melodic on the album or there's no backing singers or there's not one good song on it or it's not Journey on the album with the style songs and never will be anyway without Perry. Right, real rah-rah on here or that they haven't done a good album since Perry.. And then there are fans who love the album or support the band (me). Though, they're idiots for taking Resonate off the setlist, best song of the album, single-worthy. I consider it very balanced for many different views, definitely not a present-day Journey lovefest.

Go have another donut.

I was talking in particular with Andrew and his ridiculous review. His taste buds are in his ass (Many thanks Tito) And yes Jana, it is a strokefest of sorts. Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it..but think about it, how many people here have said it's their best cd since Escape. You have got to be joking? There are shit tons of awesome reviews and "this cd is awesome," etc etc. I'm fine with that, but it seems over the top. I also understand it's a new cd from their favourite band, so that's cool too.

How can you disagree with Andrew or anyone else on their opinion if you haven't even listened to the album???? The unbalanced bias is appearently yours and your responses here are what is over the top. Personally, I've been raving about this album because I sincerely do love it and think it's one of their best. In fact I think it's one of the best albums for its genre to come out in a long time.

[Onestepper]

Dang...This is getting good. Ding, ding, ding!

No, it's not. I asked Andrew to please delete my account here. This site sucks now. It's a fuckin Journey strokefest, and when that old geriatric fuck Step dad pops his liver spotted grill in here, running his piehole, not knowing anything he is speaking of, everyone assumes I am wrong because well, Les is Neal's daddy. Thanks a bunch Steve. Hey, you missed a spot, a little semen still on your upper lip. This is an embarrassing forum. Nothing gets spoken like it should anymore. And of course, McNeice looking the other way, says, "Hi Les!" Give me a break Andrew.

Four years ago, this place was honest and spoken as such. Now it's Andrew giving hand jobs in the way of ridiculously high reviews, that are fucking laughable. I am hugely disappointed in the way he recognizes and represents Journey here. Eclipse is a fine effort, but he makes it sound like it's the next Abbey Road. What's next, a 105/100 for Night Ranger? Maybe 120/100 for Mr Big? Point is all MR has become is a Fox News for certain bands. It's slanted and biased, with no real dissent allowed. If there is dissent, no matter how intelligent it is presented, it's met with "blah blah blah." The truthful discussion that once thrived here, is no longer. That's why traffic here is way down. I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew, but after what these guys did to you, how they treated you, and yet you still deep throat them at every turn. I am not suggesting to hate or keep hating, and forever holding their feet to the fire for faking the music for 2 years, but there are many other things that have transpired and frankly, I am shocked you still take it. Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care.

This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here. The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers.

Again, thanks a bunch Steveo.

You have to be kidding it's a strokefest. Go read most of the posts on here lately. It's all about how JSS should be on the album or in the band. It's how a lot of people are posting they don't like the album or the singer is wrong for it or Neal goes on too long and isn't melodic on the album or there's no backing singers or there's not one good song on it or it's not Journey on the album with the style songs and never will be anyway without Perry. Right, real rah-rah on here or that they haven't done a good album since Perry.. And then there are fans who love the album or support the band (me). Though, they're idiots for taking Resonate off the setlist, best song of the album, single-worthy. I consider it very balanced for many different views, definitely not a present-day Journey lovefest.

Go have another donut.

I was talking in particular with Andrew and his ridiculous review. His taste buds are in his ass (Many thanks Tito) And yes Jana, it is a strokefest of sorts. Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it..but think about it, how many people here have said it's their best cd since Escape. You have got to be joking? There are shit tons of awesome reviews and "this cd is awesome," etc etc. I'm fine with that, but it seems over the top. I also understand it's a new cd from their favourite band, so that's cool too.

How can you disagree with Andrew or anyone else on their opinion if you haven't even listened to the album???? The unbalanced bias is appearently yours and your responses here are what is over the top. Personally, I've been raving about this album because I sincerely do love it and think it's one of their best. In fact I think it's one of the best albums for its genre to come out in a long time.

Someone just posted that he claimed to have heard it in a Facebook post. So maybe he has. Or maybe he's a big fat liar. Who cares. The point of the post was that Andrews review was borderline ridiculous. I remember reading it and thinking that it was either wrecked with hyperbole, or at the very least setting the band up for failure because no band could reach those expectations. As it turns out the album is great for some, good for a number of others, and disappointing to another segment of fans. In other words, everyone has their own fucking opinion of it and no one opinion or review is any more valid than the next.

[Blueskies]

Dang...This is getting good. Ding, ding, ding!

No, it's not. I asked Andrew to please delete my account here. This site sucks now. It's a fuckin Journey strokefest, and when that old geriatric fuck Step dad pops his liver spotted grill in here, running his piehole, not knowing anything he is speaking of, everyone assumes I am wrong because well, Les is Neal's daddy. Thanks a bunch Steve. Hey, you missed a spot, a little semen still on your upper lip. This is an embarrassing forum. Nothing gets spoken like it should anymore. And of course, McNeice looking the other way, says, "Hi Les!" Give me a break Andrew.

Four years ago, this place was honest and spoken as such. Now it's Andrew giving hand jobs in the way of ridiculously high reviews, that are fucking laughable. I am hugely disappointed in the way he recognizes and represents Journey here. Eclipse is a fine effort, but he makes it sound like it's the next Abbey Road. What's next, a 105/100 for Night Ranger? Maybe 120/100 for Mr Big? Point is all MR has become is a Fox News for certain bands. It's slanted and biased, with no real dissent allowed. If there is dissent, no matter how intelligent it is presented, it's met with "blah blah blah." The truthful discussion that once thrived here, is no longer. That's why traffic here is way down. I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew, but after what these guys did to you, how they treated you, and yet you still deep throat them at every turn. I am not suggesting to hate or keep hating, and forever holding their feet to the fire for faking the music for 2 years, but there are many other things that have transpired and frankly, I am shocked you still take it. Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care.

This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here. The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers.

Again, thanks a bunch Steveo.

You have to be kidding it's a strokefest. Go read most of the posts on here lately. It's all about how JSS should be on the album or in the band. It's how a lot of people are posting they don't like the album or the singer is wrong for it or Neal goes on too long and isn't melodic on the album or there's no backing singers or there's not one good song on it or it's not Journey on the album with the style songs and never will be anyway without Perry. Right, real rah-rah on here or that they haven't done a good album since Perry.. And then there are fans who love the album or support the band (me). Though, they're idiots for taking Resonate off the setlist, best song of the album, single-worthy. I consider it very balanced for many different views, definitely not a present-day Journey lovefest.

Go have another donut.

I was talking in particular with Andrew and his ridiculous review. His taste buds are in his ass (Many thanks Tito) And yes Jana, it is a strokefest of sorts. Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it..but think about it, how many people here have said it's their best cd since Escape. You have got to be joking? There are shit tons of awesome reviews and "this cd is awesome," etc etc. I'm fine with that, but it seems over the top. I also understand it's a new cd from their favourite band, so that's cool too.

How can you disagree with Andrew or anyone else on their opinion if you haven't even listened to the album???? The unbalanced bias is appearently yours and your responses here are what is over the top. Personally, I've been raving about this album because I sincerely do love it and think it's one of their best. In fact I think it's one of the best albums for its genre to come out in a long time.

Someone just posted that he claimed to have heard it in a Facebook post. So maybe he has. Or maybe he's a big fat liar. Who cares. The point of the post was that Andrews review was borderline ridiculous. I remember reading it and thinking that it was either wrecked with hyperbole, or at the very least setting the band up for failure because no band could reach those expectations. As it turns out the album is great for some, good for a number of others, and disappointing to another segment of fans. In other words, everyone has their own fucking opinion of it and no one opinion or review is any more valid than the next.

You just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say his review is borderline ridiculous and on the other hand you say everyone has their own opinion and no one is any more valid than anothers. Which is it?

I agree that music is subjective and therefore his review can't be ridiculous because its his opinion and how he hears the album. How you put it is that everyone's opinion is valid only if they agree with yours. Saying that someone is ridiculous for loving this album is ridiculous.

[Onestepper]

Dang...This is getting good. Ding, ding, ding!

No, it's not. I asked Andrew to please delete my account here. This site sucks now. It's a fuckin Journey strokefest, and when that old geriatric fuck Step dad pops his liver spotted grill in here, running his piehole, not knowing anything he is speaking of, everyone assumes I am wrong because well, Les is Neal's daddy. Thanks a bunch Steve. Hey, you missed a spot, a little semen still on your upper lip. This is an embarrassing forum. Nothing gets spoken like it should anymore. And of course, McNeice looking the other way, says, "Hi Les!" Give me a break Andrew.

Four years ago, this place was honest and spoken as such. Now it's Andrew giving hand jobs in the way of ridiculously high reviews, that are fucking laughable. I am hugely disappointed in the way he recognizes and represents Journey here. Eclipse is a fine effort, but he makes it sound like it's the next Abbey Road. What's next, a 105/100 for Night Ranger? Maybe 120/100 for Mr Big? Point is all MR has become is a Fox News for certain bands. It's slanted and biased, with no real dissent allowed. If there is dissent, no matter how intelligent it is presented, it's met with "blah blah blah." The truthful discussion that once thrived here, is no longer. That's why traffic here is way down. I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew, but after what these guys did to you, how they treated you, and yet you still deep throat them at every turn. I am not suggesting to hate or keep hating, and forever holding their feet to the fire for faking the music for 2 years, but there are many other things that have transpired and frankly, I am shocked you still take it. Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care.

This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here. The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers.

Again, thanks a bunch Steveo.

You have to be kidding it's a strokefest. Go read most of the posts on here lately. It's all about how JSS should be on the album or in the band. It's how a lot of people are posting they don't like the album or the singer is wrong for it or Neal goes on too long and isn't melodic on the album or there's no backing singers or there's not one good song on it or it's not Journey on the album with the style songs and never will be anyway without Perry. Right, real rah-rah on here or that they haven't done a good album since Perry.. And then there are fans who love the album or support the band (me). Though, they're idiots for taking Resonate off the setlist, best song of the album, single-worthy. I consider it very balanced for many different views, definitely not a present-day Journey lovefest.

Go have another donut.

I was talking in particular with Andrew and his ridiculous review. His taste buds are in his ass (Many thanks Tito) And yes Jana, it is a strokefest of sorts. Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it..but think about it, how many people here have said it's their best cd since Escape. You have got to be joking? There are shit tons of awesome reviews and "this cd is awesome," etc etc. I'm fine with that, but it seems over the top. I also understand it's a new cd from their favourite band, so that's cool too.

How can you disagree with Andrew or anyone else on their opinion if you haven't even listened to the album???? The unbalanced bias is appearently yours and your responses here are what is over the top. Personally, I've been raving about this album because I sincerely do love it and think it's one of their best. In fact I think it's one of the best albums for its genre to come out in a long time.

Someone just posted that he claimed to have heard it in a Facebook post. So maybe he has. Or maybe he's a big fat liar. Who cares. The point of the post was that Andrews review was borderline ridiculous. I remember reading it and thinking that it was either wrecked with hyperbole, or at the very least setting the band up for failure because no band could reach those expectations. As it turns out the album is great for some, good for a number of others, and disappointing to another segment of fans. In other words, everyone has their own fucking opinion of it and no one opinion or review is any more valid than the next.

You just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say his review is borderline ridiculous and on the other hand you say everyone has their own opinion and no one is any more valid than anothers. Which is it?

I agree that music is subjective and therefore his review can't be ridiculous because its his opinion and how he hears the album. How you put it is that everyone's opinion is valid only if they agree with yours. Saying that someone is ridiculous for loving this album is ridiculous.

My point is that everyone reads Andrew's review like it's the gospel. Like his opinion matters any more than anyone else's. He's a fan and he was over the top with his praise. Good for him. But when the dust cleared there were more than a few that said the review came off as hype given what they got from the record in their own opinion. I think the review was ridiculous, that's not going to change. And again, getting back to the original point of the post, that's what the discussion was centering around. Wasn't really asking for you to agree or not to agree.

[Blueskies]

Dang...This is getting good. Ding, ding, ding!

No, it's not. I asked Andrew to please delete my account here. This site sucks now. It's a fuckin Journey strokefest, and when that old geriatric fuck Step dad pops his liver spotted grill in here, running his piehole, not knowing anything he is speaking of, everyone assumes I am wrong because well, Les is Neal's daddy. Thanks a bunch Steve. Hey, you missed a spot, a little semen still on your upper lip. This is an embarrassing forum. Nothing gets spoken like it should anymore. And of course, McNeice looking the other way, says, "Hi Les!" Give me a break Andrew.

Four years ago, this place was honest and spoken as such. Now it's Andrew giving hand jobs in the way of ridiculously high reviews, that are fucking laughable. I am hugely disappointed in the way he recognizes and represents Journey here. Eclipse is a fine effort, but he makes it sound like it's the next Abbey Road. What's next, a 105/100 for Night Ranger? Maybe 120/100 for Mr Big? Point is all MR has become is a Fox News for certain bands. It's slanted and biased, with no real dissent allowed. If there is dissent, no matter how intelligent it is presented, it's met with "blah blah blah." The truthful discussion that once thrived here, is no longer. That's why traffic here is way down. I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew, but after what these guys did to you, how they treated you, and yet you still deep throat them at every turn. I am not suggesting to hate or keep hating, and forever holding their feet to the fire for faking the music for 2 years, but there are many other things that have transpired and frankly, I am shocked you still take it. Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care.

This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here. The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers.

Again, thanks a bunch Steveo.

You have to be kidding it's a strokefest. Go read most of the posts on here lately. It's all about how JSS should be on the album or in the band. It's how a lot of people are posting they don't like the album or the singer is wrong for it or Neal goes on too long and isn't melodic on the album or there's no backing singers or there's not one good song on it or it's not Journey on the album with the style songs and never will be anyway without Perry. Right, real rah-rah on here or that they haven't done a good album since Perry.. And then there are fans who love the album or support the band (me). Though, they're idiots for taking Resonate off the setlist, best song of the album, single-worthy. I consider it very balanced for many different views, definitely not a present-day Journey lovefest.

Go have another donut.

I was talking in particular with Andrew and his ridiculous review. His taste buds are in his ass (Many thanks Tito) And yes Jana, it is a strokefest of sorts. Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it..but think about it, how many people here have said it's their best cd since Escape. You have got to be joking? There are shit tons of awesome reviews and "this cd is awesome," etc etc. I'm fine with that, but it seems over the top. I also understand it's a new cd from their favourite band, so that's cool too.

How can you disagree with Andrew or anyone else on their opinion if you haven't even listened to the album???? The unbalanced bias is appearently yours and your responses here are what is over the top. Personally, I've been raving about this album because I sincerely do love it and think it's one of their best. In fact I think it's one of the best albums for its genre to come out in a long time.

Someone just posted that he claimed to have heard it in a Facebook post. So maybe he has. Or maybe he's a big fat liar. Who cares. The point of the post was that Andrews review was borderline ridiculous. I remember reading it and thinking that it was either wrecked with hyperbole, or at the very least setting the band up for failure because no band could reach those expectations. As it turns out the album is great for some, good for a number of others, and disappointing to another segment of fans. In other words, everyone has their own fucking opinion of it and no one opinion or review is any more valid than the next.

You just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say his review is borderline ridiculous and on the other hand you say everyone has their own opinion and no one is any more valid than anothers. Which is it?

I agree that music is subjective and therefore his review can't be ridiculous because its his opinion and how he hears the album. How you put it is that everyone's opinion is valid only if they agree with yours. Saying that someone is ridiculous for loving this album is ridiculous.

My point is that everyone reads Andrew's review like it's the gospel. Like his opinion matters any more than anyone else's. He's a fan and he was over the top with his praise. Good for him. But when the dust cleared there were more than a few that said the review came off as hype given what they got from the record in their own opinion. I think the review was ridiculous, that's not going to change. And again, getting back to the original point of the post, that's what the discussion was centering around. Wasn't really asking for you to agree or not to agree.

Unlike you, I can't speak for everyone but personally can say that I don't take his reviews as gospel at all and haven't read many and didn't read his review of Eclipse until a few days ago...long after I purchased the CD and wrote my own review. After reading it I just happen to agree with him on this one.

If you don't want me to agree or disagree then maybe you shouldn't have responded to my post. Seem's you want to say what you think and want me to just listen.

[Onestepper]

Dang...This is getting good. Ding, ding, ding!

No, it's not. I asked Andrew to please delete my account here. This site sucks now. It's a fuckin Journey strokefest, and when that old geriatric fuck Step dad pops his liver spotted grill in here, running his piehole, not knowing anything he is speaking of, everyone assumes I am wrong because well, Les is Neal's daddy. Thanks a bunch Steve. Hey, you missed a spot, a little semen still on your upper lip. This is an embarrassing forum. Nothing gets spoken like it should anymore. And of course, McNeice looking the other way, says, "Hi Les!" Give me a break Andrew.

Four years ago, this place was honest and spoken as such. Now it's Andrew giving hand jobs in the way of ridiculously high reviews, that are fucking laughable. I am hugely disappointed in the way he recognizes and represents Journey here. Eclipse is a fine effort, but he makes it sound like it's the next Abbey Road. What's next, a 105/100 for Night Ranger? Maybe 120/100 for Mr Big? Point is all MR has become is a Fox News for certain bands. It's slanted and biased, with no real dissent allowed. If there is dissent, no matter how intelligent it is presented, it's met with "blah blah blah." The truthful discussion that once thrived here, is no longer. That's why traffic here is way down. I know you don't care about my opinion of you Andrew, but after what these guys did to you, how they treated you, and yet you still deep throat them at every turn. I am not suggesting to hate or keep hating, and forever holding their feet to the fire for faking the music for 2 years, but there are many other things that have transpired and frankly, I am shocked you still take it. Perhaps this should be taken to PM, but I don't care.

This place would be a lot better off without guys like me on here. The reason I want to be deleted is, I don't have the fuckin self discipline to not post especially after 2 12vers.

Again, thanks a bunch Steveo.

You have to be kidding it's a strokefest. Go read most of the posts on here lately. It's all about how JSS should be on the album or in the band. It's how a lot of people are posting they don't like the album or the singer is wrong for it or Neal goes on too long and isn't melodic on the album or there's no backing singers or there's not one good song on it or it's not Journey on the album with the style songs and never will be anyway without Perry. Right, real rah-rah on here or that they haven't done a good album since Perry.. And then there are fans who love the album or support the band (me). Though, they're idiots for taking Resonate off the setlist, best song of the album, single-worthy. I consider it very balanced for many different views, definitely not a present-day Journey lovefest.

Go have another donut.

I was talking in particular with Andrew and his ridiculous review. His taste buds are in his ass (Many thanks Tito) And yes Jana, it is a strokefest of sorts. Like I said, there are haters, just because they want to hate. I can't really critique the cd because I haven't heard it..but think about it, how many people here have said it's their best cd since Escape. You have got to be joking? There are shit tons of awesome reviews and "this cd is awesome," etc etc. I'm fine with that, but it seems over the top. I also understand it's a new cd from their favourite band, so that's cool too.

How can you disagree with Andrew or anyone else on their opinion if you haven't even listened to the album???? The unbalanced bias is appearently yours and your responses here are what is over the top. Personally, I've been raving about this album because I sincerely do love it and think it's one of their best. In fact I think it's one of the best albums for its genre to come out in a long time.

Someone just posted that he claimed to have heard it in a Facebook post. So maybe he has. Or maybe he's a big fat liar. Who cares. The point of the post was that Andrews review was borderline ridiculous. I remember reading it and thinking that it was either wrecked with hyperbole, or at the very least setting the band up for failure because no band could reach those expectations. As it turns out the album is great for some, good for a number of others, and disappointing to another segment of fans. In other words, everyone has their own fucking opinion of it and no one opinion or review is any more valid than the next.

You just contradicted yourself. On the one hand you say his review is borderline ridiculous and on the other hand you say everyone has their own opinion and no one is any more valid than anothers. Which is it?

I agree that music is subjective and therefore his review can't be ridiculous because its his opinion and how he hears the album. How you put it is that everyone's opinion is valid only if they agree with yours. Saying that someone is ridiculous for loving this album is ridiculous.

My point is that everyone reads Andrew's review like it's the gospel. Like his opinion matters any more than anyone else's. He's a fan and he was over the top with his praise. Good for him. But when the dust cleared there were more than a few that said the review came off as hype given what they got from the record in their own opinion. I think the review was ridiculous, that's not going to change. And again, getting back to the original point of the post, that's what the discussion was centering around. Wasn't really asking for you to agree or not to agree.

Unlike you, I can't speak for everyone but personally can say that I don't take his reviews as gospel at all and haven't read many and didn't read his review of Ecliose until a few days ago...long after I purchased the CD and wrote my own review. I just happen to agree with him on this one.

If you don't want me to agree or disagree then maybe you shouldn't have responded to my post. Seem's you want to say what you think and want me to just listen.

I think that's a great idea. Whatever works best for you.

[Blueskies]

Now thats a manly attitude! Women should be seen and not heard?

[Onestepper]

:lol: Now thats a manly attitude! Women should be seen and not heard?

Actually I'd say the same thing if you were a man. You are really over reacting, which I remember that's part of your MO so I don't expect that to change. Carry on with your victim mentality.

[Michigan Girl]

It did make me LMAO!!

oops ...I should've quoted, but it was soooo long!!

[Blueskies]

:lol: Now thats a manly attitude! Women should be seen and not heard?

Actually I'd say the same thing if you were a man. You are really over reacting, which I remember that's part of your MO so I don't expect that to change. Carry on with your victim mentality.

LOL! Now thats ridiculous. You are getting testy. Relax.

[yandtguy]

You have to be kidding me. ROR was not a risk. The singles, "Be Good to Yourself," "Girl Can't Help It," and "I'll Be Alright Without You" are not very far afield of previous singles. Sure, some of the album tracks had an 80's R&B vibe, but the singles were pop rock. "Be Good To Yourself" was the highest charting single, and it could have been on Escape alongside "Stone In Love" and "Keep On Running." "I'll Be Alright" is along the same lines as "Send Her My Love" and "After The Fall." They made sure they had the signature singles and took the album tracks in a different, more pop R&B vibe. That wasn't so weird for the band either. Escape was far more of a pop rock album than Frontiers which was almost metal on the album tracks. The only consistency the band has ever had between albums took place from Journey to Next and then Infinity to Departure. Escape to now has been a crap shoot when it comes to albums. You can group a few together, but there hasn't been a straight road. Eclipse is definitely in the Frontiers mold, while Arrival was in the Escape mold. Trial by Fire may be the one album that takes elements of each Perry-era album and mixes them together.

[Michigan Girl]

You have to be kidding me. ROR was not a risk. The singles, "Be Good to Yourself," "Girl Can't Help It," and "I'll Be Alright Without You" are not very far afield of previous singles. Sure, some of the album tracks had an 80's R&B vibe, but the singles were pop rock. "Be Good To Yourself" was the highest charting single, and it could have been on Escape alongside "Stone In Love" and "Keep On Running." "I'll Be Alright" is along the same lines as "Send Her My Love" and "After The Fall." They made sure they had the signature singles and took the album tracks in a different, more pop R&B vibe. That wasn't so weird for the band either. Escape was far more of a pop rock album than Frontiers which was almost metal on the album tracks. The only consistency the band has ever had between albums took place from Journey to Next and then Infinity to Departure. Escape to now has been a crap shoot when it comes to albums. You can group a few together, but there hasn't been a straight road. Eclipse is definitely in the Frontiers mold, while Arrival was in the Escape mold. Trial by Fire may be the one album that takes elements of each Perry-era album and mixes them together.

Yes!!

[Blueskies]

You have to be kidding me. ROR was not a risk. The singles, "Be Good to Yourself," "Girl Can't Help It," and "I'll Be Alright Without You" are not very far afield of previous singles. Sure, some of the album tracks had an 80's R&B vibe, but the singles were pop rock. "Be Good To Yourself" was the highest charting single, and it could have been on Escape alongside "Stone In Love" and "Keep On Running." "I'll Be Alright" is along the same lines as "Send Her My Love" and "After The Fall." They made sure they had the signature singles and took the album tracks in a different, more pop R&B vibe. That wasn't so weird for the band either. Escape was far more of a pop rock album than Frontiers which was almost metal on the album tracks. The only consistency the band has ever had between albums took place from Journey to Next and then Infinity to Departure. Escape to now has been a crap shoot when it comes to albums. You can group a few together, but there hasn't been a straight road. Eclipse is definitely in the Frontiers mold, while Arrival was in the Escape mold. Trial by Fire may be the one album that takes elements of each Perry-era album and mixes them together.

Right on!

[conversationpc]

I never heard anything but the US release, but listening to it a few days ago I thought that the cd would have been exponentially better if they'd cut out "Loved By You" and "Livin' To Do". Those two songs seem to be an anchor right in the middle for me.

I like both songs, but ur right. They throw off the pacing. That's what I like about Rev and Eclipse. Very little filler (for me anyways). Like Escape and Frontiers, it's lean and focused.

"Livin' to Do" is the best song on "Arrival".

[JRNYMAN]

I never heard anything but the US release, but listening to it a few days ago I thought that the cd would have been exponentially better if they'd cut out "Loved By You" and "Livin' To Do". Those two songs seem to be an anchor right in the middle for me.

I like both songs, but ur right. They throw off the pacing. That's what I like about Rev and Eclipse. Very little filler (for me anyways). Like Escape and Frontiers, it's lean and focused.

"Livin' to Do" is the best song on "Arrival".

I dunno... as much as I really like it, there's just something about Live and Breathe that kicks ass. But, it all boils down to personal preference and opinion.

[RedWingFan]

I never heard anything but the US release, but listening to it a few days ago I thought that the cd would have been exponentially better if they'd cut out "Loved By You" and "Livin' To Do". Those two songs seem to be an anchor right in the middle for me.

I like both songs, but ur right. They throw off the pacing. That's what I like about Rev and Eclipse. Very little filler (for me anyways). Like Escape and Frontiers, it's lean and focused.

"Livin' to Do" is the best song on "Arrival".

This quote alone makes you a candidate to be featured on the A&E show "Intervention".

[conversationpc]

I never heard anything but the US release, but listening to it a few days ago I thought that the cd would have been exponentially better if they'd cut out "Loved By You" and "Livin' To Do". Those two songs seem to be an anchor right in the middle for me.

I like both songs, but ur right. They throw off the pacing. That's what I like about Rev and Eclipse. Very little filler (for me anyways). Like Escape and Frontiers, it's lean and focused.

"Livin' to Do" is the best song on "Arrival".

This quote alone makes you a candidate to be featured on the A&E show "Intervention".

You're a libtard.